John Ray, Author at Business RadioX ® Page

GNFCC North Fulton HR Forum: Re-engaging Employees

May 21, 2020 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

GNFCC North Fulton HR Forum: Re-engaging Employees

00:00 /

GNFCC North Fulton HR Forum: Re-engaging Employees (“GNFCC 400 Insider,” Episode 38)

The pandemic-induced business environment has created a host of unique HR challenges, including managing work at home employees, interviewing and hiring virtually, and providing a safe environment for employees returning to the workplace. Five leading North Fulton-based HR professionals contributed to a GNFCC HR Forum panel discussion on these topics and much more. The host of “The GNFCC 400 Insider” is GNFCC CEO Kali Boatright, and the show is presented by the Greater North Fulton Chamber of Commerce and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®. Business RadioX is the Media Sponsor for this series of Economic Recovery Forums.

Moderator:

Misty Fernandez, Georgia Power

HR Professionals Featured in this Forum:

Michael Young
HR Site Head – JCM/JCD, R&D Quality & AVS
Alcon

Michael Young’s passion has been to connect with people by connecting to the hearts and minds of all those that he encounters. As a child Michael always knew he wanted to be an Educator, he chose the corporate route where he finds fulfillment in Human Resources by connecting people with opportunity. From his days in High School to now he has directed camp programs for Inner City Youth, served on boards for institutions that focus on education, and taught at Vacation Bible School.

In the corporate world, after developing talent in support of several departments across several industries, Michael began working with Alcon in 2016. Today Michael is the HR Site Head for John’s Creek where he continues to connect opportunity to Alcon’s vast talent pool to serve our patients to See Brilliantly.

Julie Weith Smith, MBA-HRM, SHRM-SCP, SPHR
President and CEO
Custom Human Resource Solutions (CHRS)

Custom Human Resource Solutions (CHRS) was founded in 2007 and provides HR strategy and practitioner services to small and medium sized business across the country. Julie Smith is the President and CEO of CHRS and has been practicing human resources for more than 30 years. She has earned a bachelor’s of science degree in business management and an MBA with a concentration in Human Resources Management, and holds a Professional in Human Resources (PHR-practitioner) and Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR-strategist) designation which identifies depth and breadth of HR knowledge on a national level. Julie’s high-level HR competence is credited through the Society of Human Resources Management (SHRM) through her achievement of the SHRM-SCP designation (Senior Certified Professional).

Julie has been recognized for industry achievements throughout her career including such honors as being named Top HR Professional and recognized as a Business Rising Star and top Women in Business – San Fernando Valley Business Journal. She also provides industry commentary on multiple media channels such as CNN Online, Georgia Public Broadcasting (GPB) and NPR. Julie was featured in Voyage Atlanta Magazine in their Trending category for 2017 and in the Atlanta Journal Constitution for Best of Atlanta 2018.

Jim Cichanski
President and CEO
Flex HR, Inc.

Jim’s experience includes operational HR management knowledge globally in 32 countries and has merged or transitioned well over 350 companies.

Jim also spent 26 years in the Army National Guard achieving the rank of Colonel, was inducted into the Officer Candidate School Hall of Fame, and received numerous awards including the Legion of Merit. Jim has served or is serving on several boards, was an inside board member of 17 companies and is an angel investor is start-up in several Atlanta firms.

Jim was recognized by the North Fulton Chamber of Commerce as the Small Businessperson of the year and was also listed in Catalyst Magazine as 1 of 18 Companies, CEO’s in Atlanta would like to own. Outsourcing Gazette magazine listed Flex HR as the “Top Most Promising HR & Staffing Service Vendors of 2015”. Inc. Magazine in September 2008, 2012 and 2013 recognized Flex HR, Inc. as an Inc 5000 “Fastest Growing Privately Held Companies in America”. Jim is married to his wife for 47 years, has two daughters and 4 grandchildren.

In the past 2 months Jim conducted over 30 COVID-19 Zoom Webinars touching more then 5,000 small companies in helping direct the Human Capital aspects of this epidemic.

Sonya Buckley
Chief People Officer
Hire Dynamics

Sonya is a Staffing Industry Professional with over 20 years of experience in the Atlanta market. She brings a wealth of knowledge in Senior Executive leading Talent Acquisition, Leadership Development,Human Resources, retention strategies and building a best place to work culture. Sonya has a proven track record in professional recruitment, management, leadership development and succession planning.

Sonya specializes in “Top Grading” methodologies. She has built and transformed a talent acquisition organization resulting in an industry leading retention rate. She has built several innovative initiatives to build leadership depth and entry level apprentice programs. Sonya’s top human capital metric is attracting, engaging and retaining top talent.She has led leadership development and spearheadedEmerging, Growing and Transformation leadership programs to support the growth of Hire Dynamics.

With Hire Dynamics tripling in size over the past three years, she has been instrumental in building a best place to work culture in all the markets they serve.In addition, she works with clients to develop their leaders and culture.At Hire Dynamics, our believe is that “Every Experience Matters”. Her greatest success is building a workforce that delivers consistently a great experience for over 62,000 talent placed in 2019 and over1500 clients served. For the past 10 years, Hire Dynamics has been ranked in the top 2% in the staffing industry clearly rated net promoter program.

Sonya is active in the American Staffing Association (ASA) taking leadership roles inWomen in leadership and Staffing as a career. She served as President of the Georgia Staffing Association and was on the board for 5 years. She is a Penn State graduate.

Mark Bryan
Director, Field and Segment Marketing
Verizon

Mark Bryan is director – Field and Segment Marketing – Verizon Business Group for Verizon, the largest wireless provider with the nation’s largest 4G LTE network. In his role, Bryan is responsible for Marketing activities supporting the $12B Business Markets organization.

During his 14 years with Verizon, Bryan has held positions in the company’s Indirect Sales, Business Sales and Marketing channels as well as its Business Transformation organization. Bryan is a member of the Greater North Fulton Chamber of Commerce’s Board of Directors and is the Chairman of the Board for Haiti Outreach. He holds a Bachelor of Business Administration degree in Finance from Mercer University and is a certified Lean/Six Sigma Black Belt.

About GNFCC and “The GNFCC 400 Insider”

North Fulton Mayor's Roundtable — Kali Boatright, President and CEO of GNFCC

“The GNFCC 400 Insider” (formerly “North Atlanta’s Bizlink”) is presented by the Greater North Fulton Chamber of Commerce (GNFCC) and is hosted by Kali Boatright, President and CEO of GNFCC. The Greater North Fulton Chamber of Commerce is a private, non-profit, member-driven organization comprised of over 1400 business enterprises, civic organizations, educational institutions and individuals. Their service area includes Alpharetta, Johns Creek, Milton, Mountain Park, Roswell and Sandy Springs. GNFCC is the leading voice on economic development, business growth and quality of life issues in North Fulton County.

The GNFCC promotes the interests of our members by assuming a leadership role in making North Fulton an excellent place to work, live, play and stay. They provide one voice for all local businesses to influence decision makers, recommend legislation, and protect the valuable resources that make North Fulton a popular place to live.

For more information on GNFCC and its North Fulton County service area, follow this link or call (770) 993-8806.

For the complete show archive of “The GNFCC 400 Insider,” go to GNFCC400Insider.com. “The GNFCC 400 Insider” is produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Decision Vision Episode 66: Should I Fire My Underperforming Employee? – An Interview with Peter Rosen, HR Strategies & Solutions

May 21, 2020 by John Ray

Decision Vision

Decision Vision Episode 66: Should I Fire My Underperforming Employee? - An Interview with Peter Rosen, HR Strategies & Solutions

00:00 /

Decision Vision Episode 66: Should I Fire My Underperforming Employee? – An Interview with Peter Rosen, HR Strategies & Solutions

If I decide to fire my underperforming employee, how should I go about it? How do I mitigate the risks? Experienced HR professional Peter Rosen joins “Decision Vision” to discuss these questions and much more with Host Mike Blake. “Decision Vision” is presented by Brady Ware & Company.

Peter Rosen, HR Strategies & Solutions

Peter Rosen is the Founder and President of HR Strategies & Solutions. Known for his ability to quickly build trust and credibility with his clients and colleagues, Peter Rosen, a thoughtful and practical human resources executive and consultant, has a unique capacity to understand and assimilate into a variety of corporate cultures at different stages of the corporate lifecycle. With over 25 years of experience in both domestic and international companies, he is able to tailor his approach to specific HR situations and translate his larger corporate experience into start-up and growing environments. His contagious enthusiasm and optimism make working with him a pleasurable experience. Peter’s easy-going manner and hands-on approach helps him connect with people, understand their needs, and gain buy in for strategies that strengthen both organizations and individuals.

Peter uses a practical, business-focused approach to HR issues based on both theory and experience. He has built human resources capability and the infrastructure to support it in a variety of environments, from start-ups to Fortune 500 companies in the financial services, consumer products, technology, healthcare, and staffing industries. He has held strategic roles in established companies like The Coca-Cola Company, SmithKline Beecham Clinical Laboratories, Norrell Corporation, Alexander and Alexander, Capital One Financial Services and TeamStaff. As the founder and owner of a boutique human resources consulting firm, he now focuses on helping growing companies establish and implement HR infrastructure and works with their senior executives on strategic HR issues.

An expert in strategic planning, employee relations, independent investigations of employee complaints, executive coaching, business development, culture building, and team building, Peter has made significant contributions to companies throughout his career and has enhanced both individual and team effectiveness. He has developed and executed strategic human resources action plans, improved executive teams’ communication and performance, led the successful integration of acquisitions, worked collaboratively with dozens of labor unions, designed and gained acceptance for new departmental organizational structures, created and implemented new benefits programs, and successfully led change initiatives.

Peter’s reputation is one of integrity, trust, innovation, and common sense, backed up by solid experience, a strong educational background, sound business judgment, and self-awareness. He possesses a Bachelor of Science in Industrial and Labor Relations from Cornell University and a J.D. from St. John’s University School of Law with an emphasis on employment law. Peter is a member of the New York and Georgia Bars and is certified in the Marshall Goldsmith Executive Coaching Process, the Prosci Change Management Process and Tools, and the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.

Michael Blake, Brady Ware & Company

**Mike Blake, Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series**

Michael Blake is Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series and a Director of Brady Ware & Company. Mike specializes in the valuation of intellectual property-driven firms, such as software firms, aerospace firms and professional services firms, most frequently in the capacity as a transaction advisor, helping clients obtain great outcomes from complex transaction opportunities. He is also a specialist in the appraisal of intellectual properties as stand-alone assets, such as software, trade secrets, and patents.

Mike has been a full-time business appraiser for 13 years with public accounting firms, boutique business appraisal firms, and an owner of his own firm. Prior to that, he spent 8 years in venture capital and investment banking, including transactions in the U.S., Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.

Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm which helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality. Brady Ware services clients nationally from its offices in Alpharetta, GA; Columbus and Dayton, OH; and Richmond, IN. The firm is growth minded, committed to the regions in which they operate, and most importantly, they make significant investments in their people and service offerings to meet the changing financial needs of those they are privileged to serve. The firm is dedicated to providing results that make a difference for its clients.

Decision Vision Podcast Series

“Decision Vision” is a podcast covering topics and issues facing small business owners and connecting them with solutions from leading experts. This series is presented by Brady Ware & Company. If you are a decision maker for a small business, we’d love to hear from you. Contact us at decisionvision@bradyware.com and make sure to listen to every Thursday to the “Decision Vision” podcast. Past episodes of “Decision Vision” can be found here. “Decision Vision” is produced and broadcast by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Visit Brady Ware & Company on social media:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brady-ware/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bradywareCPAs/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BradyWare

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bradywarecompany/

Show Transcript

Intro: Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions. Brought to you by Brady Ware & Company. Brady Ware is a regional, full-service accounting and advisory firm that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make vision a reality.

Mike Blake: And welcome to Decision Vision, the podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we discuss the process of decision making on a different topic from the business owner’s or executive’s perspective. We aren’t necessarily telling you what to do, but we can put you in a position to make an informed decision on your own and understand when you might need help along the way.

Mike Blake: My name is Mike Blake and I’m your host for today’s program. I’m a Director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia. Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast, which is being recorded in Atlanta per social distancing protocols. If you like this podcast, please subscribe on your favorite podcast aggregator, and please consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Mike Blake: So, today’s topic is, Should I fire my Underperforming Employee? And we’re getting back to a little bit to normal topics. We still do have a couple of COVID-related business topics that are along the way. But every once in a while, it is nice to, at least, sort of pretend that we’re back to normal. And at some point, this whole thing is going to end. We are going to return to work. We are going to reopen restaurants, and cafes, and bars, and hotels. And God help us, so to actually get back on cruise ships as well.

Mike Blake: But we do have businesses to run. And although something like a quarter of the economy, maybe almost a third has an effect and had the pause button put on on it, that still means that two-thirds or three-quarters of the economy is still running in some fashion. And my hope is that most of you that are listening are in that two-thirds to three-quarters that are still functioning. But if you’re not, we certainly wish you a speedy transition to whatever positive outcome awaits you over the horizon.

Mike Blake: And speaking of positive outcomes, today’s topic is, Should I Fire My Underperforming Employee? And why do I say that that’s a positive outcome? Well, we’re going to learn just how important it is to make a decision as to whether or not an employee is going to make it because one of the things you learn as you as you hire and manage people is that certain underperforming employees represent a disproportionate draw of management, time and energy, employee morale, and overall organizational effectiveness.

Mike Blake: And it actually reminds me of a verse from an Elton John song called Empty Garden, which was put out in 1982 as a song about the assassination of John Lennon. And one of the lyrics that song written by Bernie Taupin is “It’s funny how one insect can damage so much grain.” And an underperforming employee can indeed damage a ton of grain. If you have a hundred employees, and one person is just not making it, it’s more than a 1% in overall effectiveness of the organization.

Mike Blake: And this topic is is particularly poignant today because as I sit here recording this, or we sit here recording this on April 10th, we have seen something on the order of 12 million people in the last four weeks declare themselves unemployed. And that’s probably undercounting because the phone lines are jammed up like a talk show host basically, and you can’t get in. So, all of a sudden, the music stopped, and we found out there are a lot fewer chairs than there are people that want to fill them.

Mike Blake: And then, it’s hard to ignore the reality that almost four years ago, we elected a president, whether you love him or not love him, the fact of the matter is his claim to fame in the last 20 years has been the catchphrase, “You’re fired,” right? And I think that has created a lot of mystique around him and really shows just how important it is to fire people, the right people at the right time because I think a lot of the appeal of that catch phrase and the show, The Apprentice, is that everybody has worked with somebody in their career that just is desperately begging to be fired.

Mike Blake: And when they’re not, and when it takes a long time for that person to be fired, if they ever are, I mean, the Peter Principle would say that they’re promoted, but that person can be so toxic to the organization. And people who’ve had to live with, work around accommodates somebody who just is not a constructive part of the team, whether it’s due to personality, temperament, professional competence, or some cocktail of the three, that makes life miserable for people who come to a job every day that they otherwise like.

Mike Blake: And I think it’s that visceral connection with having to put up with somebody who doesn’t belong in the organization, but the people who are running the organization may not necessarily be as be close to that situation. And so, that scenario is allowed to fester. And therefore, when you see that play out on TV, I think there are a lot of people that sort of stand up and cheer. Now, I’ve never actually seen the show. I’m sort of going on on what I’ve heard about it, but I do think there’s something to that mindset and, we’ll see how it goes.

Mike Blake: Joining us today to help us kind of work through this is is Peter Rosen. And I’m so glad we have him on. And now I’ll introduce him formally in a second. But firing an employee is a traumatic experience, right? Even though it’s necessary. I think any cancer patient – and I have not been one, thank God – will tell you that that exercising and removing a tumor, particularly if it’s of any size, is a traumatic experience. It is painful. It can take a long time to recover from that. And even though it is necessary for the ongoing health of the body, it is still a difficult thing to do.

Mike Blake: And it probably should be a difficult thing to do. I don’t think it’s a good idea for businesses or employers to take a cavalier attitude to firing people. That’s not a good idea either because it creates a highly politicized environment in the organization. It leads to mistrust. It leads to management by fear. And management by fear can work for a small amount of time, but it generally does not work well in the long run. And I’m highly suspicious of anybody who claims that they’re very comfortable firing people. It usually means they’ve done that a lot. And if people find they have to fire employees a lot, the problem may not lie with the employees. But we’ll get to that in a second.

Mike Blake: So, joining us today is my friend, Peter Rosen, who is President of HR Strategies and Solutions, a boutique consultancy firm addressing the unmet human resource and organizational needs of companies from startups to large organizations. Human Resources Strategies and Solutions provides human resources, leadership and expertise. They enable growth, improve efficiency, and prevent problems. From human resource strategy development to human resource recruitment, they do it all. Their clients recognize the importance of having a strong culture resulting in an aligned, motivated and engaged workforce. They’re committed from the very top to doing the right thing and to doing doing things right.

Mike Blake: Known for his ability to quickly build trust and credibility with his clients and colleagues, Peter Rosen, a thoughtful and practical human resource executive and consultant, has a unique capacity to understand and assimilate into a variety of corporate cultures at different stages of the corporate lifecycle. With over 25 years of experience in both domestic and international companies, he’s able to tailor his approach to specific HR situations and translate his larger corporate experience into startup and growing environments. His contagious enthusiasm and optimism make working with him a pleasurable experience. Peter’s easygoing manner and hands-on approach helps them connect with people, understand their needs, and gain buy-in for strategies that strengthen both organizations and individuals. But he’s going to bring the goods today. Peter, thanks so much for coming on the program.

Peter Rosen: Oh, you’re very welcome. Thanks for mentioning that. I wasn’t going to miss this for for anything.

Mike Blake: So, before we get started, I noticed something today as I was preparing for the show. You and I have something in common, and that we are both big east guys. You actually hold a Law Degree from St. John’s University, do you not?

Peter Rosen: I do.

Mike Blake: So, you and I harken back to the days of big east basketball actually meant something. I’m a Hoya myself. So, we go back to the days of Chris Mullin and Patrick Ewing battling it out in the Big East. Later, Alonzo Mourning and so forth. But that was a different time. So, do you find that your law degree comes into play at all anymore with what you do in human resources?

Peter Rosen: Yes, absolutely. It was interesting because when my career got started, I was actually a trial attorney down here with the federal government, with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Mike Blake: Oh.

Peter Rosen: And I was a litigator. In a sense, litigating charges of discrimination brought by employees of companies like Georgia Power Company, a lot of the big organizations back at the time. And unbeknownst to me, there was another large corporation here called the Coca-Cola Company who was beginning to experience some of the strains of discrimination, affirmative action, and they were looking to start, at at the time, it was called an EO department. And somebody reached out to me, and I interviewed, and I got hired in the position, ended up being in the HR department, not the legal department. So, over the years, I have always kept up my legal knowledge. And I was a member – I’m, now, I’m inactive member of the bar because I get a lot of referrals from employment lawyers. And so, I don’t compete with them whatsoever. But I think my last five years at Coca-Cola, I was the head of HR for Europe and Africa. So, that’s how I got into the human resource piece of things.

Mike Blake: Well, I’ll say I did not know that. So, I’m glad you brought some color to that. So, you’re a bigger expert than I thought. So, again, thanks for coming on the program. The first question, I want establish kind of a foundation here for the rest of our conversation. And so, let’s start off with this. Why do companies find or managers find that they have to fire people?

Peter Rosen: You have about two hours for me to list the reasons why companies could decide to fire somebody.

Mike Blake: I’ve got the time if you do. It’s not like there’s a restaurant we can go get lunch at.

Peter Rosen: That’s why I have my coffee right here next to me. It could be anything from performance, a bad hire. The company made a mistake in hiring. It could be the person is a total jerk, which, by the way, is very often, the reason why companies would fire somebody. They could be toxic. They could be a bully. They are violating company policy. They could be sexually harassing. So, there are just so many reasons why a company would want to or choose to fire somebody.

Mike Blake: And the common thread among all those things is that they pose an effective, clear and present danger to the ongoing viability of the companies. Is that a fair way to wrap that up?

Peter Rosen: Yes. And the smaller the company, the bigger the impact. With larger companies, a lot of these toxic employees or poor performers may be in a particular department, the accounting department, marketing department. So, that’s the group that typically would be impacted, but it’s not the whole corporation.

Mike Blake: So, most the people that I interface with, work with, worked for, to a person, thankfully, I think they find it very difficult to fire people. We’ll come back to why that isn’t necessarily the best thing in the world. But does anybody find firing easy?

Peter Rosen: I would hope not, first of all. I would hope nobody finds firing-

Mike Blake: I am going to guess it’s the odd psychopath out there that just sort of just likes firing people, I guess. But I think people approach firing from a place of a lot of consternation, right?

Peter Rosen: A very insecure boss or ego-driven person, actually, would probably enjoy it. but it’s their only way to avoid conflict or avoid challenge because they’re insecure. That’s when they may like doing it.

Mike Blake: So, for those of us who are maybe – I don’t want to say those of us. It gets misinterpreted. What are the dangers or risks of firing somebody? I want to ask this sort of a two-dimensional perspective. One is, what do most people think the dangers and risk of firing someone is or are? And then, what are they in actuality? Are the risks and dynamics of firing somebody, in actuality, do they meet up with kind of the anxiety that somebody feels before they’re going to pull the trigger on that?

Peter Rosen: It really depends on how the firing occurs. And there are risks to firing somebody. There are probably greater risks to not firing somebody if, in fact, it’s appropriate. And we can get into it later, the different ways you can accommodate somebody that you want to fire. But given our legal environment and the risks of that, there are ways to address it to minimize but not eliminate the risks.

Mike Blake: So, there’s a widely used expression of hiring slowly and firing quickly. I think I heard it coined out in Silicon Valley, but that may not necessarily be the origin. But can you describe kind of what that means? I’m sure you’re familiar with the expression. And do you agree with that philosophy?

Peter Rosen: I am familiar with the expression. I generally do agree with it. The most important thing is the hiring process. And I work with a lot of my clients on developing a more robust hiring process to really better assess candidates, to really understand what you are looking for for a person to bring to the organization. And we don’t slow it down, but we make it very robust. And I’m actually involved in the final interviews with a lot of my clients. And I also make it very clear that the CEOs and business owners agree that the hiring manager is the one that’s actually responsible for the decision to hire. What the process is doing is giving them more information and more data on which to make their decision. And they’re not doing it based on they just like the person or they’re referred by somebody. So, it’s a very thorough process.

Peter Rosen: So, that’s where the term comes, “Hire slow, fire quick.” Now, fire quick seems a little – I’m not sure I agree with that terminology, but I have been a student of terminations and firings pretty much my whole career. And there are studies out there too where when any time there’s a big change in an organization, or you ask a business owner or a CEO, “Okay, you’ve had a great career. What would you have done differently in your career? What would be one of the biggest mistakes or things you would have done differently?” And inevitably, it’s, “I should have gotten rid of certain people a lot quicker.”

Mike Blake: Now, interesting. On the hiring practice, I thoroughly agree with that practice. Even when I bring in somebody that is as junior, very junior in our organization, I still do like to have them meet a lot of people. And so, my colleagues do look at me like I’m an escaped mental patient when I’m using partner time to have them interview and spend a day for what is in effect an entry level position. But I agree with your observation. Just having different perspectives, different information, lots of information, I think makes the likelihood of a successful hire so much greater.

Mike Blake: And you also you also learn something about an applicant to when you take a slow hiring process, I think. And maybe this will be a different topic in a program, but I think you learn a little bit about how committed the employee is to pursuing the process, your learn about their patience, you learn about their mental toughness and their mental stamina, you learn about their emotional stability. And I think you correctly point it out, it’s not about hiring slowly but it’s about hiring thoroughly. But hiring thoroughly necessitates slowing things down just a little bit, I guess.

Peter Rosen: Yes. And again, it becomes very logistical. You can move fairly quickly because I have found, again, for the hiring manager, the debriefing sessions because, also, I am a big advocate of what I call group interviews – more than two, or three, or four people from the company interviewing the candidate at the same time. [1], that’s more efficient. [2], it avoids a candidate going from person to person being asked the same questions by people that are not really very good at interviewing. And that could turn off a good candidate to the company.

Peter Rosen: The other thing too is that there’s an exercise we can get in to later that I work with my business owners and executives. It’s called the ABC Exercise. But let’s just, for now, an A player is your top player, he person that represents the culture, they’re performing, everybody loves working with them. The only people you want in interviews are your A players because the B and C players are going to end up being threatened by good – and it comes across. It’s amazing how it comes across in an interview where they start challenging the person, and it becomes very uncomfortable. So, setting up the hiring process is the key to reducing the need to fire people.

Mike Blake: So, I think in most cases, and we’ll talk about the other scenario in a second, but in most cases, the decision to fire, usually, comes. And, again, we’re talking about firing somebody for underperformance, not because of economic necessity that just creates a mass layoff scenario but for performance. Most companies do try to give an employee an opportunity to make corrections before firing them. Part of that, I think, is a legal consideration. Part of that, I think, is a good business practice. In your experience, how much time or, for lack of a better term, how much rope should you give an employee to make those corrections before you decide, “Well, this just isn’t going to work out. We got to make a change here”?

Peter Rosen: It really depends on the performance issue. Let’s use an example of somebody that is just has a history of getting things, projects, or whatever part of a project they’re working on late. They’re late in getting things done. They don’t meet deadlines. That is worth confronting directly saying, “From now on, if you’re not going to meet a deadline, you need to let us know,” because they hadn’t been letting them know, and you’re basically on final warning ’cause we can’t afford. It’s not fair to anybody else. You give them the chance. You give them whatever meager, 30 days. And the first time during that 30 days, if they’re late, you say, “Listen, we already warned you. It’s time to move on.”

Mike Blake: So, that brings to mind, the depends, I think, brings to mind different scenarios. One scenario, it seems like, is there’s an issue of performance in terms of how you go about your business. That’s sort of behavioral, right, whether it’s time management, whether it’s communication, as you point out here. And then, there can be underlying issues where maybe the person has good “work habits,” but maybe they don’t have quite the skill set that you thought they did when you interviewed them and they walked through the door, right? Maybe there’s a flaw in interviewing, or bad job description, or something happened, right? And maybe the issue is … or maybe it is a behavioral issue but training is required. Does that timeline get altered perhaps if it’s an issue that you think might be remediated with training versus, “Hey, this is not going well. Fix it”?

Peter Rosen: If it is a particular process or skill set that training could lend itself to, as long as the person has a good attitude, it’s worth trying it. But if the company made a mistake in hiring the person, they thought the … and this happens a lot in smaller companies. They thought they were really looking for this when, in fact, they really needed that. And if they made a mistake, what you do is you sit down with the employees and, “Listen, this is not working out. We want to be fair to you. We’ll give you 30 days of severance to help you look for another role, but we do need to part ways.”

Mike Blake: So, let’s go back to the first issue where there’s a fundamental issue. It’s not necessarily a hiring mistake, but it’s something that is fundamental to the way the employee approaches their job. And if you’ve done things right, you’ve issued some kind of warning. There’s been some kind of review process that makes it known to the employee that there’s, I guess, for lack of a better term, an effect on notice. I’m curious, in that scenario, how often is it that employees actually then take that and are able to make the meaningful corrections that stick versus once you get to that point, do a lot or most employees really kind of never make it? Does that question make any sense?

Peter Rosen: Yeah. Well, I think statistically, and I will not swear to this, but statistically, for my experience, I would say more employees don’t make it than make it. And again, I work with-

Mike Blake: That’s my belief too.

Peter Rosen: And I think, probably, if there’s data out there, and there probably is, it’s going to support that. With performance reviews, and I work with a lot of my companies too, and there are a lot of good performance reviews systems out there or HR systems that have performance reviews built into them. And one in particular, which I really like, but it includes quarterly peer feedback, and it is so eye opening to hear the peers talk about it. You sit down, you’d be subtle and be discreet. You can say, “Hey, Bob said this about you,” but it gives the manager, “Hey, wait a second. This person has really not been working well with the graphics department,” or this and that. And then, you have to deal with that. And if it’s not addressed, then, again, I think most times, it’s not. I mean, it’s addressed but not corrected, then you have the documentation and the reason to make the move.

Mike Blake: And I want to touch upon something that you mentioned because I think this is very important. When it becomes necessary to fire an employee, and if he can’t look back and do a postmortem, if you will, or after-action analysis, how often is it that the employee may well have been fine, but the employer just simply made the wrong hire? Maybe they made a poor evaluation, they didn’t ask the right interview questions, or maybe they just tried to take shortcuts. Talking again about hiring too quickly. Maybe they didn’t do the diligence, such as checking references. How often is it the company’s fault that they’ve got a square peg in the round hole?

Peter Rosen: I would say it happens frequently.

Mike Blake: And do you agree that that happens frequently because … is it because … I mean, a few reasons. And sometimes, I see this, there’s a danger of, even in my own firm. I’m not going to tell you that it’s actually true, but I know there’s a danger here. Does it happen because when you feel like you’re understaffed that people think about just sort of the warm body, and we’ll figure it out, or do employers have underdeveloped talent acquisition skills or some other systemic issue within the firm that leads to these outcomes?

Peter Rosen: I would say that there is a lacking of recognizing the importance of doing it right. I mean, a lot of the type, especially in professional service firms like you, like your firm, there are a lot of people, a lot of consultants, and I worked for Capital One for a number of years, and they were made up of all these McKinsey and Boston Consulting Group people that got paid to be right. And when the hiring decision, when somebody in a professional services firm, they just trust their own judgment rightfully or wrongfully. “I’m right. I made my assessment,” and that value, the input that they would get from so many other sources. They just want to get it done. And then, when it’s on the back end, that’s when the problems occur. And another benefit of having a little more robust hiring process is you give the candidate more time to really see the culture in the organization. So, they ultimately can make a better decision for themselves.

Mike Blake: I think there’s a lot too. I think there’s there’s a lot to that self-selection. I think it comes in two places. One, if you’d like a candidate to kind of withdraw if they see that there is not a good fit in advance. And I also think, going back to the negative review, I would like an employee, particularly if the employee thinks are doing a good job, right, and then you tell them that they’re not, I would like to see an employee then kind of put their resumé out on the street at that point because it’s one thing. And the people who can’t be self-aware and you say, “Hey, look. You’re not doing things one, two and three. You need to fix them.” And there are people that will deny and say, “No, I’m doing a great job.” No, you’re out of order. But on the other hand, there are people that say, “I think I’m okay. But this, really, is a warning shot. And maybe I’m just going to make everybody’s job easier and find a better fit for myself.” Do you think there’s something to that?

Peter Rosen: Yes, it happens very often. And I have a couple of clients, those owners or the CEO will work with somebody and say, “Listen, you’re a good person. This is just not working out,” they’ll start looking for a job. Maybe we’ll limit their function a little bit because we don’t want them to continue where they’re not performing and do the right thing. And especially when other employees in that organization really know that this person has been trying hard, they’re a decent person because every time you fire or don’t fire a person, there are a lot of repercussions within the organization.

Mike Blake: Yeah. And in our industry in accounting, we have a term called counseling out. For the most part, we try to avoid the Dr. Evil scenario where you push a button and the person just adheres through a trapdoor on the floor, and there’s fire that sort of burns them on the way out, but we try to have that conversation and say, “Look, for whatever reason, it’s not working out, but let’s do this discreetly and give you some time to find something new,” ’cause it’s easier to find a job when when you already have one. And it doesn’t mean the person’s a bad person.

Mike Blake: In our industry, public accounting is hard. And public accounting, particularly for a busy season, the mental and physical rigors of 55 plus billable hours from January 1st to April 15th, that is not for everyone. And for some reason, entry level, you may think you’re ready for it, but you don’t know if you’re ready for it until it actually happens. And for other people, maybe you’re ready for it when you’re aged 23. But then, you’re aged 27, you’re married, and you have a kid, life changes, right? And maybe you have decided that accounting is not going to be your thing. You don’t want to take part. It doesn’t make you a bad person. It doesn’t make you incompetent. It just means that a mismatch has developed from the demands of the job versus what you’re able and willing to provide to it. And so, I think that model of counseling people out, I think, is one that works well for us.

Peter Rosen: There is so many different ways to have a person leave. And that’s why it becomes so situational and so dependent on the organization, the culture, the person. And you remember, I know you remember Jack Welch.

Mike Blake: Yeah.

Peter Rosen: And Jack Welch had this matrix. Yeah, I think it was called the Culture Performance Matrix. And like if you have an employee that was performing really well, and they were really a great guy that they lived the culture, that’s a no-brainer, that person, you need to figure out a way to keep them. Then, you have, on the other hand, the person that’s totally underperforming and they’re a jerk, that also becomes very simply, you get rid of them. The questions, the difficulty becomes the person that is – and this happens very often in sales, they’re a rainmaker, performing like gangbusters, but they are abusive, they’re toxic, they have high turnover. I mean, I don’t find it that difficult, by the way, to make that decision, but a lot of business owners who’s dependent on the revenue would have some difficulty making that decision. And then, there is the person that is really, again, lives the culture, accepts the values, everybody loves working with them, but they’re just in the wrong job. That’s the person you give another shot to to try to find another role for them.

Mike Blake: Yeah, essentially, you’re bringing up the sales role because it’s so hard to walk away from revenue, right? The key worry, I think, in every business leader’s mind is, “Am I going to be generating enough revenue?” The thing that I wake up every morning worried about is, do I have enough projects to keep my people busy, and engaged, and to generate ROI of our department? The thing worry about when I wake up in the morning, the thing I worry about before I go to sleep at night. And in addition, because it’s so hard to hire a competent salesperson, I do think that employees probably wind up giving salespeople a lot more leeway than, perhaps, they should because of the perceived scarcity of that skill set of someone who can actually sell and wants to do it.

Mike Blake: But that other part of the matrix brings a question up that I want to ask anyway. So, it’s a great segue, which is what about the employee that isn’t an obvious fire, right? That’s in the lower-left hand quadrant, but it seems like a worthwhile person has sort of the right attitude, is smart, are there realistic alternatives to firing that person? Maybe it’s finding him a new job. Maybe it’s additional training. Maybe it’s something else, right? Are there other alternatives that can be looked at, so that you can salvage that asset?

Peter Rosen: The answer is yes and no. On my website in one of my articles, and I didn’t write the article, but I’ve contributed towards it, it was called the Transfer Trap. And back in the old day, and I think it’s still occurring now, if somebody was an issue, they just moved him to a different department and let that other department deal with it. That’s usually in larger corporations. That’s the transfer trap. And that person, because they didn’t want to fire him because they were uncomfortable, conflict-avoidant, or fearful of legal risks, whatever the reason may be, all you’re doing is taking a toxic particle and exposing it to more parts of the organization.

Mike Blake: Yeah. So, just shifting a problem from one person to another, basically. And maybe because you don’t have the guts to pull the trigger yourself.

Peter Rosen: And back in the day, and I hope it’s not done as much anymore, but the receptacle for problem employees was HR.

Mike Blake: Yeah.

Peter Rosen: And if you remember, during the FBI issue, I don’t know, three years ago, it was struck or something, one of them was taken out of his role and was assigned to the human resources department.

Mike Blake: Really?

Peter Rosen: Yes. So, I guess it still occurs.

Mike Blake: Interesting. So, one of the things that I think most business owners and executives are familiar with, at least, is the need for some kind of documentation prior to firing an employee, right? Because there is some legal exposure that we have to be aware of. You’ve been on the prosecuting end of some of that as I just learned at the start of this interview. How much documentation do you need to protect yourself prior to firing an employee?

Peter Rosen: The most documentation that you need is consistent for every employee that gets terminated. The amount of documentation also decreases the higher up you are in the organization. If somebody is performing more day-to-day tasks that can be measured, then you need to document not getting things in on time and things like that. But as long as you end up letting the person know, and you’re consistent in how you apply it through all your organizations with all your people, you should be fine. That doesn’t mean you’re not going to get a charge or a lawsuit against you, but the point is you’re just doing it the right way. And the higher you are, usually, it’s a personality issue, it’s a bullying issue, it’s communications issue, it’s more interpersonal the higher you go, typically.

Mike Blake: So, now, in an ideal world, you want to kind of have some sort of documentation that presumably describe … again, you’re talking about having a consistent firing process. I imagine, also, there’s some documentation to document that you have communicated concerns about performance prior to firing somebody, right?

Peter Rosen: Yes.

Mike Blake: And it’s important to point out that a lawsuit is always … I think a lawsuit is always a risk, right? Because at the end of the day, all you need to levy a lawsuit is a lawyer and a judge is willing to take the case. And if you get those two things, it can be a lawsuit regardless of the merits of the case. It’s rare to get them dismissed. But what if you don’t have the documentation? And that may arise for a number of reasons, and I want to get to one in a minute, but maybe you’re just a small organization or maybe you just, frankly, are not that great at HR, or you’ve expanded very rapidly and, again, you just don’t have the documentation, does that mean that the problem employee gets a free pass because you don’t have the documentation to back it up, or you have to wait until documentation can catch up? And if you’re in that position, what is that decision process look like now?

Peter Rosen: Okay. Well, since the company put themselves in that position, you have to adapt. And one way to adapt is saying, “Okay, do I want a lawsuit or an EEOC charge, whatever it may be – age, race, sex, whatever it may be, or do I want to pay some severance pay and offering this person knowing that, ‘Hey, I screwed up as a company, therefore it’s going to cost me, but it’s going to cost me a lot less than if I have to deal with a lawsuit?'” So, you just have to pay for it in a different way.

Mike Blake: So, I want to ask a question about a so-called zero tolerance policy. And I think we’ve heard that term a lot in the in the Me Too Movement, but you hear that you hear the term pop up a lot elsewhere. And the question I want to ask is this is, is a zero tolerance policy truly sustainable or more than anything, is that just sort of a buzzword that, in reality, gets nuanced somewhat?

Peter Rosen: Probably. Now, there is a niche of my business that I had not mentioned, which is I do a third-party, independent investigations of employee complaints.

Mike Blake: Oh.

Peter Rosen: Because of my background and whatever, I’m brought either by the employment lawyer themselves or by the company. So, as you mentioned, zero tolerance. If there is an allegation, zero tolerance can go as far as an allegation of can you get rid of them. But that, to me, is a horrible culture of the organization. What you do is you take an allegation seriously. You have it investigated either internally or through somebody like me. And then, I would end up making a recommendation, a third-party recommendation, because very often you’re going to find out that this was an isolated incident or there’s a pattern of it. So, you’re really not dealing with zero tolerance. Actually, the investigation is enabling you to dig deeper into the pattern or lack of pattern. So, I don’t agree. I don’t support in any way zero tolerance. But if somebody is found to have done something egregious after you’ve investigated it, then I would definitely support termination.

Mike Blake: Peter, so, what you’re talking about is interesting because I hadn’t I really thought about it this way, but I think it makes sense. When companies use the term zero tolerance policy, what they really mean is presumption of guilt on the part of the person that’s accused. And that’s not the same thing necessarily. I mean, I guess it is a zero tolerance policy but it’s a hyper zero tolerance policy as opposed to a much more more constructive application of zero tolerance policy in which there’s an actual fact-finding process and trying to ascertain whether or not there actually is merit to the accusations rather than just simply assuming they’re true and firing somebody, creating exposure that you don’t necessarily need to do.

Peter Rosen: It’s a company that is committed to taking employee complaints or allegations very seriously, but yet, at the same time, will bring in an independent investigator to dig deeper and provide the company with the facts that they need to know the weather on how they’re going to respond.

Mike Blake: So, we’re going to wrap up here. We’re running out of time. I want to be respectful. I know you have a lot of other things you got to do today. But a question I want to make sure that I sneak in here is, should you fire an employee for one mistake? We’ve seen the TV shows, somebody makes one mess up, and they wind up getting let go. Does that happen? Is there a case for that to happen in the real world? Or is that just something that makes good TV theater?

Peter Rosen: It’s like anything else, it depends. But generally, my answer would be we all make mistakes. Now, if somebody makes a mistake, and it’s an obvious mistake, and they don’t have the emotional intelligence, or the self-awareness to accept the fact that they made a mistake and learned from it, that’s a whole other issue. So, I would generally say no, firing for one mistake. Again, it’s an outburst where somebody punches somebody in the workplace, that is probably a determination for one mistake is appropriate.

Mike Blake: Yeah. So, as we have this interview on on April 10th, 2020, we’re in an unprecedented economy and unprecedented labor market, and one that there’s a lot of imbalance. As I mentioned at the outset, we have a lot of people that suddenly found themselves jobless through no fault of their own or even their businesses. And on the other hand, if you’re in the right industry, you cannot hire people fast enough and there’s a perception that maybe you do need just sort of warm bodies. In that kind of environment, does that change the firing dynamics in any way? Does an underperforming employee perversely have unusual leverage because you just sort of have to have a pair of hands doing things? So, what’s your view on that?

Peter Rosen: I would be consistent to the culture that you’ve been wanting to have in your organization. And again, it varies. The answer to that question really varies on the level of the employee. Now, if you were talking about a customer service rep that is maybe not as fast or as efficient as you would like because it’s so difficult to find people, then maybe you put up with it for a while. But if you have a manager of a call center or a manager of customer service reps that is not a very good manager and causing turnover, I would still you act and you address that situation.

Mike Blake: Peter, it has been a great conversation. I think our listeners are going to get a lot out of it. Everybody wrestles with this problem from from time to time. The only people who doesn’t is somebody who’s never managed, or fired or hired somebody. If somebody was to learn more about this topic, maybe get some advice from you, how can they contact you?

Peter Rosen: Well, there are two ways. The two best ways would be my email address, which is peter.rosen@hrsas.com. And my website is hrsas.com.

Mike Blake: So, that’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. I like to thank Peter Rosen of HR Strategies and Resources so much for joining us and sharing his expertise with us. We’ll be exploring a new topic each week. So, please tune in, so that when you’re making your next executive decision, you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy this podcast, please consider leaving a review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us, so that we can help them. Once again, this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision Podcast.

Jeff Lovejoy, Action Coach, and David McDonough, Modern Image

May 20, 2020 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

Jeff Lovejoy, Action Coach, and David McDonough, Modern Image

00:00 /

Jeff Lovejoy, Action Coach and David McDonough, Modern Image (North Fulton Business Radio, Episode 237)

Business coach Jeff Lovejoy joins the show to discuss issues businesses are facing in the pandemic, and David McDonough talks document and photo scanning. The host of “North Fulton Business Radio” is John Ray and the show is produced virtually by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX® in Alpharetta.

Jeff Lovejoy, Action Coach

As one of Atlanta’s leading business coaches, Jeff teach business owners how to run the kind of business they want and deserve. He gets them working ON the business —focusing on marketing, finance, leadership, service delivery—rather than working solely IN their business. And along the way, we achieve dramatic results.

In small and medium size businesses, strategy is frequently lacking but is a cornerstone to success. If you don’t have a strategy or don’t have a strategy that is working, call Jeff. You’ll start with a business growth plan that will be customized with the strategies and techniques that will get you started on what’s needed to launch you towards your vision.

These are the kinds of transformations Jeff’s clients achieve:

–Significant increase in your take-home income from your business, achieved by getting you to spend more time focused ON your business

–Dramatic increase in efficiency, achieved by installing processes that result in your business running more efficiently and smoothly

–Superior team, achieved by building an empowered team to help you achieve your goals

–Make better use of your time, achieved by developing plans, setting goals and holding you accountable

You can visit Jeff’s website, email him directly, or call 404-444-1836.

David McDonough, Modern Image

Modern Image is a local document and photo scanning company. They convert files, photos and media to digital format for compliance policies, easier sharing, enhanced security, or just to get it out of the way! No job is too big or too small and all work is done in-house, locally.

The owner, David McDonough is a native of New Orleans and had a business and family there, during Hurricane Katrina. Having seen the devastation that results from losing business records, personal papers and photos – can be overwhelming. Many businesses closed due to lost records – many people’s entire personal photo collection was lost – as was David’s family. They also offer photo organizing workshops, bootcamps and 1-1 work.

Email David for a DIY guide on how to get started, or visit the Modern Image website.

North Fulton Business Radio” is produced virtually from the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX® in Alpharetta. You can find the full archive of shows by following this link. The show is available on all the major podcast apps, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, iHeart Radio, Stitcher, TuneIn, and others.

Renasant Bank has humble roots, starting in 1904 as a $100,000 bank in a Lee County, Mississippi, bakery. Since then, Renasant has grown to become one of the Southeast’s strongest financial institutions with over $13 billion in assets and more than 190 banking, lending, wealth management and financial services offices in Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia and Florida. All of Renasant’s success stems from each of their banker’s commitment to investing in their communities as a way of better understanding the people they serve. At Renasant Bank, they understand you because they work and live alongside you every day.

Shane Jackson, Jackson Healthcare

May 15, 2020 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

Shane Jackson, Jackson Healthcare

00:00 /

Shane Jackson, Jackson Healthcare (North Fulton Business Radio, Episode 236)

Shane Jackson, President of Jackson Healthcare, joined “North Fulton Business Radio” to discuss the staffing problems hospitals and other healthcare providers face, healthcare heroes, how his healthcare staffing company is dealing with the pandemic, and much more. The host of “North Fulton Business Radio” is John Ray and the show is produced virtually by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX® in Alpharetta.

Jackson Health Care

Shane Jackson is the President of Jackson Healthcare. Jackson Healthcare is a family of highly specialized healthcare staffing, search and technology companies. With a mission to improve the delivery of patient care and the lives of everyone it touches, it helps healthcare facilities across the country serve more than 10 million patients each year. Backed by more than 1,500 associates and with over $1 billion in annual revenue, Jackson Healthcare is a top three U.S. healthcare staffing firm. In addition to being Great Place to Work certified, it is consistently recognized as an employer of choice, having appeared in consecutive years on Fortune’s Best Workplaces in Health Care and Biopharma, in 2019 on the Best Workplaces for Women and in 2018 on the Best Workplaces for Millennials lists. Learn more at www.jacksonhealthcare.com.

Questions and Topics in this Interview:

How Jackson Healthcare aligns clinicians to hospitals and other healthcare facilities
The impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on Jackson Healthcare
Why hospitals and other healthcare providers are suffering financially in this pandemic
how Jackson Healthcare mobilized doctors, critical care nurses, respiratory therapists, and other healthcare professionals across many states, including those most impacted by COVID-19
The staffing problems affecting hospitals as elective procedures begin again
How Jackson Healthcare is advising these clients
The positive stories and heroism of healthcare professionals across the country
How Jackson Healthcare’s company culture has served it well in a very stressful period

Julian Reid, The Entrepreneur’s Source

May 15, 2020 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

Julian Reid, The Entrepreneur's Source

00:00 /

Julian Reid, The Entrepreneur’s Source (North Fulton Business Radio, Episode 235)

Julian Reid, The Entrepreneur’s Source, joined the show to discuss how he helps individuals assess whether business ownership through a franchise is right for them. The host of “North Fulton Business Radio” is John Ray and the show is produced virtually by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX® in Alpharetta.

Julian Reid, Career Ownership Coach, The Entrepreneur’s Source

Take Ownership of Your Career One Proven Path to Entrepreneurship: Franchising! Julian Reid is an Award-winning Career Ownership Coach – and franchise owner – with The Entrepreneur’s Source.

WHAT is Julian’s Mission? “To help professionals assess their career possibilities and dreams – specializing in their exploration of business ownership and franchise opportunities”.

HOW Julian Helps Career Professionals: The process Julian follows is a *no cost* coaching approach, which takes his clients on a journey of self-discovery. The tools used are assessments, education, coaching, and access to hundreds of franchise business possibilities in dozens of industries. The net result: His clients arrive at a “point-of-clarity”, and then confidently embark on their next career venture with excitement – and a high probability of success!

The WHY behind Julian’s work: Because if you’ve ever wondered what it would be like to take ownership of your career destiny, be self-sufficient, and run your own business – without having to “invent” it, then you owe it to yourself to explore what’s possible! Many professionals feel like they’re stuck in a subservient job of “trading time for money”, and just know there’s a better way to make a living. Others are downsized, frustrated, entrepreneurial, or recently retired and don’t know WHERE to start looking for viable alternative career options. Julian helps his clients chart a course from “Your Career 1.0” to “Your Career 2.0”.

A strategic and tactical thinking leader, with engineering and organization management credentials, Julian is well acquainted with the strategies required for small business start-ups and franchise operations. Mail Boxes Etc. (now The UPS Store) business development, operations, and marketing was Julian’s first experience with franchising – over 20 years ago. Since then, he’s also helped small business owners with their critical needs for improved cash flow and funding for growth; in addition to his 7 years as a Career Ownership Coach.

Julian holds a BChE degree from Georgia Tech. He and his wife Lynn have 4 grown children and live in Canton, GA. He enjoys tennis, golf, skiing, college football, and spending time with friends and family. Julian also serves in several volunteer leadership roles at Woodstock City Church, an Atlanta area campus of North Point Ministries. For more information:    Schedule a ~15 minute phone meeting at jreid.YouCanBook.me , or  send a LinkedIn connection request. Julian can be reached at (770) 521-0698  or visit his website.

The Entrepreneur’s Source (“TES”) is the premier franchise coaching organization, dedicated to empowering potential entrepreneurs toward achieving their personal and professional goals through self-employment. For 35 years, TES has provided tens of thousands of people with the tools, answers, and opportunities they needed to improve their lives. Today, over 140 Career Ownership Coach franchisees comprise TES, which is recognized as the industry leader in franchise education, coaching, and the knowledge of franchise opportunities across North America.

Steve Fisher, B2B CFO

May 14, 2020 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

Steve Fisher, B2B CFO

00:00 /

Steve Fisher, B2B CFO (North Fulton Business Radio, Episode 234)

“I like to help business owners fall in love with their business again.” That’s Steve Fisher, B2B CFO, talking about how he installs systems and procedures which give business owners much more control over their business and peace of mind. The host of “North Fulton Business Radio” is John Ray and the show is produced virtually by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX® in Alpharetta.

Steve Fisher, Partner, B2BCFO

Steve Fisher helps owners of privately-held businesses manage, grow and eventually transition from their companies. He worked for several decades as the CFO for a nationwide financial services company and guided it from start up to over $90 million in annual revenue before successfully executing the company’s sale. He now offers that expertise and skill to business owners who are ready for a more strategic approach to growing and managing their companies.

Steve has an extensive background in financial and service industries, franchise business models, business integration and managing explosive growth. Steve holds a bachelor of science in Industrial Engineering and Operations Research from Virginia Tech. He has held a Series 27, Series 7, and Series 63 license.

Find out more about Steve at his website or by email. His Cumming, GA office number is 404-931-4430.

ProfitSense with Bill McDermott, Episode 9: Erik Christensen, Bulldog Movers, and Colin Blalock, Jones and Kolb

May 14, 2020 by John Ray

North Fulton Studio

ProfitSense with Bill McDermott, Episode 9: Erik Christensen, Bulldog Movers, and Colin Blalock, Jones and Kolb

00:00 /

ProfitSense with Bill McDermott, Episode 9: Erik Christensen, Bulldog Movers and Colin Blalock, Jones and Kolb

On this edition of “ProtitSense with Bill McDermott,” Erik Christensen of Bulldog Movers and Colin Blaylock of Jones and Kolb join host Bill McDermott to talk about their respective businesses. “ProfitSense with Bill McDermott” is broadcast by the North Fulton Studio of Business RadioX® in Alpharetta.

Erik Christensen, CEO, Bulldog Movers

Erik Christensen is the CEO of Bulldog Movers. Bulldog Movers is a full service moving, storage and logistics company. With its three wholly owned subsidiaries, Buckhead Movers, Classic Design Services and CV Fine Arts Services they provide the broadest range of local, long-distance and international services in the Southeast.

In addition to traditional high quality moving and storage that includes both residential and office and industrial moving and storage they also provide; last mile delivery and installation for decorators, designers and furniture dealers, fine arts storage, delivery and installation (they are the only approved fine arts storage location approved by both AXA and the Chubb Group), they are an approved TSA screening facility allowing us to deliver high value shipments directly the airport grounds without additional uncrating and screening, they provide high quality and fine arts custom crating suitable for international customs clearance, they have a full wood shop, furniture restoration shop and paint booth to restore and refinish fine furniture and they provide art framing and restoration.

Bulldog Movers knows of no moving and storage company in the United States that provides all of these services under one roof.

For more information visit their website or call 770-3183-772. You can also reach Erik by email.

Colin Blalock, Jones and Kolb

A shareholder with Jones and Kolb since 1986, Colin Blalock‘s practice concentration is in tax controversy, nonprofit organizations, entrepreneurial businesses and individuals. His prior experience includes working with the Examination Division of the IRS in Atlanta.

Colin is a member of the AICPA, the Georgia Society of Certified Public Accountants (GSCPA), the Georgia Society of Association Executives, the Financial Planning Association and the Atlanta Alumni of Revenue Agents.

Colin received the 2018 Meritorious Service Award (the highest award presented by the GSCPA) for his service to the profession. He is a Past Chair/President of the Georgia Society of CPAs and the Past Chair of the Gulf Coast Tax Exempt/Governmental Entities IRS Advisory Council. He currently serves as a Trustee (Past President) of the Georgia Federal Tax Conference. Colin is a prolific speaker on tax topics and facilitates several roundtable discussion groups. He is very active in his community serving on the Board of Directors of the Fowler YMCA.

Colin has a passion and particular expertise in body language. Two books he recommends on the subjects include The Secret Language of Success by David Lewis, and The Definitive Book of Body Language, by Allan and Barbara Pease.

Colin lives in Peachtree Corners with his wife, Jessica. He has two children and 4 grandchildren.

You can learn more about Jones and Kolb at the company website, or you can email Colin directly.

About Your Host, Bill McDermott

Bill McDermott is Founder and CEO of McDermott Financial Solutions. After over three decades working for both national and community banks, Bill uses his expert knowledge to assist closely held companies with improving profitability, growing their business and finding financing. Bill is passionate about educating business owners about pertinent topics in the banking and finance arena.

He currently serves as Treasurer for the Atlanta Executive Forum and has held previous positions as board member for the Kennesaw State University Entrepreneurship Center and Gwinnett Habitat for Humanity and Treasurer for CEO NetWeavers. Bill is a graduate of Wake Forest University and he and his wife, Martha have called Atlanta home for over 40 years. Outside of work, Bill enjoys golf, traveling and gardening.

Connect with Bill on LinkedIn and Twitter and follow McDermott Financial Solutions on LinkedIn.

GNFCC North Fulton Real Estate Forum: Real Estate Market Outlook

May 14, 2020 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

GNFCC North Fulton Real Estate Forum: Real Estate Market Outlook

00:00 /

North Fulton Real Estate Forum: Real Estate Market Outlook (“GNFCC 400 Insider,” Episode 37)

The outlook for North Fulton real estate, both commercial and residential, is much more uncertain today as the local economy absorbs the effect of the pandemic. As part of a series of GNFCC Economic Recovery Forums, Gregg Logan, Managing Director of RCLCO Real Estate Advisors, offered his view of North Fulton real estate as well as the broader economic environment. The host of “The GNFCC 400 Insider” is GNFCC CEO Kali Boatright, and the show is presented by the Greater North Fulton Chamber of Commerce and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®. Business RadioX is the Media Sponsor for this series of Economic Recovery Forums.

Gregg Logan, Managing Director, RCLCO Real Estate Advisors

Gregg Logan is an RCLCO Managing Director based out of the Orlando, Florida office. With over 35 years development and consulting experience, Gregg has worked with real estate developers, land owners, cities and counties, private investors, builders, and legal and accounting firms. Gregg’s consulting work has included market and financial evaluations, fiscal impact assessment, economic impact evaluations, economic development strategies, valuations, and litigation support for a wide range of real estate product types.Gregg has conducted and supervised real estate consulting assignments throughout the U.S. and abroad, including projects throughout Florida. His international work includes projects for clients in the Caribbean, Central and South America, as well as Europe and the Middle East.

Gregg is a member of the Urban Land Institute (ULI) and a past Chairman of the Central Florida District Council. He has chaired several ULI district and product councils. He is a contributing author of several ULI books, including Transforming Business Districts and Housing for Niche Markets. He published a white paper for the U.S. EPA titled The Market for Smart Growth. Gregg participated as a market specialist to help create ULI’s Ten Principles for Developing Successful Town Centers. He served as a chair for the ULI Advisory Services Panel, Regional Cooperation for Florida’s Future.

About GNFCC and “The GNFCC 400 Insider”

For more information on GNFCC and its North Fulton County service area, follow this link or call (770) 993-8806.

For the complete show archive of “The GNFCC 400 Insider,” go to GNFCC400Insider.com. “The GNFCC 400 Insider” is produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Decision Vision Episode 65: Should I Have a Supplier Diversity Program? – An Interview with Stacey Key, Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council

May 14, 2020 by John Ray

Decision Vision

Decision Vision Episode 65: Should I Have a Supplier Diversity Program? - An Interview with Stacey Key, Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council

00:00 /

**Stacey Key, CEO, Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council**

Decision Vision Episode 65: Should I Have a Supplier Diversity Program? – An Interview with Stacey Key, Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council

Should my company develop or formalize a supplier diversity program? How does a supplier diversity program build my own company’s value? The answer to these questions and more are answered by Stacey Key of the Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council in a conversation with host Mike Blake. “Decision Vision” is presented by Brady Ware & Company. (This episode was recorded March 13, 2020)

Stacey Key, Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council

Stacey Key is the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council (GMSDC), the leading authority on supplier diversity and minority business development in the state of Georgia. Key has more than 20 years of corporate experience in sales, marketing, operations and customer service at global brands like IBM, AT&T, Schlumberger and Samsung Telecommunications.

Prior to joining the GMSDC, Stacey was responsible for leading nationwide marketing efforts at Samsung Telecommunications as its Marketing Director. She also served as Vice President – Public Sector for Schlumberger, the world’s leading supplier of products and services to the oil and gas industry. She is an accomplished entrepreneur, with more than 15 years of experience at the helm of a successful family business.

Stacey has been recognized as a leader throughout the state for her career accomplishments and community service. Some of her awards and honors include: the 100 Influential Women to Know by Engineering Georgia, Who’s Who of Black Atlanta, the Business Advocacy Award from MARTA, the Atlanta Business League’s 100 Top Women of Influence, Diversity Plus Magazine’s Top 25 Women in Power Impacting Diversity, the Black & Latino Council’s Global Commerce Award, and the DeKalb Chamber of Commerce Apex Small Business Champion Award.

Key earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Administration and Computer Science from Western Kentucky University, and an MBA from Kennesaw State University. She holds a certificate in Mergers and Acquisitions from Kennesaw State University and is a graduate of the Leadership Atlanta Class of 2014. Key is actively involved in the community and serves on numerous boards of directors, including the Georgia Department of Transportation, Georgia Chamber of Commerce, the Midtown Alliance and the Renew Atlanta Infrastructure Bond Advisory Committee. She is the proud mother of one daughter who is a college student.

You can learn more about the work of the GMSDC on their website, and you can also find them on Twitter and Facebook. To get in touch directly, call them at 404-589-4929.

Michael Blake, Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company

Decision Vision Podcast Series

Visit Brady Ware & Company on social media:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brady-ware/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bradywareCPAs/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BradyWare

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bradywarecompany/

Show Transcript

Intro: [00:00:02] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions. Brought to you by Brady Ware & Company. Brady Ware is a regional full-service accounting and advisory that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make vision a reality.

Mike Blake: [00:00:20] And welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we discuss the process of decision making on a different topic from the business owner’s or executive’s perspective. We aren’t necessarily telling you what to do, but we can put you in a position to make an informed decision on your own and understand when you might need help along the way.

Mike Blake: [00:00:39] My name is Mike Blake, and I’m your host for today’s program. I’m a Director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia, which is where we’re recording today. And as of March 13th, when we were recording this, we are not yet under quarantine. Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast. The beauty of being a podcast. I guess you probably could do it under quarantine. If you like this podcast, please subscribe on your favorite podcast aggregator. And please consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Mike Blake: [00:01:12] So, today, we’re going to talk about implementing a supplier diversity program. And I think most people who are listening to this podcast have heard that term before but may not know exactly what it is. I think they don’t know exactly what the benefits are in providing one, and then how you actually go about doing it. It is not necessarily as simple as saying, “Hey, I want to give people of color a chance to supply stuff for my business.” And I think it’s a little more complicated than that.

Mike Blake: [00:01:45] And also, in order to make it a sustainable exercise, it needs to go beyond a purely socially motivated activity. At least, I think that’s the case. We will find out. I am not an expert on this. And as we do on our program, I invited somebody who is an expert on this. And joining us today is Stacey Key, who is President and CEO of the Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council. Stacey has more than 20 years of corporate experience in sales, marketing, operations and customer services at global brands like IBM, AT&T, Schlump Berger, and Samsung Telecommunications.

Mike Blake: [00:02:20] Her educational accomplishments include a Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Science and Business Administration from Western Kentucky University, her MBA from Kennesaw State University and the Regional Leadership Institute in 2018. Stacey sits on the boards of the Georgia Chamber of Commerce and the Midtown Alliance, and as a graduate of the Leadership Atlanta Class of 2014, the best class ever, where she is my classmate.

Mike Blake: [00:02:47] In 2018 and ’19, Stacey was named to the list of 100 Influential Women to Know by Engineering Georgia Magazine, was named to the Atlanta Business League’s 100 Top Women of Influence, and received the DeKalb Chamber of Commerce as APICS’ Small Business Champion Award. She has many more awards. Her trophy case looks like Michael Jordan’s. But we don’t have time to go through all that because we have a topic to discuss. Stacey, thank you so much for coming on the program.

Stacey Key: [00:03:12] Michael, thank you so much for having me. Wow. Listening to myself. I don’t really know that person.

Mike Blake: [00:03:20] So, you’re head of the Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council.

Stacey Key: [00:03:26] GMSDC, it’s actually called.

Mike Blake: [00:03:26] Okay, GMSDC. And it’s Georgia’s leading small business development supplier diversity organization. it’s been around a long time, hasn’t it?

Stacey Key: [00:03:35] Actually, thank you for that lead-in. We’re celebrating 45 years this year. And it’s been a journey, I will tell you. And a little bit about it, if I have the liberty, a little bit about our history.

Mike Blake: [00:03:45] Please, please.

Stacey Key: [00:03:45] … and our pedigree, 45 years ago, if you can imagine, corporation, the Coca-Cola Company and some other major corporations, WesTrac, which was then MeadWestvaco, Cox was involved, Delta involved, AT&T, Southern Company, Georgia Power, these companies came together and decided that they wanted to open up their supply chain and be more inclusive. And so, they led the charge to form this non-profit organization to help them in doing that. Again, there were other major corporations at the table at the time, but they saw the long-term vision and value and, actually, return on investment to their shareholders of expanding their supply chain to include others that can bring innovative solutions and products to the table.

Mike Blake: [00:04:35] And you have quite a bit of corporations that are engaged with you right now, isn’t it? What’s the number?

Stacey Key: [00:04:41] We have over 400 corporations. And all the ones you know and love here, of course.

Mike Blake: [00:04:45] Yeah.

Stacey Key: [00:04:45] You’re a Southern Company, Georgia Power, UPS, the Coca-Cola Company, Home Depot, Cox obviously, Delta Airlines, everybody, NCR, AT&T. All those you know and love are engaged, and involved, and have a commitment, again, to drive shareholder value by opening up that supply chain to include others.

Mike Blake: [00:05:08] And roughly how many minority business suppliers are there that are kind of under your tender caring stewardship?

Stacey Key: [00:05:15] I love that tender caring stewardship. We have over 700 minority businesses throughout the great State of Georgia that are involved and certified through us. And let me take a minute to tell you a little bit more about GMSDC. And so, corporations formed us. And so, are our customer is primarily corporate America. The minority businesses are the constituents that we serve on behalf of corporate America. And so, the process is that we certify minority businesses. We certify that you are who you are, a minority business, that you own, manage and control 51% of that business. And we’ve heard some of those horror stories of companies that are not quite that, but I’m in the business of making sure that the suppliers I bring to the table for the Coca Cola’s, and the UPSs, and the Coxes that they are who they say they are, and I’m in the business of protecting them and their supply chain.

Mike Blake: [00:06:10] So, let’s go ahead and jump in to that then because I think that’s that’s very important. There’s, obviously, an incentive to become identified as a diversity supplier. Is that the right term of ours, diversity supplier?

Stacey Key: [00:06:24] Diverse supplier. And that includes, it could be women. That can be minority-owned. It could be veterans or not diverse, but veterans are part of that. LGBTQ a part of that.

Mike Blake: [00:06:35] Oh, they are.

Stacey Key: [00:06:36] They are part of that.

Mike Blake: [00:06:36] Okay, I did not know that. Okay.

Stacey Key: [00:06:37] Yeah. And there are organizations that certify the women, LGBTQ, those other organizations that are there, and they’re part of the family that they certify those other groups.

Mike Blake: [00:06:47] And is that a certification a definition that is determined at the state level or the federal level?

Stacey Key: [00:06:52] Neither.

Mike Blake: [00:06:53] Okay.

Stacey Key: [00:06:53] GMSDC is a private sector certification.

Mike Blake: [00:06:57] Oh, okay.

Stacey Key: [00:06:58] So, corporations look to that. If you’re doing business with the State of Georgia, they use a certification that is done by either GDOT or MARTA. I sit on the GDDOT board and, actually, head of the Equal Access Committee in the State of Georgia. If you’re going to do business with the City of Atlanta, they have their own, but they all are asking for the same thing. They call them different things. DBEs, if you’re looking to do business on a federal level, it’s got Disadvantaged Business Enterprise. That’s not based on ethnicity. That’s based on size and income of the business.

Mike Blake: [00:07:33] So, definitely a lot of ground kind of being covered here. I’m going to take a little bit of a different tack than I originally thought because our conversation is taking a different tack and it’s fine. Some of my listeners, some of our listeners may be thinking about becoming identified and certified as a supplier in this regard. And I know I have clients that, perhaps, would be eligible, and they decide not to for whatever reason. I think some of them say, “Well, I don’t need an advantage.” Others say, “I don’t want the government involved.” And, now, they just learned this is not a government exercise. It’s actually a private exercise.

Stacey Key: [00:08:09] There is no government involved. It’s private enterprise.

Mike Blake: [00:08:11] And others worry that it’s a bunch of hoops that you have to go through, and is it really kind of worth it for the opportunity? So, before we dive into the main questions I want to talk about, could you kind of make the pitch for somebody listening that if they’re eligible as a female-owned businesses, African-American, LGBTQ, whatever the classification may be, make the case that it’s worth it?

Stacey Key: [00:08:35] So, let me tell you this, not every business should be certified. For those that should be, let me tell you, where else can you go for an introduction to someone at Coca-Cola, UPS, Delta Airlines to sell your product or service? Where else can you go to get in front of them, someone brings you to the door, opens it up, and sits you down in front of them. There’s no way that a small, diverse business would have the access and/or the connections to be exposed to the vast array of corporations that are a part of our organization. And that’s why they come to the door. And everyone comes with the idea of Coca-Cola, Home Depot, all of those. But also, a side benefit is you may be able to market your product and services to 700 other small businesses that are part of the family. Your services, you’re in a CPA accounting kind of-

Mike Blake: [00:09:32] Correct.

Stacey Key: [00:09:34] Every single small business needs one. Why can’t it be you? And so, we open doors to other small businesses. We open the door to corporate America. And if you feel you have the gravitas to be able to do that on your own, then maybe it’s not for you. But for the majority of the small businesses, they do not have access to that door and GMSDC opens that door.

Mike Blake: [00:10:01] So, the impression I have, and this is purely an impression. I’m embarrassed I do not have data to back this up. I should look this up today.

Stacey Key: [00:10:10] You have, yeah.

Mike Blake: [00:10:10] But I think my impression is that companies that are looking for diverse suppliers frequently can’t find enough to fit the bill. There’s kind of a shortage. Is that an accurate picture in a lot of cases?

Stacey Key: [00:10:26] In many sectors and industries, that is absolutely correct. And that’s my job of helping them do just that. And so, corporations don’t have the time or the resource to go in and find diverse suppliers. Hence, that’s why maybe they become members of GMSDC because my job is to work on their behalf to do exactly that.

Mike Blake: [00:10:47] So, I didn’t know this. It’s worth underscoring, is that not only are you certifying, not only are you advocating, but you’re actually walking people in the door to the decision maker, the people that have the potential to sign multi-million dollar contracts.

Stacey Key: [00:11:00] We are connecting them to the supply chain to do business. We are looking for companies that are corporate-ready to go to the table with appropriate products and services. So, part of the things that we also do with our suppliers is make sure you are corporate-ready because I may have the vision that I’m ready, but can I afford to wait 120 days for my invoice? I’ve got a full cash. Do I have a product or service that corporate America is looking for? If I’m selling widgets, are they looking for more widgets? That’s the part of the discussion we have as part of the developing because we certify, develop and connect them to corporate supply chains.

Mike Blake: [00:11:40] So, you then also serve a vetting role?

Stacey Key: [00:11:43] Absolutely.

Mike Blake: [00:11:43] But it also sounds like if somebody is not ready for primetime, you don’t just sort of leave them there. You have a process and a program in place to help them get ready for primetime.

Stacey Key: [00:11:54] Absolutely, corporate-ready. We have developmental programs. In fact, about 10 years ago, we took over the State of Georgia’s Mentor Protege Program. And that’s a program that partners a small business, not a minority business necessarily, but a small business with a major corporation for growth, and development, and for long-term sustainable growth. So, think about if you were a company, and you’re partnered with UPS for a year. UPS is bringing the vast resources of their company to the table to help you grow. Where else is that happening?

Mike Blake: [00:12:28] Nowhere.

Stacey Key: [00:12:31] Exactly.

Mike Blake: [00:12:31] Certainly not my round. Look, I’m a white guy. Nobody’s given me an outside complaint. That’s just a reality. But it sounds great.

Stacey Key: [00:12:38] And we have white guys in that program. Again, it’s about small business. It’s not about ethnicity. It’s not about income. Well, income, yes. We’re looking for companies that are part of the mid protegé that are, at least, a million dollars but not not over $30 dollars. And so, that’s a sweet spot for us to help grow them to the next level.

Mike Blake: [00:13:01] So, why does Coca-Cola, why does Delta or Cox care? Why do they feel like a special effort is required, necessary, desirable to diversify their supplier base?

Stacey Key: [00:13:15] Because it brings shareholder value. Do you actually think people would do this just because? No. Because they clearly understand that using diverse suppliers with innovative products and services that they don’t currently have access to today brings shareholder value. It drops to the bottom line. That’s why they care.

Mike Blake: [00:13:37] And can that translate to a smaller business too? We’ve talked about sort of brand names, right? And although I think it’d be great if Home Depot and Delta are listening to this podcast. I think most of my listeners are a little smaller than that.

Stacey Key: [00:13:53] But you know what? I’m gonna send this to them, so they have an opportunity to hear this podcast.

Mike Blake: [00:13:58] Well, great. Well, Delta, Home Depot, Cox, welcome aboard. We’re glad to have you. Glad to have you. So, you’re walking me up to them?

Stacey Key: [00:14:06] That is exactly correct.

Mike Blake: [00:14:06] There’s no off switch, is there?

Stacey Key: [00:14:06] Yes.

Mike Blake: [00:14:10] But let’s take kind of a smaller business now, right? Does this scale downward? Can a smaller business benefit? Are some of the corporate partners with whom you work, are they smaller businesses?

Stacey Key: [00:14:23] Well, there’s a concept we call like tier two. And so, for example, if I’m a a major corporation, and I have a relationship with the Coca-Cola Company. And so, Coca-Cola has a process in place, and most do that, says, “Stacey Kay Inc., and I’m doing business with Coke. Coke also wants me to do business with other small suppliers as well, feeding that supply chain.” And so, there is an opportunity. I may not be able to be big enough to actually do business with Coca-Cola but I can do business with the prime that is doing business with Coca-Cola. So, downstream, I’m engaging other smaller suppliers that are not quite as big to do business with me, but they can do business with my prime suppliers.

Mike Blake: [00:15:06] Like in the auto industry-

Stacey Key: [00:15:07] Correct.

Mike Blake: [00:15:07] … they have tier one, tier two-

Stacey Key: [00:15:08] Exactly.

Mike Blake: [00:15:08] … all that stuff.

Stacey Key: [00:15:08] That’s exactly correct. There a prime industry that’s done an outstanding job of feeding that complete supply chain of small businesses and giving them opportunities. And then, ultimately, I grow up, and maybe I can be a prime. Not necessarily but that potential exist.

Mike Blake: [00:15:26] So, you said a diverse supplier base drives shareholder value. And I think I’ve seen-

Stacey Key: [00:15:32] And innovation.

Mike Blake: [00:15:32] Okay. I want to drill into that because I think I’ve seen the high level case but, candidly, that is not something I’ve studied in great depth. What are the levers where having a diverse supplier base translates into that higher shareholder value?

Stacey Key: [00:15:47] And so, as I open up the supply chain, cost because supply chain is about driving cost out of the business, which is value. And so, I may have a select group that I currently do business with that I have not opened up. By opening it up, I have the potential [1], to lower my cost.

Mike Blake: [00:16:05] Through competition, if nothing else.

Stacey Key: [00:16:07] Absolutely. Bringing in a new product that provides value to my customer that may allow me to raise my pricing because I’m adding additional value. So, I’ve got top line revenue there. They may have an innovative thing that gives me a competitive advantage that sets me apart from my competition. So, now, I own market share. Again, driving value.

Mike Blake: [00:16:31] So, is another part of this, also, just simple visibility? For example, as you know, I’m involved in the tech community.

Stacey Key: [00:16:40] Yes.

Mike Blake: [00:16:41] I go to a tech meeting. Pretty much there, everybody looks like me or my wife. All right?

Stacey Key: [00:16:47] Okay. And we need to talk about how, ’cause we have a technology industry group, how we help you change that.

Mike Blake: [00:16:52] Yes, absolutely. And there are others in our class that are interested in that, as you know, and are trying to do what they can as well. But I’m clueless. But the point is, is that the normal places where if I were looking for a supplier of some technology solution within a diversity-driven community, the normal places I look, I’m just not seeing them, right? And I don’t think that it’s a function that people of color, that people who are of a different orientation or whatever are unwelcome. I think just the outreach has not been there. There’s a lack of awareness.

Stacey Key: [00:17:32] I think you’re going to see, there’s a more of a technology focus because technology is the foundation for many things. For example, we’ve got a technology industry group. And then, we also have transportation and logistics. We also have focused on retail or the movie industry. And a lot of that’s focused around technology. And so, our technology industry group is going to be the kind of the peach tree, with that peach, the color peach, one little thing when you’re doing experiments, but our technology group is kind of the-

Mike Blake: [00:18:04] The peach pep.

Stacey Key: [00:18:04] It’s going to be the catalyst.

Mike Blake: [00:18:06] The petri dish.

Stacey Key: [00:18:06] Petri dish.

Mike Blake: [00:18:06] That’s it, yeah.

Stacey Key: [00:18:06] Petri dish. But art technology group is going to be the foundation for all of our industry groups because it’s at the core of what you do. So, if there’s something innovative that the technology group can do to help the transportation and logistics industry group. Is there something that the manufacturing group can help with? That’s the key for us. And so, I think, there’s more technology out there that’s being developed by people of color. I think getting them access to and exposed to that broader ecosystem is key. I know there’s Rodney Sampson, who he’s out there, he’s working hard around this technology.

Mike Blake: [00:18:48] Boy, is he ever?

Stacey Key: [00:18:49] Yeah, he’s working hard. And there’s recently online, the Russell Innovation Center that’s coming online that’s got to focus around technology.

Mike Blake: [00:18:56] I was just there two weeks ago.

Stacey Key: [00:18:57] So, you see it coming and more and more. You’re going to see more of that. And today, I’ve got some phenomenal suppliers that have some great technology today that they’re working on and doing things with corporate America, but there’s more to come.

Mike Blake: [00:19:15] So, I think there’s a pretty compelling case that a diverse supplier base is a good thing to do.

Stacey Key: [00:19:24] Absolutely.

Mike Blake: [00:19:25] And this can scale down. You touched upon this, but I want to make sure. If I, myself, am the owner of, say, a $20 million business, I can still benefit from this, right?

Stacey Key: [00:19:36] Let me tell you, we have companies that are billion-dollar enterprises. Absolutely. Again, for the mid protegé, we do want $1 to $30 million. Yeah. And so, yes, if you’re $20 million, any business that’s interested in growing. If you’re not interested in growth, then maybe not. But if you’re interested in growing that business, I would look at all my options around the business plan to diversify my options.

Mike Blake: [00:20:03] So, I’m listening to this now, this program now, and I realize that I would benefit from having a more diverse supplier base.

Stacey Key: [00:20:14] And maybe you even need to partner with a diverse supplier. That’s even opens up a whole another avenue.

Mike Blake: [00:20:19] Well, let’s talk about that because I would like to get into the nuts and bolts of this, right? Right now, I realize I’ve got a supplier base that is not very diverse. I need to change it. First two or three steps to implement are what?

Stacey Key: [00:20:34] Well, first of all, if you are a corporation or entity, you want to develop a policy, something that the whole organization can rally around and be a part of, something that truly reflects the culture of the organization and what you intend to do. So, first of all, it’s establishing a policy, “Here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re going to open up our supply chain. We’re going to use diverse suppliers. I need everybody on board. That’s my policy.”

Stacey Key: [00:20:56] Then, you start developing processes around and execute on that. How a supplier is going to know that I’m now excited about this? How do I communicate that to everybody? How do I find diverse suppliers? What areas of my business am I going to have opportunities for suppliers? All of that’s the background. And that’s where a GMSDC organization, we help corporations come to us every single day due to do just that.

Mike Blake: [00:21:22] So, a charged word that is associated with diversely suppliers and, frankly, anything where diversity is engaged in business is the word quota, right? And quota is a very charged word. You particularly see it in diversity, hiring, affirmative action. I’m not going to open that Pandora’s box here.

Stacey Key: [00:21:42] Let’s open that door. Let’s open the door because when you-

Mike Blake: [00:21:46] Take it down.

Stacey Key: [00:21:47] Yeah, yeah. When we’re dealing with corporate America and the private sector, there are no quotas. There’s no set-asides. That’s more government-related.

Mike Blake: [00:21:54] Really?

Stacey Key: [00:21:54] So, you have to compete for the business.

Mike Blake: [00:21:57] Okay.

Stacey Key: [00:21:58] And so, when a diverse supplier wins, it’s because they’re the best of the best. The pricing and the product and service, all of that meets the corporation standards. They’re not lowering standards to do business with diverse suppliers. Their suppliers are coming up to the corporate standard.

Mike Blake: [00:22:15] So, okay. So, I’m delighted you’ve kicked down that door because I thought I knew the answer to that question. I don’t. So, if you don’t kind of know this world, I think you’re thinking, “Oh, gosh, if I put in this program, then we’re going to have a quota. And meeting that quota leaves all kinds of awkward distortions.”

Stacey Key: [00:22:32] It does not.

Mike Blake: [00:22:33] But you’re saying quotas is not part of it. Quota is not best practices.

Stacey Key: [00:22:37] There are no quotas in corporate America in doing business. Now, government sectors and federal government may have the 8A Program, which is a set-aside specifically. They may have designated and organizations may have designated, but in corporate, that just does not exist. They are interested in doing business with the best and brightest to derive shareholder value to their corporations. There is no favoritism here.

Mike Blake: [00:23:01] Okay. So, how do you ensure that setting up a program like this has impact beyond PR and marketing that has a real substantive impact that digs itself into the supply chain?

Stacey Key: [00:23:16] And we call it having teeth to the program.

Mike Blake: [00:23:17] Having teeth, I love it.

Stacey Key: [00:23:19] Well, you set some measurements. You set some goals. And so, when you’ve got your C-suite involved and engaged in this process, and so the whole company, it’s part of their culture, it’s part of their DNA, and you tie it to performance. “Oh, my. I measured on that now.” What gets measured gets done. And so, now, I’m integrating it in the culture of the organization. And so, it’s beyond just PR because people are compensated based on it, people are measured based on it, and there’s requirements for how does this impact our bottom line? So, when you have those kind of measurements involved in the process, people rally around it or are part of that.

Mike Blake: [00:24:01] So, some companies go so far … Actually, I’m going to ask that question later because there’s another final question I want to ask. When you do measure the integration of a diversity supplier program or supplier diversity program, what do you think are the most important metrics? What KPI would I be looking for?

Stacey Key: [00:24:19] And so, some of the metrics that are there today. For example, last year, I believe our number was about $7 billion was spent on diverse suppliers in this state last year.

Mike Blake: [00:24:19] That’s a big number.

Stacey Key: [00:24:30] It’s a huge number, $7 billion. So, spend. How much are you spending? How many diverse suppliers that are a part of your supply chain? What strategic areas are you using them as part of the supply chain? What are you doing to help develop them and grow them as part of your supply chain? Some of the measurements that are there today to help and guide this journey.

Mike Blake: [00:24:54] So, I believe that some of, at least, larger companies will actually have a person who is in charge of-

Stacey Key: [00:25:01] Supplier diversity?

Mike Blake: [00:25:01] … supplier diversity.

Stacey Key: [00:25:03] Yes, and that-

Mike Blake: [00:25:03] Chief diversity. Your chief supplier diversity officer, in fact.

Stacey Key: [00:25:05] They have a resource committed to this process. That’s absolutely required. Some have one, some have two, some have five, some have six. Whatever that number, I’ve committed resources because it’s important to my business.

Mike Blake: [00:25:19] And do you need to commit that resource because it’s just so time consuming and the expertise is so specialized that you can’t sort of make that a side gig, you’ve got to really kind of commit yourself to it?

Stacey Key: [00:25:31] My personal opinion is that it should not be a side gig. However, there are people that have that role of supplier diversity, and they may have sourcing, which is they’re a buyer as well. So, depending on the organization and the timing of when they develop their program depends on the resources and the commitment.

Mike Blake: [00:25:49] So, I have to imagine all programs like these are not alike, right?

Stacey Key: [00:25:55] Yeah.

Mike Blake: [00:25:55] What Delta needs and what Home Depot needs, they’re different.

Stacey Key: [00:25:57] That is correct. The programs are different. And as they should be, the needs of their businesses are unique and should be different, yes. But they have some common things across all businesses in terms of their focus and and some of the measurements, but the execution could be different based on that individual business.

Mike Blake: [00:26:15] So, this may not be a fair question, but I’m in the business of asking unfair questions.

Stacey Key: [00:26:21] Okay, okay, that’s fine.

Mike Blake: [00:26:21] Can you describe common threads that run through most diversity supplier programs? Talk about measurement. That’s one.

Stacey Key: [00:26:29] Okay. That’s the-

Mike Blake: [00:26:29] What are some other threads?

Stacey Key: [00:26:30] All of them have a resource, even if it’s a shared resource. Most of them are measuring spend, how much they’re actually spending. Most of them are looking at the quantitative or qualitative parts of it in terms of helping suppliers grow. For the most part, they care that they grow them and have a long-term relationship. And all of this is relationship-based. And so, typically, I do business with people I know, like and trust. And so, that’s a common thread that you’re going to see among most of them as well. But those are some of the basic things that you will see across the board. The measurements, I’ve got a resource, how many I’m doing business with, the spend, how much I’m spending with them, helping them develop, and grow, and understand my organization, so that they can truly be a partner as opposed to a vendor.

Mike Blake: [00:27:24] So, I am going to go back a little bit in our interview here because I think it’s now relevant here, which is talking about a mission statement. And I’m actually a big fan of mission statements because I’m a big Simon Sinek fan. And it borders on the man crush.

Stacey Key: [00:27:39] Okay. Oh, wow, man crush!

Mike Blake: [00:27:39] It borders on the stalker kind of level, okay?

Stacey Key: [00:27:43] Okay.

Mike Blake: [00:27:43] So, Simon, I love you! Come on our podcast. But he’s, obviously, big on missions if you’re familiar with his work at all, right? And so, I’m curious, as I’m formulating a mission to address this kind of activity, supplier diversity, are there sort of best practices for the elements of what that mission ought to contain?

Stacey Key: [00:28:06] Well, again, you have to customize that mission to the culture of the organization. So, you can’t have a cookie cutter. What works for Southern Company and Georgia Power may not work for Delta. So, you’ve got to customize it based on the organization and the commitment. But again, the bottom line, as part of that mission statement, it is to say we are committed to utilizing, and growing, and incorporating diverse suppliers in our supply chain to create shareholder value and create jobs in this great state, because that’s what that does. And so, some semblance of that and how they craft it based on their culture and their unique organizational traits is up to them.

Mike Blake: [00:28:54] So, how do you go about – not you personally, but a firm that’s sort of in the reach of our voice today. How do they start to go about recruiting candidates to become diverse suppliers? Obviously, they can work through you, but even you can’t handle every potential request coming in.

Stacey Key: [00:29:12] Oh, but we can. Small but mighty.

Mike Blake: [00:29:16] Okay.

Stacey Key: [00:29:16] Small but mighty. Yes, we can. But no, if an organization is looking to do outreach to identify diverse suppliers, you’ve got to establish some communication channels. Again, GMSDC, because corporations don’t have a time and resources, “GMSDC, I need your help. I need to find suppliers that can sing, dance and jump through a hoop, and then bend over backwards at the same time.” That’s what I go find. I go to my network, I go to my small business partner networks, and I identify those suppliers, and vet them, and bring them back. Now, they can put out communications using all kinds of of tools. They can use their individual corporate websites. They can send a blast-out. They can do all that work, or they can rely on organizations. That’s our core competency. That’s what we do every day and leverage us to do that.

Mike Blake: [00:30:11] Can you work with out-of-state clients?

Stacey Key: [00:30:13] Well, I am part of a network, a nationwide network across the country of councils. You’ve got the Chicago Minority Supplier Development Council. You’ve got the Michigan Supplier. So, part of a network. My corporations are not all in Georgia. For example, Accenture has a large presence here, but they’re headquartered in Chicago. And Accenture is one of our key partners. Johnson & Johnson, they’re headquartered up on the East Coast. But Procter & Gamble, they may have some distribution channels here, but they’re in Ohio. And so, we work with corporations all over the country that are interested in having suppliers in this state. But again, I have counterparts across the country that can service them if they’ve got other interests in other states throughout the country.

Mike Blake: [00:30:57] So, that’s a benefit. You’re not a government organization. So, although your name-

Stacey Key: [00:31:01] That’s right.

Mike Blake: [00:31:01] … says Georgia, that doesn’t mean you’re necessarily beholden to our state.

Stacey Key: [00:31:05] It says Georgia because I certify, develop and connect minority businesses in this state. I work across the country with all of the Fortune 1000 corporations that are interested in doing business in this state.

Mike Blake: [00:31:17] So, do companies alongside working with you, do they have their own parallel programs to help identify suppliers? Are we-

Stacey Key: [00:31:27] Absolutely.

Mike Blake: [00:31:27] What are some of the things that they do?

Stacey Key: [00:31:29] Yeah. Again, for example, we get requests all the time but, again, it just happened this week, Hartsfield Jackson Airport just held their annual outreach. We partner with them or we’ll work with them because they’re a member of GMSDC, but they do all the lifting and they do all the work. So, they do the outreach to the whole community and say, “Hey, we’re having an annual conference. We love you to be a part of it,” and they do the outreach and invite suppliers, and working through their prime suppliers as well.

Mike Blake: [00:31:55] Okay. So, in effect, they have kind of their own captive trade fair out there.

Stacey Key: [00:31:59] They have, yes. They have their own database of people that they’ve done business with that want to do business and they do outreach to those organizations as well.

Mike Blake: [00:32:07] Okay.So, I love to learn a little bit more and let you share more about what your process is for vetting potential suppliers because that seems to me to be a huge amount of value that you bring knowing that it’s got your seal of approval, that it’s okay, right?

Stacey Key: [00:32:24] So, that seal is cuts being a certified minority business. And anybody who is an ethnic minority can be certified through us. Again, there are other sister organizations if you’re going to get women, or LGBT, or even veteran. And then, SBA has a self-certify for small business. So, you can go to any one of those organizations, but there’s a process. We’re going to ask for operating agreement. We’re going to look for bank statement, bank signature cards. We’re going to make sure you all manage and control your operating agreement for that entity. We’re asking for a lot of information to make sure we’re protecting corporate America and that you are who you say you are for doing business.

Mike Blake: [00:33:01] So, you’re putting on the rubber glove.

Stacey Key: [00:33:03] That’s exactly right, and all the way up, and we’re using them.

Mike Blake: [00:33:06] Okay. How long does that process take?

Stacey Key: [00:33:10] It could take anywhere from 30 to 60 days.

Mike Blake: [00:33:12] Okay, not long.

Stacey Key: [00:33:12] Yeah. Again, assuming you bring all the stuff in, it’s electronic, you upload all the information, and we take it from there.

Mike Blake: [00:33:21] And like so many things like that, the more organized your information is, the easier your job is.

Stacey Key: [00:33:25] Yes. We have a checklist on our website. You go through the checklist. We do a pre-certification webinar. You can sit in the comforts of your home and listen, and we go through the whole application, and we could take you through the whole process.

Mike Blake: [00:33:37] So, what are some mistakes that are made that are sort of cautionary tales from folks that have tried to put in programs like this and they have not been successful? What are some what are some crashes along the side of the road we can look by and say, “We shouldn’t do that”?

Stacey Key: [00:33:57] I don’t know if this crashes along the road, but if you don’t have the commitment from your C-suite, And you’ve not got the commitment from the organization, it’s tough to execute. You’ve got to have buy-in. Everybody’s got to be all in. Otherwise, you’re swimming up the stream the whole time and it’s harder. But when you’re C suite comes out or your CEO says, “We’re gonna do this, I need all hands on deck,” everybody lands up to support the effort. When you tie it to compensation, guess what? Everybody’s focused.

Mike Blake: [00:34:26] Sure does.

Stacey Key: [00:34:26] Laser-focused and intentional about the actions they take. So, it’s getting the entire organization is probably the number one thing. Supply chain can’t do it by themselves. They’ve got to have their end user groups involved as part of this process.

Mike Blake: [00:34:41] Now, will your office also not just bring people to the table but can you also help a company formulate those policies, procedures-

Stacey Key: [00:34:51] It can.

Mike Blake: [00:34:51] … or maybe even help them make the internal argument to the C suite-

Stacey Key: [00:34:54] We do that all the time. We’ve got some best practices that we share that help. Companies come and say, “We’re new. We’re starting. We’re gonna start down this journey, but we’re gonna need your help.” We may partner them with another major corporation, like AT&T, as a buddy, because AT&T is big, bad and audacious. They spend well over $2 billion with diverse suppliers. And so, we can do that as part of our network and part of being a part of our family.

Mike Blake: [00:35:20] So, you answered the question that I thought might be unfair, but if there’s anything I’ve learned over the last half an hour, I don’t think you have an unfair question. So, sounds like AT&T is a great example of somebody who’s doing this very well.

Stacey Key: [00:35:31] AT&T is a perfect example of some and there’s others. They’re not alone who’s doing it well. As I said, the Coca-Cola Company, UPS, Cox, Southern Company, Georgia Power, Delta Airlines, Home Depot, we’ve got some great partners that are doing some phenomenal things. Accenture does some phenomenal, phenomenal things. You’ve got SunTrust. You’ve got Bank of America … no, I’m sorry, SunTrust, now Truist.

Mike Blake: [00:36:00] I still struggle with that.

Stacey Key: [00:36:01] Yeah, the SunTrust, now Truist.

Mike Blake: [00:36:01] I know you have to correct yourself, and that’s appropriate. I have to admit, when I hear it, I still feel like I’m biting into aluminum foil. I’m still struggling with it.

Stacey Key: [00:36:10] I’ve got SunTrust, now Truist. Wells Fargo. So, you’ve got some great companies here in Georgia that are truly committed and laser-focused. E&Y comes to mind. E&Y is incredible. They do a phenomenal job. Their Entrepreneur of the Year program that is the best conference I’ve been in in my career. They’ve got some good stuff.

Mike Blake: [00:36:32] It’s well known, but I did not know that there is a diversity supplier element to that.

Stacey Key: [00:36:38] It’s an entrepreneur segment to it that has not just diverse suppliers but it has entrepreneurs. Their conference, the E&Y Entrepreneur of the Year, outstanding. It’s the best conference I’ve been in. It’s incredible.

Mike Blake: [00:36:56] I’m, again, going to go off script because it’s so fascinating to me and I’m kind of thinking through in real time, how can I kind of implement some of this? So, my firm is 65 years old.

Stacey Key: [00:37:09] Wow!

Mike Blake: [00:37:09] We’re based in Ohio. And to be perfectly candid, we do not have enough diversity in our company. I don’t think that it’s a specific thing. In fact, I’m confident it’s not. I would not be a shareholder if I thought that were the case. But I think that firms like us don’t know how to diversify our supplier base or by extension, a lot of our inputs are people.

Stacey Key: [00:37:39] That’s right.

Mike Blake: [00:37:39] Getting more people of color, getting more people that are diverse into our industry, and then getting them into our firm. Is that the kind of thing you help in E&Y with because they’re just a big competitor to us. I imagine they just face similar problems on a larger scale.

Stacey Key: [00:37:54] I am going to tell you, E&Y has been at this for a very, very long time. And their CEO is all in globally. They’re not doing it just here. This is globally for them. But for a company of your size, you’ve got history of 65 years, there’s an opportunity for you to form some strategic alliance and partnerships because you may have a core competency and skill that other firms don’t have that you can bring to the table. And so, in working with another diverse business or businesses, depending on the key pieces of elements of your business, that could make sense for you. So, it not only brings suppliers, it may be it brings up opportunity for corporations to grow your business by working with corporate America as well.

Mike Blake: [00:38:46] This is a major strategic decision for a company to do. I think it’s hard to imagine a scenario in which this is not a good thing for a company to explore, because why not take advantage of the opportunity? It seems to cost you so little to do it, right? It’s just-

Stacey Key: [00:39:00] Well, again, you’ve got to commit resource to do it. And so, it’s been shown, the return on investment here, it pays for itself tenfold. I mean, yeah.

Mike Blake: [00:39:12] How can people contact you to learn more about this? What’s the best way for someone to reach out to you? I mean, you’re kind of shy, I can tell.

Stacey Key: [00:39:18] Yeah, I know.

Mike Blake: [00:39:18] But maybe we can get them to get you to come out of your shell and talk to them.

Stacey Key: [00:39:21] So, you can always go to our website at www.gmsdc.org or you can call our office. Let me give you a number, 404-589-4929. And again, you can Google us, www.gmsdc.org, find out all about what we do, how we do it. We’re celebrating 45 years of doing just this. I’m telling you, we’re creating jobs. I think, last year, the number was about 55,000 jobs in the state from diverse suppliers. So, we’re part of this economic engine of the state that’s growing this thing. So, this train is moving and moving fast.

Mike Blake: [00:40:01] Well, that’s a great place to leave it. You want to be on a fast train. You want to be on it, not in front of it. So, if you are, give Stacey a call or give her staff a shout. That’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. I’d like to thank Stacey Key so much for joining us and sharing her expertise with us today. We’ll be exploring a new topic each week, so please tune in, so that when you’re faced with your next executive decision, you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy this podcast, please consider leaving a review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us, so that we can help them. Once again, this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision Podcast.