Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX Studios, it’s time for Workplace MVP. Workplace MVP is brought to you by R3 Continuum, a global leader in workplace behavioral health and security solutions. Now, here’s your host, Jamie Gassmann.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:25] Hi, everyone. Your host, Jamie Gassmann, here and welcome to this special edition of Workplace MVP. Over this last month, as we have all, at some point, reflected as a nation on the events of 9/11, it is common for most of us to recall where we were and what we were doing when we first heard the news of the attacks. I know I vividly remember where I was. And I have had conversations with many others over the last 20 years that have had the same types of recollection.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:53] Looking back on September 11th, 2001 and jumping forward to now, 2021, and the world we live in today with the COVID-19 pandemic, and hearing how employers are increasing and focusing efforts on providing mental health support for their employees, it leaves me wondering, how did employers respond and support employees in the immediate moments, days, weeks, and now years following the events of 9/11? How did the attacks change how business leaders react and respond to disruption in their workplace, particularly as it relates to supporting the well-being of their employees?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:30] Well, with us today to share his experience and key learnings as a business leader during 9/11 is Workplace MVP Jim Mortensen, who is the President for our show sponsor, R3 Continuum. Welcome to the show, Jim.

Jim Mortensen: [00:01:44] Thanks, Jamie. Glad to be here.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:47] So, let’s start out with you walking our listeners through your career journey and how you came to be the president at R3 Continuum.

Jim Mortensen: [00:01:55] Okay. Well, sometimes I talk about my career as kind of a testament to transferable skills. So, my educational background is in accounting and finance. And that’s usually where I would start in a company because it’s the most obvious kind of skill that people can grab onto. But what I would do was, I was in finance and then I went into project management, product development, client service.

Jim Mortensen: [00:02:30] And what I found was the reality is, is that, product development, client service, and finance have to work together all the time. But they really don’t know what the other one is talking about. And since I had been in all three, I kind of coalesce and get people unified in the goals that they were going for.

Jim Mortensen: [00:02:54] So, frequently, product development, people go to client service and say, “Here’s what we want to do.” And client service rolls their eyes and says, “You have no idea what you’re asking.” I’d throw some client service in ops terms out there just to say, “Yeah. I know exactly what I’m doing to you. So, let’s figure out how to to make this work.” And with that, I worked in various large companies like American Express and UnitedHealth Group.

Jim Mortensen: [00:03:24] But I, also, through all of that, would look for kind of the small entrepreneurial groups within those large companies, because what I really love to do is go into an area that is either really falling down and/or is experiencing explosive growth. And what I would consistently see happen is, when you’re going from that kind of small boutique into a mainline business, the volumes are crushing you. And they have largely succeeded and thrived almost through a lack of process. They’re very hands-on. They adjust to everything that’s going. And the challenge is, when the volumes get that high, if you don’t change how you’re doing it, you won’t continue.

Jim Mortensen: [00:04:15] So, I really love going in there and talking about we’re going to preserve the core, but to preserve that core and remain client focused and nimble, we have to change how we do that. And that’s incredible both from a tactical standpoint and from a culture standpoint. It’s a very challenging time, and I found that I just really love that kind of approach.

Jim Mortensen: [00:04:44] Well, after being in big companies, I then moved into small to midsized companies. And really, when you’re leading in that kind of an organization, the whole company is kind of a boutique entrepreneurial group and they need people who can move across processes. So, it really was a good fit for me, and that’s how I transitioned into smaller companies.

Jim Mortensen: [00:05:09] And then, when I heard about R3 and what they did, it was just such a core, in Simon Sinek’s “why”, it just really fit for me. So, I just have a passion for what R3 does.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:05:24] Great. And it fits well within our description of our show today in talking about 9/11 and where you were at, you know, career-wise during that timeframe, because R3 was a big responder to 9/11 in terms of the psychological first aid for employees and other victims.

Jim Mortensen: [00:05:42] Sure.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:05:42] So, let’s kind of dive into that a little bit and talk about, you know, on the day of 9/11 – and I know you’ve mentioned American Express – you’re working at American Express Financial Advisors. Can you share with us what was your role at that time? Where were you officed? How many employees did you have? You know, where were they located? And kind of just share a background on that.

Jim Mortensen: [00:06:03] Sure. Sure. As you said, I was at American Express Financial Advisors, and I was, at that time, leveraging my finance background. I was in charge of forecasting and budgeting for that company, which I think at that time was about 700 million a year in revenue. And I had just recently taken over that job. I had just recently gotten a new boss, who, ironically, was commuting from Toronto at the time. And I had about five employees. We were all based in the IDS Center in Downtown Minneapolis.

Jim Mortensen: [00:06:40] I was driving to work when I heard on the radio that the plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. And I think, like a lot of us, I was kind of in shock. And I remember on the drive, they were reporting about the first one hitting and I thought, “What a horrible accident.” And then, the second one hit, and we kind of all realized this isn’t just a random accident. So, I think I spent most of that day kind of in shock.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:07:11] And you heard about it driving to work and knowing the towers were the largest towers, I believe, in the country. The IDS is one of the largest towers in Minneapolis, so were there any feelings that you were feeling as you continue to your commute in? Or any thoughts that ran through your mind?

Jim Mortensen: [00:07:32] Yeah. And, in fact, we sent everybody home by about noon, in part because, to your point, the IDS Tower was one of the tallest towers in the Midwest, so we felt like we could be a target. I mean, it’s kind of like the early days of COVID, nobody really knew what was going on. And I think, also, a lot of us – I had two elementary school aged kids and my wife was at work in the schools – I think we all just wanted to be home and close to our families at that time. So, it’s a combination of that and a real concern about the security that our whole company just shut down and sent people home.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:08:23] Interesting. So, you know, with the employees – I know you mentioned that you shut it down and everybody went home to be with their families – what were some of the communications that were going out to your employees at the time? As a leader, what were some of the things that you were asked to do from the organization?

Jim Mortensen: [00:08:45] Sure. Well, at least in the early days, I think, we made a call that’s probably not correct, but was fairly common then, is that, there was one response for the people in New York, where our headquarters were, and a very different response for the rest of the country. So, the CEO of American Express, I think, got really good press for how he handled 9/11, because he was out there and talking and communicating with employees and creating new spots for people to work. Because the American Express Tower actually was connected via tunnels to the World Trade Center, and they used the same heating and HVAC systems.

Jim Mortensen: [00:09:42] So, actually, for a while there, we assumed everything in the American Express Tower may have been incinerated by the heat coming through. But, actually, when the towers came down, it tore off the external skin of the American Express Tower. That’s how close they were to the World Trade Center. So, there was a lot of focus on trying to find all our employees.

Jim Mortensen: [00:10:06] I remember being in conference calls in the days after that. And you’d just be waiting for everybody to check in and wondering are they all still alive. And it was really kind of a weird scenario. You know, it’s not, “Gee. Is this person late to the meeting?” It’s “Is this person still alive?” We were quite fortunate, I think the only American Express employees who were killed that day was a group of five to seven people in our travel company who actually worked onsite for one of the companies in the tower.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:10:47] Interesting. So, with your employees here in the Minneapolis area, you know, what was the feeling like when you returned to the office and knowing that there were employees that were in the tower and that there were employees that were close to the vicinity of the towers? You know, what were some of the feelings that were going through that work environment? And how did you show support to them and how did you navigate that?

Jim Mortensen: [00:11:16] Yeah. There was a lot of confusion. And, again, where I think we fell down as there wasn’t a lot of communication to the non-headquarters people, so we found out about it in drips and drabs. And, again, while I think the company did an amazing job of working with the people directly impacted, I think back at that time, it took a long time before people realized this really impacted employees across the country. And even if they did realize it, I think back in that time, there wasn’t a lot of understanding of how you help and support employees during that time.

Jim Mortensen: [00:12:03] I mean, I remember for weeks, my boss, whose family was still in Toronto – if you remember, you couldn’t fly – he’s stuck in the U.S. And I started to think, from his family’s standpoint, their dad is working in a foreign country that’s been attacked. And, finally, after a few weeks, he rented a car and drove home just to go see his family. And I just think we all just really didn’t understand completely how to deal with that. So, again, we did a great job with the people we knew were directly impacted and a lesser job, frankly, for the people who were indirectly impacted.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:12:48] Yeah. Did the organization, let’s say, like fast forward to some of the anniversaries passed in the first year or even maybe in the immediate? I know you kind of mentioned that there’s a lot of support that was provided kind of in that New York area and that concentration of employees that were more directly impacted. Did they eventually kind of catch on to some of the support that might have been needed? And if they did, how did that look and feel as they kind of progressed in their learning of everything?

Jim Mortensen: [00:13:21] Yeah. I think what they did a lot of is, as they started to recover the tower – and the tower for months afterwards was actually used as a staging area for the fire and police, et cetera – American Express had abandoned the tower and put people out to remote offices and such. So, as they started to regain the tower, they did a lot of work with people around, “Will you feel comfortable coming back to work in Downtown New York and within sight of where the World Trade Center was?” And I think they had a real understanding of that’s going to be traumatic for people. And some people desperately want that in order to recover their normal. And some people don’t want that reminder.

Jim Mortensen: [00:14:17] And, again, I see a lot of parallels to today. If you think about it, I mean, we’re having the same dialogues today, do people feel safe coming back to the office. And people love working from home, but they miss their coworkers. And I think that’s some of the same impacts we’re seeing today. I just think we’re a lot more aware of mental health issues and aware of why the employer should care and be engaged in that. As opposed to, “Well, that’s really a personal issue. We shouldn’t be involved.” Does that make sense?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:14:55] It does. Yeah. And it’s interesting, I’ve heard in some of the other interviews and kind of stories I’ve heard from the 9/11 during this anniversary timeframe where they’ve mentioned that that was really kind of the turning point for the mental health focus in workplaces. That that really was kind of where employers realized there was another part to business continuity that wasn’t just systems and operations. That it was really, you know, your people. And it sounds like you saw very much something similar within the Ameriprise that they did have to make that shift over to looking at their people.

Jim Mortensen: [00:15:31] Well, some of my experience was impacted by the fact that I was in finance and in charge of budgeting and forecasting. And what happened on 9/11 had some pretty severe impacts on Ameriprise from a financial standpoint. As I recall, every one percent movement in the market impacted our bottom line by a million dollars a year. So, I spent a horrendous amount of time post-9/11 focused on reforecasting the company over and over and over again.

Jim Mortensen: [00:16:10] And at that time, particularly in that area, it wasn’t, “How are you dealing with what just happened?” It’s, “Work lots of hours and figure out how we keep the company going.” And that’s not bad people. That’s just the way things were back then. It’s like, “Okay. Well, that happened. Now, what’s our revenue going to be next month?” That’s kind of the approach.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:16:42] Yeah. It sounds similar to our interview with Col. Williams talking about his experience in the Pentagon during 9/11 and having to go back on a plane that following Monday back at it to work. So, very much during that timeframe, it sounds like it was very similar amongst other industries as well.

Jim Mortensen: [00:17:01] Yeah. And there was nothing intentional or negative about it. It’s just kind of the culture back then and the lack of understanding of how it’s impacting. And I guess in some ways, it’s also a way some people do recover well. I think it helped me to not focus on that and instead focus on work. That’s a certain approach of maintaining my normal. It was to bury back into work again.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:17:30] Yeah. Absolutely. So, we’re going to take a moment and hear from our sponsor. So, Workplace MVP is sponsored by R3 Continuum. R3 Continuum is a global leader in providing expert, reliable, responsive, and tailored behavioral health, crisis, and violent solutions to promote workplace wellbeing and performance in the face of an ever changing and often unpredictable world. Learn more about how R3 Continuum can tailor a solution for your organization’s unique challenges by visiting r3c.com today.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:02] So, now, looking at you as a leader during 9/11, in your perspective looking back on that, what would be some of the changes or impacts that you had in your leadership style or how you lead or view leadership today?

Jim Mortensen: [00:18:18] It’s a great question. I think one of the things I’ve really learned, both from 9/11 and also, frankly, from working where I work now is, in periods of stress, whether it be work stress or, certainly, even more so non-work trauma, it’s really important for leaders to be visible. I think like all of us, there are times during events like that, or even death of a coworker, or something we’ve had that happen here, all of us, as individuals, get struck with the, “I don’t know what to say. What’s the right thing to say right now?” And a fairly natural reaction to not knowing what to say is to say nothing.

Jim Mortensen: [00:19:13] And leaders, in particular, to go hide in your office and say nothing is the worst thing you can do. You’ve got to be out. You’ve got to be visible. And in certain events like 9/11, like the death of a coworker, leaders have to understand that that’s a time not to put your leader face on. It’s a time people want to see you as a human being. So, it’s okay to cry, or to show emotion, or to link with people that way. That’s what people are looking to their leaders for how to handle this situation, and they want to know that their leader cares.

Jim Mortensen: [00:19:57] And I think that’s part of what I really learned from 9/11, is, those kind of events require leaders to step out, step into it, and just be visible, and be human, and deal with you have to help people understand, meet, and, frankly, accept that this is a highly emotional time. It’s a very disruptive time. And we have to work through that before we can be productive again.

Jim Mortensen: [00:20:36] And then, the other thing that I’ve really learned through it all is, people have different ways of dealing with it. So, a question I’ve gotten from employees as well, how do we help someone so during this? And the answer is, “Well, you ask them what they’re needing. And then, you believe what they tell you.” So, the idea that you’ve got to go through grief a certain way is really kind of old school. Most people are not in denial. They’re just working through it in their own way. So, you ask them what they need and you believe them when they tell you what they’re needing. Did that kind of get out what you’re wanting to know?

Jamie Gassmann: [00:21:20] Yes. Absolutely. And I think what’s interesting about that is, really, what you’re sharing is, is that a leader has to demonstrate, just similar to any other cultural type nuance within an organization, whether it be “I really want a positive atmosphere”, well, the leader has to demonstrate that. And when you’re going through crisis or a traumatic event, like 9/11, it’s really no different. You showing them it’s okay to have that emotion, it’s okay to feel that way, I think probably provides just a sense of comfort in itself to those employees in knowing they can handle it and kind of work through it the way that is best for them.

Jim Mortensen: [00:21:59] Yeah. Before people can be productive, they have to feel both physically and psychologically safe. So, in R3, during the pandemic, the commitment has been, as long as there are not performance issues, we will not require you to be on work at the office unless and until you feel physically and psychologically safe being here.

Jim Mortensen: [00:22:26] Now, we’re in a unique position where we can do that. Not every company can. But the point is, ignoring the physical and psychological safety will not get people productive faster. It will slow it down. So, you got to start there before you can get the business going again.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:22:47] Yeah. It’s kind of like when you think of the great resignation that a lot of organizations are facing. Some of that is a reflection of that employee looking at their work life and going, “Yeah. It doesn’t really fit me anymore.” But you make a valid point that by being able to meet that employee where it’s comfortable for them and it feels safe for them, both physically and psychologically, you’re able to create that atmosphere that helps them to know this is a good place for you. You know, it probably helps with that movement.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:23:18] So, from your perspective – you know, you talked a lot about kind of culturally and just how work was back during the 9/11 timeframe – thinking about it now – obviously, it’s been 20 years we’ve got, I believe, two new generations to the workforce in that timeframe – what do you think has changed in terms of an employee’s expectation of leadership when events of this magnitude and that level of disruption happen in a workplace?

Jim Mortensen: [00:23:52] Another great question. I think even beyond big events, the whole view of what companies should deal with and what’s appropriate to deal with at work has shifted dramatically, both through the generations and through time. So, kind of I’m a late boomer and lots of things that are discussed every day in the workplace, it’s not that those aren’t topics that are important to general society. It’s that those topics have nothing to do with the business so they’re not issues for the business to take on. Well, I even realized how out of date that sounds when I say it. I mean, it’s kind of the same as the ledger paper I used to foot and cross foot because we didn’t have Excel at that time.

Jim Mortensen: [00:25:00] So, there’s been quite an evolution about what topics companies can and should be addressing. And employees expect their employers to address these issues. And some of that is, you know, “What are my behavioral health needs? I’m feeling burned out. I’m stressed out.” And they expect their employer to help with that.

Jim Mortensen: [00:25:26] And I think the flip side, if you want to be a pure what’s the return on investment of doing this? I think that has shown to be a false idea that ignoring that is because it has no impact on the business. It has a huge impact on the business, both in terms of short term productivity and, frankly, in terms of retention of employees. Employees want to know they’re cared about. Employees want to know that their company is doing things that are helpful and productive in society.

Jim Mortensen: [00:26:07] And to the extent employers do that, they garner more than just somebody working for a paycheck. And they get their passion and their commitment and their retention. And so, I think the whole shift, certainly, 9/11 started some of that. But there’s a lot of things going on that have made a dramatic shift during my career of what is expected of companies.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:26:38] Yeah. And so, with that, kind of keeping on to some of that same vein, if you were to provide some type of piece of guidance to our listeners for how they could effectively lead when an incident occurs, whether it’s a massive event like 9/11 or even smaller scale incidents can have a similar impact on a workplace when there’s, maybe, a death of an employee or coworker that was well-liked or loved – even sometimes customers, I’ve heard, can have a big impact on those work environments – if you were going to give guidance to a leader that’s listening right now on what they can do to have that impact on an employee, what would you leave them with?

Jim Mortensen: [00:27:25] Well, obviously, the business we’re in is helping employers and leaders with that. So, getting a counselor to come onsite and help employees with that, I think, is incredibly helpful. We went through it at one point where one of our employees was killed in a car accident on the weekend. I’m fortunate enough that I could pick up the phone and call one of our employees who’s probably the global expert in these kinds of things and have him guide me through it. And we brought a counselor onsite, and a lot of what it is, is just gathering people up and meeting them where they’re at.

Jim Mortensen: [00:28:10] And I remember the meetings we had, and some of it was really sad, and some of it was really funny as we would recall fun stories about the person, and a lot of it is – they call it – normalizing your reaction, just kind of meeting people where they are and letting them process.

Jim Mortensen: [00:28:27] So, I think what you don’t want to do is force people to pretend things are normal before they’re ready to. So, again, I think it’s being very in place, be out there, talk to your people. It’s a lot tougher right now with people working remote. And we see a lot of articles about how do you find out how people are doing when they’re all remote. It’s toughed right now. But just because it’s tougher doesn’t mean it’s not needed.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:29:01] Yeah. So, how have some of the employers that R3 has worked with, you know, handled this mass shift to remote and still being able to provide that support? What are some of the approaches that maybe R3 has built into their programming or their service delivery that has helped to make sure that employers can still reach them where they’re at?

Jim Mortensen: [00:29:25] Well, one of the things we’ve developed is an ability to do – we call it – onsite response. Typically, when something happens in the workplace, we will send a counselor onsite to talk with the employees. That’s not so effective if the people aren’t onsite. So, in hospitals, we’re still going in and working with the people in the emergency departments, in the ICU.

Jim Mortensen: [00:29:50] But if it’s an office where everybody’s remote, what we’ve developed then is an ability to do that through Zoom calls and things like that, so that we can still help the people process and help them process with their coworkers through the same vehicles that they use for other meetings. And, in that way, the fact that they’re not all in one spot doesn’t prevent the ability to reach out.

Jim Mortensen: [00:30:18] We’ve also, for a long time, for companies that have very few people onsite, so retailers who only have a couple of people onsite during a robbery, going onsite isn’t viable for them. We have an ability to to do that telephonically. So, we just use the technology tools we have in order to continue to provide the service. We believe onsite and in person is always the best response, but it isn’t the only response. And while the other responses may not be as effective, it’s better than not doing it. So, you try to reach people in the best way that you can.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:31:04] Fantastic. So, in looking at your career and you look at kind of over your career journey, if you had to choose one thing or accomplishment that you’re most proud of, what would you choose?

Jim Mortensen: [00:31:21] I think the thing I’m most proud of is the way we dealt with last year. Last year was, by far, the most challenging time for any company and any set of leaders. And if you think back to the start of COVID how rapidly things were changing. I remember mid-one week, people raising, “Are we going to send people home and work remote?” And I wondered why people were overreacting so much. And by Monday of the next week, we had 100 percent of our people at home. And I felt like we were too slow to react. And it was just things were changing that rapidly.

Jim Mortensen: [00:32:13] And the thing I’m proud of is that the company was able to react and respond that quickly. And through the weeks and months following, we went through a period that was the busiest we’ve ever had. And then, probably six months of the business being very, very slow. And we didn’t do layoffs. We managed to just tough it out and get through that. And we kept finding out what do people need and getting support to them.

Jim Mortensen: [00:32:48] We reached out to families and asked what their kids needed. And we had days where one person would just take over and do Zoom calls with a bunch of kids and do crafts to take some of the pressure off of working parents. We had food delivered. We had counselors available. Just all the different things the company was able to bring to the table to help our employees while our employees were providing critical support to the infrastructure of our country. So, that’s what I’m proudest of is what we were able to do during that time.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:33:31] Yeah. Fabulous. Like, you were delivering on what you promised to your customers, to your employees, which is very honorable in terms of a lot of companies offer a lot of services, but sometimes don’t always return it back to those employees delivering it. So, that’s fantastic. So, if our listeners wanted to get a hold of you, how can they do that?

Jim Mortensen: [00:33:54] Well, I’m on LinkedIn. My email address is jim.mortensen@r3c.com. And you can look at our website. I’m happy to talk to anybody about what they’re facing and what their needs are.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:34:13] Well, thank you so much for being on the show with us today, Jim, and letting us celebrate you, and for sharing your stories and great advice with our listeners. We appreciate you and I know for sure that the organization does as well and as does your staff. So, thank you so much for being a part of our show.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:34:31] And we also want to thank our show sponsor, R3 Continuum, for supporting the Workplace MVP podcast. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you’ve not already done so, make sure to subscribe so you get our most recent episodes and other resources. You can also follow our show on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter at Workplace MVP. And if you are a workplace MVP or know someone who is, we want to know. Email us at info@workplace-mvp.com. Thank you all for joining us and have a great rest of your day.