

How Your Money Story Shapes Your Pricing: Bill Cates on The Hidden Heist (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 154)
Many expert-service pros quietly carry money worries into every pricing decision they make. They undercharge, hesitate to raise fees, or avoid looking too closely at their finances, even while they help clients make sound business decisions. In this episode of The Price and Value Journey, John Ray talks with referral and money-story expert Bill Cates about how the stories you absorbed about money early in life still shape your business today.
Bill shares ideas from his new parable, The Hidden Heist: Stop Robbing Yourself of Lasting Wealth, and explains why so many professionals operate from scarcity, money anxiety, and what he calls “money denial.” He and John connect those mindsets to common pricing traps, like discounting by reflex, staying in “satisfied” territory instead of becoming truly remarkable, and quietly resenting clients while never asking for referrals.
Listeners will hear how to think of money as something that flows toward value, why you cannot become someone you secretly resent, and how inherited beliefs about “people with money” can cap your earning potential. Bill also talks about building “business friendships” that lead to advocacy and why curiosity and empathy are the best tools you have to uncover a client’s own money story.
If you want to strengthen your pricing, feel more grounded talking about fees, and stop letting old money narratives run your firm from the shadows, this conversation will help you start that work.
The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.
Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode
- Notice the money messages you grew up with and how they still show up in your pricing, discounting, and growth decisions.
- Shift from a fixed-pie view of money to seeing it as something that flows toward genuine value and outcomes.
- Move from “my clients are satisfied” to “my clients love me” and then to being truly remarkable and referable.
- Build “business friendships” with clients, where strong results and genuine personal connection sit side by side.
- Use curiosity and follow-up questions to surface a client’s hidden money beliefs so you can serve them better and avoid false assumptions.
- Stop money denial by taking responsibility for your own financial clarity instead of abdicating everything to advisers.
Topics Discussed in this Episode
00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Bill Cates
01:59 Bill Cates’ Background and Adventures
03:05 The Hidden Heist: A Unique Approach to Financial Literacy
04:56 Understanding Money Stories and Limiting Beliefs
07:31 The Scarcity Mindset and Its Impact
10:47 Getting into the Flow of Money
17:41 Inherited Money Stories and Their Effects
22:32 The Power of Awareness and Money Stories
22:45 Basic Financial Principles
22:59 Working with Financial Professionals
23:16 Understanding Money Mindsets
24:53 The Importance of Masterminds and Advisory Boards
27:05 Money Denial and Its Impact
32:17 The Role of Financial Advisors
37:04 Empathy and Client Relationships
41:15 Conclusion and Resources
Bill Cates, Referral Coach International

Bill Cates is an internationally recognized expert in relationship marketing and referrals, serving as the president of Referral Coach International and the founder of The Cates Academy for Relationship Marketing, where he assists financial advisors and other professionals in achieving exponential growth by multiplying their best clients through warm introductions rather than traditional prospecting. He is a Hall of Fame keynote speaker and bestselling author of books such as Get More Referrals Now, Beyond Referrals, Radical Relevance, and The Language of Referrals. Additionally, he hosts the Top Advisor Podcast, interviewing top performers about client acquisition and growth strategies.
Referral Coach International is Bill Cates’ consulting and training firm dedicated to helping advisors, teams, and organizations build a referral‑driven, relationship marketing culture based on how clients actually prefer to meet new advisors: through recommendations and introductions from people they already trust. The firm’s unique Bill Cates Relationship Marketing System and the “3 R’s of Relationship Marketing” focus on identifying a specific target market, clearly communicating valuable information, building a strong reputation in a niche area, and then using that reputation to generate a steady stream of suitable client referrals and introductions.
RCI delivers its work through video-based training, one‑on‑one and team coaching, live workshops, and consulting, with a particular emphasis on financial advisors and advisory firms that want to increase revenue without increasing their marketing budget. Across these programs, the aim is to help professionals become “super referrable,” systematize how they ask for and receive introductions, and create a business where high-trust, high-conversion referral opportunities are a primary engine of growth.
John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.
John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.
John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.
John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.
John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices
John Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.
If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you deliver to clients and, in turn, more effectively price to receive a portion of that value.
Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.
Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.
If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.
The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.










The Drake House is a 501(c)3 organization that works to respond to the growing number of women and children experiencing homelessness in North Fulton. They involve members of our community in the effort to keep single mothers and their children united under one roof as they work toward self-sufficiency.





Rick Critchly is Vice President and General Manager in the Iron Mountain Data Centers. Rick previously served as the Chief Operating Officer for IO Data Centers, Vice President of Global Sales for Core Link Datacenters and the Chief Operating Officer for Cyber Trails, a national provider of IT services.
Anne Landers is the Senior Director of Marketing and Development for Junior Achievement of Arizona (JA), a Tempe-based nonprofit that educates tens of thousands of primarily low-income children about financial literacy and career readiness. She has been with JA for five years, is the first marketing director in 20 years – and by far the most sophisticated we’ve ever had – and oversees all digital, PR, marketing and advertising. She is also the first person to build our data management program for donor and volunteer engagement. Anne’s title does not adequately describe her role or importance – Anne is a key member of JA’s leadership team and has been fundamental in leading monumental change for a VERY old-school organization. For perspective, JA had no Wi-Fi five years ago.
After graduating from Bolivar-Richburg High School in rural western New York and joining the United States Army, Kelly Greene learned quickly to adapt to her surroundings to be successful. She attended Wittenberg University in Springfield, Ohio and played shortstop on the Tiger softball team while earning her Bachelor’s Degree in Elementary Education.
Chief Science Officer (CSO) Shalae Clemens is a member of the International Leadership Council and the current CSO of the Year.

Tim Sheehan is the Co-Founder and CEO of 


throughout their lives as consumers, savers and investors, workers, entrepreneurs, citizens, and participants in a global economy.
Elena Zee is President and CEO of the Arizona Council on Economic Education. Prior to this role, Elena had worked in the global financial services industry for more than twenty years, with her first job as an econometrician developing predictive modeling to launch new products at American Express in New York. She was then promoted to Director of International Operations responsible for customer service, business growth and process improvement worldwide.
Lupe Camargo has been serving clients as a financial planner for 15 years. She received her undergraduate degree from Arizona State, and her MBA from University of Texas at Austin. Prior to becoming a financial planner, Lupe held management positions with US West and Honeywell.

Marie Burns, a Certified Financial Planner (CFP®), has been advocating for clients’ financial health for almost 20 years.
ACEE is the author of Arizona K-12 Economic Education Academic Standards and the only organization in Arizona which: provides teacher professional development in teaching personal finance and economics; has a strong, affiliated academic base with universities and community colleges; and distributes proven economic education curriculum resources to schools free of charge.
Elena Zee started her career in the private sector at American Express before becoming President and CEO of the Arizona Council on Economic Education. Elena has a Master’s Degree in Economics from Columbia University and Double Bachelor’s degrees in Economics and Math from Wellesley College. Elena serves on the board of Organization for Nonprofit Executives, the National Association of Economic Educators and Global Economics Education Alliance. She was the former President of Phi Beta Kappa Phoenix Association, promoting excellence in liberal arts and science higher education.
Murray Smith is a Financial Planner at KeatsConnelly, the largest cross-border wealth management firm in North America that specializes in helping Canadians and Americans realize their dreams of a cross-border lifestyle. Murray is responsible for providing financial planning recommendations to move people efficiently toward their financial goals. His recommendations are formed from a deep understanding of a client’s situation, values and goals combined with his expertise, experience and skills in financial planning and analysis.
Kris Anest has been in the brokerage business since February 1987. She started her career with Fidelity Investments working in Salt Lake City, Utah and Boston, Massachusetts.
Marie Burns, a Certified Financial Planner (CFP) with insurance and securities licenses, has been advocating for clients as a financial advisor for close to 20 years. She is a member of the Financial Planning Association nationally and locally, 100+ Women Who Care, Ahwatukee Foothills Friends and Neighbors, and Mountain Park Church. Originally from Wisconsin, she has helped clients with their financial lives in a bank setting, accounting firm, at Vanguard, at a financial planning firm and now writes and speaks and has her own practice with an independent Registered Investment Advisory firm. She enjoys cooking, reading, walking, hiking, Zumba and especially creating memories with family and friends.



Anne Landers is the Senior Director of Marketing and Development for Junior Achievement of Arizona, a Tempe-based nonprofit that prepares 83,000 primarily low-income children to succeed in work and life each year by educating them about fi
For over a decade, Nicole Anderson has worked at Arizona State University where currently she is the Manager of Marketing, Communications and Stakeholder Relations for the ASU Lodestar Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Innovation within the Watts College of Public Service & Community Solutions. She serves as President of the Sun Devil Club’s Young Professionals Group and the
Jacqueline Destremps is a creative marketing strategist and founded 













