John Ray: [00:00:00] And hello again, everyone. I’m John Ray on The Price and Value Journey. Today, we’re going to talk about imposter syndrome. And I think that’s an important topic for anyone who sells what’s between their ears. Because what’s between your ears and imposter syndrome can get mixed up in a big way, particularly if you’re coming out of corporate. You’ve had this shelter of corporate, maybe the branding and the assistance that comes from corporate. And, suddenly, you’re out in your own practice trying to do all your own thing, comparing yourselves to everyone else out there that’s doing what you’re doing, and wondering whether you’re doing it right or whether you belong where you are.

John Ray: [00:00:50] And we’ve got a fantastic guest to talk about this important subject. Stacey Ruth is the CEO of Unstoppable Leader. Stacey founded two multimillion dollar agencies. She’s been among the top 50 Entrepreneurs Under 50 in Atlanta. And twice awarded the Top 100 It Agencies by Experiential Marketer.

Stacey Ruth: [00:01:14] As a novice entrepreneur, Stacey made nearly every business decision mistake possible – wow. And she learned how to make the necessary personal transformations in order to thrive – even bigger wow. Her businesses survived personal challenges, the fallout of 9-11, deep recessions, and her own health issues resulting from a battle with imposter syndrome.

John Ray: [00:01:41] Today, she coaches other CEOs and executives on how to make faster and more accurate decisions using their personal wisdom. She’s a passionate advocate for women leaders claiming their own seat at the table that they designed for themselves. She’s got a new book out, it’s her second book following her first one, and her new book is called Own Your Own Shift, and it’s available on Amazon. And as we record this, it’ll be out in a few weeks on April 19, 2022. Stacey Ruth, it’s a pleasure to have you on.

Stacey Ruth: [00:02:17] Absolutely a pleasure to be here. I think you’ve got a really, really great group of listeners who can really benefit from what we’re talking about today. This is going to be great.

John Ray: [00:02:27] Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate you being willing to share what you’ve got to share about your own journey. But talk about how you started your practice and just the background of your practice. What led you to go out on your own?

Stacey Ruth: [00:02:44] That’s a great one, because I was actually in a corporate agency. We were the largest global production and event marketing agency in the world at one time. And I’ll say, it was pre-focused on diversity and inclusion. And it was very much a, I’ll say, male lily white type of environment, very much like Mad Men if anyone watches that. And I was very much seduced, if you will, by the excitement and being a part of it. And it was also a sweatshop and I was very exhausted. And couldn’t kind of keep up with the politics. We were buying a new company, literally, every week at the time. And so, I chose to take the leap out on my own. And it was still in an industry that was male dominated.

Stacey Ruth: [00:03:52] And I don’t know if you and your listeners are aware, but imposter syndrome is not just up to the moment term that people are using to describe self-doubt. It’s actually a diversity and inclusion issue. And it belongs to the people who are first only or different in an industry or in a business or an organization.

Stacey Ruth: [00:04:17] And I was a woman CEO of a fast growing agency, and what was at the time a male dominated field. And I immediately started experiencing this since I was young and I was female, that maybe I didn’t have what it took. And then, I started trying to shore myself up. And that’s when things went a little bit sideways.

John Ray: [00:04:47] Now, was this before you left to start your own firm, or was it during this big firm experience that you had, or both?

Stacey Ruth: [00:04:56] Well, both. The big firm experience kind of set me up to feel that I was down in power structure as a young female. And I talk about that in my upcoming book, Inside Out Smart. And we’re talking about biases. And we’re talking about assumptions. And we’re talking about how society shapes a lot of our beliefs about ourselves. And so, it’s shaped a lot of my beliefs about what I was and was not capable of, even though I’m a relatively gregarious and confident person. But in that context, I experienced a sense of maybe I don’t belong here and maybe they’ll find out I don’t know what I’m doing. And that just carried over into starting my own business.

John Ray: [00:05:54] So, how were you able to start your own business when you had imposter syndrome to begin with?

Stacey Ruth: [00:06:02] That’s great, because the idea behind being able to move forward is to be able to tap into our inner concept of our self, our inner wisdom. Some of that is intuition. Some of that is our ability to connect to our own purpose, our own values. And I had enough of that to be able to take the risk, to take the leap. And that’s true of most entrepreneurs. And we have a growing entrepreneurial culture going on right now.

Stacey Ruth: [00:06:41] But 84 percent of entrepreneurs self-identify with imposter syndrome. So, it’s not just women, it’s not just underrepresented demographics, it’s not just black or brown or gay, LGBTQ+, whatever it is. There are things that will lead us to believe that maybe we don’t have what it takes. And someone somewhere is going to find out and we’ll be outed.

John Ray: [00:07:15] So, talk about what happened with you as you built your own firm. What was that journey like? What was going on with the firm? And then, what was going on with this arc of imposter syndrome for you?

Stacey Ruth: [00:07:32] Oh, absolutely. And, you know, I’m going to be really real with you, because I was my own worst nightmare boss when I started the agency. And so, I did what a lot of individuals with imposter syndrome will do.

Stacey Ruth: [00:07:51] And when we talk a little bit about how people can contact me, I do have an imposter syndrome workbook where people can identify whether they have it. There’s some questions on there and then ways to deal with it.

Stacey Ruth: [00:08:05] But I was micromanaging, so I was hovering over the folks that worked with me. I brought in additional executives who were men, who were older than me, in order to shore up what I felt was lacking credibility. I also was over delivering, over performing. So, I was burning the candle at both ends. I was working around the clock, 80 hour workweeks. And it was never enough. It was never enough for me. And my employees could never do enough for me in that dynamic.

Stacey Ruth: [00:08:50] So, a lot of people who are solopreneurs can identify and then they can also experience what might be going on in their organizations if they have employees or vendor partners and suppliers.

Stacey Ruth: [00:09:02] And what wound up happening to me, I didn’t realize what was going on. That was just what I thought I had to do. And what wound up happening to me – and I share this when I speak on imposter syndrome – is there was a day when I found myself on the floor of the women’s bathroom. My hair had been falling out. I was having headaches 24/7. And, now, I was bleeding internally. And that’s the level of pressure and stress that imposter syndrome puts on us.

Stacey Ruth: [00:09:38] And I’ve heard other women leaders talk about similar kinds of health issues. Arianna Huffington talks about it. I know there’s a number of people that discuss it. So, if we internalize it rather than recognizing it and dealing with it, it can actually do some serious damage to our physical well-being.

John Ray: [00:09:59] Did you attribute at that time imposter syndrome to the physical symptoms you are having? Or did that take a time to make that connection?

Stacey Ruth: [00:10:11] No, I did not. It took time to make that connection. And one of the reasons that I’m so willing to share what I went through was I actually was reading what Arianna Huffington was going through. I was reading what other women with imposter syndrome were going through, because I was following other women leaders, like, what are they doing? And so, I was starting to hear these stories and I was like, “Oh. That’s me.” And so, it was this slow dawning by hearing other people share what they were going through and how they were dealing with it.

John Ray: [00:10:48] And so, you really didn’t know imposter syndrome was to blame for any of this until you really identified it in others.

Stacey Ruth: [00:10:59] Correct. And I mean, I’ve certainly studied it, immersed myself in it, so that I really can deal with it. And I think I’m on a mission to share it with others, because given that I am a lifelong entrepreneur, given that I do believe that entrepreneurship is crucial as a foundation for our entire economic structure, and 84 percent of entrepreneurs are dealing with this. I think it’s so important to get it out there and not let people just think, “Oh, well. I just doubt myself.” Oh, no. There’s more going on. And it’s possible to overcome it, and it’s not difficult once you recognize it.

John Ray: [00:11:47] But what you’re implying here – or you’re not implying. You’re saying it flat out – thank you – is that you can go on and function “normally” for years and suddenly hit a wall, because that’s what I think I hear you saying was it captures your experience with imposter syndrome.

Stacey Ruth: [00:12:13] Yes. And, in fact, the more you achieve and the higher you go, I’ll say, the rarer the air where you are, the more likely you are to experience imposter syndrome in a new role in an organization where there aren’t any others like you at the level at which you’ve achieved. So, that’s what really starts to trigger it, first, only different and high achieving.

John Ray: [00:12:49] So, you found yourself on the bathroom floor. You had all these physical symptoms that were so powerful. What happened? How did you take care of yourself physically, number one? And number two, when did that connection come? You know, did it take a while before you read about Miss Huffington and others that had this same issue?

Stacey Ruth: [00:13:15] Well, I think that it tends to be when we start to realize something’s wrong and we start looking around for what it could be, that we start to see things that were right there in front of our face that we never saw before. And that certainly was my experience. Now, I had already been through all of the physical tests and they couldn’t find anything physically wrong with me, with standard blood work and all. I even had an MRI.

Stacey Ruth: [00:13:44] But I did go get therapy help with what was going on because everyone pretty much settled on. It was stress. And as we were getting into that conversation, I started to realize that it was really my concept of what was necessary and what I deserved that was not being met. And I was the only one who could meet it. And, of course, I was seeing what other women were experiencing kind of in concert with that.

John Ray: [00:14:19] Right. Right. Say more about that, the part about what you deserved. I mean, what was your mindset there?

Stacey Ruth: [00:14:27] Well, my mindset was classic for imposter syndrome. And the definition of imposter syndrome is, no matter what you’ve achieved, you tend to dismiss it as luck, knowing the right people. It’s something outside of your control. It has nothing to do with the fact that you actually worked really hard for it. You were really qualified for it. You really did the work. You did the work and you got yourself there. So, I realized I was pushing away my own credibility and handing over my success to outside situations, people that they were supportive but they didn’t cause it, if that makes sense.

John Ray: [00:15:19] So, for you, what did the arc of recovery look like? Was it something that took a while? Was it something that you had on the other extreme, a moment of pure insight where you saw the light from the heavens and you knew you were worthy? I mean, talk about the arc of your recovery.

Stacey Ruth: [00:15:41] Well, the arc of my recovery was starting to apply a lot of the tools. And the tools, for the most part, they are self-awareness and mindset tools. So, was I picking up the tools going, “This will fix my imposter syndrome”? No, not exactly. The first thing I was trying to do was get my self back in balance. As I’m getting myself back in balance, what I’m doing is talking to other people about what I’m actually feeling inside.

Stacey Ruth: [00:16:18] As impostors, we don’t want to let others see how hard we’re paddling just underneath the surface. And being able to have someone that I trusted, who I didn’t feel like sharing with them was going to sabotage anything I was doing in my career was extremely powerful. So, being able to share what you’re going through is critical. It gets it out of your head and allows you to get perspective.

Stacey Ruth: [00:16:45] Another thing that’s very important was being able to let go of some perfectionism and let go of some of that micromanaging control, which was part of the work. The other thing – and this may sound a little woo-woo to your audience, but it is probably one of the most powerful tools for dealing with imposter syndrome – is to be able to shift our internal mantras. And one of the ones that imposters have, especially if they’re starting their own business, is, no one will pay that much for what I do.

John Ray: [00:17:22] Oh, yes.

Stacey Ruth: [00:17:25] And you can shift that into an affirmation. And my agency, initially, was notoriously under charging for our services. No one will pay that much for what we do. And when we flipped that and said, “No. We are charging fair market value for very valuable services.” So, when you do an affirmation, your brain has to believe it’s possible. So, the way out there, affirmations aren’t as effective as simply saying I provide a service that has real value, and owning the value that you provide.

Stacey Ruth: [00:18:17] So, those are some of the things that it’s not a grand sweeping shift. It’s making those micromovements that continue to assert, I deserve it, I’m worth it, and I bring something of value through my experience.

John Ray: [00:18:38] Folks, we’re here chatting with Stacey Ruth. She is the CEO of Unstoppable Leader. I want to circle back around to, I guess, the how I know I’ve got imposter syndrome. For you, it was more obvious than maybe it is for some others who maybe they don’t have the physical symptoms. Maybe they haven’t hit that wall yet. But how do they know that they’ve got something that’s serious that they better take care of?

Stacey Ruth: [00:19:11] Well, I think one of the easiest ways to get our brain around the symptoms are – and this comes out of the book, The Secret Thoughts of Professional Women by one of the kind of forerunner researchers on imposter syndrome in women, which was discovered in the early ’70s – she defines five personality types.

Stacey Ruth: [00:19:37] One of them is the super hero. And that’s the person who’s going to do it all and take on that one more thing. And people are like, “Oh, my gosh. How do you get that all done?” So, if that resonates with you, you might have imposter syndrome. Another one is the expert. That’s the person who always has to have one more degree, one more credential, one more certification. They have all of this knowledge, but they can’t quite get out of the gate. And, you know, a lot of coaches deal with that. But not just coaches, a lot of folks feel that need.

Stacey Ruth: [00:20:20] Another one is – and I don’t think she calls it this. Oh, yes. She does – the natural genius. And the natural genius has always learned things really easily and things come easily to them. So, they’re smart, they’re capable. And then, they bump up against that one thing that it doesn’t come as natural to them and they don’t really know how to learn something new because it’s always been so easy for them. And so, they start to doubt themselves because, “Why is this one hard?” So, that’s another one, if that resonates.

Stacey Ruth: [00:21:04] And then, there are the perfectionists, the person who’s always got to get it 100 percent right all the time or do nothing. So, there’s a fear of failure behind that, and that leads to a lot of procrastination, which can also be a hallmark of the imposter syndrome. [Inaudible].

John Ray: [00:21:23] Well, for those folks, if they ever get it sent out or hit send or hit publish, whatever, then they’re looking at all the errors in it that they should have caught. Right?

Stacey Ruth: [00:21:36] It’s what keeps a lot of people from writing that book. It keeps people from applying for that job. It keeps people from making their deadlines. Or – oh, my gosh. This one – that burst of energy that gets you across the finish line and the person says, “Oh, well. I’m really motivated when I have a deadline, so I’ll get it done.” And yet that’s actually not how our brains work. So, what actually happens is, yeah, you get it done, but it’s probably got a lot of mistakes in it. So, the procrastination and perfectionism which can go hand in hand can actually feed each other.

Stacey Ruth: [00:22:23] So, if any of those resonated, someone might be dealing with a case of imposter syndrome. Mine was classic and mine was intense. Not everyone’s is that classic or that intense. And yet, if it goes without being dealt with, it can build, which was also what happened for me.

John Ray: [00:22:46] Now, speaking of intense, I saw Sheryl Sandberg, formerly with Facebook and Google. She said that both men and women are susceptible to imposter syndrome, but that women tend to experience it more intensely and be more limited by it. What’s your perspective on that?

Stacey Ruth: [00:23:09] This is true. It was first identified in women and in the ’70s where women were coming into the workforce. And I said it earlier in the conversation, imposter syndrome is really a diversity and inclusion issue. Because we, as a society, tend to feel like if I’m the only woman or only fill in the blank, any underrepresented demographic – I’ll just use women because it was first discovered with women – then I feel like there’s no one I can relate to. And, therefore, I don’t belong.

Stacey Ruth: [00:23:53] So, there’s a sense of not belonging where we are, because when we look around in the landscape, we can’t identify with anyone else. So, that’s one reason that women and other underrepresented demographics will feel that way.

Stacey Ruth: [00:24:09] Another reason, especially for women, we feel like we might be betraying other responsibilities. So, we might be betraying because that’s still the way the society is structured, “I have the responsibility for the home. I have the responsibility for the kids.” And then, “I’m not being true to that responsibility.” And, also, “What about my peers? I’ve now left them behind.” So, all of those internal struggles can really feed it, especially for women.

John Ray: [00:24:44] Okay. I don’t want to get men off the hook here.

Stacey Ruth: [00:24:48] No. They’re not off the hook. No, no. Especially male entrepreneurs.

John Ray: [00:24:55] Yeah. Let’s pull them in here. So, what is the issue with men? Do they not have imposter syndrome as much? Do they not talk about it as much but they really do have it underneath the surface? What’s going on with men?

Stacey Ruth: [00:25:14] Well, again, I think that especially when men achieve a certain level within an organization, that high achieving man, the man who goes out on his own and starts a business, we have then put ourselves in a first only different situation. So, all the same feelings can apply, “I’ve left my peers behind. My peer group is back there, they’re behind me. Why am I so special? So, I don’t belong here.”

Stacey Ruth: [00:25:54] Maybe the guy was a the natural genius. And now suddenly, “I’m doing something I have no context for, no experience for, and I don’t know what to do. And I feel like somebody’s going to find out that I don’t know what I’m doing.” All the same rules apply.

John Ray: [00:26:14] I got it. So, let’s talk a little bit about, I guess, how you deal with it. And do you need a third party? You mentioned getting therapy, do you need a third party, a live person to be able to help? Maybe a trusted adviser or a coach, someone like that? And if so, how do you find that person? Because you’re at a moment of, obviously, doubt, how do you find a trusted person that you can walk that journey with?

Stacey Ruth: [00:26:54] Well, as a coach, I happen to believe that no one “needs a coach”. Now, all the coaches are going to cringe when I say this. I don’t believe anyone needs a coach. I believe that coaches accelerate what we’re ready to lean into. They give perspective, accountability, and all of those kinds of things that it just takes longer and it can be harder to do on our own.

Stacey Ruth: [00:27:26] So, can someone get over imposter syndrome on their own? Yes. Of course, they can. They can pick up the books. They can do the blogs. They can get all the information. Putting it into application is so much faster and easier when you do it with somebody who understands. So, that is possible with a mastermind support group. It’s possible with a coach, like myself. It’s possible with a mentor. It’s possible with a therapist. I mean, there’s a number of outlets that you can work through.

Stacey Ruth: [00:28:02] I think for CEOs, especially women CEOs, who especially deal with this, working with a coach who’s been there, done that, got the t-shirt, is a great way to accelerate getting through that because it does slow you down, limit your growth, and limit what kind of income you can generate.

John Ray: [00:28:27] Yeah. I want to get to that now because this is The Price and Value Journey and I’m all about pricing. And you brought that up earlier, so I want to get to income and pricing here in just a second.

John Ray: [00:28:42] But you mentioned the term get over it, getting over it, and I don’t know what the term is, do you ever really get over it? Or maybe it’s a bad analogy that once an alcoholic, you’re always an alcoholic. It’s just a matter of controlling it and dealing with it mentally, the mental aspect of it, and doing what you’ve got to do, whether you’re in AA or whatever, to walk that journey as an alcoholic. Are you always suffering from imposter syndrome or it’s just a matter of controlling it?

Stacey Ruth: [00:29:20] Well, that’s an interesting choice of analogy.

John Ray: [00:29:25] Maybe it’s a bad analogy, Stacey, but –

Stacey Ruth: [00:29:28] No. Actually, I don’t know that it is. Actually, I’m going to pause for a moment. I’m going to say something I really want your listeners to lean in and hear this.

Stacey Ruth: [00:29:45] If you’re dealing with imposter syndrome, it’s not your fault. Because a lot of people will take that on and say, “There’s something wrong with me. What’s going on?” It’s not your fault. You’re a product of the society and the society’s beliefs and values. You can change yours. So, choosing to change is the important thing.

Stacey Ruth: [00:30:12] And the reason I said that that’s not such a bad analogy with someone who’s dealing with addiction, whether it’s alcoholism, drug addiction, or any other kind of addiction, is, the 12 step programs say, the solution is actually to understand, have a self-awareness, a consciousness of who you are in the context of the greater whole. And change how you’re seeing yourself so that you don’t feel empty inside. That you don’t feel like you’re lacking something inside.

Stacey Ruth: [00:30:47] And they say it’s of a spiritual nature. Well, I believe spirituality is based on values, and purpose, and meaning. And a lot of people who are dealing with imposter syndrome have kind of disconnected from their internal guidance system, which is values-based, purpose-based, meaning-based. And we’re really measuring ourselves by these externals.

Stacey Ruth: [00:31:08] We’re constantly comparing ourselves to everyone else and looking for affirmation that we’re okay. They’re not going to kick us out of the club today because they didn’t find out that we don’t really belong here. So, instead, we can turn in to our own inner guidance system that says, “No. I’m perfect, whole, complete exactly the way I am and I can do this. And if I need help, that’s not an admission of weakness. That’s an admission of willingness to grow and learn.”

John Ray: [00:31:46] I mean, we talked extensively about your bathroom floor experience. I want to give you a chance to talk about the other side of that. And just as you’ve been able to recognize and then put that experience in the box it belongs in your life. What has been the result for you and your business and your life?

Stacey Ruth: [00:32:15] Oh, my gosh. Well, I will tell you, I stopped racing. I love that question. I stopped racing against myself. It felt like I was competing with people, competitors, the industry, other CEOs. I was trying to be better, stronger, faster, all of that. I was doing it at the expense of my poor body that was just trying to serve me.

Stacey Ruth: [00:32:51] And, by the way, I do want you to know that I am 100 percent healed physically from that. So, I feel more energetic. I feel more engaged. But mostly I feel more fulfilled. The money is great. I mean, here we are, price value, you know. The money is great. It doesn’t fill the gap of self-doubt that is created by imposter syndrome. It never is enough because it’s always external.

Stacey Ruth: [00:33:29] So, what happened is I got a lot more satisfaction and I’m like, “Well, hey, this is doing something that is really of service I really love, and I get paid good money for doing it. What more do you want?”

John Ray: [00:33:45] Great words and great story here from Stacey Ruth. She’s the CEO of Unstoppable Leader. So, Stacey, let’s talk about pricing. Let’s get there. So, for you, how did imposter syndrome affect your pricing? How did you get to a point where, again, you put that in the box and kept it from affecting how you communicate and talk about your value?

Stacey Ruth: [00:34:26] Yeah. Well, it’s interesting – let me collect my thoughts on this one. Imposter syndrome can continue to pop up even after you’ve done the work. You recognize it when it does. And one of the places that it popped up for me recently, in like the last three years, when I really leaned in to doing the executive coaching, which I had people asking me to coach them, so I said, “Well, there’s a need for this. I’d be happy to step in and do this and I love it. I absolutely love it.”

Stacey Ruth: [00:35:11] And that little impostor syndrome sitting on my shoulder whispered in my ear – this is classic imposter syndrome – “Who do you think you are to coach CEOs and executives who are more successful financially, hierarchy, all of that, than you are?” And so, I’m walking through this because the answer to that is, “I don’t need to be more powerful, more successful in order to be able to serve. What I’m able to do is help them bring out their own inner wisdom.”

Stacey Ruth: [00:35:58] That’s what coaches do. We ask powerful questions and we help people discover their own truth, and their own value, and their own worth. So, I don’t have to lord it over them. I’m not even supposed to. That’s not my job. And so, I know what my value is and so I could set that imposter syndrome off my shoulder and say, “No. No. Not today. We’re not going to do that because that’s not even the truth of the experience,” if that makes sense.

Stacey Ruth: [00:36:30] I’m not sure if I answered your question, but I felt like that was an important shift for people to be able to hear that. I can charge what an executive coach charges because I’m being an executive coach. I’m not being the executive.

John Ray: [00:36:43] Right. Right. And I think what I hear you saying is that you really switched in your head from thinking about making this comparison of externals, external position, power, authority, whatever, to the outcome that you’ll help foster in the person that you’re going to be working with. And that’s where the value is, right?

Stacey Ruth: [00:37:14] Correct. That’s where the value is. And I’ve been in other industries. I’ve been in marketing. And a lot of folks are starting all different kinds of marketing and sales type organizations right now just as rife with imposter syndrome and pricing is all over the highway. And a lot of startup businesses are nickeling and diming on things that really have more value.

Stacey Ruth: [00:37:49] And you can get something on Fiverr for $5. Why would I pay someone $1,200, $2,000 for the same thing I could get for $5 on Fiverr? And so, that leads to a lot of imposter syndrome. Why should I charge $2,000 for this? Well, because you are providing the service. You’re making sure it’s tailored and customized. Whatever is going on there that makes it a higher value, own it.

John Ray: [00:38:24] Well, people are making the wrong comparison, right? I mean, they’re looking at the competitors instead of looking at the outcome they bring about. And they may have done this – like you’re saying you may have done this – many times before, but that doubt and that, “Oh, they won’t pay that,” that voice that comes in your head, it still comes back. And so, do you treat it like a friend and just wave at it and say, “Okay. I see you,” and they keep going. Is that what you do? That’s what it sounds like.

Stacey Ruth: [00:38:58] A little bit. A little bit. And the steps I go through are awareness, “Oh, I recognize that voice. I know what that voice is about. Okay. We’re having an impostor moment. Let’s just have a moment.” And then, when that happens, “Okay. Is that true?” Questioning those thoughts is critical to shifting them, “Is that true?” If it’s not true or if I don’t know that it’s true, what’s an alternative? And then, pursuing the alternative and testing it. Being willing to test that alternative. And that’s really how the shift occurs. Individual variations, of course. But that’s the critical component is awareness and then questioning our thoughts about that.

John Ray: [00:39:57] You know, I’m so glad we could do this show because I work with folks a lot on their pricing, and what I recognized, the base problem for so many of them really is imposter syndrome. And that’s really the underlying problem. I’m not the psychologist. I’m not the coach like you are.

Stacey Ruth: [00:40:18] I’m not a psychologist, I just want to be clear. Neuroscience, yes. Psychologist, no.

John Ray: [00:40:24] Okay. Noted. But I guess what I would ask you, to submit to you, is, I think it’s dangerous for people to think about this in terms of, “Oh, I need to get what I’m worth, because that takes you down the internal conundrum that you’re going through and switch it toward outcomes I bring about.” And if you do that, it should help get you out of the whole business about thinking that it’s about you. It’s not about you. It’s about the outcomes you help foster with the work that you do.

John Ray: [00:41:15] And I realized for some people that may be a subtle difference. But that’s really the step folks need to take. That’s what I would think. Now, give me your reaction to that.

Stacey Ruth: [00:41:27] Well, it actually makes me think about something that a lot of new coaches are told, is, you’re not selling coaching. Coaching is what you do. It’s not who you are. And so, to be able to share the results that you create changes the entire conversation. So, helping someone get out of overwhelm, helping someone be able to get clarity around what next steps are, that’s what coaching does.

Stacey Ruth: [00:41:57] So, when somebody says, what do you do? I don’t say coaching. I say I help executives and CEOs who are dealing with exhaustion, overwhelm, a new position, a lot of change, and really help them get clarity and focus so they can grow their influence and impact. That’s what has value. That’s what creates the price value equation.

John Ray: [00:42:22] There you go. Yeah. I love it. I love it.

Stacey Ruth: [00:42:26] Yeah. Results are the deal. Results are the deal. And allowing yourself to own the results and not feel like you’re being full of yourself.

John Ray: [00:42:42] Yeah. I like it.

Stacey Ruth: [00:42:43] And to get the testimonials, to ask for the referrals, all of those things imposters will hold back on as well.

John Ray: [00:42:52] Great point. We could talk more about that, that’s for sure. But that’s a great way to end. Stacey Ruth, CEO of Unstoppable Leader. Wow. Stacey, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story in such a raw and real way. I really appreciate you.

John Ray: [00:43:16] And I just want to go back because I bungled your book when I mentioned your books.

Stacey Ruth: [00:43:21] All the books. All the books.

John Ray: [00:43:21] Yeah. That’s what happens when you release multiple books, right? So, Stacey’s first book was Own Your Own Shift.

Stacey Ruth: [00:43:32] Be careful how you say that. Yes.

John Ray: [00:43:35] That’s right. And I almost bungled that, too. But her new book is called Inside Out Smart. So, be on the lookout for Inside Out Smart.

Stacey Ruth: [00:43:45] Yeah. April 19th it launches.

John Ray: [00:43:46] Coming here in April 19, 2022. And Own Your Own Shift – I got that right – is out. It’s been out. You can get it right now. So, I wanted to clarify that for everyone. But, Stacey, again, thank you so much for coming on. Before we let you go, I would love it if you could, if you don’t mind, sharing your contact information so folks that are interested in hearing more about you and your work can be in touch?

Stacey Ruth: [00:44:15] Absolutely. I think one of the best places to reach me is through my website, unstoppable-leader.com. And you can find me all over social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Stacey Ruth Says, and that’s S-T-A-C-E-Y. So, I look forward to connecting with your listeners. You’re doing great work here.

John Ray: [00:44:42] Thank you, Stacey. I really appreciate you. And thanks again for coming on.

Stacey Ruth: [00:44:46] Thank you very much.

John Ray: [00:44:48] Folks, just a quick reminder, if you’re a newcomer to this series, you can find the full show archive at pricevaluejourney.com or on your favorite app. Just use that search term price value journey, you’ll find the show. And if you’d like to connect with me directly, just send me an email. john@johnray.co. Thank you for joining us.