Business RadioX ®

  • Home
  • Business RadioX ® Communities
    • Southeast
      • Alabama
        • Birmingham
      • Florida
        • Orlando
        • Pensacola
        • South Florida
        • Tampa
        • Tallahassee
      • Georgia
        • Atlanta
        • Cherokee
        • Forsyth
        • Greater Perimeter
        • Gwinnett
        • North Fulton
        • North Georgia
        • Northeast Georgia
        • Rome
        • Savannah
      • Louisiana
        • New Orleans
      • North Carolina
        • Charlotte
        • Raleigh
      • Tennessee
        • Chattanooga
        • Nashville
      • Virginia
        • Richmond
    • South Central
      • Arkansas
        • Northwest Arkansas
    • Midwest
      • Illinois
        • Chicago
      • Michigan
        • Detroit
      • Minnesota
        • Minneapolis St. Paul
      • Missouri
        • St. Louis
      • Ohio
        • Cleveland
        • Columbus
        • Dayton
    • Southwest
      • Arizona
        • Phoenix
        • Tucson
        • Valley
      • Texas
        • Austin
        • Dallas
        • Houston
    • West
      • California
        • Bay Area
        • LA
        • Pasadena
      • Colorado
        • Denver
      • Hawaii
        • Oahu
  • FAQs
  • About Us
    • Our Mission
    • Our Audience
    • Why It Works
    • What People Are Saying
    • BRX in the News
  • Resources
    • BRX Pro Tips
    • B2B Marketing: The 4Rs
    • High Velocity Selling Habits
    • Why Most B2B Media Strategies Fail
    • 9 Reasons To Sponsor A Business RadioX ® Show
  • Partner With Us
  • Veteran Business RadioX ®

Decision Vision Episode 150: Should I Pivot? – An Interview with Jocelyn Brady, Brain Coach

January 6, 2022 by John Ray

Jocelyn Brady
Decision Vision
Decision Vision Episode 150: Should I Pivot? - An Interview with Jocelyn Brady, Brain Coach
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

Jocelyn Brady

Decision Vision Episode 150:  Should I Pivot? – An Interview with Jocelyn Brady, Brain Coach

When Jocelyn Brady began to be bored and even resented the projects she was working on in her business, she recognized an itch she needed to investigate. Then came the pandemic, which caused its own disruption, and Jocelyn pivoted away from writing and content creation to working as a Brain Coach. In this conversation with host Mike Blake, Jocelyn describes what it is like to have a successful company and yet be unfulfilled, the impact of Covid on her trajectory, her mixed feelings about the word “coach,” and much more. Decision Vision is presented by Brady Ware & Company.

Jocelyn Brady, Brain Coach, Speaker & Chief Play Scientist

Jocelyn Brady, Brain Coach, Speaker & Chief Play Scientist

Jocelyn Brady is a writer, speaker, and professional brain jostler who thrives at the intersection of comedy, storytelling and unraveling the mysteries of the human brain. When she’s not being the Bill Nye of the brain (as the creator and host of her series Tiny Tips, the Internet’s favorite way to Brain), Jocelyn applies her certified Brain Coaching chops to help creative visionaries tap their brains’ greatest potential.

In her past life—as an award-winning copywriter, Creative Director, and agency CEO—Jocelyn led narrative strategy and international storytelling training for some of the world’s biggest brands. She also produced and co-hosted Party Time, a standup comedy and storytelling show featuring talent who went on to write or perform for Conan, Colbert, and Comedy Central. All while managing to keep her two cats and houseplants alive.

Jocelyn’s first book, tentatively titled Your Brain is a Magical Asshat, is slated for publication next year.

Website | LinkedIn | Twitter | Tiny Tips Series

Mike Blake, Brady Ware & Company

Mike Blake, Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series

Michael Blake is the host of the Decision Vision podcast series and a Director of Brady Ware & Company. Mike specializes in the valuation of intellectual property-driven firms, such as software firms, aerospace firms, and professional services firms, most frequently in the capacity as a transaction advisor, helping clients obtain great outcomes from complex transaction opportunities. He is also a specialist in the appraisal of intellectual properties as stand-alone assets, such as software, trade secrets, and patents.

Mike has been a full-time business appraiser for 13 years with public accounting firms, boutique business appraisal firms, and an owner of his own firm. Prior to that, he spent 8 years in venture capital and investment banking, including transactions in the U.S., Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.

LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm which helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality. Brady Ware services clients nationally from its offices in Alpharetta, GA; Columbus and Dayton, OH; and Richmond, IN. The firm is growth-minded, committed to the regions in which they operate, and most importantly, they make significant investments in their people and service offerings to meet the changing financial needs of those they are privileged to serve. The firm is dedicated to providing results that make a difference for its clients.

Decision Vision Podcast Series

Decision Vision is a podcast covering topics and issues facing small business owners and connecting them with solutions from leading experts. This series is presented by Brady Ware & Company. If you are a decision-maker for a small business, we’d love to hear from you. Contact us at decisionvision@bradyware.com and make sure to listen to every Thursday to the Decision Vision podcast.

Past episodes of Decision Vision can be found at decisionvisionpodcast.com. Decision Vision is produced and broadcast by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Connect with Brady Ware & Company:

Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:02] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions. Brought to you by Brady Ware & Company. Brady Ware is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality.

Mike Blake: [00:00:22] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we discuss the process of decision making on a different topic from the business owners’ or executives’ perspective. We aren’t necessarily telling you what to do, but we can put you in a position to make an informed decision on your own and understand when you might need help along the way.

Mike Blake: [00:00:42] My name is Mike Blake, and I’m your host for today’s program. I’m a director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia. My practice specializes in providing fact-based strategic and risk management advice to clients that are buying, selling, or growing the value of companies and their intellectual property. Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast, which is being recorded in Atlanta per social distancing protocols.

Mike Blake: [00:01:08] If you would like to engage with me on social media with my Chart of the Day and other content, I’m on LinkedIn as myself and @unblakeable on Facebook, Twitter, Clubhouse, and Instagram. I also recently launched a new LinkedIn Group called A Group That Doesn’t Suck, so please join that as well if you would like to engage. If you like this podcast, please subscribe on your favorite podcast aggregator, and please consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Mike Blake: [00:01:32] Today’s topic is, Should I pivot? And we’ve done this topic before, probably about a-year-and-a-half ago. But as you know, if you’ve been a long time listener, I don’t mind revisiting a topic every once in a while, because certain topics, I think, just lend themselves well to different angles, different approaches. And something like a pivot, also, in my experience is a deeply personal experience. And so, everybody is going to come to a pivot, is going to experience a pivot, is going to engage with it, embrace it or not in their own unique way. And so, it’s one of those kind of evergreen topics that I don’t think we’ll ever get to a point where nobody ever pivots anymore.

Mike Blake: [00:02:17] And, also, frankly, from a very practical perspective, now that we’re recording podcast 140 something or whatever, like 148, I guess, or 149, the reality is that most people don’t go back and listen to a lot of the back catalog. We’re not Led Zeppelin. People aren’t going back to the initial records and trying to find the original recording. So, if you’re like most people and you’re relatively new to the podcast, statistically speaking, this will be a topic that we actually haven’t covered before. And if you want to hear more about it, then you can go back into the deep tracks in the archives somewhere around the double digit episodes. So, I hope you’re going to find this topic and this conversation as engaging as I anticipate that it will be.

Mike Blake: [00:03:02] You know, pivots are interesting because there are some very famous ones I don’t think people necessarily realized. Cornelius Vanderbilt – yes, that Vanderbilt family – initially started out with steamships. He actually started out with river barges around the island of Manhattan, and they are basically providing cut rate ferry service across the Hudson and East Rivers. And in doing so, got a lot of people killed because they used rickety boats. But that’s how they charge less for what they did. They eventually did pivot into steamships, which presumably were safer. I don’t know. I don’t have any data on that. And then, eventually railroads.

Mike Blake: [00:03:45] William Wrigley, whom you may know from Wrigley’s Gum – I don’t chew gum because it rip out all my dental work. But for those of you who do have good teeth, you may know of Wrigley – they originally were a baking powder company. Twitter, of all things, launched as a podcast directory. Yelp began as an automated email service. And YouTube, believe it or not, was once a dating site. So, we have Tinder now and we have all the others, but YouTube actually was not the YouTube that we know of today.

Mike Blake: [00:04:13] And, you know, I find it also an interesting topic because I find myself at odds intellectually with the investment community on one particular topic, and that is, Should you bet the jockey or the horse? And what that means to those of you who aren’t necessarily speaking Silicon Valley, it means that do you place the bet on the management of a startup or do you place your bet on the basic idea of the startup? And most investors will tell you that they bet the jockey, they bet the management team, over the actual idea figuring that a management team will actually figure it out.

Mike Blake: [00:04:55] The data – and this is empirically studied. This is actually a fairly old study, but still very good. It was published in the Journal of Finance back in 2011 – called it Do You Bet the Jockey or the Horse? And the empirical study determined that, in fact, the companies that generated the most value in their IPOs were the ones that had kept the fundamental idea, more or less start to finish, but actually had switched management teams.

Mike Blake: [00:05:21] And the reason behind that, I think, is that – again, probably torching this analogy beyond where it needs to go – if you have a slow horse, the best jockey in the world is not going to win the race of the slow horse. They may prevent you from coming in last. They may prevent you from having the horse fall over, break its leg, and you have to shoot it right down the track. But even a great management team can’t take a slow horse and win the Kentucky Derby. However, if you have the fastest horse, an average jockey might win that race because you actually have the fastest horse.

Mike Blake: [00:05:54] So, I think that there’s something to that. So, finding the right idea, finding the right business model, this highlights how important that is. Because if you don’t have the right business, you don’t have the right model – and the data says this. It’s not just Mike Blake talking into a microphone on the internet – the data suggests that there’s only so far a mediocre business concept will take you.

Mike Blake: [00:06:20] And I don’t care if you’re going to have the best management team in the world, and you can dig up Jack Welch and Steve Jobs and everybody else that you might have idolized, Warren Buffett, you’re only going to take that so far. And I guess that’s why I find pivots so interesting, because a pivot is truly an existential decision. I think it is one of the most important decisions that are made in business and probably one that is not as appreciated as much as it should be.

Mike Blake: [00:06:49] So, fortunately, coming on to join us somebody who is either sort of at the later stages or fresh off a pivot, she’ll tell us exactly where she is on it. But joining us is Jocelyn Brady, who is the Creative Brain Jostler and Brainutainer. She is a writer, speaker, and professional brain jostler who thrives at the intersection of comedy storytelling and unraveling the mysteries of the human brain. When she’s not being the Bill Nye of the brain as the creator and a host of her series, Tiny Tips, The Internet’s Favorite Way to Brain, Jocelyn applies her certified brain coaching chops to help creative visionaries tap their brain’s greatest potential.

Mike Blake: [00:07:30] In her past life as an award-winning copywriter, creative director and agency CEO, Jocelyn led narrative strategy and international storytelling training for some of the world’s biggest brands. She also produced and co-hosted Party Time, a stand-up comedy and storytelling show featuring talent who went on to write or perform for Conan O’Brien, Stephen Colbert, and Comedy Central. All while managing to keep her two cats and houseplants alive. And I have seen at least one of the cats and one of the plants, so we do have proof of life for at least one of each. Jocelyn Brady, welcome to the program.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:08:03] Thank you so much.

Mike Blake: [00:08:05] Oh, and before you jump in, I forgot to mention and this is really important, because you’re doing something that I’m struggling to do myself. Jocelyn’s first book tentatively titled, Your Brain is a Magical Ass Hat, is slated for publication next year. Jocelyn, again, welcome to the program and congratulations on writing a book. I’m struggling to do that, but it’s hard to do that in crayon.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:08:28] Oh, man. It’s hard to even think about or talk about writing a book, let alone actually doing it. But, yeah, I highly recommend joining other people coaching program or other people who are doing it. Just like getting some of that accountability, that’s the biggest thing is just creating that structure. Stick with it.

Mike Blake: [00:08:48] So, we have you here to talk about pivots. And as I like to do on the show, just in case somebody was listening who really doesn’t know what a pivot is, when you hear the term pivot, what does that mean to you?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:09:01] I imagine the basketball move like, “Okay. We were going to go this way and now we go this way.” I know nothing about basketball, but people do pivot.

Mike Blake: [00:09:11] They’re doing great. Yeah.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:09:14] Yeah. It’s just changing course, right? Deciding to move in a new direction, and it could be sudden.

Mike Blake: [00:09:20] So, what did your company originally set out to do?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:09:24] Well, when I started in 2008, all I wanted to do was make a living writing. And, you know, it was literally starting with can I earn enough to eat a sandwich today? And then, it started just growing really quickly. I didn’t have any business experiences in my 20s. I didn’t have a plan. I just thought, “I’m good at writing. I’ll figure it out.” And I got into copywriting. And one thing led to another. More clients were coming my way. I accidentally had more work than I could handle, so I hired a team.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:10:02] So, a team of writers and that grew into, not just content development or copywriting, but also then developing the brand voices and narrative strategy. And overseeing their most important projects, like what is the CEO saying in their annual meeting to shareholders? Or, what are you putting in your video scripts? And even overseeing a Super Bowl ad for a big company. And so, we were developing that tone of voice and then training the teams on how to be better storytellers. And like I said, it didn’t really set out with any grand plan or dream or vision. It was just, I just want to make a living writing.

Mike Blake: [00:10:42] And sandwiches. You wanted sandwiches.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:10:45] I wanted sandwiches to feed myself, I guess.

Mike Blake: [00:10:48] Yeah. And your cats wanted kibbles or Fancy Feast, whatever you feed them. We feed our children, it seems to keep them happy. So, you started this thing and it sounds like it was pretty successful. If anything, maybe so successful that in itself provided a challenge. What were some signs that things in this company weren’t meeting your expectations?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:11:15] I started to get bored. I started to almost resent the projects that were coming in. And I knew that’s not a good place to be. You don’t want to resent work coming in or pass that along to the clients themselves. It’s just a horrible way to approach something and to work with people. So, I think it was just the itch, like it’s not fulfilling. And a lot of times when you start something, you grow up or you excel, and you become now a manager of people, and you’re doing less of the thing that you started doing.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:11:53] It’s like a story as old as time in any company or large corporations, especially. You’re really good at a skill and then you get promoted and you’re like, “Wait a minute. Now, I’m just doing completely different things.” Making sure the business is functioning, and that we have good cash flow, and are the people doing their jobs, and how do we manage when people are out or leave or get vengeful or nobody’s gotten vegetable. You got to prepare for all the scenarios. So, I think that was the main thing is just feeling misaligned with what I was doing.

Mike Blake: [00:12:28] You know, it’s interesting you bring that up, because I think that one of the most underappreciated differentiators of a Bill Gates, of a Sarah Blakely, of a Steve Jobs, and Mark Zuckerberg is that, in addition to all the things that people know they brought to the table, their innovation, their energy, their messaging, and so forth, their vision, but also the skillset and the desire to run and thrive in a startup as well as in a Fortune 100 company. That is not easy to do because you’re not just scaling a person, you have to scale yourself.

Mike Blake: [00:13:15] And not to go all self-help guru here because I’m not it, but not many people can make that journey or want to make that journey. Because, when you’re running Apple, it’s not the same thing as writing code, and being in there, and designing the products and everything. Which I suspect was probably the case with Steve Wozniak why he sort of took a less prominent ride. I don’t know, Stevie. I call him Stevie. He calls me who the hell are you? But I suspect that’s kind of what happened, you know, listening to his interviews, reading what he writes, he would not have had any fun and probably not a lot of success running that kind of company.

Mike Blake: [00:13:54] And it sounds like a little bit of that may apply to you, too, that you started to get far away from what you were doing because of the way the company is growing and somebody had to run it.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:14:03] Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there’s still things that I did love. So, the more I was doing the workshops, I realized that I really loved interacting with people, coming up with ideas on the fly, helping people pull out the creative ideas, and just that live interaction. And you never know really what’s going to happen.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:14:29] And I still love writing, obviously. I’m working on a book and I’m also working on a really big network project. But I take those few and far between because now I realize, if I’m working on a project or I’m outsourcing my writing skills, I have to absolutely love this project. That became very clear. And on the other side of that is, I love spending my time just working directly with people and things where you’re not sitting alone banging your head against the wall going, “Oh, help. Just be here writing.” So, even when we had a pretty significant team, everybody was working remotely. We rarely got together, so it can be lonely even as part of a team.

Mike Blake: [00:15:11] I would argue sometimes it’s lonelier, because, to me, one of the biggest challenges of leadership is to sort of get out there and put a smile on your face when it’s the last thing that you want to do. And when you’re responsible for the care and feeding of a team that has entrusted you to become the platform of their careers and, in some cases, their life satisfaction, that is a very lonely place to be.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:15:41] Yeah. And it could be really scary. And it’s really helpful to connect with other entrepreneurs and people running businesses because you just simply can’t relate to what it’s like, to feel responsible for, not just yourself, but all the other people who are looking up to you like, “What’s happening next?”

Jocelyn Brady: [00:16:03] And let alone – I’m sure we’ll get more into this – COVID, as for many of us, was like, “Oh, everybody is going to hell.” And that’s when all my big contracts vanished. So, the ones I didn’t want were no longer a problem. But it was terrifying because I now had to let my team go. I had to tell them, you know, “There’s no more work. And I would love to keep you around, but I can’t pay you.”

Mike Blake: [00:16:33] I’ve never had to let a whole team go, but I have let people go in my career. But I got to imagine that conversation or series of conversations – I don’t know whether you did it in a group or you did it individually. I’m sure you didn’t do it like that button CEO did it over Zoom and calling people thieves on the way out. I’m sure you didn’t do it that way – that’s got to be the hardest conversation, one of the top five you’ll ever have in your life.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:17:07] Yeah. It’s like a divorce, right? It’s just not working out between us. There’s a lot of emotion. And I got to say, with my longtime assistant, she was five or six years this one, and I absolutely loved her and I knew that she wanted to get more into filmmaking. She’d been doing, but she really wanted to move to L.A. and try it for real. And I really wanted for her to do that. So, when this came around, I think for both of us, it was like the best breakup I could ever imagine because it was sad and we were really emotional, but also really glad for each other. She decided to go to L.A.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:17:52] She just got a role – I think I’m allowed to talk about it now – Haley Joel Osment is in it, James Franco – wait. Sorry. The other Franco directed it, Alison Brie. So, anyway, I couldn’t imagine a better outcome. And I think when you have people’s best interest in mind and you’ll be as vulnerable as you can and say what’s really happening, that’s really, really scary and can be really hard to do. And I think it takes a lot of practice. I don’t think a lot of us are well-versed or trained to do that.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:18:27] Especially in a business setting, there’s this idea you need to be professional and you can’t say emotional things. But, to me, that is crucial and really important for human development, relationships, behavior, all of it.

Mike Blake: [00:18:45] Yeah. And I think it’s rapidly becoming best practices too. You know, the world has changed, obviously. It’s an open question to what extent we’ll go back to in 2019. It’s not going to be 100 percent, I think we all know that.

Mike Blake: [00:19:02] So, your pivot story, it sounds like that COVID accelerated a pivot that might have happened anyway because you really weren’t loving what you were doing. Is that fair?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:19:13] Yeah. Exactly. It had been on my mind for a year and I’d been talking to my team about making transitions. And, yeah, that came along and I was like, “Well, I guess decision made. You’re doing it now.”

Mike Blake: [00:19:28] So, COVID happens. You let your team go. What do you do the next day?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:19:38] Cry a lot, you know, mixed feelings. I was really excited about a new direction, but also terrified. And it’s so difficult to have built something up and then it’s completely gone, in a sense, where it’s starting over. It’s just me again. I have nothing. I have enough to sort of buy a few months, thankfully. But other than that, it’s like, “What am I doing?”

Jocelyn Brady: [00:20:10] And that’s not entirely true, because I did have the four years prior or 2016 or 2017, I got certified as a brain coach. But it’s something I sort of kept secret, because as someone who works with words, I couldn’t wrap my head around how to love the word coach. I hated it. I hate the word coach. The baggage I feel it comes with, it seems so phony. I just had all these unhealthy attachments to the meaning of the word, the meaning I was making.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:20:37] And at the same time, I was still doing it, still coaching people in private for four years. It was just now I got to, “If you really want to be doing this, own it. If you really want to be speaking, tell people you are a speaker. Go out there and speak. Go do the thing. You’ve got nothing to lose now. You got everything to gain.” Because, otherwise, we’ll just be moving with the cats into the crawl space and hope the new landlord doesn’t know or the owner doesn’t know.

Mike Blake: [00:21:10] So, I’m going to ask you sort of a semi-unfair question, but I feel like I want to ask it anyway. COVID gave you kind of the jolt, if you will, sort of forced the pivot on you. Do you think if the pandemic hadn’t happened, you would have made a pivot like this anyway?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:21:29] I’d like to think so. I think eventually I would have. Definitely, I do know that once I decide I’m doing something with full conviction, I’ll do it. But I definitely think it would have taken me longer. I would have had feelings about not wanting to let my team go. And so, if they don’t want to come with me on the new ride, then that would have been the end of that anyway. So, yeah, it’s always hard to say. And you never know what you’re like until really confronted with the situation.

Mike Blake: [00:22:07] That’s true. That’s entirely fair. So, I have to get back to something because I do think it’s a polarizing word, and that is the word coach. And I’d love to hear your perspective on it. My view of the word has changed over the years, but I don’t want to suck all the air out of the room. Tell me why you have such a negative relationship with that word.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:22:36] I think I did not have a lot of exposure to coaches or to good coaches in business, life coaching, whatever the case. Not counting basketball coaches, which, as we’ve established, I know nothing about. But when it comes to that mindset, and direction, achieving goals and that sort of thing – I don’t necessarily want to badmouth some of the big hitters that we see. But it’s easy. It’s easy to shoot arrows at the people standing out in front – I just did not like what I saw. I did not like this feeling that you have to look a certain way, you have to look kind of polished and perfect, and you have to come across it’s always positive and optimistic. And there’s a ton of value in that.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:23:25] But let’s get real. Sometimes life sucks and that’s okay. Let’s deal with the full spectrum of the human experience. And it just felt like there’s a lot of charade out there, and a veneer, and just not authentic sales driven behavior at the expense, a lot of the time, of people’s real mental health that can be damaged in the process.

Mike Blake: [00:23:55] I think there’s something to that. So, we’re segueing into kind of the different part of the conversation, which is fine. But I think in fairness, when I first started running across coaches – I’m a little bit older than you are – I started running across coaches about 15,20 years ago. I didn’t find very many of them to be particularly impressive. I didn’t find many of them to be people like saying, “Oh. Well, this person is worth paying 200 bucks an hour instead of the people who I do respect and are giving me lots of awesome advice for free.” I didn’t see a lot of that.

Mike Blake: [00:24:32] And I do think that there still remain coaches that, you know, sort of come from the school of those who can’t do teach. And we’ve actually had a podcast and I had my professional coach on, and we went through some of that – and maybe I’ll revisit that topic as well. But I don’t think that you’re being unfair. I mean, coaching is largely unregulated. The certifications are very disparate. You know, what does one mean versus another? How meaningful are they at all, et cetera? And, candidly, the quality of coaches is quite variable.

Mike Blake: [00:25:15] So, I don’t think you’re necessarily painting them with a broad brush. I think just the reality of life is that, if you see a pattern over and over and over again, that’s going to be the pattern that is associated with you. At some point stereotypes do come from someplace. They weren’t just made up. They occurred because enough people observed enough behaviors that they start to become an easy way to characterize people rightly or wrongly.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:25:46] Yeah. And I think we haven’t seen or been exposed to it’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy to you think it’s going to be a certain way. And then, you just start seeing it that way and you start looking for those types of people. And that’s kind of all we saw. Like white bread coaches, it’s just sort of the same message. One might be a foot taller than the other. That’s about the only difference. They all just seemed the same.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:26:15] The big discussion that’s been coming up in the last year plus – it’s been coming up a lot longer than that – who are we representing? Who are we putting out there? The diversity and thinking backgrounds, ethnicity, behaviors, we need to see more of that. And I do see that happening, and maybe it’s because I got more into it so I started looking at who else was out there who didn’t have the huge reach and the number one spot on YouTube, et cetera.

Mike Blake: [00:26:46] And I think the numbers also support it. Putting coaching aside for a second, we both know everybody listening to this knows about the great resignation, the great job hop, whatever you want to call it. And I think money is a big, big part of that. Let’s be real, money matters. More money, you have more sandwiches you can buy, and better sandwiches like wheat bread.

Mike Blake: [00:27:16] But this is also sort of the great reckoning with authenticity. You know, being in an organization where you just don’t fit and you try to make yourself fit because you feel like you have to. And I’ve been through that scenario. It is wearing. It is draining. It beats on you constantly. And, now, that people have an opportunity where labor has leverage for the first time in our economy in a very, very long time, you’re seeing just people vote with their feet.

Mike Blake: [00:27:48] My job, for example, as an employer is not so much to give people jobs. It never was. But as much as it is to provide solutions for my clients, it’s also to provide the right platform for my people to thrive, ultimately, maybe with us, maybe someplace else. They’re not going to retire with me, statistically speaking. I know that and they know that, and that’s okay.

Mike Blake: [00:28:14] But I do think that authenticity piece is real. And I think coaching is becoming more respected because, I think, coaches are now embracing and understanding for that need for authenticity. It’s no longer about turning yourself into the template that the market wants. But, rather, understanding what your own template is and bending the rest of the world around to your will.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:28:43] Yeah. Putting yourself out. It’s the whole light attracts light thing. Just put who you really are out there and then you will attract the type of people that you will probably work well with. If you’re putting out some phony shit, it’s not going to be fruitful for anybody. It’s probably a lot more damaging.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:29:07] You know something? It really drove me nuts, too, when I was doing a lot of these storytelling workshops in particular. I would see how people in office settings where it seemed there’s so much fear-based leadership, because if the leaders themselves aren’t courageous enough to put themselves out there and to be vulnerable and to say what’s really on their minds, you have to have some filtering and compassionate communication skills are good in this.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:29:40] I was just hearing about – what is it? – radical candor and sort of some people hating on it. I was like, “Yeah.” There’s a line to walk or balance. But be you. And if you’re not happy, you need to find a way to express that. And if that can’t be resolved, you need to get out because it’s just going to cause everyone to suffer.

Mike Blake: [00:30:04] And because of that – and believe it or not, audience, this actually does relate to the actual topic – this is actually what we’re seeing is a great pivot. Lots of people are pivoting their lives because they’ve been forced to reckon with things in their lives, personal or professional or both. There’s nothing like being in lockdown with your family for a while to find out if you actually like them or not. I mean, that will send a very clear signal as to what your relationship really looks like.

Mike Blake: [00:30:36] So, I’m curious – I think you have a really interesting answer for this. No pressure – when you decide that you’re going to pivot or the pivot happened, what was the hardest thing for you to leave behind?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:30:52] The first thing that pops in my head is money. Just going ahead, a regular –

Mike Blake: [00:30:57] Money is a thing.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:30:58] The least interesting answer I can think of. It’s knowing I have reliable income. So, I empathize a lot with people who are afraid to leave a job because that’s all you know and that’s what you need. You’ve got to pay the bills. So, that’s one thing. And I think it’s also a form of your identity in a story you had about yourself and what you’re doing in the world, and what you mean to people, what you bring, what kind of value you have. And now you’re at the reckoning, you’re at ground zero, and you have to decide what of those things are still true and what do you want to be true.

Mike Blake: [00:31:37] When you pivoted, did you have any kind of template? Was there somebody that you knew that had done something similar? Or was there an example of a company, individual, or organization that made a successful pivot that made you think, “Okay. There are lessons I can take from this thing.” Or, maybe mentors that helped you along the way?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:31:58] So, when I was first getting up the nerve to put myself out there as brain coach speaker, I found a coach who was previously a copywriter and transitioned, made the pivot to become a creative director. And I thought she’s going to understand what it’s like, not just making a transition, but also we have very similar backgrounds, and to just understand this world. So, working with her was instrumental in just having that empathy and also a really good coach. So, that gave me even more confidence of like, “Okay. I found a good coach and it’s continuing to change my perception.” Also, now I’m putting myself out there, so this is working.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:32:52] Her name is Hilary Weiss. She comes to mind immediately. And then, as far as what I was doing exactly, I felt like it was a bit nebulous. Jeff Chrysler is one of my favorite humans. He is a writer. He started as a lawyer and then he decided to become a stand-up comedian. And then, he got into behavioral science. And he now works in a company, quite a big one that I’m losing the name of – J.P. Morgan. And so, people like that who didn’t follow a linear path. Because it’s very difficult if you don’t have a blueprint. You’ve got to make it up as you go. And it’s just nice to see other people who’ve done that.

Mike Blake: [00:33:41] Now, I asked you earlier about what you had to let go in order to pivot. I wanted to ask the flip side of that, what did you take with you? What was valuable that you made sure from your previous experience you’re going to take with you to that next journey?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:33:58] On the very tactical, level writing skills. Everybody needs them. Storytelling and writing skills, because no matter what you do, no matter where you go, you’re going to have to learn how to communicate it and tell a good story. And so, that is lifelong. And it’s always going to be a part of what I do and who I am. And I think the courage to step out into unknown places.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:34:31] I grew up on an active volcano. When I was seven, my house burned down. We were homeless. And so, I think from an early age, after my parents split, this is a very early age of learning resilience or rebuilding and having a perspective that things can disappear. Nothing will last forever. But you will be okay or you’ll be dead. And maybe you’re still okay when you’re dead. But you will figure it out.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:35:02] I love that quote by Oscar Wilde, it’s like, “All of us are in the gutter, it’s just some of us are looking up at the stars.” And I think that it’s like you still have somewhere to go and keep going in that direction. There’s no rush or race or anything. And it’s important to kind of watch your step sometimes. But I love that notion of just keep looking up at the stars.

Mike Blake: [00:35:28] So, I know my listeners are going to kill me if I don’t ask this question. Where was this volcano that you grew up on?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:35:36] Oh, yeah. The Big Island of Hawai’i. And I haven’t been back since 2018. There was another eruption that displaced my dad again, so he moved to Maui to a town called Haiku, which is great because he’s been writing haiku for longer than I’ve been alive. Yeah, that’s my upbringing.

Mike Blake: [00:35:56] Okay. Interesting. We sort of forget that Hawai’i basically is a chain of volcanoes.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:36:03] Yeah. There’s five on the Big Island alone. And then, you know, I just read they discovered a new one they hadn’t known about before further up in the atoll. I forgot, it’s like three quarters of the size of the Big Island. That’s one volcano. It’s the most massive volcano they’ve ever discovered on Earth. It’s long dead, but they’ve just found it under the sea.

Mike Blake: [00:36:25] I was going to ask, it’s probably not above water. It must still be below sea level then.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:36:28] It’s an ancient fossil volcano.

Mike Blake: [00:36:35] I mean, do you consider yourself having pivoted or are you still in the process of doing that?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:36:45] That’s a great question. I think my answer is yes. Because I think there’s a part of me that wanted to erase and eliminate everything that came before. And it’s like I’m never touching words or writing or doing outsourcing. And then, this project came along. It’s actually currently writing about a women’s sports team. I don’t want to say too much. So, I said yes to it because I couldn’t not say no. It was too cool. It was too exciting. And I knew I would do a good job at it.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:37:25] So, while I said I’m never taking on another writing project, this came in. I think you’re always in motion. So, the pivot could be kind of like you go back over here for a bit. And you look over here and it’s a new direction, but there’s some things that I’ll still take with me.

Mike Blake: [00:37:46] Are there new skills that you’ve had to learn maybe that you weren’t expecting or maybe you didn’t expect to have to study so much in order to make this pivot to where you’re going now?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:37:56] Oh, man. Marketing yourself. I used to just be the person telling other people what to do. And, now, I’m going to put my own face out there. I think you may have found me from the Tiny Tips video. I think that might have been something on LinkedIn. So, I started figuring it out. Like, “All right. Well, no one’s going to know what you do if you don’t tell them. Hello? So, put yourself out there.” And that’s been a learning curve.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:38:25] And, really, it’s more time consuming than I thought it might be. Let alone, as you know, creating a podcast or video, and just the editing, and the production. And there’s a lot more involved than I think you might imagine at first. It’s not just make this cool little thing and put it out there. No. Being more strategic and thoughtful about the kinds of stuff I’m putting out there and when.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:38:48] So, I’m actually working on a full content plan, which it’s just hilarious to me that I did not do that for myself, but I spent, like, 13 years doing that or helping other people do that. So, I think it’s applying stuff that you might know, but now you have to do it to yourself if you’re in that position of marketing yourself.

Mike Blake: [00:39:07] We’re talking with Jocelyn Brady, Creative Brain Jostler and Brainutainer. And the topic is, Should I pivot? You know, that’s really interesting. I think a lot of us, as we kind of move along in life in our professional lives, particularly if we ever strike out on our own, we do confront the fact that we’re going to find out if everything we’ve been telling other people to do actually works.

Mike Blake: [00:39:39] I have my own single shingle for about three years or so. And that was the narrative I basically told people, “How is it?” And what we’re going to find out, if any of the advice I’ve been giving people the last ten years or so is any good at all, right? And, fortunately, it turned out that it was reasonable. But to be perfectly candid, it was a little disconcerting to sort of confront that because I did sort of internalize, rightly or wrongly, this is not just about me, but this is actually about how I have held myself out as an adviser to other people and still doing that.

Mike Blake: [00:40:18] And if I can’t even make a go of a sole practitioner, then I’m really going to have to take a step back and reevaluate myself. Probably go get a PhD and Old Norse or something and just make a living out of reading Viking sagas or something. That was sort of the fallback plan B. My wife was happy I didn’t go there. So, I can totally see how it’s jarring when, all of a sudden, you’re looking around, “Who am I going to tell to do this? Oh, nobody. It’s me.”

Jocelyn Brady: [00:40:48] Yeah. Yeah. “Oh, God. Is my advice to myself good? Can I live up to my own standards?”

Mike Blake: [00:40:58] So, where is the business? How would you characterize the business now? Tell our listeners about exactly kind of what you do and why you love it. And has it been a good move for you since you did it?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:41:15] Yeah. So, I started with just stepping into one-on-one brain coaching, and putting myself out there for that and seeing how I could make that work. And it worked. And it’s not that I couldn’t believe it, it was just like, “Wow. Fast.” And the reason I love that is – what I like to say is – helping you create what you most want before you die. No big deal. So that, to me, I couldn’t think of anything cooler than helping people create that thing, whatever it is to them.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:41:51] Some people, it’s one person always wanted to start an art gallery, and she did that. One person who wanted to write a children’s book, and she did that. Another person wanted to quit his job, make a pivot into a totally new career and make six figures, so he did that. And it spans the gamut from really personal, sometimes it’s more nebulous. Like, “I just want to have more fun in my life and have a better relationship with my kids, because my business is going really well.” And then, it’s the flip side of, “I’m just starting my business and I want to figure it out and make it work.” That is extremely fulfilling.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:42:32] And then, in the next year, I’m going harder on really speaking in workshops. So, back to doing some more workshops again – I love them – around storytelling, but also around perspective and communication skills and play creativity.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:42:52] And I picked up some speaking gigs this year. I got to speak at the 3 Percent Conference, and – oh, man – it’s so much fun. Basically, it’s a show up and talk story, and sometimes interactive, sometimes more interactive than others. And it’s like going out and being a stand-up comedian without having to put on all the work. Or you don’t have to go to the open mics every single night and no one expects you to be funny. It’s great.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:43:19] As you read in my intro, I absolutely love stand-up comedians. I hosted them. I never did it myself, but they have the most amazing work ethic and are just incredible students and minds. And so, I feel if I can tap some of that in some of the work that I do that I’m also really fulfilled with that.

Mike Blake: [00:43:42] You could do stand-up comedy, I think.

Jocelyn Brady: [00:43:45] You know, I was thinking about if open mics are a regular thing for a while, I might go check them out. I think it’s really good to put in the reps and to feel. A friend of mine actually just challenged me last week. He said, “I will go do another stand-up set if you do it.” And I was like, “Okay. I’m ready to go flail around.”

Mike Blake: [00:44:09] Jocelyn, we’re sort of running out of time here. I want to be respectful of your time. There are probably topics that we might have covered that our listeners wish we would have done so, but didn’t. Or maybe they would have liked us to go deeper on something that we did talk about. If somebody wants to follow up with you for more information, can they do so? And if so, what’s the best way to do that?

Jocelyn Brady: [00:44:31] Yeah. jocelynbrady.com. jocelthem, J-O-C-E-L-T-H-E-M, like them, not you, not us, on Instagram and YouTube. Also, what else do I got for you? LinkedIn, Jocelyn Brady.

Mike Blake: [00:44:48] Well, that’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. I’d like to thank Jocelyn Brady so much for sharing her expertise with us.

Mike Blake: [00:44:54] We’ll be exploring a new topic each week, so please tune in so that when you’re faced with your next business decision, you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy these podcasts, please consider leaving a review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us that we can help them. If you would like to engage with me on social media with my Chart of the Day and other content, I’m on LinkedIn as myself and @unblakeable on Facebook, Twitter, Clubhouse, and Instagram. Also, check out my new LinkedIn Group called A Group That Doesn’t Suck. Once again, this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision podcast.

 

 

Tagged With: Brady Ware & Company, Brain Coach, career pivot, career strategy, coaching industry, Decision Vision, Jocelyn Brady, Mike Blake, pivoting your business, Scribe Story Studios, storytelling

The R3 Continuum Playbook: Employee Wellbeing in 2021 and What to Expect in 2022

January 6, 2022 by John Ray

Employee wellbeing
Minneapolis St. Paul Studio
The R3 Continuum Playbook: Employee Wellbeing in 2021 and What to Expect in 2022
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

Employee wellbeing

The R3 Continuum Playbook: Employee Wellbeing in 2021 and What to Expect in 2022

In this excerpt from a webinar conducted in December 2021, Dr. George Vergolias, Medical Director at R3 Continuum, covered issues and pain points of employee wellbeing in 2021 and looked ahead at workplace trends to expect in 2022. He discussed the disruptive factor of hybrid work and how it will evolve, the challenges of staffing and labor, the growing disconnect between leadership and employees, the toll of virtual work and how it may impact creativity, and much more. The R3 Continuum Playbook is presented by R3 Continuum and is produced by the Minneapolis-St.Paul Studio of Business RadioX®. R3 Continuum is the underwriter of Workplace MVP, the show which celebrates heroes in the workplace.

Other R3 Continuum webinars can be found here.

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:00] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX studios, here is your R3 Continuum Playbook. Brought to you by Workplace MVP sponsor, R3 Continuum, a global leader in workplace behavioral health, crisis and security solutions.

Shane McNally: [00:00:14] Hi, there. My name is Shane McNally, Marketing Specialist for R3 Continuum. As 2022 begins, it’s important to look ahead and recognize the trends that may be seen throughout the year regarding employee wellbeing. This information is provided by Dr. George Vergolias, Medical Director at R3 Continuum. Reflecting on 2021, there has been a shift between different priorities, work environments, mental health and overall wellbeing importance and more. Dr. George Vergolias is going to dive in and offer eight things that he foresees will be trending in 2022. This information is gathered from various reports and trends we’ve seen in years past.

Shane McNally: [00:00:50] Dr. George Vergolias oversees and leads R3C’s clinical risk, threat of violence and workplace violence programs. He’s directly assessed or manage over 1000 cases related to threat of violence or self harm, sexual assault, stalking and communicated threats. He brings over 20 years of experience as a forensic psychologist and certified threat manager to bear in an effort to help leaders, organizations, employees and communities heal, optimize and ultimately thrive during and after disruption. Thank you for being with us, Dr. Vergolias. So, let’s start off today’s webinar by asking a question, what drives human thriving?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:01:29] Okay. Thank you, Shane, for that warm introduction. And what’s interesting is, so you heard a little bit about my bio, forensic psychologist, I’ve done a ton of threat work, a ton of hostility management work and so on. But a big part of that is also understanding resilience and understanding the flip side of wellbeing because wellbeing, when you are functioning well emotionally, intellectually, when you’re living your best life, you’re really functioning in a way and at a level that is diametrically opposed to being violent.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:02:03] So, I’ve had to be forced to become an expert in understanding resilience and wellbeing, and what is it that allows people to pull through hard times; whereas, other people decide to go on a violent trajectory? So, my larger role is Medical Director for R3. I oversee all of our services. And a big part of that is understanding the wellbeing and resilience aspect.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:02:25] And so, back to Shane’s question, what drives human thriving? And what I want to do is I want to talk about one of my favorite stories of all time. And it’s a true story about Margaret Mead. Margaret Mead, arguably one of the best most famous anthropologists, at least in the United States. She was giving a lecture in Oxford 70 some years ago, and a student in the lecture hall had raised – I’m assuming it’s a he but these are her hand. I believe it was a young man, and he asked Margaret Mead, when does she think civilization began? What were the first signs of civilization?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:03:01] And the students and the other faculty that were there, they expected an answer around something like the first time we carbon dated finding pottery, or weapons, or an arrowhead or some kind of structure that was built, or a vase or some kind of structure that carried water, whatever it would be. Cooking tools, eating tools, whatever it may be. And that’s not what she said at all. She said, “We know civilization began around the time that we were able to backdate, carbon back date, a broken femur bone, a human leg bone that had healed.” And a lot of people in the auditorium looked puzzled.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:03:41] And she went on to explain that in the animal kingdom, when you break your leg, you’re done. It’s game over. There’s no other animal that sits and stays with you. And if you have a broken leg, it doesn’t naturally heal on itself by the time that you either starve or you die of dehydration or some other predator takes you. But once they found that femur bone that had healed, they knew that somebody, some other creature, arguably another human, had stayed there and protected that person, and brought them sustenance, and kind of nursed them through the healing process till they at least can get up and get moving.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:04:17] So, the point is that we are best, we are most human and we are at our best when we are assisting and helping one another. And that’s what we’re going to talk about in terms of trends through 2021 and into 2022. But I want that story to anchor us.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:04:33] So, let’s first look backwards. It’s always a good time to kind of take stock and look back at the past year. What impacted employee wellbeing the most in 2021? And what we saw at the end of 2020, going into 2021, is we saw some trends that did indeed pan out. And one of them was from the Fortune Deloitte 2021 CEO Survey. This was done at the back end of 2020, looking forward into 2021. And what they found is 98% of CEOs reported that mental health was a priority for them going into this current year, 2021.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:05:10] They also find that the pandemic had significantly accelerated various types of digital transformation, most notably what we’re doing now. Quite often, even though we did webinars through telepresence before, that has markedly accelerated through the pandemic and over this past year as well. And then, the pandemic was fostering information around or formation of new partnerships, new alliances and new creative ways of doing business and working together over remote distances.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:05:43] And what we saw in this past year is many companies, not all, but many companies made good on those promises, and many CEOs made good on those promises, and we saw an acceleration of that going through the year. And that’s been largely a good thing. There have been a few things that have created some pain points, and I’m going to get at that in just a second.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:06:06] We saw a few other things. One is that COVID 19, COVID, the epidemic or pandemic, rather, it created tensions, and it tested the limits of the worker-employer relationship. And early on, we saw certain pain points around concerns of safety. Later on, we saw pain points around mask mandates. And then, we saw and are still seeing pain points around vaccination requirements, and we’re seeing different businesses handle that differently. But what that is doing is it really is testing those boundaries of where does an employer’s reach and where does their due diligence then begin in terms of creating safe environments for their workforce?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:06:54] And from a legal perspective – and again, full disclaimer, I’m not a lawyer, I work a lot in conjunction with the legal world as a forensic psychologist – what we’re seeing is there really isn’t still any court or legal precedent around handling COVID risk as an employer, as well as COVID restrictions. So, all of this is still at play, and I think we’re all still trying to figure out what is that balance. And what makes it even more confusing is that balance is going to be different for different industries and different employers. And in some cases, across the same employer, it might be different at different locations. So, that’s one thing.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:07:34] The second thing we saw is the adoption of what I’m calling telepresence everything. So, another kind of disclaimer here, for 19 years, I’ve had a private practice that is focused on doing telemedicine for emergency departments in North Carolina. Just the practice I’ve had on the side, it keeps me vibrant, keeps me accessible and it keeps me sharp clinically. I’ve spent the last 10 years trying to get hospitals, and clinicians and outpatient clinics to adopt telepresence and telehealth. COVID changed all that almost overnight in terms of the forced and accelerated adoption of going to telehealth, and both providers and recipients – patients – being those on the receiving side, being open to it and being flexible with it, including boards, changing licensure requirements, payers and insurance, changing their payment requirements to allow this.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:08:30] And we are not going back. I’m not saying we won’t begin to go back to more clinic-based therapy in some ways, but there is a large swath of the population that has found that telepresence or telehealth has been functional, it has been helpful, it has been effective, and useful and has broken down regional barriers to proper care.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:08:52] So, we’re seeing that, but we’re also seeing, again, what we’re doing right now, and I imagine if we were in a room and I did a show of hands of how many of us have been on a Microsoft Teams or Zoom call this week for business, almost everybody would raise their hand in terms of being involved in that in the last week or two. So, we’ve seen a huge adoption of that. And I’m going to talk about the pros and cons of that as well.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:09:15] The other thing that we’ve seen is that wellbeing, although, as I said in the last slide, has been a huge initiative, there are some barriers and pain points in terms of the impact of that. What we’re seeing now based on the Harvard Business Review study that was done just a couple of months back, 89, almost 90% percent of employees are saying that their work/life balance is getting worse – I’ll talk a little bit about that in a minute – 85% are reporting well-being has worsened in general; 56% indicated that their job demands have increased since the onset of the pandemic, and particularly over the past year; and 19% of women – so, we’re seeing some specific population issues – are reporting that they felt their job was at risk. And a lot of this was particularly around many of them being in a position where they can’t stop also being kind of a primary caretaker at home. Whether they’re a single mother or even if they’re in a married relationship, some of those older traditional gender roles, none of that has stopped, while they also have an accelerated adoption of being on conference calls and continuing to have increased productivity.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:10:24] What’s really interesting is another pain point I’m going to get into. I’m just laying out the metrics. 40% – and this is at a global level – of the workforce is considering a change going in to the back end of 2021 and into 2022. A change in jobs, basically. So, talent acquisition is an issue, and I’ll be talking more about that in a second. So, as a segue, so that’s kind of the landscape that we’re now just emerging out of. 2019 or 2020 had its challenges with the onset of the COVID pandemic. 2021 was okay, we’re getting our legs under us, but still trying to figure out a lot of these issues with all their attendant pain points. Now ,the question is, what does 2022 have in store? So, these are predictions, these are speculations, but they’re based on trends and they’re based on what we kind of know in terms of not only our own experience consulting with those in the C-suite and upper management, but looking at the trends across a number of reports and where the workforce is going around issues of wellbeing and thriving.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:11:32] So, let’s start with what our leaders concerned about, because I think that’s a good barometer, at least, of understanding that at the top. In the beginning of this past year, many CEOs, many leaders, especially in the Deloitte survey, which is a kind of an industry standard, were talking about this as the year of hope. As we started entering into mid-2021 with the Delta variant beginning — well, not beginning but when it was beginning in the mid part of the year to kind of start raging and a few other supply chains still not back online, there were other pain points going on, they moved to have more bold plans about growth, innovation and digital transformation all based out of necessity. All of that was needed.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:12:16] Another big key component, there was there was a lot of initiatives around, how do we transform our talent networks? How do we recruit, and develop and train people differently? Good news is over 75% of CEOs still remain bullish on 2022. They still are looking at positive growth, they’re looking at innovation, and they’re really thinking the business community is going to continue to thrive and adapt to the changes ahead. That all is good. That’s a positive message. But we also are seeing is what we saw a year ago, mental health and wellbeing remain prominent as focused areas for leaders and CEOs in particular. So, there’s a lot of focus on that, and there’s a lot of resources and initiative being put in that direction. Again, different companies will differ on this dimension, but as a whole, there’s a big momentum in place that continues to ride us into 2022.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:13:08] Well, we’re also seeing is D&I issues. Diversity, inclusion, these are rapidly accelerating in focus. In January of 2021, so just a little under a year ago, 94% of CEOs said D&I issues and initiatives was a strategic priority. By June, by midyear, 50% were actually making good on those promises. They were prioritizing those initiatives for inclusion and talent adoption strategy or talent attraction; they were setting clear goals to measure the impact of their D&I initiatives and priorities; and they were communicating those metrics back to their employees in a way that there could be a feedback loop about what is working and what isn’t working. So, again, another positive change that we’re starting to see develop through 2021, and we’re expecting that to continue in 2022.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:14:08] And by the way, these initiatives are not just for marginalized groups. There’s a large — I don’t want to say majority, but there’s a large swath of people that are not in disenfranchised groups but strongly identifying in an ally shift way with those groups who are supporting those initiatives. And in the end, those are tending. The research is showing those are tending to make more cohesive and innovative work groups across a number of different sectors.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:14:42] So, now, what I want to do is take those high level metrics. Again, we talked about 2021, talked about 2022, and I want to go in just seven specific trends that I think we can expect going into this new year. Again, these are born out of various data points, various reports, we make reference to these in the slide if you want to go do a deeper dive. And they are a little bit — I mean, these are predictive trends. These are things that we’re looking towards based on where we’ve just come out of, but they wouldn’t be in this presentation if I didn’t feel quite confident that we’re going to see some of these or each of these in some capacity as we navigate forward.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:15:25] So, the first is that the biggest disruption that we can expect this next year is hybrid work and trying to figure out, what does that mean? What does that mean for us? What we’re seeing – now, this is based off the Microsoft Work Trends report from March, and they did a little bit of a follow-up just recently; I believe it was in November. But what they were saying is 66% of leaders of their company, they’re considering redesigning their office space for hybrid work. Almost three-quarters of employees want flexible remote work options, and over over two-thirds of employees want more in-person work or collaboration post-pandemic. So, what’s interesting — I’m sorry, employers. I mean employees want more in-person work.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:16:14] So, what do we see here? What we’re seeing is kind of a split in both directions, right? Leaders are definitely responding and trying to create workspaces that can adapt to more remote and hybrid work environments; three-quarters of workers want flexibility to work from home and from the office; and yet, two-thirds are also saying we still want that in-person engagement for collaboration post-pandemic. And again, different companies are going to adopt this at different levels based on their financial tolerance, their risk tolerance and other issues, but this is going to be a disruptive factor as we move forward, and companies are going to have to figure out a plan to navigate that in a way that works for their culture, their industry, and at some level, their bottom line as well. That all has to be factored in.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:17:05] Second big issue is talent acquisition. This is going to rapidly change. We’ve already seen it, but we’re seeing more. Questions of attracting talent, retaining talent and then developing internal talent will continue to be massively disrupted as we go forward. There’s a quote on your screen there, I’m not going to read the whole thing, but I’m going to highlight a few points, and this comes from the Deloitte — I’m sorry, the Deloitte Insights report from July. What we saw in 2020 is 80% of job losses were among the lowest quarter of wage earners, and many of them were working in the service sector. A new study shows that 100 million global low-wage workers will need to find a different occupation by 2030. That is a massive shift in the job market.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:17:50] In addition to that, we are continuing to see acceleration of robotic impact in the workforce, which disproportionately affects lower wage or labor-based type occupations or jobs. And we’re seeing that the demand for skilled workers at the same time that this is happening, skilled workers is also growing, with 7 in 10 employers globally saying they’re struggling to find workers. For any of us that are interested in selling a home, buying a home, building a home, or even just trying to get some remodeling done, we know the labor shortage in the skilled labor and construction and remodeling world. So, we’re already seeing that. So, there’s going to be massive impact.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:18:34] What’s also interesting with this is at the same time that all of these data points are happening out of necessity, you might say, and I’m not saying — what I mean by necessity is the job market is moving, so people or the labor force is moving and evolving, we also have a disproportionate number of white-collar workers. So, people with higher degrees working more white collar jobs, who are just fed up with their current arrangement of working in corporate America. They want to live remotely, they want flexible hours, they want to be their own boss. So, we’re seeing a higher proliferation of people leaving traditional jobs where they have good positions. They’ve been at a firm, a law firm or one of the big four accounting firms for a number of years and moved up, and they’ve just decided — to put it in my terms, they’re kind of done with the rat race, and they just want to get out.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:19:29] We’re also seeing younger workers from Gen Z and millennials who are developing a whole new — well, not new because these have been around for a while, but they’re developing a deeper sense of what they want out of a job. It’s no longer advancement and a good paying salary. I want to feel rewarded, I want to feel supported, I want to feel like I’m making a difference, I want to be part of a company that’s making a difference in the world. All of these are different things that are occurring that’s forcing us as business leaders and talent acquisition leaders to rethink, how do we attract, retain and develop people in our companies and in our organizations? So, it’s going to be a challenge as we navigate forward.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:20:17] So, sadly, I talked earlier about a lot of the CEOs talking about it’s the year of hope this past year and remaining bullish on 2020, and wellbeing, and D&Y, initiatives all being part of the priority. And that’s all wonderful news. There’s still a disconnect. Leaders are still generally out of touch. This is also coming from the Microsoft Trends report. It, also, is backed up by some of the findings from the Deloitte Insights report as well. But from the Microsoft report, 61% of leaders are reporting themselves as thriving and accelerating their thriving through 2021 versus only 38% of their employees are reporting that. That is a disconnect.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:21:01] Now, some of the best organizations are kind of evolving and thriving together from top to bottom, but the norm is that leaders increasingly think that they’re doing well, and thriving and growing; employees are not. And so, there is a disconnect. Unfortunately, I don’t know exactly what that disconnect is. There’s a number of factors that I think are related. The next bullet point captures one of them. We’re exhausted. When I say we, I mean the workforce in general. And it’s masked by high productivity.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:21:33] So, here’s an interesting finding we’re seeing not only at the beginning of 2021, but growing through the year, and we’re actually expecting this to continue to grow into 2022, and there’s a blessing and a curse here. 85% of employees report the same or higher productivity from the prior year. So, 2021 was just as productive or more productive than 2020, except 53% more feel overworked, and 39% more feel exhausted from the prior year. So, yes, we’re doing more, but we’re paying a high, high toll on employees’ wellbeing.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:22:13] And when you marry that or abridge that into the talent dilemma, that is a real concern. It’s a real recipe for disaster because if we have a core constituency, you might say, of the workforce that either they’re forced to move on because they’re semi-skilled role is being outsourced or not available or higher skilled workers or more educated workers are just deciding, “I’ve had it with the rat race,” and they’re feeling “I’m more productive than eve, and yet I’m more exhausted, and I’m not doing well, and I’m overworked,” that creates an environment that more people want to leave and more people want to start jumping to other opportunities around them. So, it’s going to be a really interesting year to see how we, as a business community and in roles of leadership and management, and HR, navigate that going forward.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:23:07] Another consideration is that the digital intensity of our engagement and life balance, there’s been a creep. There’s been an increased impact of that over time. So, a few bullet points there. Microsoft Teams, just the occurrence of the number of teams that the average person sits in – meaning conference call teams or meetings – is up two times than it was a year ago. The average meeting is up 10 minutes longer than it was a year ago. The average user is sending 45% more chats through Microsoft Teams.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:23:41] And the problem that — well, actually, I’m going to jump ahead real quick because there’s one more visual I want to share with you, and then I’ll get to not my final slide, but a conclusion point there. What we’re also seeing – and again, all of this is from the Microsoft Work Trend report, which is really interesting because they could call all of this anonymized data from MS teams, particularly if your organization opts in for that data sharing.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:24:07] So, meetings, weekly meeting time has more than doubled for team users and is still rising all through 2020, but also continuing to go into 2021. This trend hasn’t gone away. Again, this study was from March of 2021, but this trend continues. There’s been an increase in the number of emails delivered in February of 2021 versus February of 2020, and there’s indications that this has continued to increase. I already mentioned that 45% more chat is occurring. And this is interesting, the number of people working on office documents is up 66% over the same year.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:24:46] Now, on the one hand, if we’re all going remote, we would expect some of this to increase. And that all makes some sense because we’re not — I’m going to hop back here. Because we’re not together, we don’t have the ability to go have lunch together downstairs at the little café, or talk in the break room, or even just meet at the watercooler. Those opportunities are not there, so we have to chat more, we have to email more. And all of that makes a little bit of sense organically. Here’s the trouble is what we’re finding is we’re getting huge digital fatigue. It is just draining to feel like we are constantly on.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:25:25] What’s interesting is there was a study done, and I wish I would have added it to the slide, but I’ll just comment on it real quickly. I believe I saw it in Inc Magazine, but prior to that, I believe it was in Forbes. And what they looked at is, what is the kind of the lit reality of being in meetings in lived time, in-face, or in-person, and being on a screen? Well, the oddity is right now, of this multiple hundred, three or four hundred people watching this right now, I don’t know how many are looking at me right now. So, if I want to stop and take a glass drink of water, and I’m going to do that because I’m thirsty, it’s kind of a bit of an awkward moment, right? It’s a pause, it’s silent. Even if I’m not talking – of course, I’m presenting, so I have to be talking now – I’m not sure who’s looking at me.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:26:17] But when you’re in a room with people, and you can see that 12 other people or 15 other people are looking at the speaker, you could kind of turn off for a second. And I don’t mean you turn your attention away, but you can relax, you can scratch your nose, you can fix your hairline, you can adjust in your seat, you could quickly check a text if you are afraid your kids are texting you that they got off the bus, whatever the issue is. When we have this platform, there is this kind of subtle paranoia that forms of feeling like we always have to be on, and engaged, and focused. And it’s tremendously draining to have that. And we don’t have that in our normal face-to-face meetings because we get numerous micro breaks when we notice everyone else is focusing on the screen, or this talker, or that talker.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:27:08] So, again, that — and then, you’re in my home. So, I have to constantly worry about, are people judging my background? Is my office clean? The kids are off right now, they’re going to come in, and I’ve had to warn them not to bother me because I’m giving a presentation right now. This has an emotional and psychological drain, and it’s kind of a cognitive load over time. So, it’s something else we’re going to have to be mindful of as we go forward.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:27:35] What I’ve heard about and what we’ve implemented at R3 to some good effect is leaders, we’ve encouraged leaders to empower and encourage people to fade their background if they want. We literally have some workers that for any number of reasons, take calls from their bedroom. They don’t want you in their bedroom. Even if you went over to their house for a barbecue, they wouldn’t invite you into their bedroom. And yet you’re in their bedroom during an account meeting or a sales meeting or whatever. So, we encourage them, use the muted background, so no one can see where you are in your home or use one of the other template backgrounds.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:28:11] We also encourage people, if you need to go off camera for a little bit, go off camera. There’s no judgment there. Everyone may need to do that. If you need to mute, go ahead and do that. Because where we are in our lives, our work life and our personal life, are now a little more blended. And we have to be more mindful about where those boundaries land and empowering people to use those boundaries and set those up, so they can still promote a sense of wellbeing, and no one to emotionally and psychologically turn off. So, we want to keep that in mind as we navigate forward.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:28:49] Okay. You know what, I lied to you guys, and I didn’t mean to. There’s actually eight trends. So, let me get through those. And then, it might be a good time to pause and see if we have a few other additional questions.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:29:02] So, trend number six, collaboration and productivity, they might be harmed by shrinking social networks. The jury is a little bit out here, and we’re still trying to figure this out. So, on the one hand, we are more — I’ve already made the case, the data doesn’t lie, we are much more interactive than we’ve ever been. And that has been very, very useful in terms of — well, it’s been out of necessity, but we are communicating. We’re communicating more. We’re using more tools, chat, email, again, telepresence or teleconferencing. And in one way, that has kept us connected, which has been useful because if we didn’t have any of that in 2020 and 2021, that would have been big trouble for business productivity and innovation.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:29:50] Here’s the problem. Because of that, we are continuing to lack the lived social experience of being in presence with somebody. And I call that magic of innovation that happens when you’re interacting with somebody in a room. I had the pleasure of having a very good friend, still do, who was a really good jazz musician. He’s not famous, but he plays with a lot of famous jazz musicians. I mean, he’s just amazing in terms of his talent. And what’s funny is when COVID started, a lot of jazz musicians, among other artists, had to move into the studio, and they were doing studio work remotely. It was all digitized. The problem with jazz, just like the problem with most good music, there’s an innovative back and forth. There’s a dance, there’s a flow that people get into. And what we are finding is even on the business side, the innovative side, sales, marketing, developing new products, bringing them to the market, all of that has been stifled a bit by that lack of innovative magic of being reasonably in the presence of one another.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:31:02] So, again, don’t know what the answer is to there. Hopefully, the answer is we get a handle on things. Hopefully, Omicron isn’t — we certainly know it’s more contagious than Delta. Hopefully, it’s not as severe in its symptomatology. And hopefully, we can get a handle on it in a way that maybe we can start getting back into face-to-face interactives. Many of us, maybe all of us have been to virtual conferences in the last year, I can’t speak for everybody, but I can tell you I’ve been to some good ones, and I’ve been to many where it’s not even close to the lived experience of being in-person with somebody. So, these are things that we’re going to have to adapt to.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:31:42] Now, there’s a paradox here. And the paradox is at the same time that that has increased our interaction but decrease that kind of magical innovation that gone on and on for five minutes about that, there is at the same time what we’re seeing an increase in authentic engagement. And the authentic engagement is if we were in a conference call, some people would be asking me turning to the wrong direction about my boxing gloves. Those are my dad’s boxing gloves. He fought Golden Gloves when he was a young man in Chicago. That would never come up if we were in the office. And then, “Oh, you’re from Chicago,” or “Oh, your dad boxed. Did you learn to box?” These are little moments where we kind of — whether we mean to or not, we let people into our lives and we become a little more engaging. It’s a little more of an authentic interaction. And the paradox is we’re not doing this in person.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:32:32] So, the time we’ll be able to tell or only time can tell, I should say, of how is that going to play out. On the one hand, there’s something kind of artificial about this digital interaction. On the other hand, over time, you’re getting to see my — I mean, again, if these were regular calls, eventually you’d meet my dog. Shane has heard my dog bark so many times, he probably can recognize the bark. Shane has met my kids – he never would have probably met my kids – because they burst in when they get home from school, even though I tell them not to sometimes. That creates an authentic engagement where our humanness is shown and it comes through.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:33:13] So, it’s going to be really interesting to see how six and seven bounce off each other as we continue to navigate forward in 2022, particularly around issues of humor, and vulnerability and so on.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:33:27] All right. Number eight, and you might have already suspected this when I was talking quite a bit about the talent dilemma, but in a suddenly remote hybrid world – and when I say sudden, yes, it evolved over a year, 12 months, 18 months, but if you look at the history of any of our organizations, like go back 20, 30, 50, 60 years, some of us maybe are in organizations that go back a hundred years, you go back and look at the history of modern work since the industrial age began, 18 months is a blip. It is a blip on the map. That is a very rapid change. So, in a suddenly remote hybrid world, the talent pool is going to be global. We’re already seeing that. We already were trending that way, but now that so many of us have adapted to remote hybrid work, we’ve now eliminated that barrier.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:34:24] Now, some employers, some leaders are saying, “I want people back in the office and I want to hire people that live — I’m in Raleigh, North Carolina, so I want people that live around here, so they can come in the office.” That’s a choice. But what most organizations have, at least, been able to say or prove is that some of what we do can be not outsourced, but it can be off-sourced, it can be off the site, it could be at home, or remote or hybrid. And what that means is, now, when I’m looking for that account manager, or sales exec, or that head clinician, or that clinical program manager, I can now look in California, or Arizona, or New England. I don’t only have to look in Raleigh. So, that expands the talent pool.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:35:07] But what it also does to the talent, it means their options are expanding as well. So, if they join my group and they find after a year, “I don’t like the fit. I don’t like the mission. I don’t like the support I’m getting. I don’t like the level of development and mentoring I’m getting. I don’t like the company’s approach to D&I and inclusion-based issues or wellbeing, I now can look for a job in California, and Arizona and New England.” So, again, this is a dilemma that we all are going to have to navigate as we continue to move forward.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:35:41] Okay. All right. This might be a good time to take a quick pause. Shane, are there any questions that came through?

Shane McNally: [00:35:50] Yeah. We have one here that I think was pretty relevant. We had it in one of the first slides. So, with the move to more hybrid and work-from-home situations, do you forecast a rise in domestic violence? And what are companies doing to ensure they meet the duty of care obligations to provide a safe work environment in a remote world?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:36:10] Wow, that is a great question. And it’s a hard one to absolutely answer, but I’m gonna do my best. And it’s one I kind of know the area of. So, we’ve already seen an uptick in domestic violence already in 2021. I would expect that to be the same, maybe a slight uptick into 2022. And some of these issues can get very complex, but just because for sake of time, I won’t go into all the variables from a risk angle, but it really comes down to when you are in an environment of hostility, where there’s an abuser and a victim, leaving for eight hours a day and separating isn’t a bad thing. The first thing most of us will do when we see a fight brewing, whether it’s at the Thanksgiving table or, unfortunately, if it’s at a Little Little League game, or if you’re a police officer responding to a situation, you separate. Leaving the house every day and going into work is, at least, a forced separation. Now, that’s all at home. That separation isn’t occurring. So, it doesn’t have to be a hotbed, but it increases the risk of flashpoints, of volatile flashpoints that can emerge into violence. So, I do think there’s a significant risk there.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:37:27] In terms of what are people doing, this is varied significantly, greatly. The best companies are really trying to do a job of reaching out, letting their employees know that they have domestic violence support resources, they’ve got mental health support resources, they have counseling, anonymous counseling resources, they have threat of violence services available to help people navigate a potentially violent or hostile situation. The best ones are doing that.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:37:57] What they’re also doing is trying to create cultures by which employees feel comfortable coming forward and sharing concerns about another employee, even if it’s anonymous, such that at least we can try to get people delivered or connected rather to the help that they may need. In terms of due diligence or duty, that gets tough now. And again, I think an employment lawyer would be better to ask in terms of where does the employer’s reach end. Yes, you’re working from home now, and yes, there is some kind of responsibility, but to what degree, as your employer, am I responsible for keeping your home environment safe? And at what point am I infringing on your personal life and your personal rights if I go too far with that?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:38:51] I can say because I deal a lot with domestic violence, I deal a lot of threat of violence, and that intersects with legal and law enforcement, the jury is out on where those boundaries are. Again, this is a very new arena for us in terms of trying to figure out due diligence, duty to warn. And then, the question of how do courts, how does litigation in courts view that? So, it’s a really good question. I would say continue just to monitor how HR groups, security groups and certainly legal groups are talking about this issue, and particularly employment lawyers as we evolve through 2022. 2022, I think, is going to be a seminal year to determine how do we figure out or how do we manage these? And then, what are the courts say about it in terms of our responsibilities as leaders, managers and employers? Great question. Shane, do you want me to continue here, or do you want to do another question? What do you think?

Shane McNally: [00:39:48] Yeah, I think let’s keep it rolling because I think one of the questions may actually be answered in the next coming slides. So, I think let’s keep rolling with it. And if we have some more time, we’ll answer some more at the end.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:39:59] Perfect. And my goal is to get through these next slides in about eight minutes. I’m not going to do a deep dive because again, all of you are probably from different backgrounds, you might be from different industries, you might have different resources available or not available, different size organizations. So, we’re kind of hitting this with a broad brush stroke.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:40:18] So, we talked about trends, 2021 and 2022. We talked about eight specific trends, both positive things but also some pain points. So, this is where I get into, okay, what do we do about it? What do we do? How do we support mental health and wellbeing in a way that’s effective and with accessible resources. I’m going to say it again, in this next year, it’s all about people. They are our greatest asset. They certainly should be considered your greatest asset. And the CEOs in the Deloitte study, and even the Microsoft study, have both talked about that. It’s talent in every form. That is the goal. For those of us that remember, I think it was the Bill Clinton, Ross Perot, even before Ross Perot and George H. Bush, the old saying, “It’s taxes, stupid” or “It’s about taxes,” well, my mantra this year is, “It’s about the people, stupid.” Not that people are stupid, but it’s all about the people. It’s about your talent – attracting them, hiring them, developing them, retaining them and so on. It’s key.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:41:24] One thing we’re all going to have to do better is we’re going to have to expand our toolbox in terms of resources, and we’re going to have to get out of siloed thinking in terms of how we handle problems. Historically, a lot of this has been dumped on HR. Maybe some of it’s been dumped on security if it’s a threat or risk issue. And then, in some cases, it might be dumped on legal if you have a legal team internally or maybe you have an ad hoc external legal team. The problem is, is we need to expand the dilemma. Most companies, if you go back pre-COVID, they basically had a hammer in the toolbox. And if you had a nail, great; they had a hammer. And if you had a screw, they had a hammer. And if you had something else, if you needed to glue something, they had a hammer. We need to expand the toolbox in terms of the resources that we have available to us.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:42:21] Part of that process is — sorry, I missed. I didn’t forward some of the slides. That’s the CEO slide. That’s a toolbox slide. Now, I’m caught up. I’m sorry about that.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:42:32] We need to also, I believe, strongly have a conceptual shift from looking at dealing with the behaviors of concern from a perspective of adversarial and contentious to collaborative and supportive. Now, that doesn’t mean there are times that we don’t need to exit somebody from our organization. That happens. But we can do it in a way that we still are trying to maximize a supportive engagement with that person. So, we want to engage people from end to end. A lot of times, people – I do a lot of hostile terminations. I don’t personally, but I help navigate them, I should say. People ask me after the termination, when do you start mitigating a hostile termination? When does it begin? When do you really start doing it?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:43:20] And I always say, managing a hostile termination begins the day you hire that person. I don’t care if it’s 10 years ago. The day you hire them, the way you want to award them, the way you try to be supportive, and fair and equitable, the way you engage them with respect and dignity, and how you’ve done that, whether it’s three months or three years or 30 years, sets the tone for how you’re going to deal with that when things get ugly at the back end. So, it’s an engagement process end to end. We want to educate people on that process, each step, what resources do we have available, how do we help them. We want to have a general message of support to people all through the process. And we want to align what resources we do have beyond the intervention is a singular event. View it as a process of intervening.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:44:09] Now, none of this means that if somebody does something egregious at your workplace that they don’t need to be exited. Not at all. Sometimes, people need to be exited. But can we do it in a way that maximizes support, in a way that they can look forward in their life and not look backward with a sense of anger and resentment, and in some cases, vengeance? So, that’s one of the keys.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:44:30] Again, I talked about the singular event. Get away from that and move it into an engaged process. And that process begins with the first time I sit you down and say, “I’m going to give you an informal, non-official verbal coaching session. That’s where it starts. And I’m doing it because I want to help you get better and I want you to develop. But it’s your choice to develop. Are you going to take the help or not? And then, over time, it could escalate to the point that I have to let you go. But that process is going to be a process. It’s not going to be a singular event.”

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:45:03] Another thing to consider, one of the dilemmas is that all the old behaviors of concern haven’t gone away. Many of these have even exacerbated if you look over the past year or two. Various levels of emotional crisis, we know depression is up threefold. Anxiety is up fourfold. And this is across the general population. Suicide threats, anger, hostility, inclusion, diversity and inclusion issues, violence threats, domestic violence, all of these issues are not — some are growing, some are neutral or the same that they were a couple of years ago, but here’s what’s different, the average worker is more aware of these issues, and they’re more aware of when they’re struggling. That doesn’t mean they’re coming forward. They may not feel safe coming forward, but they’re more aware of that, which means, as leaders, we are kind of beholden to try to do something about these. We can’t put our heads in the sand and just play like it’s an ostrich. So, we have to be aware of what these issues are as much, if not more than ever, and still try to navigate them with all the pain points I’ve also talked about.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:46:12] So, how do we do this? Well, we move towards a continuum of service support. And there’s a number of key offerings. And what we want to do here is we want to do these, not — I’ll say it better. We don’t want to be siloed in how we handle these. By the way, this is not exhaustive. Human resources, management, meaning just management at all levels, evaluation options. Does somebody need fitness for duty? Do we need to employ pre-employment screens on the front end? Do people need substance abuse support, or counseling, or evaluations? Do people need performance coaching or other types of performance coaching or enhancement? Mentoring? EDP support services, engagement and treatment providers for those individuals that need that, whether temporary or long-term. And obviously, we need to engage legal because there’s risk involved from the business perspective. Vocational services in some cases. Benefit and leave options, which is kind of a wing, if you will, of HR. All of these are key offerings, and it’s important because when all of these are working together, and they’re not siloed, that creates an environment in which the person, the employee, feels engaged, they feel supported. And again, supported doesn’t mean I’m going to stay here forever, but it means we’re maximizing the chance that I can get back to thriving and get my life back in a way that it’s a win/win.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:47:40] I often will say to my personal team at R3, my ultimate goal as a manager, as a leader is to help you thrive, whatever that may be, bring mentoring, bring guidance, bring support. I do not hit that goal every day. I have stressful days. I have busy days given the nature of my role as medical director that I do not live up to that promise. That’s my goal. But here’s the other part of the goal is I want to maximize that I can do all of that while you’re still with R3. If I can’t, and you go on, and you thrive somewhere else, great, I’m going to be happy for you as a colleague, and a friend, and a professional. But my goal is to try to maximize that internally. And that’s part of that engagement process as we navigate through this.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:48:29] So, I’m going to talk briefly here about leadership strategies. And then, we’re going to wrap up with probably about 10 minutes worth of questions if we have them. So, as leaders — and by the way, when I say leaders, you could be leader of a three-person team or you could be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. These apply. These apply to your Little League team, frankly, both on the parents and on the kids. First is champion and behavioral health at the top. If we are not modeling – and when I say modeling behavioral health, I don’t mean I am perfect and I’m living my best life every day. I’m not talking about living in an Instagram kind of visual life, which is often fake. I’m talking about champion support for behavioral health. And as leaders, sometimes, that means even admitting our own vulnerabilities or our own need to pursue our own resources. Now, self-disclosure is something that can be tricky. I’m not saying everyone should do that, but however you need to champion it, please do so as a leader.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:49:26] Foster open and clear communication. I often say this fear and anxiety level a vacuum, it’s important that we fill that vacuum to understand what is our company’s mission, what is our value towards behavioral health, and how are we going to support people? Engage your employees. Get to know them. Reach out to them. Don’t be distant as best you can. Model strength and vulnerability. How do you do that? Well, bottling strength isn’t just about being strong all the time. The problem, if you’re strong all the time as a leader, you give the impression, even if you don’t mean to, that your workers should be strong all the time. There’s something okay about stumbling because every time we stumble, we have to get back up. And to me, that’s the true modeling of the vulnerability from which strength comes from. It’s that “Yes, I had struggles.”

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:50:15] Someone said to me recently, and I love this quote, “You’re having a bad day. You’re not having a bad life.” So, there’s times that I will tell my folks, “I’m in a really crappy place today, but I’m going to get through it, and this is what I’m doing to get through it.” I am modeling the getting back up; I am not modeling being perfect all the time because none of us are.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:50:36] Know thyself and assess thyself. Again, this goes for organizations, it goes for teams, and it goes for individuals. Constantly looking at ourselves of how do we better ourselves, how do we improve? Know you’re lane. Now, this is organizationally. So, when outside of your lane, consultant an expert. If you don’t have internal legal, and you get up to a point where you need legal consultation, know who to go to. If you’re dealing with a threat mitigation situation, and you don’t deal with that regularly, reach out. I mean, a huge part of what I do as I sit on threat teams as an external ad hoc member and help them navigate hostility issues at their workplace because they’re not big enough or for many reasons, they don’t have an internal expert. That’s fine. Whatever the issue may be, is know your expertise, shine in that, and then know what are the other things you want to pursue.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:51:29] And be bold. If you look at the pain points that I talked about this this past hour, and if you look at what those are, and the challenges ahead, and in many ways, I’m going to say organizations have never been through this kind of accelerated revolutionary change, probably since early in the industrial revolution. We have to be bold. We have to be, to come up with solutions that are going to push us through into whatever the next normal is going to be on the back end of this, whether it’s a year, or two, or three years from now.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:52:10] So, in closing, and then we’ll get to some questions, one of my favorites, Brene Brown, I imagine many of you have seen or know of her, there’s a lot of research and thought leadership on vulnerability, and growth, and intimacy and so on, this quote sums it for me – and I’m adding employees to the mix because I think there’s accountability on all sides here – “Leaders and employees must either invest a reasonable amount of time trying to manage fears and feelings now or squander an unreasonable amount of time trying to manage ineffective and unproductive behavior later.” So, we are going to pay now or later in terms of time, and change, and effort. I think it’s better to do that on the front end and help develop people, especially given the trends that I’ve talked about today and then pain points. Doing that now versus doing that later in a crisis mode and a purely reactive mode.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:53:06] So, with that, I want to thank you for your time and I want to open it up for questions. For the last — I’ve got about six or seven minutes here.

Shane McNally: [00:53:14] Yeah, yeah, perfect. So, we do have a few minutes. We do have a quite a few questions that have come in as well. So, this is great. Before we hop into the questions, I just want to invite everybody to our next webinar, it’ll be our first one of 2022, and it’ll be on January 18th. This webinar will be taking a look at personal stress, and how it can affect our business life, and figuring out ways to mitigate that disruption. So, that webinar is also pending approval for one PDC credit through that SHRM recertification program we mentioned earlier, and more information is to come on that in the future.

Shane McNally: [00:53:48] So, with the few minutes we have remaining, let’s get started with a few questions, Dr. Vergolias. The first one here, there seems to be a lot of people celebrating remote work, but do you think they are underestimating the negative impact being remote has on their mental health and social health?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:54:07] That’s a great — that’s an astute question, and I do. I do. I think — let me give you a quick example. I’ve been working remote with R3 for 10 years, and I did fine. And when the pandemic hit, everything changed, and it changed because everyone else was working remote. And when everyone else shifted, what I found is that my day didn’t end cleanly anymore. It’s just kind of evolved. There was never an off. And what’s odd is I should have been a master at this. But the environment, the context shifted, and I needed to shift with it.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:54:43] So, I do think there’s a lot of people that are either not aware or they’re aware and they’re struggling. One of the biggest things I do is that — so, I’m going to wrap this up in a few minutes. I got about another hour and a half or so. And every day, I change what I’m wearing. I get out of whatever — because whatever I’m wearing to during the day is my work clothes, and I change. And I literally consciously make a transition. I also try not to do a lot of non-business work in this room. This is my work office. Don’t always hit that goal. So, those are the kind of things that I think are important. And I think that’s a really, really astute question. Thank you.

Shane McNally: [00:55:24] Perfect. The next one here, you mentioned that leaders were still looking forward to 2022, but a large margin of employees may not feel that way. How can you tell if your employees are feeling unhappy in their position?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:55:39] So, two things. One, and this is going to sound really like sophomoric, so excuse me, but ask them. Ask them. Do it in an anonymous way, so they don’t feel threatened. And then, listen to the input. And then, reflect it back, whether it’s a town hall, whether it’s a one-on-one discussion, a team discussion. And whatever leadership you are — I mean, a CEO can’t have discussions with everybody in the company, typically, but whatever level of leadership you might be showing, ask them what those concerns are, really convey you’ve heard them, share them back in a way that conveys you’ve heard them, and then try to come up with some solutions that can attest or, I’m sorry, that can attend to what those needs might be. Start with that. And if you start with that alone, you’re going to be ahead, I think, of 75% of the organizations out there.

Shane McNally: [00:56:37] All right, the next one here. How important is it for employers to have a 24-hour employee assistance program?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:56:49] You know, I think it’s important to have, at least, access to resources. It really depends on your organizational culture, the size, and to what degree you feel your organization needs that level of support. And I know that is a very murky statement, but this is where the type of intervention and the scope really depends on the kind of organization that you have. What I will say is emotional crises do not happen 9:00 to 5:00. And anyone that’s in HR listening today is probably nodding your head. And they tend to happen at 4:30 on a Friday, but they don’t happen 9:00 to 5:00. And so, if we’re going to model and convey a true sense of support and wellbeing, it’s important, at least, to have available resources.

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:57:42] Now, that doesn’t mean you’re spending $3 million a year for a 24/7, 365 EAP response. It might be that you’re simply letting people know in their given work area, what are the local resources for mental health? Can we engage with those resources in other ways. Can we can we ally in some way, make allies or make connections with them? There’s some creative ways to do this, but I do think it’s important to convey that degree of support.

Shane McNally: [00:58:14] All right. And I think we have time for just one more question here, and this one came in right near the beginning. Other than the healthcare industry, what industry do you think has been hit the hardest over the last two years?

Dr. George Vergolias: [00:58:27] That’s a good question. I’d have to say the service sector industry just because of forced closures, reduction in patrons, just general service. It could be restaurants, it could be bars, it could be food, various types of food, hotels, they’ve just been so impacted. But what’s hard is that there’s a ripple effect. The other flip side is all the people that are stocking shelves and the trucker industry, and those that run trains and work at the port authorities on the supply chain, they’ve had the opposite effect of needing to do triple, quadruple time. So, it’s tough, but there’s been a number of those sectors. Those are the two that come to mind, one with no business, and one with an insane amount of over business, if you will. Amazon, those types of roles.

Shane McNally: [00:59:26] Yeah, absolutely. Well, so that will be the top of the hour for this webinar today. So, as a reminder to everyone, you can find more resources under our resource tab. You’ll be able to find our upcoming webinars, our recent webinars that you can watch on demand, which will shortly include today’s webinar as well.

Shane McNally: [00:59:45] As we’ve heard from Dr. Vergolias, 2022 is going to be a year that we’ll see some changes going forward and the importance of employee wellbeing. R3 Continuum can help to ensure your employee wellbeing program is offering the right level of behavioral health support by tailoring solutions to fit the unique challenges of your workplace. Learn more about R3 Continuum services and contact us at www.r3c.com or email us directly at info@r3c.com.

 

Show Underwriter

R3 Continuum (R3c) is a global leader in workplace behavioral health and security solutions. R3c helps ensure the psychological and physical safety of organizations and their people in today’s ever-changing and often unpredictable world. Through their continuum of tailored solutions, including evaluations, crisis response, executive optimization, protective services, and more, they help organizations maintain and cultivate a workplace of wellbeing so that their people can thrive. Learn more about R3c at www.r3c.com.

R3 Continuum is the underwriter of Workplace MVP, a show which celebrates the everyday heroes–Workplace Most Valuable Professionals–in human resources, risk management, security, business continuity, and the C-suite who resolutely labor for the well-being of employees in their care, readying the workplace for and planning responses to disruption.

Connect with R3 Continuum:  Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter

Tagged With: Dr. George Vergolias, employee mental health, employee well-being, employee wellness, hybrid work, labor shortage, R3 Continuum, teleHealth, wellness in the workplace, Workplace MVP

Dumb Things Smart Dentists Do, with Dr. Richard Madow, The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success

December 31, 2021 by John Ray

The Madow Center
Dental Law Radio
Dumb Things Smart Dentists Do, with Dr. Richard Madow, The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

Madow Center

Dumb Things Smart Dentists Do, with Dr. Richard Madow, The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success (Dental Law Radio, Episode 29)

Dentists, how does the phone get answered in your practice? Is your fascination with innovative technology actually hindering your ability to serve patients? A dentist himself, Richard Madow of The Madow Center joined host Stuart Oberman to cover some of the things that otherwise smart dentists do or allow to happen which are harmful to the practice. Dental Law Radio is underwritten and presented by Oberman Law Firm and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Dr. Richard Madow, Co-Founder, The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success

Dr. Richard Madow, Co-Founder, The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success

In 1989, Dr. Richard Madow along with his brother Dr. David Madow founded The Madow Center For Dental Practice Success with the goal of helping their fellow dentists achieve success and happiness in their practices. Having been named a “Leader in Dental Consulting” by Dentistry Today for many years running, his publications, articles, and blogs are some of the most popular in the dental profession and have reached over 100,000 practices across the world!

Known for his hilarious and spontaneous style, Rich has lectured to standing room only crowds in practically every major city in The United States and Canada, teaching dentists and team members how to enjoy their careers, supercharge their practices, define and create their own personal success, increase profitability, and have more fun than ever before.

The Madow Center For Dental Practice Success has a unique approach to coaching – instead of modules and pre-written programs, each practice is individually guided to overcome their weaknesses and grow their strengths in order to obtain greater income levels and enjoy dentistry more. For more information, please check out www.madow.com

On a personal level, Rich is a life-long and award-winning musician, having performed in many venues across North America. He is currently writing and recording new material, and his latest album, “Coming Through With Static,” can be found on Spotify, Apple Music, and all of the regular streaming sites.

Among his other achievements, Rich’s book, Is Your Frog Boiling, was an Amazon bestseller for two full days, and he has traveled to 56 countries.

Company website | LinkedIn

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, it’s time for Dental Law Radio. Dental Law Radio is brought to you by Oberman Law Firm, a leading dental-centric law firm serving dental clients on a local, regional and national basis. Now, here’s your host, Stuart Oberman.

Stuart Oberman: [00:00:26] Welcome everyone to Dental Law Radio. We are back, back, back, back. We have an extraordinary guest today. I would say, one of the best practice consultants in the country that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting and consulting with in different areas. And our clients are happy when they use this particular guest. The one, the only Dr. Richard Madow today is going to join us and he’s going to embark on his experiences.

Stuart Oberman: [00:00:59] Now, a little background on Dr. Madow. So, he is the co-founder of the Madow Center for Dental Practice Success. And that is an extraordinary, extraordinary organization. And he will provide some information after our podcast today. And the interesting part is Richard has been labeled as the Leader in Dental Consulting by Dentistry Today, which I firmly believe. I’ve had the absolute pleasure of sponsoring some events that he’s been at. And I will tell you, the reception that he receives from his doctors is extraordinary. The presentation is spontaneous and hilarious. And I really am amazed that he has spoken and presented, probably, in just about every major city in the United States and Canada. And I know what he’s done for his doctors through the years, the careers, and they supercharged their practices, and they redefined who they are, and it creates success and and profitability, which is, sometimes, it’s very hard to do for our doctors.

Stuart Oberman: [00:02:14] And on a personal note, Richard is a lifelong award-winning musician. And for those that can see his guitar on the background there, I know he’s also talented. And I’ve actually have seen him play in his presentations, and I found that he was playing the piano this morning. So, not only is he a great consultant, but he is a published musician. And Richard, welcome. Welcome to the show today. Thank you so much for joining us. I know you are very busy.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:02:45] Oh, well, thanks so much for that introduction. That was really, really nice. I appreciate it, Stuart. And without sounding too much like we’re rubbing each other’s backs here, I want to congratulate you in what you’ve done over the years. Dentists, there aren’t that many times in our careers where we need to consult with a good lawyer by purchasing a practice, partnership agreement, selling a practice, et cetera, et cetera. And so many dentists make the mistake of going to a lawyer who’s a good lawyer but isn’t involved strictly in dentistry. So, what you’ve done for dentist, building your firm like that, taking the time to learn all the nuances and special things about dentists and what makes us tick, and how we’re so weird and crazy, and all those things just has been so responsible for your great success in helping dentists across the country. So, thanks for doing that. Congratulations on doing that.

Stuart Oberman: [00:03:35] Well, thank you for that kind information there, and it’s always appreciated. And I know that you’ve been deep in the industry for many years. And I know we could probably talk for seven days on what you’ve run across. But I want to cover a really main topic, and I know that you’re an expert on this area. I want to know point blank, dumb things that smart dentists do. We all have those clients that are absolutely brilliant, the leaders, but I want to hear what you have discovered. What are some of the dumb things that these guys do on a daily basis? And I know you could talk seven days on this, but I know you got some great things. So, tell me a little bit about what you’re seeing now out there.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:04:20] Yeah, it’s a great question. And look, I’ve done a lot of dumb things. Even though I’m no longer practicing, I had a practice for many, many years, built it up from actually a bankrupt practice that I purchased. So, it was below a scratch practice because the practice had debt when I took over and grew into a super successful practice, I’m proud to say, but I did so many dumb things along the way. And then, of course, I’ve been in, geez, hundreds and thousands of dental practices, spoken to tens of thousands of dentists and team members. And dentists are so smart. They’re so nice. They’re so cool. We really want to help people, but we’ve also done so many dumb things. So, since you asked, I thought of a few. And I’d love to share them with you and your listeners.

Stuart Oberman: [00:05:04] Yeah, tell me what you think? Give me five or six of the dumbest things that they’ve done.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:05:10] Okay, here’s one. Every time — I wouldn’t say every time, maybe 85% of the time when a dentist contacts the Madow Center about consulting, or coaching, or whatever the heck you want to call it, how can we make their practice better? One of the things they always say to us is we need more new patients. We need more new patients. It’s like a mantra, like a fix. We need more new patients. And new patients are great. And let’s face it, without new patients, your practice will plateau or go downhill.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:05:38] But invariably, every single time we’ll run a data analysis of their practice and find that sure, they can use some new patients, but they are losing patients more quickly than they could ever get new patients in the practice. These patients have been in. They, for some reason, responded to something you’ve done – a referral, a marketing piece, they drove by and saw your big, beautiful sign. They made the effort to recognize your practice – call, come in, have an examination. And then, they just drop off the face of the Earth. And practices have hundreds or thousands of these people who have fallen through the cracks, fallen into the black hole, walked out the back door, whatever you want to call them.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:06:23] And these are people who already know about your practice. They probably like you. They’ve probably already had an examination, maybe even treatment proposed. And our systems are letting them drop off the face of the Earth. And it’s our fault as dentists, because we don’t have the proper systems and protocols to track people and know how to call them to get them back in. And I don’t just mean calling and saying, “You’re overdue for your recall. Do you want to schedule?” That doesn’t work. We’ve got to really know how to do this. But we’ve got these pools of existing patients that have become forgotten people. And instead, we always want to know about the new patients.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:06:58] It’s so much easier and so much more cost effective to get these patients back in who have already come to our practice; yet, we tend to neglect them. Not as sexy maybe as getting a new patient in the door, but so much easier, so much more cost effective. That’s a dumb thing that smart dentists do.

Stuart Oberman: [00:07:14] Now, you have a whole program regarding this particular matter. The fixer, am I right? Well, you’ve got a whole program dedicated to this.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:07:23] Well, we do. When we work with a practice, we teach them exactly what to do and how to. And let’s face it, sometimes, you look at the data and say, “Well, this patient, they were in, whatever, four years ago. For some reason, they dropped off the face of the Earth, and we don’t think we’re going to be able to bring them back.” But we help practices identify who to start working with first, who are the best. And it’s usually people who are more recent. I mean, once somebody has been gone for four or five years, they’re tougher; although, they do come back. It’s hard to believe, but some people go five years between dental appointments, as gross as that sounds.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:07:56] But you need to have the systems, the protocols to get these people back in. And it’s usually treating them as a real person, not just sending some generic email or text, “You’re 18 months overdue, would you like-” But actually calling them, and chatting with them and saying, “Hey, we haven’t seen you for a while. Last time you were in, you were getting ready,” and I’m just winging this here, “But getting ready for knee replacement surgery. How’d that go? How are you feeling? It’s time you come back because when you saw Becky, our great hygienist, she noticed there were some areas of concern, and we really need to make sure that your teeth are healthy,” whatever. Just a personalized conversation with every single person, rather than some generic throw-spaghetti-against-the-wall-strategy. And that’s how we get people back into your practice.

Stuart Oberman: [00:08:40] Phones, phones, phones. Tell me about doctor not answering phones.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:08:46] Dumb thing number two. What a great segue, Stuart. I really appreciate that. Dumb thing number two. We do so much, and this is kind of shifting from patients who have slipped through the cracks to new patients, or maybe patients who you’ve contacted, and you have been in trouble — I mean, you’re having trouble getting a hold of them. And then, what happens? You guys are in Metro Atlanta, right? Where’s there like a dentist every square foot there? I mean, it’s the same where I’m here in Baltimore.

Stuart Oberman: [00:09:14] Six feet.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:09:14] Yeah, it’s unbelievable, isn’t it? And for some reason, somebody picks up the phone and decides to call your practice one day. It’s a great moment. And what happens? They call, and we don’t answer the phone. Now, in our live seminars, we used to do live secret shopper calls, and I’ve done tens of thousands of secret shopper calls personally. We would call dental offices live during our seminars from that area to see how they handled a potential new patient call. And we stopped doing them live, not because we embarrass somebody in front of a whole group of 200 people, and they started crying; not because we were sued for defamation because we embarrassed the dentist in front of their colleagues. Now, all of those things did actually happen, but that’s not why we stopped doing it. We stopped doing it live because 50% of the time, the phone wasn’t being answered during normal business hours.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:10:07] I mean, this is ridiculous. A potential new patient or patient who has been — you tried to bring that patient back into the fold calls your office and they get a voicemail. If you’re hearing this voicemail during regular business hours, it means we’re busy seeing other patients. No, no, no. Unacceptable. Think about it. A patient, a new patient or a recall patient, they’re nervous, they’re tense, they probably don’t want to be there, they’re looking for any excuse not to come in. They finally make the effort to call your office and they’re going to get a voicemail during normal business hours; totally unacceptable. Totally unacceptable.

Stuart Oberman: [00:10:44] So, you say a lot of seminars, you actually teach these guys how to answer the phones?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:10:48] Oh, I’ve spent a ton of time during our live seminars talking about proper phone technique, absolutely.

Stuart Oberman: [00:10:52] Are they that bad at it? They actually have a lot of setup. I mean, you said 50%, that’s amazing. I mean, that’s-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:11:01] I never said, don’t answer the phone at all. And once they do answer the phone, I’d say 90% of the people that actually answer do not know the proper way to get a patient off the phone and into the appointment book. They know how to get them off the phone, but not into the appointment book. So, yeah, there’s a lot that goes into it, for sure.

Stuart Oberman: [00:11:19] Well, a lot of times – and I want you to talk about this, and this may be on your agenda, but I hear the expression all the time, “Buy it and they will come.” What does that mean in a dental practice? I never understood that.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:11:35] Oh, well, that’s the third dumb thing that smart dentists do. But if you don’t mind, I just want to get back to the phone thing for one quick second. Then, we’ll talk about that because I care about this so much. Again, it’s probably an hour and a half to two-hour segment in our live seminars or webinars talking about proper phone technique, and this part of our discussion with this one thing. When a patient calls and says something that we don’t like, “How much is a cleaning? Do you take my insurance?” whatever, maybe we don’t like those particular questions, but they’re calling for a reason.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:12:05] And the reason is out of all the dental practices in your area, whether it’s Metro Atlanta or a rural area in Kansas where there aren’t that many dentists, they called your office because they want to come in. So, every call needs to be ended asking the patient to come in and not just saying, “Would you like to make an appointment?” but offering too good times. “We’d love to see you as a new patient in our practice. We can see you tomorrow at 3:30 p.m. If that’s not convenient for you. We’ve got Tuesday at 11 30 a.m. Which works best?” Again, 90% of these calls end with the patient never being offered an appointment. So, I just want you to get that in there before we move on to buy it and they will come, which is another favorite dumb thing of mine.

Stuart Oberman: [00:12:48] I hear that all the time, and I don’t know what that means.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:12:51] Buy and they will come. Well, when I say buy it and they will come, again, when a dentist contacts us at the Madow Center, it’s because they want to improve their practice. And also, dentists go to large dental conventions because they want to improve their practice. Down there in Atlanta, you’ve got to Hinman, one of the best meetings in the world. It could be the Chicago Midwinter, or the ADA, or maybe more than likely a smaller regional meeting. Every state has them and every state agency has them. And you go there to learn, and you go there to improve your practice. And one of the things we love doing as dentists because we love gadgets and we love touching things is we love going to that exhibit hall because all the latest and greatest equipment in tech is there, and it’s all shiny and fun. It’s also very costly.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:13:37] And one of the mistakes dentists fall into is they’re looking for ways to improve their practice, and they wind up getting sucked into buying a piece of equipment that’s going to put them in $80,000 to $100,000 worth of debt with the promise from this salesperson, this highly commissioned salesperson, that if you buy this object, people will flock to your practice. It’s all you have to do. Just buy this. And I’m not a Luddite. I’m not saying tech is bad. Tech is great. Cone beam imaging is phenomenal. Being able to have a crown made in your office the same day, if you’re skilled enough to do it, that’s a big if, but if you are skilled enough to do, it is incredible. But patients won’t come into your practice because you bought the latest and greatest technology no matter what these salespeople say. They’re saying buy it and they will come, but it’s just not true. It’s back to basics of providing a memorable experience.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:14:32] Phone tech, we were talking about. Treating every patient incredibly well. I mean, these are things we teach all the time. That’s what gets people to come into your office to stay, to get treatment accepted, to refer. It’s not because you’ve got the best cone beam technology. And again, I’m not saying you shouldn’t have this, it helps us practice better, but only if you can afford it, only if you’re not going to go into debt. Don’t think that this technology is going to bring you more patients because it just simply won’t. Now, you guys deal with — you see the down and dirty, you see people’s balance sheets. I’ll bet you’ve seen dentists who are in horrible debt. And it’s just so sad, isn’t it?

Stuart Oberman: [00:15:10] Well, you’ve seen this, and probably there’s only 10% of dentists out there that retire at 65. The rest of them have got to work, they’ve got to work, and they got to work, which is-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:15:20] It’s scary, isn’t it?

Stuart Oberman: [00:15:22] It really is sad. It really, really, really. So, why do they buy this equipment? I mean, why do they buy that? Why do they buy a hundred-thousand piece of equipment? Why?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:15:32] Well, first of all, it’s fun. Let’s face it, we’re dentists, we love doing fun things that are technologically advanced and that our patients will love. So, we buy because, in a way – and this is not a bad thing, I guess – it keeps our batteries charge. You’re a little burnt out, you’re sick of the mundane. Well, this is a cool thing. I can do more procedures. I can do my endo more accurately, whatever. That’s one of the reasons.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:15:53] But again, ask them to buy and they will come philosophy, which is not true, a lot of times we buy dental technology because we think it will enhance our bottom line. Our patients are going to say yes to everything we proposed. I always say, you talk about CEREC, which if you’re not a dentist and you’re listening, it’s a technology where instead of having a crown be to a point – and so you prepare the crown, then you send the impression to a lab, then the crown comes back, it’s cemented in two weeks later – a CEREC technology will allow you to do the crown same day because you make the crown right in your office.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:16:27] Well, this is fun, but it’s expensive. And as I always say, this is a patient talking, “I’ll only get that crown if you can do it in one day,” said no patient ever. Patients aren’t going to leave you or say no because you don’t have the latest technology. They’ll leave you and say no because you’re not making them feel special. You’re not providing a great patient experience. That’s why patients believe you’re running late all the time. You’re not getting the phone and it’s going to voicemail. That’s why patients leave, not because of the technology you have. So, again, nothing against outstanding equipment, and supplies and all those things in your office, but it’s not going to bring in more new patients. And as you said, Stu, only 10% of dentists is gonna retire at 65. Well, that’s sad. That’s pathetic. And a lot of times, it’s because of the tremendous amount of debt they’ve incurred. Let’s face it.

Stuart Oberman: [00:17:17] Yeah. Number four, give me your number four. Give me your number four.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:17:21] Okay, good. Yeah, let’s keep rocking here. This is fun. Something the dentists do all the time is they try to sell dentistry. They try to sell dentistry. And we take these courses, and I’ve taken them myself – not proud to say – where it’s like a weekend workshop, and we’re going to teach you how to sell dentistry. And by the time you leave here, your patients are going to say yes to all their treatment.

Stuart Oberman: [00:17:46] My patient coordinator is not selling enough dentistry, right?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:17:50] Right, exactly. Here’s the problem – if my patient care coordinator could just sell more dentistry, everything will be great. So, you take her or him to this course, and then you come out, and you become a used car salesman, and you’re using these high-pressure techniques to get your patients to say yes to dentistry. I mean, it’s essentially like — and think about it, patients that come into your dental practice as a new patient, typically, they’re calling your office because they’ll say, like, “I chipped a tooth, I’m overdue for a cleaning. I’m having a little discomfort. I noticed my gums are sensitive and bleeding a little bit,” whatever, “I got new insurance.” These are the reasons that patients come into our office.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:18:28] And many times, they need a ton of treatment. They need $12,000 worth of treatment or $15,000 worth of treatment. And that’s great, and we can help them become healthy again. But these high-pressure treatment acceptance courses pretty much say, “Okay, you do the exam. You get the patient through your consultation room, and you tie them to the chair, and you browbeat them until they say yes.”

Stuart Oberman: [00:18:50] Yeah.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:18:51] That’s going against human nature. That’s not the way it works, and we’re trying to sell them on this dentistry. And it’s not about selling. It’s about establishing the relationship. It’s about having the patient trust you, and bond with you, and kind of become your friend in a way and say, “Well, you know what? I trust this office. I know they’re telling me the truth. I know it’s not because the dentist has five kids in private school. So, it’s for my health, and I’m going to say yes.” But when we pressure our patients to try to sell dentistry, well, every now and then somebody says yes, and you feel like you’re the greatest patient presentation master in the world-

Stuart Oberman: [00:19:28] But don’t patients pick that up, though? I mean, they pick that up, don’t they?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:19:32] I totally agree.

Stuart Oberman: [00:19:33] They know when they’re being sold.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:19:35] I totally agree. The great thing about dentistry, or there are many great things about dentistry, but one of the great things about dentistry is that we profit the most when we get our patients in good dental health. It’s a true win-win. Other professions, they profit the most when they’re doing something that maybe isn’t so great for their customer or maybe isn’t so great for their client, but in dentistry, we make the most money when our patients are in the best state of dental health. So, that’s great. So, let’s use that to our advantage. We shouldn’t have to pressure people into saying yes to treatment. We should educate them about their dental health and get them to understand that, “Hey, if we do this, you’re going to be in better health.”

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:20:13] So, one of the things I always like to say is it’s not when the patient says yes, it’s where they say yes to getting their dentistry done. In other words, we shouldn’t feel like we have to get them to say yes in the first visit. What we should feel like is that we’re going to make them comfortable enough that when they finally do say yes, it’s in our office and not somebody else’s office because we scared the crap out of them. And it’s not about getting them to say yes to everything all at once. Some patients need a year, two years, three years or more to get all their treatment completed for financial reasons, for scheduling reasons, for whatever reason. So, we need to welcome that. We need to work with our patients to make things the most comfortable for them. And then, they’ll get their treatment done eventually, but they’ll get it done in your office and not someone else’s because we didn’t scare them away by selling, selling, selling.

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:04] That’s a great point. Almost too much selling can drive away patients. That’s a great point. I never thought about. That’s a great point.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:11] Yeah. It’s funny, I took this this fancy schmancy treatment planning course many years ago, and the guy kept-

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:19] When you were a young kid, right?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:21] What’s that?

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:22] When you were a young kid?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:22] When I was a young kid. Right, when I was a young buck. And they kept saying, “Well-” And I’ll do it with my bad Texas accent, but this guy had a strong Texan accent. He would say, “You got to ask somebody 12 times until they say yes.” And I’d be like, “Well, what are you talking about?” “Is this a treatment you would like?” “No, no, no. I can’t afford that right now. I’m not ready.” “Well, that’s okay. I’ve got 11 more times. Is this the treatment you would like?” “No.” And like, it doesn’t work. It’s high pressure. It drives people nuts, and they run away screaming. So, yeah, we can’t sell it. It’s all about trust. It’s really all about trust.

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:54] Give me number five. Give me a number five.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:56] Okay, number five. There’s an expression, I think it’s an expression in the South, and that is “Dance with who brung you.” And dentists tend to ignore this advice so many times. And I’ll give you maybe two main categories of what dentists do. Dentists will be frustrated or a little bored and burnt out, not really earning the amount of money they’d like, so they get distracted, like, “Oh, I’m going to invest in my cousin’s brewpub. That should be fun,” or “I’m going to sell this multilevel marketing lotion in my office. If I get five patients to do it, and they get five, they each get five, and then they each get five, and then they each get five,” despite the fact that mathematically this is impossible, “I’m going to be a millionaire selling overpriced hand lotion, and I can retire from dentistry.” And we get distracted.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:22:43] But dentistry is who brung us. I mean, there are a few things that we could do better for our career and have a great dental practice, and we get distracted by these other things. And that’s one way of not dancing with who brung it. But my other way, I see this much more too, is the dentist thinks, “Well, my practice is doing okay, but I could do a lot better if I opened up a satellite practice.” And I can’t stand that term. Like what the heck is a satellite practice? One practice kind of revolves around the other practice, and if you can grab it on the right day, that’s 30 miles outside of town.

Stuart Oberman: [00:23:15] I wanna scale. I wanna scale. I want to scale. Meanwhile, your main practice is-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:23:20] Exactly

Stuart Oberman: [00:23:20] … is in the tank. So, yeah.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:23:22] Bingo! Bingo, Stuart! You’ve got it exactly. And then, what happens? The second you open your satellite practice, you’ve doubled your overhead, and you can’t be there to do all the production, so you’ve got to hire an associate. Now, you’ve tripled your overhead because you’ve got to pay this associate. And the associate’s not invested in it, they’re just biding time until they could do something better. And you’ve got more management headaches, much more overhead when you could be doing so much better if you just put all your efforts into making your one practice the absolute best it can be.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:23:56] And another example I just thought of too of not dancing with who brung you, when we’re not doing as well as we would like, we get distracted by doing these esoteric procedures. “I’m going to take this weekend warrior course and learn how to do this procedure,” when meanwhile, let’s focus on what most patients need. Patients need endo core and crown, they need scaling and root planing, they need implants and implant restoration. Let’s focus on not these esoteric crazy treatments, but focus on what patients need, doing it in one office, one office where we’re utilizing our space and our team to the maximum. That’s how you make a profit in dentistry, and that’s how you treat your patients well.

Stuart Oberman: [00:24:35] Yeah. How about one more?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:24:39] You want one more?

Stuart Oberman: [00:24:39] Yeah, give me one more. Give me one more, because there’s got to be one more. There’s got to be one.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:24:47] I wouldn’t do this. Well, I had this in mind to do this the last one, because it’s something we started talking about in the beginning when I was talking about how Oberman Law Firm is such an incredible place because you specialize in working with dentists. And I’ll say dumb thing number six is not using specialized professionals. You’ve got to have what some people call their board of directors. Every dentist needs an accountant, an attorney, a financial advisor, a lease negotiator, a web designer-

Stuart Oberman: [00:25:15] A good consultant from Baltimore.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:25:17] Exactly. A great dental coach for your practice.

Stuart Oberman: [00:25:20] From Baltimore.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:25:21] I think the Madow Center the best. But yeah, you know, there are definitely times in our careers where we need to utilize the services of a dental coach or consultant. So, all those things. But so many times we make the mistake of not going to somebody who truly specializes in dentistry. “My best friend from college is an accountant. She’s a genius. I’ve never seen somebody to be able to recite the tax codes as well as her,” and she might be, but if her practice consists of 10 restaurant owners who are clients, and then somebody who does this, and somebody who does that, well, oh yeah, but it’s all the same. It’s all tax returns. It’s all P&L statements, right? No, it’s not. Dentistry has so many nuances that you’ve got to really be a specialist to understand,

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:26:07] “Oh, you know what? My nephew, he’s a whiz with computers. He’s going to do my website and SEO.” He might be a whiz with computers, but unless he knows all the dental terminology and all the things that are specific to dentists, he’s not going to do a good job for you. Accountants, geez, they need to know everything about dental practice – what your overhead should be, what your team should be earning, what different PPO plans can offer you, all these things. And unless your accountant, or your attorney or whatever specializes in dentistry, breaths it, works with a day in and day out, they’re not going to be as effective as somebody who truly specializes in working with us.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:26:43] And might it be a little bit more expensive to use a financial planner or accountant, et cetera, who specializes in dentistry? Well, it might be, but who cares because you’re going to be the huge winner in the long run, both financially, fewer headaches, all those things that we treasure, less time, more time efficient, all those things are going to come into play when you truly use a specialized professional. So, I think a great way to do the final dumb things, since I’m talking to a truly specialized professional on your podcast.

Stuart Oberman: [00:27:14] Well, yeah. It’s amazing is that a doctor will say, “Well, I got a little bit of trouble doing a root canal.” I’m like, “Why didn’t you send that out to endo? I mean, half the endos can even find to B2 canal.” I mean, it’s amazing that we say this all the time, stay in your wheelhouse. All of a sudden, I paid $6000, went to implant course; and now, on Monday, I’m a specialist, and and I can graft anywhere, anything, any time, any place. Now, I’m good.”

Stuart Oberman: [00:27:51] Well, I’ll tell you what, and I’m sure you could probably name 70 things that our guys do on the dumb things, but this is amazing. I mean, I hope that when our doctors listen to this, they will one make note of each thing that you said because it is amazing, it is practical, it is everyday usage. You guys teach it every day. You’ve been in the trenches. You’ve been there. You’ve done that. So, this is not only from a quote consultant that has never put a hand in a mouth. You’ve actually been there and done that. It’s so I think you’ve got a whole different perspective, which a lot of the consultants and business advisors and so on have no clue about. So-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:28:39] Yeah, I like to think, Stu, there’s kind of a fraternity/sorority of dentists that we just have done some — we’ve been kicked, we know what it’s like to prep the dismissal of tooth number two on a patient that’s squirming, salivating and bleeding, we fought with insurance companies, we’ve let our teams. And there are some consultants out there, most who have never had this experience. How can they relate to it like we could? Just like using a specialized professional to have on your board of directors, your attorney, your accountant, your financial planner? It’s good to work with people who have been there, done that.

Stuart Oberman: [00:29:15] Well, I know you’ve been there, done that. And your reputation far precedes you, what you guys do on a daily basis. Richard, it is amazing, as always. Again, we could talk for seven days on this. I can’t thank you enough for, one, joining us on the podcast; and two, for what you guys do for the industry. I’ve seen it, I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve listened, and you guys do a fantastic job. So, my friend, thank you for joining us and enjoy Baltimore.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:29:45] Thanks so much. It’s my pleasure. If anybody wants to send me an email, my personal email address is rich@madow.com. I love getting emails from dentists all across the world. If you want to see what we’re doing to help other dentists, just check out our website. It’s madow.com. I love to do a chat. We don’t charge for initial visit, so to speak. I’d love to speak with you and talk about what’s going on in your practice. It’s fun and we can always help. So, thanks so much for having me.

Stuart Oberman: [00:30:18] With that being said, you guys are putting on stuff all the time. What’s your next event? What’s your next podcast? When’s your next speaker?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:30:26] Oh, geez. Well, thanks for asking. We do a podcast, it comes out two to three times a month. It’s called The Dental Practice Fixers. So, if you just go on wherever you get your podcasts – Apple, Spotify, YouTube. It’s on YouTube as well.

Stuart Oberman: [00:30:40] Where I can find your music too, right?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:30:42] Exactly. Yeah, my music is on Spotify. You can look for Richard Madow. I got my stuff in there, but look for The Dental Practice Fixers. Or if you go to our website, there’s a little drop-down for dental podcast. You can check it out there. Speaking gigs are finally coming back after the pandemic, so I’ll be in a bunch of places, I think, in the next few months – Orlando, Long Island, Arizona, Montana. I hope I’m not forgetting anything but finally getting you out there and doing some speaking gigs again. So, if I come to your neck of the woods, that would be great. Also, I just got contacted by an office in New Jersey, a large group practice, and they want me to come in and do an in-service for their team. And I’m really excited about doing that. So, we do that too. Anything you want, we’re here to help.

Stuart Oberman: [00:31:25] I hear you, man. My friend, thank you, sir. Have a fantastic weekend. Happy holidays and we’ll be talking to you soon.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:31:31] It’s great to be a guest on your podcast. Thanks so much, Stu.

Stuart Oberman: [00:31:34] Thank you, buddy.

 

About Dental Law Radio

Hosted by Stuart Oberman, a nationally recognized authority in dental law, Dental Law Radio covers legal, business, and other operating issues and topics of vital concern to dentists and dental practice owners. The show is produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX® and can be found on all the major podcast apps. The complete show archive is here.

Stuart Oberman, Oberman Law Firm

Oberman Law Firm
Stuart Oberman, host of “Dental Law Radio”

Stuart Oberman is the founder and President of Oberman Law Firm. Mr. Oberman graduated from Urbana University and received his law degree from John Marshall Law School. Mr. Oberman has been practicing law for over 25 years, and before going into private practice, Mr. Oberman was in-house counsel for a Fortune 500 Company. Mr. Oberman is widely regarded as the go-to attorney in the area of Dental Law, which includes DSO formation, corporate business structures, mergers and acquisitions, regulatory compliance, advertising regulations, HIPAA, Compliance, and employment law regulations that affect dental practices.

In addition, Mr. Oberman’s expertise in the health care industry includes advising clients in the complex regulatory landscape as it relates to telehealth and telemedicine, including compliance of corporate structures, third-party reimbursement, contract negotiations, technology, health care fraud and abuse law (Anti-Kickback Statute and the State Law), professional liability risk management, federal and state regulations.

As the long-term care industry evolves, Mr. Oberman has the knowledge and experience to guide clients in the long-term care sector with respect to corporate and regulatory matters, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities (CCRCs). In addition, Mr. Oberman’s practice also focuses on health care facility acquisitions and other changes of ownership, as well as related licensure and Medicare/Medicaid certification matters, CCRC registrations, long-term care/skilled nursing facility management, operating agreements, assisted living licensure matters, and health care joint ventures.

In addition to his expertise in the health care industry, Mr. Oberman has a nationwide practice that focuses on all facets of contractual disputes, including corporate governance, fiduciary duty, trade secrets, unfair competition, covenants not to compete, trademark and copyright infringement, fraud, and deceptive trade practices, and other business-related matters. Mr. Oberman also represents clients throughout the United States in a wide range of practice areas, including mergers & acquisitions, partnership agreements, commercial real estate, entity formation, employment law, commercial leasing, intellectual property, and HIPAA/OSHA compliance.

Mr. Oberman is a national lecturer and has published articles in the U.S. and Canada.

LinkedIn

Oberman Law Firm

Oberman Law Firm has a long history of civic service, noted national, regional, and local clients, and stands among the Southeast’s eminent and fast-growing full-service law firms. Oberman Law Firm’s areas of practice include Business Planning, Commercial & Technology Transactions, Corporate, Employment & Labor, Estate Planning, Health Care, Intellectual Property, Litigation, Privacy & Data Security, and Real Estate.

By meeting their client’s goals and becoming a trusted partner and advocate for our clients, their attorneys are recognized as legal go-getters who provide value-added service. Their attorneys understand that in a rapidly changing legal market, clients have new expectations, constantly evolving choices, and operate in an environment of heightened reputational and commercial risk.

Oberman Law Firm’s strength is its ability to solve complex legal problems by collaborating across borders and practice areas.

Connect with Oberman Law Firm:

Company website | LinkedIn | Twitter

Tagged With: client retention, Dental Law Radio, Oberman Law Firm, Richard Madow, Stuart Oberman, The Madow Center, The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success

Express Gratitude, with Bill McDermott, Host of ProfitSense

December 30, 2021 by John Ray

Gratitude
North Fulton Studio
Express Gratitude, with Bill McDermott, Host of ProfitSense
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

GratitudeExpress Gratitude, with Bill McDermott, Host of ProfitSense

On a recent episode of ProfitSense with Bill McDermott, Bill closed the show reflecting on the value of gratitude, what happens when it goes unexpressed, and more. ProfitSense with Bill McDermott is produced and broadcast by the North Fulton Studio of Business RadioX® in Alpharetta.

Bill’s commentary was taken from this episode of ProfitSense.

About ProfitSense and Your Host, Bill McDermott

Bill McDermott
Bill McDermott

ProfitSense with Bill McDermott dives into the stories behind some of Atlanta’s successful businesses and business owners and the professionals that advise them. This show helps local business leaders get the word out about the important work they’re doing to serve their market, their community, and their profession. The show is presented by McDermott Financial Solutions. McDermott Financial helps business owners improve cash flow and profitability, find financing, break through barriers to expansion and financially prepare to exit their business. The show archive can be found at profitsenseradio.com.

Bill McDermott is the Founder and CEO of McDermott Financial Solutions. When business owners want to increase their profitability, they don’t have the expertise to know where to start or what to do. Bill leverages his knowledge and relationships from 32 years as a banker to identify the hurdles getting in the way and create a plan to deliver profitability they never thought possible.

Bill currently serves as Treasurer for the Atlanta Executive Forum and has held previous positions as a board member for the Kennesaw State University Entrepreneurship Center and Gwinnett Habitat for Humanity and Treasurer for CEO NetWeavers. Bill is a graduate of Wake Forest University and he and his wife, Martha have called Atlanta home for over 40 years. Outside of work, Bill enjoys golf, traveling, and gardening.

Connect with Bill on LinkedIn and Twitter and follow McDermott Financial Solutions on LinkedIn.

Tagged With: Bill McDermott, gratitude, ProfitSense, thankful, thankfulness, The Profitability Coach

Communicating the Legacy You Want to Leave, with Anthony Chen, Host of Family Business Radio

December 30, 2021 by John Ray

Legacy
Family Business Radio
Communicating the Legacy You Want to Leave, with Anthony Chen, Host of Family Business Radio
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

Legacy

Communicating the Legacy You Want to Leave, with Anthony Chen, Host of Family Business Radio

In financial planning, Anthony Chen says that the focus is not only about the assets and how they are invested. As he discusses in this brief commentary, it is important to discover and communicate the kind of legacy an individual wants to leave. Family Business Radio is underwritten by Anthony Chen with Lighthouse Financial Network.

Anthony’s commentary was taken from this episode of Family Business Radio.

Anthony Chen, Host of Family Business Radio

Anthony Chen, Lighthouse Financial

This show is sponsored and brought to you by Anthony Chen with Lighthouse Financial Network. Securities and advisory services offered through Royal Alliance Associates, Inc. (RAA), member FINRA/SIPC. RAA is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of RAA. The main office address is 575 Broadhollow Rd. Melville, NY 11747. You can reach Anthony at 631-465-9090 ext. 5075 or by email at anthonychen@lfnllc.com.

Anthony Chen started his career in financial services with MetLife in Buffalo, NY in 2008. Born and raised in Elmhurst, Queens, he considers himself a full-blooded New Yorker while now enjoying his Atlanta, GA home. Specializing in family businesses and their owners, Anthony works to protect what is most important to them. From preserving to creating wealth, Anthony partners with CPAs and attorneys to help address all of the concerns and help clients achieve their goals. By using a combination of financial products ranging from life, disability, and long-term care insurance to many investment options through Royal Alliance. Anthony looks to be the eyes and ears for his client’s financial foundation. In his spare time, Anthony is an avid long-distance runner.

The complete show archive of Family Business Radio can be found at familybusinessradioshow.com.

Tagged With: Anthony Chen, Family Business Radio, financial legacy, investments, Lighthouse Financial Network

Decision Vision Episode 149: Should I Become More Extroverted? – An Interview with Ray Abram, TechCXO and author of Connect Like a Boss

December 30, 2021 by John Ray

Ray Abram
Decision Vision
Decision Vision Episode 149: Should I Become More Extroverted? - An Interview with Ray Abram, TechCXO and author of Connect Like a Boss
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

Ray Abram

Decision Vision Episode 149:  Should I Become More Extroverted? – An Interview with Ray Abram, TechCXO and author of Connect Like a Boss

If connections and the quality of one’s network are a vital aspect of success in business, then how do introverts succeed? Should they become more extroverted? Joining host Mike Blake, Ray Abram of TechCXO and author of Connect Like a Boss discussed misconceptions about introverts, what it means to be an introvert in business, the impact of a digitally transformed world, managing introverts, and much more. Decision Vision is presented by Brady Ware & Company.

Ray Abram, CISSP, PMP, CSM, Senior Consultant at TechCXO

Ray Abram, CISSP, PMP, CSM, Senior Consultant at TechCXO

TechCXO provides companies with on-demand executives. TechCXO was founded on the premise that high potential companies can greatly benefit from proven, interim executives who they otherwise may not be able to access due to cost, availability, or because they do not necessarily need them full time. Our purpose is to provide the best executive talent available… on demand.

Ray Abrams knows what it’s like to overcome introversion and lack of confidence. As a self-proclaimed super-shy kid, he has risen out of mediocrity to find the success he previously only dreamed about.

For decades, Ray, a graduate of Hampton University in Virginia moved from job to job never finding the level of success he sought. Until one day he read an article on LinkedIn that said over 80% of jobs and opportunities come through people that we know. Eureka! Ray then began amassing a wealth of knowledge on how to build what he calls a “Circle of Success”.

He has since used that knowledge to not only change his life, but put countless others on the path to realizing their dreams through the people that they are connected with.

In his first book, Connect Like a Boss, Ray shares his fascinating experience on the strategies he used to become the best version of himself and fill his contact list with the people who could help him get what he wanted out of life. He is uniquely qualified in the fundamentals of identifying goals, working a room, and building long-term connections with intention. His mastery of these fundamentals can help your group triumph in this time-crunched, disconnected world.

Ray Abram’s message about the Seven Steps to Building Lasting Business Relationships, based on the science of building intentional friendships, resonates with diverse audiences at every level. He helps executives and entrepreneurs learn the art of prioritizing, categorizing, aligning, and pinging their contacts to maximize the value of their personal relationships in an efficient. effective way. Ray has delivered his networking and relationship strategy experience to such companies as Viacom, AT&T, Coca-Cola, and Cox Media, to name a few.

Personal website | Company website | LinkedIn

Mike Blake, Brady Ware & Company

Mike Blake, Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series

Michael Blake is the host of the Decision Vision podcast series and a Director of Brady Ware & Company. Mike specializes in the valuation of intellectual property-driven firms, such as software firms, aerospace firms, and professional services firms, most frequently in the capacity as a transaction advisor, helping clients obtain great outcomes from complex transaction opportunities. He is also a specialist in the appraisal of intellectual properties as stand-alone assets, such as software, trade secrets, and patents.

Mike has been a full-time business appraiser for 13 years with public accounting firms, boutique business appraisal firms, and an owner of his own firm. Prior to that, he spent 8 years in venture capital and investment banking, including transactions in the U.S., Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.

LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm which helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality. Brady Ware services clients nationally from its offices in Alpharetta, GA; Columbus and Dayton, OH; and Richmond, IN. The firm is growth-minded, committed to the regions in which they operate, and most importantly, they make significant investments in their people and service offerings to meet the changing financial needs of those they are privileged to serve. The firm is dedicated to providing results that make a difference for its clients.

Decision Vision Podcast Series

Decision Vision is a podcast covering topics and issues facing small business owners and connecting them with solutions from leading experts. This series is presented by Brady Ware & Company. If you are a decision-maker for a small business, we’d love to hear from you. Contact us at decisionvision@bradyware.com and make sure to listen to every Thursday to the Decision Vision podcast.

Past episodes of Decision Vision can be found at decisionvisionpodcast.com. Decision Vision is produced and broadcast by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Connect with Brady Ware & Company:

Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:02] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions. Brought to you by Brady Ware & Company. Brady Ware is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality.

Mike Blake: [00:00:21] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we discuss the process of decision making on a different topic from the business owners’ or executives’ perspective. We aren’t necessarily telling you what to do, but we can put you in a position to make an informed decision on your own and understand when you might need help along the way.

Mike Blake: [00:00:44] My name is Mike Blake, and I’m your host for today’s program. I’m a director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia. My practice specializes in providing fact-based strategic and risk management advice to clients that are buying, selling, or growing the value of companies and intellectual property.

Mike Blake: [00:01:08] And by the way, as an aside, now that the new college football rankings have come out, it looks like at some point the University of Georgia and University of Cincinnati will be playing in football. So, that’s going to be an interesting clash between our two offices.

Mike Blake: [00:01:21] Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast, which is being recorded in Atlanta per social distancing protocols. If you would like to engage with me on social media with my Chart of the Day and other content, I’m on LinkedIn as myself and @unblakeable on Facebook, Twitter, Clubhouse, and Instagram. I also recently launched a new LinkedIn Group called A Group That Doesn’t Suck, so please join that as well if you would like to engage. If you like this podcast, please subscribe on your favorite podcast aggregator and please consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Mike Blake: [00:01:55] Today’s topic is, Should I become more extroverted? The reputation of introverts is that they or we are aloof, or awkward, or loners, nerdy, unfriendly, shy, strange, withdrawn, probably other things. And an academic study found that extroverts are 25 percent more likely to be in a high earning job than those who are less outgoing. According to elegantthemes.com, high profile introverts include Bill Gates, Elon Musk, and Warren Buffett.

Mike Blake: [00:02:29] And it’s estimated that introverts make up between 25 to 40 percent of the population. I wonder if that’s even understating the number of introverts, because I’ll bet you a lot of introverts don’t respond to the surveys. They probably don’t answer the phone. But anyway, I guess that’s the sort of selection of survivorship bias there.

Mike Blake: [00:02:50] And I’m interested in this topic because I’m an introvert. I’m not the big outgoing guy, for sure. And I work in a pretty introverted industry in accounting. And the joke is, you can tell if an accountant is extroverted because they’re looking at your shoes when they talk to you.

Mike Blake: [00:03:13] And I can tell you for sure that my wife’s biggest fear with me is not that I’ll cheat on her or anything like that. First of all, I don’t have the time management skills. She knows that for sure. There’s no way I could lead a second life. But her biggest fear is that I’ll be selected for the Mars mission because being put into a spaceship by myself for two years and there’s no real time communication, there’s 20 minutes in between transmissions, I’m like, “In, baby. Sign me up.” Except they don’t need an old fat guys to the Mars mission, so it’s unfortunate. I’m not likely to be a candidate for that.

Mike Blake: [00:03:48] So, this should be an interesting conversation. Joining us today to help us with this is Ray Abram of TechCXO. Ray knows what it’s like to overcome introversion and lack of confidence. As a self-proclaimed super shy kid, he has risen out of mediocrity to find the success he previously only dreamed about. For decades, Ray, a graduate of Hampton University in Virginia, moved from job to job, never finding the level of success he sought. Until one day, he read an article on LinkedIn that said over 80 percent of jobs and opportunities came through people that we know.

Mike Blake: [00:04:23] Eureka. Ray then began amassing a wealth of knowledge on how to build – what he calls – a circle of success. He has since used that knowledge to, not only change his life, but put countless others on the path to realizing their dreams through the people that they are connected with. In his first book, Connect Like a Boss, Ray shares his fascinating experience and the strategies he used to become the best version of himself and fill his contact list with the people who could help him get what he wanted out of life.

Mike Blake: [00:04:52] He is uniquely qualified in the fundamentals of identifying goals, working a room, and building long term connections with intention. His mastery of these fundamentals can help your group triumph in this time crunched disconnected world. Ray’s message about the seven steps to building lasting business relationships based on the science of building intentional friendships resonates with diverse audiences at every level. He helps executives and entrepreneurs learn the art of prioritizing, categorizing, aligning, and pinging their contexts to maximize the value of their personal relationships in an efficient, effective way.

Mike Blake: [00:05:29] Ray has delivered his networking and relationship strategy experience to such companies as Viacom, AT&T, Coca-Cola and Cox Media, to name a few. Ray, welcome to the program.

Ray Abram: [00:05:40] Thank you. Thank you very much, Michael.

Mike Blake: [00:05:43] So, I mean, doesn’t this sort of set up for some kind of bar joke? Two introverts are going to talk to each other over a podcast? I wonder if our listeners are thinking that there’s just going to be 30 minutes of dead air or the occasional cough. So, we have some work to do. But I think a lot of people misunderstand introverts. And so, I’m going to actually start with that.

Mike Blake: [00:06:10] You know, I am an introvert. My passions tend to be introverted. You’re not going to see me posting pictures on social media with me at a party of, like, 20 people. Never going to happen. Not intentionally, anyway. How are introverts like us most misunderstood?

Ray Abram: [00:06:29] Well, I think the biggest thing that people misunderstand about introverts is – you actually summed it up. I wish I could have had some of that preview because I think you summed it up – people think introverts are nerdy and arrogant. I think that’s really kind of the biggest misunderstanding. I’ve had that all my life as an introvert, is, people assume because I’m kind of standoffish or I’m standing to myself that I don’t want to be involved with them, that I think I’m better than them. And that’s a huge misunderstanding that limits introverts.

Mike Blake: [00:07:10] So, what was that moment that said, “You know what? I’m too much of an introvert.” Or maybe that’s not a fair question, we’re going to come back to that. But you decided that that was being a barrier to your own success.

Ray Abram: [00:07:26] Yeah. It was that last layoff. Part of being in technology and consulting, particularly, or contracting, every year or so, the company says, “Okay. It’s October, it’s fourth quarter, we got to let some people go.” And I always seem to be on the let go side. And we know we have to keep some people and let some people go. And then, it would always take me, you know, months to find something new.

Ray Abram: [00:07:55] And it occurred to me that in all these times it happened, I could always blame somebody else. But it occurred to me that I was the common denominator. And so, once that it happened that one last time I said, “I do not want this to happen again and so I need to fix my ability to connect with people.”

Mike Blake: [00:08:18] Now, I wish I had that excuse. The last time I got fired from a job was about 25 years ago. I was fired because I flat out sucked at it. It didn’t matter if I was an introvert or extrovert, I sucked at it and I was glad when they fired me. It was a bad match from day one. We could go off on a tangent, but I won’t.

Mike Blake: [00:08:39] So, when you were fired from that job, why do you think it was because you’re an introvert that led to that? What was it about being an introvert that puts you in the firing line do you think?

Ray Abram: [00:08:49] It’s just the connection. I think people hire and keep people that they like. It’s unfortunate. I mean, it would be great if the world was fair. But people look out for their friends. And I wasn’t good at making friends. I wasn’t seen as a guy that, “But we can’t let Ray go. Everybody loves Ray.” While I’m a very nice guy and very personable, I do my job, I wasn’t good at building that connection that would make a manager as they’re going through the list, “I got to let 20 people go. I can’t let Ray go.” So, I wasn’t good at that.

Mike Blake: [00:09:30] I wonder if there’s a demographic that people who are introverts are more likely to listen to podcasts? I’ll bet you they are. But let’s say for a second that somebody listening to this podcast and they’re trying to self-diagnose, am I an introvert? And more importantly, am I an introvert to the degree that it’s starting to get in the way of my success? What are some signs that I can make as a self-diagnosis to start taking stock and say, “Hey, this is something that maybe I need to take a look at changing or adapting my environment to?”

Ray Abram: [00:10:10] It really comes down to happiness. There’s nothing wrong with being an introvert if you’re happy. I think you mentioned, if they put you on a space capsule for two years, you never have to talk to anybody, you’d be ecstatic. However, if you’re suffering because you’re not getting invited, I think the thing, too, with introverts is that we crave to be invited. We just don’t want to go. So, as a human being, you crave connection.

Ray Abram: [00:10:42] And so, that kind of feeling like you’re not fitting in, feeling like you’re in bad relationships because you feel like nobody else will even be bothered with you. And so, you become unhappy and it feeds on itself. And then, that unhappiness kind of you get the schleprock effect, then you start to push people away. So, you don’t get what you want in life because you aren’t good at connecting with people. And that leads to unhappiness, if that makes sense.

Mike Blake: [00:11:20] And you bring up kind of you want to be invited, but you don’t want to go. There’s a certain level of empowerment that comes with that, too, isn’t there? I mean, you’d rather be in the position of saying, “I appreciate it, but I’m going to sort of hang back.” As opposed to not being invited at all. You wind up in exactly the same space, but the path by which you get there makes the difference, doesn’t it?

Ray Abram: [00:11:46] It absolutely does. Because when you look at social media, that made it even worse. It was already that FOMO was a thing back when we were kids. However, now, it’s really in your face and you look and you see your “friends” are out having a good time and enjoying themselves and nobody thought to call you. Or it was the event of the year and you didn’t even know about it. And that can lead to FOMO, for lack of a better word. But you still may not go even if you knew. But that feeling of not being invited is hurtful.

Mike Blake: [00:12:24] And it’s not just FOMO, it’s actually just MO, right? You’re missing out. It’s not just fear of missing out, you’re actually missing out because you’re not plugged into the network that makes you aware of those things. And there’s only a certain amount by which people will go that far out of their way to make sure that you’re plugged in. You got to kind of meet people part of the way, if not halfway, maybe at least a quarter of the way.

Mike Blake: [00:12:52] So, your personal experience was about losing jobs, but now you’re sort of more on the top of the org chart, if you will. So, you’re not going to lose jobs anymore because of your introversion. From where you sit now, where does the introversion/extroversion divide kind of play into how you conduct yourself and how you gain success in your professional life?

Ray Abram: [00:13:18] Wow. This question comes up a lot, how do I become more extroverted? And so, that’s the one thing I do want to clear up is that, it’s not about becoming extroverted. It’s about understanding your natural tendencies. Like, I’m lefthanded. When I was little, everybody wanted me to write righthanded. There’s just certain things we have natural tendencies to, but you adapt and you say – for me, it’s about understanding – “I don’t like large crowds. I don’t like speaking up when I’m in a group of 20 or 30 people. But I do very well with one-on-one.” So, it’s about staying in touch with people one-on-one or two-on-one, you know, having lunches, calling, coffees.

Ray Abram: [00:14:08] So, I just had to do different things that helped me leverage my introversion. But I just have to do it differently. I can’t get 20 people together because then I feel uncomfortable.

Mike Blake: [00:14:20] So, you bring up a point I want to make sure that I hit today, and this is as good a time as any because it’s a nice segue. I don’t think that you’re saying like introverts need help per se. This term is used elsewhere in life, but you’re born that way. That doesn’t necessarily mean you need to change fundamentally who you are. But I think what you’re saying is that you need to recognize that about yourself. And then, kind of like a coach, put yourself in a position to be successful.

Ray Abram: [00:14:50] Yes. That’s absolutely right. So, you have to train differently. Use a sports analogy, you just have to exercise differently to work on the parts that you need to work on. And so, being an introvert, I know that I don’t like a lot of crowds, but I do very well in small groups and have good conversations.

Ray Abram: [00:15:16] And, also, there’s another thing I want to make sure we touch on, too, is that there’s a difference between introversion and shyness. And those two terms get conflated quite a bit. Introversion is about you live in your head, you have conversations with yourself. Shyness is more a fear. It’s more about fear and shame. I’m afraid of what’s going to happen if people find this secret out about me. Or you have this feeling, “I’m going to trip over my feet or my trip over my words.” And so, the shyness is something that you can fix. But introversion is something that you cannot and it doesn’t need to be fixed.

Mike Blake: [00:15:59] Talk to me about how digital transformation has changed the world of the introvert. My personal experience is, I think it’s been great. We’re now in a situation where I can politely turn down a hug because I can plausibly say that it may lead to a lethal disease being transmitted. But I think it might be a two edged sword, talk about how digital transformation may be helping, but also maybe hurting introverts.

Ray Abram: [00:16:36] Yeah. To your point, it’s a crutch. It’s a crutch. And as you know with crutches, they help you walk. However, they don’t do anything for strengthening your legs. You have to have the PT. You have to have that physical training to strengthen that muscle. If you use this digital world, it’s easy. However, it doesn’t help you because it’s a physical world and you do have to be around people at some point.

Ray Abram: [00:17:14] And hiding behind a screen, just to me, doesn’t lead to a fulfilled life. There’s pieces that are missing. The senses that we have that are greater than our eyes and our ears, I mean, when you are with someone, you actually experience them physically, electrically. And that electrical charge, you need that. And so, if you’re just in here behind the screen all the time, it doesn’t help you live a fulfilled life. If that makes sense.

Mike Blake: [00:17:51] You know, I’m curious how you’d react to this. I think that the most important concept that is coming out of coronavirus and the digitally transformed world that it’s created is intentionality. You can’t manage by walking around anymore. You can’t bump into the water – I think the water cooler is a little overrated. I’m kind of like, “What are you standing around the water cooler for? Get back to work.”

Mike Blake: [00:18:24] But in the same token, to manage our teams to develop relationships, when people say you can’t develop relationships digitally, I think that goes too far. But where I do agree is that it needs to be more intentional. There needs to be more process to it because the default setting now is everybody’s a hermit. And so, now, you have to make a special effort to kind of come out of your cave, come out of your shell a little bit. And I think that’s maybe the other edge of the sword that’s working against introverts.

Mike Blake: [00:19:01] It was bad enough when I had to make the effort to wade into the lunchroom and sit down with ten other people. Or it was bad enough when I had to go to networking meetings of 58 people. But, now, I’ve got to go out of my way to set up Zooms and to call people. And go out of my way to make that contact. And people aren’t going to come to me. Out of sight, out of mind, I do think is a very real thing. I do think that’s the price that introverts are paying and we really have to be mindful of because, otherwise, we can truly fall off the face of the Earth as far as people are concerned.

Ray Abram: [00:19:37] You’re absolutely right. And, no, if you don’t call people to just say hello, very few people will call you. When you think about it, every call you get is somebody wanting something or it’s business. Very few people in today’s world just call each other just to say hello. And so, you as an introvert, have to do that intentionally. Schedule it and say, “I need to call three people.” What I recommend to my clients is call three people every day just to say hello. It keeps you in the loop.

Ray Abram: [00:20:15] I want to make a point about the digital transformation – and I think this is going to be helpful for introverts – kind of where our worlds are going to merge is this concept of the metaverse. It’s this always on goggles, avatars, people walking around in digital real estate. I don’t know how that’s going to look. I know it’ll be weird, but it will be that place where you just put your goggles on and you can physically or mentally walk into a room full of people and have discussions.

Mike Blake: [00:20:51] You talked about doing three phone calls a day, I want to follow up on that. What are other tools have you incorporated in your own life to, maybe, minimize the negative effects of introversion?

Ray Abram: [00:21:07] Yeah. So, one of the challenges or one of the things that kind of makes you introverted is, you believe things that aren’t true. You know, sometimes we suffer from mind reading, like, already thinking about what the person is going to think. So, the one question I ask myself – this helped me a lot – was, why do I believe that to be true? And so, instead of seeing the worst thing possible scenario, by asking why do I believe it’s true, when I ask myself that, the answer comes back usually it’s probably not true. And so, it frees me. That’s been a big help for me.

Mike Blake: [00:21:49] We tend to idolize extroverts for some reason. Why do you think that is?

Ray Abram: [00:21:59] It’s interesting, we actually had a shift and society did that to us. I was reading this a book called Quiet by Susan Cain, and she talks about a study that was done – well, not even a study, but just historically, introverts used to be revered.

Mike Blake: [00:22:19] Scholars.

Ray Abram: [00:22:19] Right. It was the Andy Griffiths of the world, the Abraham Lincolns, who were introverted thinkers. That was the ideal man who’s quiet and strong. But when people started moving into the cities, they called it the cult of personality, where having a outgoing personality became important. And so, schools were encouraged to teach kids, if you didn’t play with others well or you didn’t like to play with others, your parents were called into the office. You know, “There’s a problem with Ray. He doesn’t like to stand in front of the class and write on the board.” So, society has kind of put it on us to be the extroverted ideal, but it’s not anything that is natural.

Mike Blake: [00:23:15] You know, that’s interesting. I’m going to put that on my reading list. Actually, I’ve got new Kindle credits I got to spend. I’m curious, did they mention whether or not the advent of television has anything to do with that as well? I’ll bet you that it does.

Ray Abram: [00:23:32] Oh, I’m sure it does. Television has a lot to do with everything. There’s a YouTube video, I think it’s the history of America or the American era, and they kind of talk about how Sigmund Freud’s nephew kind of helped create society with advertising campaigns, and got women to smoke, and created eating bacon and eggs for breakfast. It’s amazing. And they used television to push a lot of this stuff to us. And so, society is largely influenced by television.

Mike Blake: [00:24:13] You know, I think back to the 1960 election, that was the first one that have televised debates. And neither you or I are old enough to remember that, but we know the story behind it. And John Kennedy prevailed in that election when Nixon was clearly the more qualified person to be president, right? And I would even argue if John Kennedy had Dwight Eisenhower’s personality – I think Eisenhower is kind of an introvert – I’m not sure Kennedy wins that election, necessarily. And I think that’s an illustration of how TV kind of elevated the sense of this extroverted, effervescent kind of charisma that we seem to gravitate to because I think it just makes it more ubiquitous and more visible, I guess.

Ray Abram: [00:25:01] Yeah. Yeah. Those people are seen as winners. They’re people who are extroverted. Again, it’s the cult of personality that people who have outgoing personality. This is the thing, I think before the cult of personality, a quiet man was seen as very trustworthy and somebody that you want to work with and do business with. But after the cult of personality, the quiet man is seen as something suspicious. Why is he so quiet? What’s he hiding? And so, it’s just a mind shift against quiet people.

Mike Blake: [00:25:37] And that brings up a question I want to talk to you about, because I want to talk sales a little bit. And we think of the stereotypical salesperson as a slap on the back, shake your hand, bro hug kind of person, whatever the younger salespeople do. I don’t know. I’m a million years old now. But that’s sort of the quintessential salesperson, right? And I know when I grew up, when I had my first job in finance, I was the number cruncher. They’re never putting me in front of, like, real people that might have paid us money or not. Just crunch the numbers, we’re good.

Mike Blake: [00:26:25] But I kind of wonder now if the pendulum is kind of swinging back towards introverts, because we’re just so bombarded now with being sold to all the damn time. And now YouTube influencers have become a thing, and YouTube influencers are, basically – let’s face it – they’re selling 24/7. They’re selling themselves, but they’re selling.

Mike Blake: [00:26:49] And I wonder if the pendulum is sort of swinging back to the introvert that’s just saying, “You know, here’s what I got. Love to tell you more about it. But that’s it. I’m not going to chase you down. I’m not going to hunt you down. Maybe I’ll do one follow up phone call. I’m not going to try to take you on a three day Bahama vacation or anything.” Do you agree, is the pendulum kind of swinging back our way in terms of preferred sales style?

Ray Abram: [00:27:17] Yeah. It’s swinging back to authenticity. So, I don’t know if it’s an introvert/extrovert thing, but it’s about authenticity and trust, and being trustworthy. And so, people are, to your point, inundated. And everybody’s lying and extra in marketing. And marketing have gotten so good at selling you stuff that when you see someone who is just authentic, and to your point, not trying to overdo it or overstate what they’re selling, then it’s moving more toward authenticity, as opposed to whether it’s introverted or extroverted.

Mike Blake: [00:27:59] You know, that’s a great point. I’m glad you corrected me on that because – and this shows my own bias – as an introvert, I will admit that I have an inherent distrust and bias against people who are extroverted. It doesn’t mean I don’t get along with them – and I want to get back to that in a second. It doesn’t mean that I discriminate against them, or maybe I do. But people who are extroverted, to me, seem a little not normal, because they operate in a mental space that I cannot conceive living in.

Mike Blake: [00:28:42] And so, I do think that now that we have this discussion, we’re uncovering, I guess, a deep and ugly part of myself. One of many we discover on the Decision Vision podcast. But I wonder if other introverts sort of maybe distrust extroverts? Maybe it’s jealousy. Maybe we see extroverts that get all the good stuff.

Ray Abram: [00:29:02] That’s part of it.

Mike Blake: [00:29:03] Maybe that’s part of it, too.

Ray Abram: [00:29:05] That is part of it. There is a jealousy. It goes back to I want to be invited. I want to be included. I want to be accepted. All human beings want love. We crave love. I think introverts are afraid of too much love. It’s just like hunger. You need to be accepted, and extroverts appear to be accepted wherever they go as soon as they walk in the room. And introverts stand back and go, “Oh, I wish everybody wanted my -” you know what I mean? It’s just an interesting dynamic with introversion.

Mike Blake: [00:29:48] So, we touched on this before, but I want to come back to it explicitly because I think it’s very important. And that’s how social media impacts introverts and impacts kind of the dynamic, if you will, between introversion and extroversion. Do you have an opinion as to whether or not social media is more helpful or more harmful to introverts and extroverts? Isn’t it a mixed bag? Is it even a fair question to ask?

Ray Abram: [00:30:15] Yes. It’s a good question. I think it’s a fair question. I don’t know if it’s more harmful to one personality type than the other. I do think it comes down to what you’re using it for. There’s risk of addiction. And I think we’ve mentioned it before, just kind of instead of going out and experiencing life, I will just look at my screen and let life happen around me. And so, you kind of miss out on having a full life just by watching as opposed to ever participating.

Mike Blake: [00:31:02] I think in my view – and, again, feel free to disagree. I’m probably wrong – one of the things that makes introverts introverts is that we’re inside our heads. And we’re really good at creating narratives inside our heads. It goes back to what you said, “Wait a second. What evidence do I have that any of this that I’m inventing for myself is true?” But social media, I do think, is sort of a conveyor belt that’s just constantly feeding stuff that feeds our internal narrative that may not necessarily be positive or helpful.

Ray Abram: [00:31:40] You’re right. And, also, I think introverts tend to observe social media. One of the challenges I’ve had, even as I try to promote my business, is doing videos, the lives and the reels, and I put that camera on. If you only knew how many times I’ve held my phone up ready to do my live and I just can’t do it. I can’t. I don’t know what to say. And so, I just turn it off. But the whole conversation is here, I just can’t get it out.

Ray Abram: [00:32:13] Well, extroverts, I think, are the opposite, always they’re live. You see it on your phone all the time. Such and such is live, such and such is live. And I’m like, I can’t do that. So, I don’t know if it’s harmful to answer your question, but I think there is a different way in the way introverts and extroverts experience social media.

Mike Blake: [00:32:33] Yeah. I’m right there with you. I have broken so many promises to do video. I really could run for office. I’d be a great politician. Because I know it’d be great for my business, but I can’t bring myself to do it. The few times I’ve done it, I sound like I’m in a hostage tape. I swear to God. And, you know, it’s going to do more harm than good.

Mike Blake: [00:32:59] On the other hand, my wife, she looks to me like, “Why can’t you just do this?” And like, “Well, why can’t you just fly a 747?” That’s what a pilot would say. But she can sit down behind her computer, turn the camera on, and just start talking. And I’m working off some questions here, but you and I are having a recorded conversation by microphone, I can do that. But, man, there’s just something about video and talking into the camera that is just so different. Maybe it’s the absence of feedback or something. But even if I have a script, again, hostage tape kind of thing. I blink three times if you want to be freed, sort of thing.

Ray Abram: [00:33:37] It is because we’re inside of our head. You’re already having a whole conversation inside of your head. And, also, there’s this fear of saying the wrong thing or saying something stupid. That’s what happens to me. I know that as soon as I start talking, I’m going to say something stupid or something not right. And introverts do have kind of more of a need to be right. We’d rather be right. We don’t like to trial and error. We sit back and think about things for a while and then do it. And you probably experienced this, if somebody says something rude to you and you get the perfect response, like, ten minutes later or after you get in the car.

Mike Blake: [00:34:21] It’s like that Seinfeld episode.

Ray Abram: [00:34:24] Exactly. You get in the car and you go, “Mama,” you know. So, that’s part of just our personality.

Mike Blake: [00:34:36] So, now, you’re in a position of business leadership. You must have given some thought to this. You know, if you’re leading a team, running a shop or company that’s got a bunch of introverts in it, what can you do to give introverts a platform to unlock their full potential? How can a company, how can a leader, meet them halfway or more than halfway so they get a chance to fully contribute?

Ray Abram: [00:35:04] Yeah. I think that’s really just making people feel accepted. But it is tricky. It’s tricky because introverts do like to be on their own. So, you have to – how can I say it? – encourage. You have to encourage participation without insisting on it. It is kind of a fine line because, as introverts, even on a conference call, even on a Zoom call, I hate when I’m called out. “Ray, what do you think about that?”

Mike Blake: [00:35:41] Right. If I knew what to say, I already would have told you.

Ray Abram: [00:35:43] I would have told you.

Mike Blake: [00:35:44] I wasn’t holding back.

Ray Abram: [00:35:47] Right. I don’t have anything to say. So, it comes down to just making sure that people feel that they’re safe. Because that’s really what limits you, is you don’t feel safe to talk in this open forum. Because, again, to your point, you’re already imagining somebody is going to start laughing or they’re going to say, “What a jerk?” And why is that true? So, you have to make sure people feel safe, and included, and encouraged to participate.

Mike Blake: [00:36:19] I’m talking with Ray Abram. And the topic is, Should I become more extroverted? We’re running out of time. I know you got another place to be. But I want to come back to what you just said because I think, again, it really just gets back to intentionality. I think one of the things I’m learning from this conversation, is, extroverts benefit and like bumping into each other. Things happen because they bump into each other.

Mike Blake: [00:36:47] Introverts still have contributions to make. But introverts have to be much more intentional about making them and probably their peers who are less introverted need to be a bit more intentional about drawing it out of them or giving them the platform, or, as you call it, the safe space in order to do so.

Ray Abram: [00:37:08] Yes. That’s absolutely right. And it’s not easy. Introverts and extroverts in a team together, they need to work together, but it is challenging just because of the way people communicate. But as a manager, understanding the types of, “If I could, I would give everybody a psychological test,” so you know where people are. Because many people that you think are introverted are not and vice versa. And so, you kind of got to understand this personality type in order to manage it effectively.

Mike Blake: [00:37:45] Does it surprise you at all when people put out the names of introverts who are big time leaders, the Bill Gates of the world, the Warren Buffetts of the world? I don’t know where they get Elon Musk. Calling Elon Musk an introvert is a little bit of a stretch to me. But I don’t know him, so maybe he’s totally different. But the guy smoking a joint on a video, to me, is not an introvert.

Ray Abram: [00:38:07] He’s not shy. He’s not shy.

Mike Blake: [00:38:09] He’s not shy, and maybe that’s it. So, does it surprise you at all that the founder of Microsoft, the founder of Berkshire Hathaway is, in fact, an introvert?

Ray Abram: [00:38:22] Not at all. Because you spend quiet time thinking, you know, thinking before you act, thinking before you speak. So, just the fact that these guys are successful, and particularly when you think about what they’re doing in technology and managing money, Warren Buffett talks about he reads four hours a day or something. I think Bill Gates takes a week away, locks himself in a room with books and notebooks. So, they’ve learned how to make it work for them.

Ray Abram: [00:38:58] And so, I think if we take anything away from this interview is, understand your personality type and figure out how to make it work for you. Not try to become another type of personality because that’s very difficult, if not impossible.

Mike Blake: [00:39:16] Yeah. That, to me, sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Ray Abram: [00:39:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you’ll be uncomfortable. You’ll be miserable. And you’ll put yourself into a box. It’s like trying to write righthanded or change the hand to write with. It’s just very difficult and you’re going to feel uncomfortable. The key to introversion or overcoming it – if that’s the right word – is being comfortable in your own skin. And so, when you understand this is my personality, it’s not anything wrong with me. This is not limiting. I’m not sick. It’s just this is the type of personality I have. I can still be very successful, I think, is the empowering lesson.

Mike Blake: [00:40:05] Ray, this has been a great conversation, but we’re running out of time. If there are questions that I either didn’t ask and our audience wish I had or wish that we would have talked more or gone into more depth about a particular question, can they emerge from their introversion and reach out to you for more information? And if so, what’s the best way to do that?

Ray Abram: [00:40:27] Yeah. So, you can follow me on Instagram at ray_abram. You know, feel free to DM me. On Facebook, I’m Coach Ray Abram. And my website is rayabram.com. You know, there’s a contact form, we can set up a call if you want to just jump on a quick call, and I’ll help you out.

Mike Blake: [00:40:49] Well, that’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. And I’d like to thank Ray Abrams so much for sharing his expertise with us.

Mike Blake: [00:40:55] We’ll be exploring a new topic each week, so please tune in so that when you’re faced with your next business decision, you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy these podcasts, please consider leaving a review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us so that we can help them. If you would like to engage with me on social media with my Chart of the Day and other content, I’m on LinkedIn as myself and @unblakeable on Facebook, Twitter, Clubhouse, and Instagram. Also, check out my new LinkedIn Group called A Group That Doesn’t Suck. Once again, this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision podcast.

 

 

Tagged With: Brady Ware & Company, Connect Like a Boss, Decision Vision, extroversion, introversion, introverts, Mike Blake, networking, networking for introverts, Ray Abram, self confidence, spray and pray, Tech CXO

Russ Simatic, G&A Partners

December 29, 2021 by John Ray

G&A Partners
Minneapolis St. Paul Business Radio
Russ Simatic, G&A Partners
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

G&A Partners

Russ Simatic, G&A Partners (Minneapolis-St. Paul Business Radio, Episode 29)

Russ Simatic, Minnesota Regional Sales Director for G&A Partners, discusses G&A’s work as a professional employer organization (PEO), “an HR toolbox” for organizations. When he owned his own business, he came to understand first-hand the value a PEO offers to alleviate vexing issues employers face with human resources. Russ and host John Ray discussed myths about outsourced HR functions, the recent changes in the industry, a look ahead to 2022, and much more. Minneapolis-St. Paul Business Radio is produced virtually by the Minneapolis St. Paul studio of Business RadioX®.

G&A Partners

G&A Partners is a professional Human Resources organization that provides comprehensive Human Resource Solutions and Services that are customized specifically for each of their client’s needs.

Their goal is to position your company for optimal growth and provide you with the most important commodity of all—time to grow.

Whether you need human resource outsourcing, payroll processing, payroll tax return filing, help with employee benefits, workers’ compensation coverage, unemployment claims management, regulatory compliance assistance, or a host of other services, G&A is your one-stop shop for targeted, highly responsive HR solutions.

G&A Partners prides itself on its proven expertise at providing the ideal mix of services for each client’s unique needs. With G&A as your strategic partner, you can feel secure turning your HR and administrative concerns over to us.

Company website | LinkedIn 

Russ Simatic, Regional Sales Director – Minnesota, G&A Partners

G&A Partners
Russ Simatic, Regional Sales Director – Minnesota, G & A Partners

Russ Simatic is an advocate for small, medium, and large businesses. He has dedicated the past ten-plus years to helping business owners and CEOs succeed in a variety of industries. He is an extremely talented and highly effective business executive with over 30 years of diversified business experience leading sales, operations, and marketing teams with Fortune 500 companies and as an entrepreneur. Today Russ uses his knowledge of Business, Human Resources, and the PEO industry to help his clients grow their business and bottom-line profits by providing them with cost-effective, efficient HR solutions and services. Russ’s honest and open communication style has created winning cultures wherever he has worked, and he uses those skills to build lasting relations with his friends, clients, and prospects.

When Russ isn’t helping his clients grow their businesses, he loves spending quality time with his family, grandchildren, and friends, preferably at their family cabin in Crosslake MN. Russ enjoys participating in outdoor activities like Golfing, Boating, Fishing, Grouse Hunting, and Gardening. Russ grew up in Wisconsin so the cheddar runs deep in his veins. He is an avid Badgers and Packer fan and a GB shareholder too. Having lived in Minnesota for the past 25 years he is also a fan of the Vikings, Twins, and Wild. No border battle here.

LinkedIn

Questions and Topics Discussed in this Episode

  • Who is G&A Partners?
  • How G&A has helped businesses during the pandemic
  • What G&A is doing to help businesses with recruiting and retention?
  • Tapping into new industries – who G&A serves
  • Discuss post-pandemic workplace (what businesses are asking)
  • Trends you will see in the workplace in 2022

Minneapolis-St. Paul Business Radio is hosted by John Ray and produced virtually from the Minneapolis St. Paul studio of Business RadioX® .  You can find the full archive of shows by following this link. The show is available on all the major podcast apps, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, Amazon, iHeart Radio, Stitcher, TuneIn, and others.

Tagged With: employee benefit outsourcing, employee benefits, G&A Partners, Human Resources, peo, professional employer organization, Russ SImatic

Tax Updates for 2021 and Beyond, with Danielle McBride, Oberman Law Firm

December 24, 2021 by John Ray

Danielle McBride
Dental Law Radio
Tax Updates for 2021 and Beyond, with Danielle McBride, Oberman Law Firm
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

Danielle McBrideTax Updates for 2021 and Beyond with Danielle McBride, Oberman Law Firm (Dental Law Radio, Episode 28)

On this edition of Dental Law Radio, Stuart Oberman was joined by Danielle McBride, tax authority and Partner at Oberman Law Firm, to discuss tax updates for 2021 and beyond. Danielle discussed changes in the Employee Retention Tax Credit, potential tax increases, a surtax on net investment income, and much more. Dental Law Radio is underwritten and presented by Oberman Law Firm and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

 

Danielle McBride, Partner, Oberman Law Firm

Danielle McBride
Danielle McBride, Partner, Oberman Law Firm

Danielle McBride has been practicing law for over 21 years, and her primary focus is representing healthcare clients on a local, regional, and national basis. Ms. McBride regularly consults with clients regarding simple to complex healthcare transitions, including mergers and acquisitions, employment law, governmental compliance, tax strategies, practice valuations, DSO formation and structures, employee compensation, associate and partnership contracts, joint ventures, and partnership buy-in/buy-outs.

In addition, Ms. McBride brings a wealth of knowledge and experience preparing practice valuations for clients, as well as formulating simple to complex tax strategies, and entity formations.

Ms. McBride holds a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology/Criminology from The Ohio State University, a Juris Doctor (J.D.) from Ohio Northern University Pettit College of Law, and a Master of Laws (LL.M.) in Taxation from Case Western Reserve University.

LinkedIn

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, it’s time for Dental Law Radio. Dental Law Radio is brought to you by Oberman Law Firm, a leading dental-centric law firm serving dental clients on a local, regional and national basis. Now, here’s your host, Stuart Oberman.

Stuart Oberman: [00:00:26] Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to Dental Law Radio. I have the absolute honor of having, Danielle McBride, Partner Oberman Law Firm, joining us today. And we’ve got a great, great topic. But first I want to get to talk to Danielle a little bit about really what she does at our law firm, which is amazing, and that’s why that I want to really have her on today’s podcast.

Stuart Oberman: [00:00:54] So, Danielle’s been practicing for about 21 years and focuses on health care and on the regional national basis. And Danielle handles a lot of dental transitions, healthcare transitions, employment law and tax. So, that’s going to be one of our topics today and, also, practice valuations. And Danielle has her Law Degree from Ohio Northern University and a Master’s in Tax from Case Western Reserve University. And there is no better topic today in today’s world if you’re a dental practice owner than tax.

Stuart Oberman: [00:01:36] So, Danielle, I want you to talk a little bit today about tax update for 2021 and beyond. I know that you are in tune immensely as to what’s going on with that. You have an enormous amount of resources. And we are extraordinarily happy to have you as a member of the firm. And I know we rely on you a lot for a lot of complex stuff. So, it is my absolute pleasure to have you on today. So, tax, tax, tax, tax, tell us what’s going on. And welcome, welcome, welcome.

Danielle McBride: [00:02:08] Tax. Well, thanks Stuart for the introduction. And I’m really happy to be here today and talk about tax, which to most people sounds like a boring topic, but it really plays a huge role in all of these transitions that we do. And part of what we do as a dental-specific lawyer is to make sure that we keep up to date on things that affect our clients in particular. And these tax laws, there’s a lot of stuff that does not affect clients in our business, but the things that do are important for them to learn.

Danielle McBride: [00:02:43] And we’ve got two real big bills, two bills that have gone through the the House, one passed into law. We’ve got the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which was actually passed and signed into law by the President November 15th. That had some major items. It’s the largest infrastructure act in decades. It’s got major items for disaster relief, capital contributions, public utilities, excise taxes, cryptocurrency provisions. And there’s one item in particular that has an impact on our dental clients. And that’s this Employee Retention Tax Credit, which was originally put into place under the CARES Act to allow those practices that had a decrease in revenues be able to claim some tax credits.

Danielle McBride: [00:03:33] So, the Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act actually ended that retroactively to September 30th of 2021. When it was originally put in place, it was supposed to — and it was extended through the end of 2021. So, now, we’ve lost the fourth quarter. That also keys up a few problems because they did this so late that there were some employers who had already withheld deposits thinking that they were going to get this credit. And so, there’s actually a new notice that came out on that. So, this earned income employee retention tax credit is 70% of qualified wages paid in a calendar quarter before, now, September 30th of 2021. The only exception to September 30, 2021 is the recovery startup business. And that’s someone who probably wasn’t in business before the March 2020 COVID shutdown. So, those clients have the ability to maybe qualify for quarter four when they wouldn’t have before this Infrastructure Act was signed into law.

Stuart Oberman: [00:04:57] I got one question. What kind of notice was sent out? What kind of notice when you say notice?

Danielle McBride: [00:05:02] It’s an IRS notice. So, the IRS notice, it’s Notice 2021-65 issued by the IRS. And that’s to provide guidance on the rollback of the employee retention tax credit, except for those recovery startups, like I mentioned. And so, for those employers that got an advance on the credit, the IRS isn’t making you repay that money until the due date of the fourth quarter return, which is January 31st of 2022. They’re also including a waiver-

Stuart Oberman: [00:05:32] Can our doctors get a copy of that from us? Because I know we get these questions from from CPAs.

Danielle McBride: [00:05:38] Yeah, we have access to it. We can give it. If there are dental CPAs or clients who want a copy of this notice, we have access to tax research. We can easily provide a copy of that notice. Notice also allows for some waiver of failure deposit penalties if you retain those deposits before December 20th of 2021. So, important piece of information for all those dental advisors to have in counseling their clients for this last quarter of the year.

Stuart Oberman: [00:06:14] Well, I know when you say — so, how do our clients or anyone who’s listening today get that information? They just email to you, and you can just send out-

Danielle McBride: [00:06:27] Sure, they can email our office.

Stuart Oberman: [00:06:30] Okay.

Danielle McBride: [00:06:30] They can email me at our office. It’s just Danielle@ObermanLaw.com. Or they can call and ask for me at our office phone number, 770-886-2400.

Stuart Oberman: [00:06:43] Now, there’s a lot of acronyms thrown around through all this legislature stuff that’s going on now and probably into 2022. So, when our doctors hear the acronym ERC, what does that stand for?

Danielle McBride: [00:06:58] Employee retention credit. And sometimes, also-

Stuart Oberman: [00:07:00] And that’s what you’re talking about.

Danielle McBride: [00:07:01] And sometimes, also, referred to as ERTC, employee retention tax credit.

Stuart Oberman: [00:07:06] Got it. Okay. Now, one thing is we get questions on how does the Back Better Act affect my practice? And I know you are on the forefront of that.

Danielle McBride: [00:07:20] Sure. And the Employee Retention Tax Credit was part of the Infrastructure Act. The second piece of legislation is the Build Back Better Act, and that has not been signed into law yet. It has passed the House and there is a Senate version. And that Senate version was passed or the act was passed by the House on November 19th. It’s been with the Senate. The CBO or the Congressional Budget Office has given some statistics to the senators on how much this is going to cost, what’s going into the bill, how are we paying for these things, tax increases and spending, all of that.

Danielle McBride: [00:08:02] And December 11th, a draft legislative text was released by the Senate Finance Committee chair. And so, that’s the current version of the bill that the Senate is looking at. It’s going to take all 50 senators for this thing to pass, and they’re still negotiating it. And there are senators like Senator Manchin who-

Stuart Oberman: [00:08:23] Of course.

Danielle McBride: [00:08:23] … are really pushing on this tax legislation. They have a couple of concerns; one with the Congressional Budget Office dollar amounts on this thing. And then, the other big issue that’s being debated under this Build Back Better Act is the SALT or the state and local tax deduction cap. It was a $10,000 cap. They want to raise it to $80,000. Cap was supposed to sunset in 2025, and they’re talking about pushing it out a little longer or maybe taking away that cap after 2025 or 2032, I think has been mentioned on this. So, that’s the biggest concern.

Danielle McBride: [00:09:12] For those of our clients who are concerned about this, the good news is this act had a lot of tax provisions in it that could have raised things like capital gains rates, individual and corporate business tax rates, estate planning issues and IRA contribution amounts. Things like that were contained in that bill. All the individual rates and the capital gains rate increases were removed from the bill. And some other limitations to that would have been a concern, most of those are no longer in the text of the bill, and it doesn’t look like those kind of things are going to get negotiated back in.

Danielle McBride: [00:09:54] So, those key provisions in this Build Back Better Act are going to be things like extended child tax credits, earned income tax credits, added childcare entitlements and paid family leave. There are some climate change spending in there. Tax increases, the state and local tax issue that I mentioned, there’s also tax increases for large corporations – a 15% tax on large corporations, one percent excise tax on stock buybacks for corporations. These are all things that are probably not going to affect our smaller dental practices. Even the larger dental practices are probably going to fall underneath the limits to where this is going to have an effect on them. There are surtaxes on modified adjusted gross income, but it’s on income from $10 million to $25 million, and 8% above $25 million.

Danielle McBride: [00:11:07] The one thing that does potentially have an impact is an expansion on the 3.8% surtax on net investment income. They want to include trade and business income, which would also include our Sub-S corporations, and a lot of our dental practices are Subchapter S corporations, and they take that income out of the business. Those distributions are not subject to a 3.8% Medicare payroll tax. If this expansion on the surtax on net investment income is expanded, then that’s going to take away what some people call the S-Corporation loophole. So, those are-.

Stuart Oberman: [00:11:49] Are major-

Danielle McBride: [00:11:49] There’s some other minimum distribution rules. Backdoor Roth IRA contributions and things like that are also being discussed. Roth IRA conversions, backdoor Roth IRA conversions may end in 2022. That’s one of the things that’s under this bill, which may have a big impact on some of our clients as well. Those are where there are certain income limits that don’t allow you to use a Roth IRA feature. And so, to take that away would mean you can’t get a Roth IRA. And those are the big issues in that act.

Stuart Oberman: [00:12:35] Wow. Well, I know that you are a major contributor to our Advisory Insights newsletter. And I know you’ll be bringing our listeners up to date on a regular basis regarding that. And I know-

Danielle McBride: [00:12:49] Right.

Stuart Oberman: [00:12:49] And we’re going to talk a little bit in a subsequent podcast regarding capital gains and ordinary income. I know you’re expert on that also. So, wow, there’s a lot of stuff. So, I think this is a great update. Again, we could talk for days on this topic, but I think this — I mean, it’s unbelievable. And I know some of this stuff that you’re reviewing, and looking at, and writing about, so this is major stuff.

Stuart Oberman: [00:13:20] Well, I think this gives our listeners a really, really good, good basis moving forward into the new year, especially what they need to do for this year. Although we got a week and a half, and I know there’s going to be lot of — or about week and half or so — a lot of scurrying activity. And this will keep our guys pretty busy with the CPAs. So, no, this is great stuff. Again, there’s so many moving pieces to this. And I know that you just scratched the surface of the highlights. I will tell you that.

Stuart Oberman: [00:13:54] So, well, I’ll tell you, well, it’s amazing. So, we’re going to bring you back on some subsequent podcasts. I know we got a couple more to go and our listeners are going to be even more informed. So, amazing. Danielle, thank you so much for joining us today. I know you’re very busy with yearend stuff and all the tax reviews coming up in the Legislature stuff. So, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

Danielle McBride: [00:14:24] Thanks, Stuart, for having me.

Stuart Oberman: [00:14:25] And then, what we’ll do is if you have any questions, concerns, feel free to reach out to us. Number is 770-886-2400. Oberman Law Firm, if you have any questions, please feel free to email myself Stuart@ObermanLaw.com or Danielle@ObermanLaw.com. Folks, thanks for joining us, and have a fantastic day. Talk to you soon.

 

 

About Dental Law Radio

Hosted by Stuart Oberman, a nationally recognized authority in dental law, Dental Law Radio covers legal, business, and other operating issues and topics of vital concern to dentists and dental practice owners. The show is produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX® and can be found on all the major podcast apps. The complete show archive is here.

Stuart Oberman, Oberman Law Firm

Stuart Oberman
Stuart Oberman, host of “Dental Law Radio”

Stuart Oberman is the founder and President of Oberman Law Firm. Mr. Oberman graduated from Urbana University and received his law degree from John Marshall Law School. Mr. Oberman has been practicing law for over 25 years, and before going into private practice, Mr. Oberman was in-house counsel for a Fortune 500 Company. Mr. Oberman is widely regarded as the go-to attorney in the area of Dental Law, which includes DSO formation, corporate business structures, mergers and acquisitions, regulatory compliance, advertising regulations, HIPAA, Compliance, and employment law regulations that affect dental practices.

In addition, Mr. Oberman’s expertise in the health care industry includes advising clients in the complex regulatory landscape as it relates to telehealth and telemedicine, including compliance of corporate structures, third-party reimbursement, contract negotiations, technology, health care fraud and abuse law (Anti-Kickback Statute and the State Law), professional liability risk management, federal and state regulations.

As the long-term care industry evolves, Mr. Oberman has the knowledge and experience to guide clients in the long-term care sector with respect to corporate and regulatory matters, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities (CCRCs). In addition, Mr. Oberman’s practice also focuses on health care facility acquisitions and other changes of ownership, as well as related licensure and Medicare/Medicaid certification matters, CCRC registrations, long-term care/skilled nursing facility management, operating agreements, assisted living licensure matters, and health care joint ventures.

In addition to his expertise in the health care industry, Mr. Oberman has a nationwide practice that focuses on all facets of contractual disputes, including corporate governance, fiduciary duty, trade secrets, unfair competition, covenants not to compete, trademark and copyright infringement, fraud, and deceptive trade practices, and other business-related matters. Mr. Oberman also represents clients throughout the United States in a wide range of practice areas, including mergers & acquisitions, partnership agreements, commercial real estate, entity formation, employment law, commercial leasing, intellectual property, and HIPAA/OSHA compliance.

Mr. Oberman is a national lecturer and has published articles in the U.S. and Canada.

LinkedIn

Oberman Law Firm

Oberman Law Firm has a long history of civic service, noted national, regional, and local clients, and stands among the Southeast’s eminent and fast-growing full-service law firms. Oberman Law Firm’s areas of practice include Business Planning, Commercial & Technology Transactions, Corporate, Employment & Labor, Estate Planning, Health Care, Intellectual Property, Litigation, Privacy & Data Security, and Real Estate.

By meeting their client’s goals and becoming a trusted partner and advocate for our clients, their attorneys are recognized as legal go-getters who provide value-added service. Their attorneys understand that in a rapidly changing legal market, clients have new expectations, constantly evolving choices, and operate in an environment of heightened reputational and commercial risk.

Oberman Law Firm’s strength is its ability to solve complex legal problems by collaborating across borders and practice areas.

Connect with Oberman Law Firm:

Company website | LinkedIn | Twitter

Tagged With: Danielle McBride, Dental Law Radio, ERC, ERTC, Oberman Law, Oberman Law Firm, Stuart Oberman, Taxes

Mary Caldwell, Alzheimer’s Association of Georgia

December 23, 2021 by John Ray

Alzheimer's
North Fulton Studio
Mary Caldwell, Alzheimer's Association of Georgia
Loading
00:00 /
RSS Feed
Share
Link
Embed

Download file

Alzheimer'sMary Caldwell, Alzheimer’s Association of Georgia (Episode 67, To Your Health with Dr. Jim Morrow)

On this edition of To Your Health, Dr. Morrow welcomed Mary Caldwell, Helpline and Early Stage Program Manager for the Alzheimer’s Association of Georgia, to discuss Alzheimer’s disease. Mary described its features, diagnosis, treatments, available resources such as The Georgia Memory Net, and much more. Dr. Morrow also addressed the current Omicron variant of Covid-19. To Your Health is brought to you by Morrow Family Medicine, a Member of Village Medical, which brings the care back to healthcare.

The Alzheimer’s Association, Georgia Chapter

The Alzheimer’s Association leads the way to end Alzheimer’s and all other dementia by accelerating global research, driving risk reduction and early detection, and maximizing quality care and support.

The Alzheimer’s Association, Georgia Chapter, is Georgia’s leading volunteer health organization in Alzheimer’s disease care, serving 159 counties in Georgia with offices in Atlanta, Augusta, Columbus, Dalton, Macon, Savannah, and Tifton. The chapter has been serving Georgia communities since 1982 by providing care and support such as care consultation, support groups, education, and social engagements for those with a diagnosis and their care partners. They also fund research globally and right here in Georgia.

Currently there are 150,000 Georgians living with Alzheimer’s and another 330,000 unpaid caregivers.

Website| LinkedIn| Facebook| Twitter

About Morrow Family Medicine, A Member of Village Medical

Morrow Family Medicine, a Member of Village Medical, is an award-winning, state-of-the-art family practice with offices in Cumming and Milton, Georgia. The practice combines healthcare information technology with old-fashioned care to provide the type of care that many are in search of today. Two physicians, three physician assistants and two nurse practitioners are supported by a knowledgeable and friendly staff to make your visit to Morrow Family Medicine, A Member of Village Medical one that will remind you of the way healthcare should be.  At Morrow Family Medicine, a Member of Village Medical, we like to say we are “bringing the care back to healthcare!”  The practice has been named the “Best of Forsyth” in Family Medicine in all five years of the award, is a three-time consecutive winner of the “Best of North Atlanta” by readers of Appen Media, and the 2019 winner of “Best of Life” in North Fulton County.

Village Medical offers a comprehensive suite of primary care services including preventative care, treatment for illness and injury, and management of chronic conditions such as diabetes, congestive heart failure, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and kidney disease. Atlanta-area patients can learn more about the practice here.

Dr. Jim Morrow, Morrow Family Medicine, and Host of To Your Health with Dr. Jim Morrow

Covid-19 misconceptionsDr. Jim Morrow is the founder and CEO of Morrow Family Medicine. He has been a trailblazer and evangelist in healthcare information technology, was named Physician IT Leader of the Year by HIMSS, a HIMSS Davies Award Winner, the Cumming-Forsyth Chamber of Commerce Steve Bloom Award Winner as Entrepreneur of the Year and he received a Phoenix Award as Community Leader of the Year from the Metro Atlanta Chamber of Commerce.  He is married to Peggie Morrow and together they founded the Forsyth BYOT Benefit, a charity in Forsyth County to support students in need of technology and devices. They have two Goldendoodles, a gaggle of grandchildren and enjoy life on and around Lake Lanier.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MorrowFamMed/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/7788088/admin/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/toyourhealthMD

The complete show archive of To Your Health with Dr. Jim Morrow addresses a wide range of health and wellness topics and can be found at www.toyourhealthradio.com.

Dr. Morrow’s Show Notes

Omicron, My Omicron

  • The variant is rapidly taking over as the most common cause of Covid in the US.
    • Most cases are already caused by Omicron and while a lot of these cases are mild,
      • this still causes a tremendous threat to those who are most susceptible.
  • The good news is that the mRNA vaccines are looking really good at preventing serious disease and death from Omicron and the other variants of the SarsCoV2 virus.
  • It’s an important distinction to make in this regard that the virus is not mutating.
    • Genetic code mutates.
    • That is NOT what is happening here.
    • The genetic code of this virus is the same in ALL these variants.
      • What is changing is the protein sequence in the spike protein of the virus.
    • See, viruses are composed of NOTHING but protein and genetic material.
      • They are not alive.
      • They are merely pieces of genetic code and amino acids,
        • which when lined up or connected in a certain way form protein molecules.
      • So, when you hear people talk about mutations, they are not informed correctly.
        • This is probably splitting hairs, but I believe it is important for people to understand that the virus is not mutating,
          • it is just having some changes in the amino acid sequence in the spike protein
          • and none of these changes have made it resistant to the vaccine to this point.

And About Treatments

  • Some people tried to drag me into an argument about treatments on social media again yesterday.
    • I do love it (air quotes here) when people say to me, “I got Covid and I took hydroxychloroquine and it cured me.
    • As if they were not going to be cured at all if they did not take it.
    • Just because you or someone you know took a substance and did not die, that does not mean that the substance worked.
    • I know people who got Covid and chewed bubble gum and did not die.
    • Does that mean that the bubble gum cured them?
      • I hope not and if you do not understand that, then I’ll just have to let Darwin sort that out.
      • And if you don’t get that reference, you have no business in this discussion anyway.

 

Alzheimer’s Disease

The Alzheimer’s Association works to end Alzheimer’s and all other dementia —

o          by accelerating research,

o          driving risk reduction and early detection,

o          and maximizing quality care and support.

Questions for Mary

  • What is the difference between Alzheimer’s and dementia?
  • What are some of the signs of Alzheimer’s?
  • Where are we with early detection?
  • What should people do if they notice a loved one is showing signs of Alzheimer’s?
  • What’s happening with treatment?
  • What should you expect if you or a loved one gets diagnosed with Alzheimer’s or another form of dementia?
  • What are some of the resources that the Alzheimer’s Association has for caregivers and people living with Alzheimer’s?
  • How can people get involved with the Alzheimer’s Association?

 

Tagged With: Alzheimer's Association Georgia Chapter, Alzheimers, alzheimers association, Caregivers, COVID-19, dementia, Dr. Jim Morrow, Mary Caldwell, Omicron Variant, To Your Health With Dr. Jim Morrow, Village Medical

  • « Previous Page
  • 1
  • …
  • 159
  • 160
  • 161
  • 162
  • 163
  • …
  • 277
  • Next Page »

Business RadioX ® Network


 

Our Most Recent Episode

CONNECT WITH US

  • Email
  • Facebook
  • LinkedIn
  • Twitter
  • YouTube

Our Mission

We help local business leaders get the word out about the important work they’re doing to serve their market, their community, and their profession.

We support and celebrate business by sharing positive business stories that traditional media ignores. Some media leans left. Some media leans right. We lean business.

Sponsor a Show

Build Relationships and Grow Your Business. Click here for more details.

Partner With Us

Discover More Here

Terms and Conditions
Privacy Policy

Connect with us

Want to keep up with the latest in pro-business news across the network? Follow us on social media for the latest stories!
  • Email
  • Facebook
  • Google+
  • LinkedIn
  • Twitter
  • YouTube

Business RadioX® Headquarters
1000 Abernathy Rd. NE
Building 400, Suite L-10
Sandy Springs, GA 30328

© 2026 Business RadioX ® · Rainmaker Platform

BRXStudioCoversLA

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of LA Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversDENVER

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Denver Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversPENSACOLA

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Pensacola Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversBIRMINGHAM

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Birmingham Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversTALLAHASSEE

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Tallahassee Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversRALEIGH

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Raleigh Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversRICHMONDNoWhite

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Richmond Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversNASHVILLENoWhite

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Nashville Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversDETROIT

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Detroit Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversSTLOUIS

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of St. Louis Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversCOLUMBUS-small

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Columbus Business Radio

Coachthecoach-08-08

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Coach the Coach

BRXStudioCoversBAYAREA

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Bay Area Business Radio

BRXStudioCoversCHICAGO

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Chicago Business Radio

Wait! Don’t Miss an Episode of Atlanta Business Radio