Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for Coach the Coach Radio brought to you by the Business RadioX ambassador program, the no cost business development strategy for coaches who want to spend more time serving local business clients and less time selling them. Go to B-R X Ambassador dot com to learn more. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:32] Lee Kantor here, another episode of Coach the Coach Radio, and this is going to be a fun one today, we have with us Dr. Marc B. Cooper with MBC consultants. Welcome, Dr. Cooper.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:00:45] Thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:47] Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about MBC consultants, how you serve in folks.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:00:53] It has gone through numerous evolutions over its last thirty seven years. So as times have changed. NBC has changed and serve different clients and clients. And today we’re looking at doing something and I’m not sure at my age it’s the right thing to do, but bringing something new to the world to at least look at and consider and that being wisdom. So that’s what we’re up to at this moment.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:27] So you’re helping your clients become more wise? Yes, exactly. And then how do you go about doing that?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:01:38] That’s what makes wisdom so wonderful, is is there is no way, right way there is the way that the client has to begin to look at himself in the world from a different perspective of just producing results, but enhancing people’s capacity as human beings and in their performance. And from my point of view, the way this whole thing is moving. In the world, which is digitization, Newton said, you can’t two things can occupy the same space at the same time, the more digitization there is, the less wisdom is available. And I think people are the key. And somehow wisdom provides a particular way that people can see themselves and others that enhances their lives, enhances their performance. So that’s what I’m up to doing.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:36] Now, do you see kind of the paradox in the sense of now every person that has access to the Internet, has access to all the wisdom of the world, that all the learning, the education, they can learn pretty much anything they would like to learn from

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:02:53] At the time? I agree, except that in wisdom,

Lee Kantor: [00:02:57] But better they had

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:02:58] Information as in wisdom.

Lee Kantor: [00:03:00] So they have the information, but they don’t have the context in order to understand, appreciate and leverage the education.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:03:10] Well said in my view of the world, which is just my view. So, you know, one does not have to believe me. They have to live out of their own beliefs. But I believe the context is decisive and I believe that wisdom is a context. And inside of that context, people operate, speak, relate differently than they do in a digital context. There’s just something available that’s more humane, is something that’s available that’s more kind of something that’s more available, that’s more considerate. So I think bringing Wist I’m not saying get rid of the data. I’m just saying, boy, you better if you go all the way down the trail. I think there’s trouble brewing for people don’t want to be machines, people want to be people there. So wisdom brings that arena, that context inside.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:04] Now, do you find that once you go down that rabbit hole that you’ve just described, then that also connects to a community that just like there’s a lot of the the learnings available, there’s the ability to form community around the world. And then yet people are becoming less kind of community focused and more splintered and polarized.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:04:29] I think you’re accurate in your assessment. I never saw it as clearly as you just said it. Yeah, I think it has a divisionary capacity if we forget. But, you know, I don’t know where the and maybe it’s because I’m older and have become an elder that I see things differently than I did in my 40s and 50s. But right now, how I see the world and how I see the leaders I’m working with and the people that I’m working with, his man, they you know, life is hard and the smiles on their face, but it’s not in their heart. And so I think wisdom brings more heart to the conversation.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:10] And do you find that the wisdom is best gained in person?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:05:18] Well, let’s see, I don’t know how to answer that question, because I’ve only worked in person since covered for maybe four or five Rena’s, most of it has been through the screens that we’re now using today.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:32] But so one on one, let’s reframe that to one on one where it’s personal. It’s not kind of a mass.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:05:39] It’s both. I work with CEOs and I work with their executive teams and I work with them as a group because they’re often not seen from the outside in. They’re just looking from the inside into the inside. Wisdom brings a different perspective with them because have you ever thought looking at it like this, so wisdom sees things that they often don’t see or could be blind to, to be considered and when considered could change the environment and the effectiveness of how they’re working.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:16] Now, you mentioned that this wisdom has has come about the evolution over the years, do you think the the 30 year old you like, what would the 30 year old you have thought about wisdom?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:06:30] I my daughter’s a 30 year old. I think she’s very wise. I believe wisdom is an internal element that all of us have that needs to be developed as opposed to getting from. You talked about going out to the Internet and bringing it in. I think wisdom has to be brought from the inside out. Wisdom is eternal. The same Shakespeare said it 800 years ago and it’s still true today. To thine own self be true. If you take a look at the people, Aristotle, Socrates, whoever you considered to have wisdom, they they’re speaking their statements. Their sentences still are true today. My and again, my view is my view, but it looks like that kind of input is so missing in areas of the world, politics, business, neighborhoods, it’s just what you pointed to his community.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:36] Now, you said to my to my own self, be true. It is that kind of some of the problem, because if I’m saying that this is my truth and I’m going to live my truth, is that selfish? If I don’t if I’m not mindful of how it impacts others?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:08:01] Yes. The answer is, you know, you’ve got some wisdom there. You know, if it’s good for you and good for others, what you should be doing that.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:12] But we’re seeing a lot of I’m saying this is my truth. This is me. And then if somebody is disagreeing with me, then that person, it’s no longer right or wrong. It’s good or evil.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:08:25] It’s become righteousness. I’m right. Becomes righteousness. Yes. You know, that’s what’s missing. Wisdom can tolerate another person’s view of the world because their view of the world isn’t fixed. They may have something over there that you have never seen before. Why don’t you listen from some place other than I know and see what you hear, what you know, there may be something over there that you have already made up your mind about. So you can’t really hear to the depth of the person’s trying to say it. So one of the things wisdom brings is a way for people to listen to each other rather than hate each other. And because you can’t get things done that way or make up stories about each other or have prejudices about each other, it just I’m not saying it’s going to go away. I’m saying but it can be not as interfering in the way people work together

Lee Kantor: [00:09:24] As something that’s helped me kind of reframe some of those activities are I don’t look at anybody as a fully kind of develop being. I’m trying to look at everybody as kind of a beginner or a trainee and that we’re all learning together and that some people might be a little bit ahead of other people, but no one is kind of on purpose out to do something terrible or evil. I’m trying to look at people in terms of that. We’re all doing the best we can and we’re trying to figure this out. Does that kind of empathy, is that kind of part of this wisdom path?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:10:04] Absolutely. It’s hard it’s really hard not to be right, and it’s really hard to open up to some area which may expose some decision you made about yourself in order to make that about another person. So that’s an interesting way to begin to look at some things, just like, well, I think that about you because and that’s what’s under the because what’s underneath that? And pretty soon you start to look at yourself and when you start to look at yourself, you can hear people in a different way than you could when you’re just listening from that outer shell. So one might say that wisdom provides a kind of listening to others that allows for better communication and more effective communication.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:54] So now are there any symptoms that your clients are having before? The answer is, hey, we better call those NBC folks because we need help in this area

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:11:05] Or I don’t know. I don’t think it’s as recognizable that something’s wrong here. I need to fix it. Usually the precursor to this is, you know, it’s just not working the way I know it could work. People aren’t getting along. I’m fixing I’m putting bandaids on things circumstances are beginning to indicate. And where they’re looking is everywhere except where they should be looking, which is themselves said, hey, what am I doing here that’s making this happen? So people who are willing to take on responsibility for the way they are leading their entity and I know that they have restrictions because they’re reporting to boards and stockholders and all that. But how they’re leading could probably add some wisdom because they need better performance out of the people around them and they need to be able to talk to people with greater effectiveness. So they’ll be probably talking to a friend who is working with me who will say, hey, you know what? I had that same problem and this is what I did about it. And some people will call me that way. I don’t think I can market this. I don’t think so yet. I haven’t figured it out anyway.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:19] So the way that the word is spreading is by the people who are experiencing it, finding a benefit and then sharing it.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:12:28] Yeah, and LinkedIn has been wonderful to me. I have to admit, I do get inquiries and I do get phone calls and I do get movement out of there. And I think it’s so and I’m still I’m new at this. I talked about beginners. I’m a beginner. I’m starting up basically a new entity for the last three to five years on wisdom. And I didn’t need to. So that was the the the sweetest part about this. And so, you know, I’m in the 70s with enough money, thank God, knock wood and all of that to, you know, go out into the sunset. But I just saw something was missing in the way people were communicating and dealing with life and being in life. And they’re all at work 80 percent of the time. So where do you get I can go to the Buddhist temple and do my Saturdays and Wednesday nights, but I go to work 80 percent of the time. Where the change needs to happen is at work. And so I said, hey, you know, I’ve learned some stuff in my 76 years, maybe I could contribute something that’s interesting to leadership because I know that if wisdom were there, people would want to work there because something’s happening for them in their own lives, in their own way. They see the world in their own wisdom, wisdom as a gift. So that’s kind of what I see now.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:55] So now somebody raises their hand and says, Dr. Cooper, I’m in. What is the beginning of a relationship look like if you’re going to help me,

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:14:05] Just like this nice conversation to really find out what’s going on in your world and where you’re stuck. What’s chronic chronic issues are really interesting because they’re really held in place for a reason. People don’t understand the reason they’re held in place for once they see, oh, I see why I have that one. And then they’re asking different sets of questions about what can they do about it. But they’re also relating to the problem differently. So there’s I need I everyone is really individual. I you know, it’s just like what what are they working on? What are their responsibilities? What are their accountabilities? Who do they report to? Is this the future that they’re looking for this? You know, so there’s an assessment phase that for me and for them to see if it’s going to work for them. And then we figure out a program that feels right for them.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:59] Now, you consciously called your organization NBC consultants. How do you discern between consultants and coaches?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:15:09] Oh, a great question. Depends how you define it. And can I tell a little back story here? Sure. OK, so in the late eighties, a group of us got together who were all consulting, using a similar model of technologies to consult some IBM, some Merck, some. And I said I happen to be in the health care market at that point, doing practice management, which was wonderful for me and. We decided that what was missing in in consulting was coaching, so we hired the best coaches of that time to come and teach us coaching. So it was Red Auerbach. It was John Wooden was Tim Galloway with Border Everheart and it was George Allen. And so my initial thing about coaching was it’s about performance and it’s about people on the field and where I was trained with by athletic coaches in my coaching view of what I need to do to have that person perform better on the field, consulting can include lots of different things. You know, it I HRR could be very specific and very clean. So I consider myself a head coach. And when I’m coaching and is and looking at where the performance interferences are occurring and Tim Galloway, if you have a chance to read his inner game of golf, an entire game of tennis talks about the inner game that he, as he learned to coach, which was to change the perspective of the player, not change the activity of the player. So if he saw a ball coming at him as a threat, he would swat at it. But if he saw that that really was not it was not a threat, he would be able to naturally hit the backhand. So there’s much I’ve learned over the years. But coaching is about performance and consulting is really about systems, structures, process, although it can include this. So there are aspects of consulting that certainly can be coaching.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:26] And then when you’re working with folks together, you’re kind of helping them self author plan that’s effective to get them where they want to go.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:17:38] What I am, but I’m usually hired for is the it’s water to the fish, er to the bird culture to the company, and there are people that you’ve heard say culture is king. So there’s a there’s a certain model and methodology that I think that wisdom can bring to impact directly the culture. So it allows for people to feel better at work, be more emotionally committed at work, be more related work. So I focus on that stuff more than the strategic plan. And what are the goals and what is the one, three and five year that that stuff? I don’t do that. There’s other people who do that.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:17] Now, can you share a story that maybe somebody has gone through this and has reached a new level or has

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:18:26] I just talked to her before.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:27] You all right? OK.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:18:30] So people have dreams and people have businesses and people see themselves in a way that they really feel they can attain. And so this particular woman wanted to be impact the way women are seen it work and what they can accomplish at work. So she wanted to transform how women were perceived in the world. And I’m a guy and a human being that wants to see people, situations like that expressed because I think it will make a difference on the planet. So, you know, having other leaders be powerful leaders is is what wisdom does. And so today she has opened her fourth location. She has gotten her executive team together. She’s gotten she’s about to do what’s right for her, which is basically get some outside investors and take her model because it’s scalable all the way. She’s ready. She’s ready. Um, and when I first met her, she was afraid she couldn’t do it.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:42] And then together, you helped her do that or you gave her the confidence to do that, like where did your kind of work begin and end?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:19:52] It began with where she was, which was sometimes people need to see that the stories they’ve made up about themselves are just that stories and not new truths and then begin to explore that particular area. Part of wisdom. I must say, which is the part that most attractive to me is the self development, the self awareness, the home. Then, you know, maybe I have something to do with this. So I try to work with people so they can move themselves to being the cause of why things happen the way they have.

Lee Kantor: [00:20:28] So you help them kind of with some of their unconscious biases or are kind of blind spots.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:20:36] That, yes, but that’s not all that’s there to me. There’s a there’s not admitting that certain things have occurred or are occurring that you do not want to the public or expose. I’m sure you’re familiar with Bernie Braylon of vulnerability and authenticity and all that stuff that’s out there right now. Well, a great leader who is wise, doesn’t have anything to hide, doesn’t have anything to gain at that level. So having people be less afraid to be who they are and because they’re very powerful, if they let themselves have, that is really remarkable. Great leaders are you know, you can tell a great leader when he’s up there or she’s up there, there’s just something about them which is unabashedly authentic and powerful. So if you can get that developed in people, which we can, that’s pretty remarkable.

Lee Kantor: [00:21:38] So now there’s more people on this planet than ever before, is the amount of wisdom still there

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:21:47] Is a global problem,

Lee Kantor: [00:21:49] But is the amount of wisdom still is in proportion to the number of people or you think there is less wisdom today than there was when Socrates was around?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:21:59] I think that’s true. I spent time with some Aboriginal tribes and I love that and how the elders are hell. I love how there’s a certain way that they are. And that when you spoke about community, we just warehouse elders. We don’t you know, I’m running into ageism now, which is really interesting because I don’t feel I feel, you know, I don’t even feel my age and. And the Satchel Paige, how old would you be if you didn’t know how old you was, like you might be about 40. And so I have a lot of juice, a lot of gas in the tank. And I’m like, OK. And I see things I want to get done and how I want to get them done and well and why not. But, you know, 50 years in the field teaches you a lot. Wisdom needs experience. The problem with the Internet that you’ve brought up in the beginning of the call, that whole thing is really interesting because you can’t turn that information into experience because it doesn’t generate action. Information without action has no power. Just lays there and gets forgotten. So there’s so when people begin to speak about the difference, the difference is that there are out there that may be not delineated enough for people that’s also with them. Maybe they don’t see. And you need to kind of have you ever looked at it this way? And maybe when they look at it that way, they see things they have not seen before. And actions change. When you see the world differently

Lee Kantor: [00:23:38] Now, do you find this bias against elders maybe in this country? Is it unique to this country or is this happening all over the world?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:23:49] I have been all over the world, although I’ve been to 17 countries, I usually go there for other reasons. So I don’t really know. I know that I work with one. A Native American tribe and help them build a hospice and assisted living center because they wouldn’t permit that on the reservation at that point, I don’t know what it would be like now. So I have spent time with Aboriginals and I’ve also been to South America and I’m just watching the relationship that elders have in the community and how they’re held now. I don’t know if that’s fully possible and I don’t know if it’s decreasing across the world. But take a look at what we do with people here. This is a youth oriented culture. That’s how it kind of works. So wisdom is highly regarded. Not yet, anyway. It will be

Lee Kantor: [00:24:40] Now. Was it was it always that way with wisdom highly regarded among the elders, you know, with the formation of the country?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:24:51] I would say because of my background and history, my first generation. Russian, second generation, Russian, so my and our religious practices at that, my father’s religious practice, his family was to really intellectual ism and honor family and honor people. So I grew up inside of that family system that saw the world that way. So it contributed to my direction to seek wisdom. And then you run into people. For me, it’s people, but it could be books in which all of a sudden things begin to click for you. And that makes sense. I work with one of my teachers, Joseph Campbell, who, if you have time to read this stuff, is about the hero’s journey. And he has a video series out. He said to me, said, if you see your steps clearly on the path, that’s probably the wrong path. So I’ve done many, many, many things, has had several business expressions. But I see things now that other people can’t see something about wisdom. And you can see the beginning, the middle and now a future. If you do that, that’s really going to be stupid. That’s going to cost you. Don’t do that. So wisdom as a kind of perspective to, you know, the future and how you see yourself and see the future. And wisdom has to learn how to communicate that without being righteous about it. So if you go into most companies, people are by command and control and that doesn’t work. If people can’t be accountable, if people don’t want to do it. What are you doing there? What are you doing in terms of your developing yourself as a leader that they’re not able to lead their own selves?

Lee Kantor: [00:26:46] Now, Dr. Cooper, if somebody wants to learn more about your practice and how you’re serving folks and get on your calendar, maybe have a substantive, more substantive conversation about wisdom in their workplace, is there a website they can go you back?

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:27:02] Of course there is. I appreciate the home run the ball at home and written on it. Go to w w w Dr.. But it’s only D-R, Dr. Mark B. Cooper dot com or NBC or Google, and you’ll see me and then you can go that route via the website

Lee Kantor: [00:27:27] D-r Mark, MRC, B Cooper dot com boom. Thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Dr. Marc B Cooper: [00:27:38] We appreciate you letting me do this. Thank you so much. All right.

Lee Kantor: [00:27:42] This is Lee Kantor Will. Next time on Coach the Coach Radio.