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Your Book Is a Business Asset, Not Just Art with Anita Henderson

March 11, 2026 by John Ray

Anita Henderson, The Author's Midwife, on Writing a Book That Builds Authority and Attracts Clients, and Why You Shouldn't Let AI Write It (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 164), with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Your Book Is a Business Asset, Not Just Art with Anita Henderson
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Anita Henderson, The Author's Midwife, on Writing a Book That Builds Authority and Attracts Clients, and Why You Shouldn't Let AI Write It (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 164), with host John Ray

Anita Henderson, The Author’s Midwife, on Writing a Book That Builds Authority and Attracts Clients, and Why You Shouldn’t Let AI Write It (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 164)

Anita Henderson joins host John Ray on The Price and Value Journey podcast to make the business case for something a lot of professional service providers keep putting off: writing their book. Anita founded The Write Image Consulting and she is the creator of the Write Your Life Author Coaching Program, and she’s spent 25 years helping professionals, consultants, coaches, and executives turn their expertise into published books that build credibility and open doors. She also happened to be John’s own book coach for The Generosity Mindset, so this conversation carries the weight of firsthand experience on both sides of the table.

The core argument Anita makes is that a book isn’t really about book sales. The royalties on 200 copies won’t feed the bulldog, as John puts it. The real return comes in how the book enhances your positioning. A well-written, well-produced book makes you an authority in your space, not just another expert. Anita walks through how the book functions as a marketing asset, a client attraction tool, and a platform builder, with a $25 book sale potentially leading to a $250 hourly client, a $2,500 project, or a $25,000 speaking engagement.

Anita and John also get into the practical realities of the writing process itself: why outlining before you write saves you years of false starts, why professionals skip over critical steps in their own process without realizing it, what accountability actually looks like when the deadline pressure hits, and why using AI to write your book creates legal and platform risks you may not have considered. Anita also names who should not write a book right now and what the honest first step looks like for those who are ready.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use From This Episode

  • A book’s business value has almost nothing to do with royalties. By positioning it as a client attraction tool and an authority builder, the $25 book sale can pave the way for much larger engagements.
  • “Author” is the root word of “authority.” A book signals that you’ve worked on organizing and documenting your expertise in a way a podcast episode or LinkedIn post simply cannot replicate.
  • Start with an outline and treat your book like a product. Knowing who you’re writing for and what transformation you’re guiding them through before you write a single chapter prevents years of false starts.
  • Experts routinely skip over steps in their process because they’ve been doing it so long they don’t see the gaps. Fresh eyes from a coach or editor catch what you can’t see in your own work.
  • Using AI to write your book isn’t just a creative shortcut; it creates real risk. Amazon and literary contests now require disclosure of AI-generated content, and platform consequences can follow, such as disqualification from contests or removal of listings from the platform if the disclosure is not made.
  • Not everyone should write a book right now. If you’re still developing your methodology or have no plan to use the book as a business tool, Anita’s honest advice is to wait until you do.

Anita Henderson, The Write Image Consulting, LLC

Anita Henderson is the CEO and Founder of The Write Image Consulting, LLC, and the creator of the Write Your Life Author Coaching Program. Known widely as The Author’s Midwife, she is a book publishing strategist and storyteller at heart who helps C-suite executives and entrepreneurs create books that inspire, inform, and transform audiences. Her approach as an author coach is equal parts therapist, honest critic, and kick-in-the-pants accountability partner. Helping leaders create books that impact their industry and boost their credibility requires this approach.

Anita has spent 25 years helping professionals, consultants, coaches, and executives transform their expertise into published books, with results that include multiple award-winning and bestselling titles. Her clients come away with more than a finished manuscript. They gain greater visibility, a stronger speaker platform, and deeper credibility in their industries.

An eight-time published author herself, Anita Henderson brings a distinctive combination of big-picture strategic thinking and unrelenting attention to detail to every project. Her background spans corporate marketing, communications, and PR, and she has also worked as a freelance writer, ghostwriter, podcast host, and keynote speaker. She co-founded Write Books That Sell Now, LLC, an online learning platform for aspiring and published authors, and she is the creator of the Book Your Success author program.

Anita’s philosophy, that it’s bigger than the book, reflects her conviction that a well-written, well-produced book is not a destination. It’s a leverage tool for the brand, speaking opportunities, and other revenue streams an author wants to build.

Connect with Anita Henderson: Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: Accountability Coaching, AI and book writing, Anita Henderson, Author Coaching, authority building, book coach, book marketing, book outline, book publishing, book writing process, business books, coaches, consultants, expert positioning, ghostwriting, John Ray, nonfiction writing, professional development, professional services, publishing strategy, The Author's Midwife, The Generosity Mindset, The Price and Value Journey, The Write Image, The Write Image Consulting, thought leadership, Write Your Life Author Coaching Program

Leroy Hite: How Premium Pricing Built an Exit-Ready Brand

March 4, 2026 by John Ray

Leroy Hite Founded the World's First Luxury Firewood Company. Here's How Premium Pricing Shaped the Brand, the Customer Experience, and the Exit. (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 163) with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Leroy Hite: How Premium Pricing Built an Exit-Ready Brand
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Leroy Hite Founded the World's First Luxury Firewood Company. Here's How Premium Pricing Shaped the Brand, the Customer Experience, and the Exit. (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 163) with host John Ray

Leroy Hite Founded the World’s First Luxury Firewood Company. Here’s How Premium Pricing Shaped the Brand, the Customer Experience, and the Exit. (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 163)

Leroy Hite joins host John Ray on The Price and Value Journey to share one of the most counterintuitive pricing stories you’ll hear. Leroy founded Cutting Edge Firewood in 2013 with one truck and maxed-out credit cards, took a commodity that most people thought was worth nothing, and turned it into a premium brand serving more than 30,000 customers nationwide. In August 2024, he sold the company to a family office in Atlanta. The unifying theme throughout all this was pricing. Pricing was not an afterthought but a deliberate tool that shaped everything.

Leroy walks through the evolution of his pricing strategy, from the early days of raising prices when he was about to run out of inventory and watching demand remain steady, to doubling his price while cutting quantity in half and finding his customers happier than before. He talks about what he learned from the “cherry firewood math”: selling a fraction of the volume at double the price and coming out ahead. He also explains why most businesses are losing money by resorting to discounts, which simultaneously undermine brand value and margins.

For professional service providers, the lessons here go beyond firewood. Leroy explains why low prices send a confusing signal to buyers, how adding value through small details like a handwritten card, a personalized delivery note, or a proactive apology generates more loyalty than a discount ever will, and why premium pricing ultimately shaped the exit multiple he realized when he sold. If you’ve ever wondered whether your price is holding your business back, this episode will change how you think about that question.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Price is a quality signal. When your price is too low relative to your branding and positioning, you’re telling conflicting stories, and confused buyers don’t convert.
  • Raising prices can increase demand. Leroy repeatedly raised prices when inventory was tight and watched demand hold or grow, including gaining a customer who found Cutting Edge specifically because someone said they were too expensive.
  • Discounting is a brand-destroying cycle. A 20% discount on 50% margins costs you 40% of your profit, and once customers expect sales, they wait for the next one, making the damage worse over time.
  • Adding value beats refunding money. When mistakes happened, Leroy sent premium product with a handwritten apology rather than offering a discount. Customers ended up happier, and the lifetime value of those relationships went up.
  • Higher margins give you competitive power. Better margins mean you can outspend competitors on customer acquisition and still be profitable, a structural advantage most small businesses don’t recognize they’re giving up when they underprice.
  • Premium pricing shaped the exit. Higher margins meant higher EBITDA, and a differentiated premium brand attracted a buyer. Leroy’s eleven-year pricing decisions directly contributed to the value he realized upon sale.

Leroy Hite, Founder, Cutting Edge Firewood

Leroy Hite, Founder, Cutting Edge Firewood
Leroy Hite, Founder, Cutting Edge Firewood

Leroy Hite founded Cutting Edge Firewood, the world’s first luxury firewood company, in 2013. He built the business from a single truck in 2013, financing it with $250,000 in credit card debt, and over the next decade turned what most people considered a low-level commodity into a premium brand that national media couldn’t ignore. His firewood burned in the White House Oval Office during two presidencies, and the company earned coverage in Fortune, Southern Living, Food & Wine, Robb Report, and Garden & Gun, along with features on the Today Show, Netflix, Fox & Friends, and Hulu. Hundreds of imitators followed.

In 2024, Leroy successfully exited Cutting Edge Firewood after eleven years of building the category he created. That same year he received the Berry College Distinguished Alumni Award for Entrepreneurial Spirit and delivered a keynote at Clemson University’s Launchpad program.

Leroy is now a keynote speaker and fireside chat host for colleges, universities, and business groups, sharing the frameworks behind category creation, luxury positioning, and building a company with the exit in mind from day one. He co-hosted a fireside chat with Horst Schulze, co-founder and former president of the Ritz-Carlton. His speaking topics include brand building, customer experience, resilience, and the mindset shift from competing in a market to creating one.

Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: Atlanta Business, brand building, business exit, category creation, customer experience, customer retention, Cutting Edge Firewood, discounting, ebitda, Entrepreneurship, Founder Story, John Ray, Leroy Hite, luxury brand, luxury firewood, premium pricing, pricing strategy, small business, The Price and Value Journey, value creation

Lee Ellis: Beating Insecurity to Lead and Price with Confidence

February 25, 2026 by John Ray

Retired Air Force Colonel and Vietnam War POW Lee Ellis on How Insecurity Undermines Your Leadership and Your Professional Services Practice (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 162) with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Lee Ellis: Beating Insecurity to Lead and Price with Confidence
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Retired Air Force Colonel and Vietnam War POW Lee Ellis on How Insecurity Undermines Your Leadership and Your Professional Services Practice (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 162) with host John Ray

Retired Air Force Colonel and Vietnam War POW Lee Ellis on How Insecurity Undermines Your Leadership and Your Professional Services Practice (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 162)

Insecurity doesn’t announce itself. It appears as overtalking in a client meeting, avoiding pricing discussions, and presenting your credentials instead of listening to the client’s actual needs. Lee Ellis, a retired Air Force colonel and Vietnam War POW, has dedicated decades as an author and leadership consultant to studying why capable individuals undermine themselves, and his framework identifies the underlying causes.

In this second appearance on The Price and Value Journey, he and host John Ray explore what insecurity really is, how it shows up in leaders and practitioners, and what it costs, both in the organizations they lead and in the practices they’ve built.

Lee’s Security Continuum model shows that no one is simply secure or insecure; everyone slides between the two, and the triggers that push capable people toward the insecure end are more common than most will admit. Fear of embarrassment, the need to look strong, and the refusal to acknowledge what you don’t know: these are the same forces that make a consultant overtalk their qualifications, underprice to avoid rejection, or back down from a conversation where their value needs to be clearly stated. Lee didn’t set out to teach a class on professional service pricing, but the framework he’s built from a lifetime of leading under pressure maps directly onto the challenges you face every day in your own practice.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Insecurity is not a fixed trait. It’s a position on a continuum. Everyone slides between secure and insecure depending on circumstances. The goal isn’t to eliminate insecurity but to recognize when you’ve drifted and know how to move back.
  • Insecurity shows up in two very different ways: dominating and withdrawing. Some people mask doubt by taking over: overtalking, over-performing, and pushing. Others pull back into silence or avoidance. Both patterns cost you in client relationships and business development conversations.
  • The same dynamics that undermine leaders undermine your practice. Fear of embarrassment, performing strength you don’t feel, and avoiding honest conversations show up in pricing discussions, client meetings, and moments where your value needs to be clearly stated.
  • Humility is an outcome of security, not a substitute for confidence. You can’t manufacture humility by dialing back confidence. Security is what makes it safe to say you don’t know something, own a mistake, and still hold your ground.
  • Adapting to who you’re talking to is a discipline, not a personality trait. Lee’s Platinum Rule, “Do unto others as they would like to be done unto,” requires reading your client or prospect quickly and adjusting. Some people want facts and brevity. Others need a deeper relationship before they’ll trust you. Getting that wrong costs you.
  • Daily reflection compounds confidence over time. Lee critiques his own performance after meetings and conversations the same way fighter pilots debrief after missions: what went well, what didn’t, and what to do differently. That habit is available to anyone.

Lee Ellis, Colonel USAF (Ret), Leading with Honor®

Lee Ellis, Colonel USAF (Ret), Leading with Honor®
Lee Ellis, Colonel USAF (Ret), Leading with Honor®

Lee Ellis is Founder and President of Leading with Honor® and FreedomStar Media®. He is an award-winning author, leadership coach, and expert speaker in the areas of leadership, team building, and human performance. His past clients include Fortune 500 senior executives and C-level leaders in telecommunications, healthcare, the military, and other business sectors. Some of his media appearances include interviews on networks such as CNN, CBS This Morning, C-SPAN, ABC World News, and Fox News Channel, plus hundreds of engagements in various industry sectors throughout the world.

Early in his career, Lee served as an Air Force fighter pilot, flying fifty-three combat missions over North Vietnam. In 1967, he was shot down and held as a POW for more than five years in Hanoi and surrounding camps. For his wartime service, he was awarded two Silver Stars, the Legion of Merit, the Bronze Star with Valor device, the Purple Heart, and the POW Medal. Lee resumed his Air Force career, serving in leadership roles with increasing responsibilities, including command of a flying squadron and leadership development organizations, before retiring as a colonel.

Lee has a BA in History and an MS in Counseling and Human Development. He is a graduate of the Armed Forces Staff College and the Air War College. He has authored or co-authored seven books on leadership and career development. His latest bestselling book is entitled Captured by Love: Inspiring True Romance Stories from Vietnam POWs. Two additional, award-winning books share leadership insights gained from his POW experience. Leading with Honor: Leadership Lessons from the Hanoi Hilton won book-of-the-year awards and was selected in 2013 for the USAF Chief of Staff Professional Reading List. His follow-on book, Engage with Honor: Building a Culture of Courageous Accountability, was selected as best in class for the “Leadership” category. 

In 2014, Lee was inducted into the Georgia Military Veterans Hall of Fame, and in 2015, he was a DAR Medal of Honor recipient for a lifetime of patriotic service as a military officer and spokesman for leading with honor. 

Lee and his wife, Mary, reside in the Atlanta, GA, area and have four grown children and six grandchildren.

Website | Lee on LinkedIn | Leading with Honor: LinkedIn | Instagram

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: accountability, Captured by Love, coaches, confidence, consultants, core identity, Courage, executive coaching, Hanoi Hilton, humility, imposter syndrome, John Ray, leadership development, leadership insecurity, Leading With Honor, Lee Ellis, Platinum Rule, pricing confidence, professional service providers, professional services, reflection, security continuum, self doubt, solo practitioners, The Price and Value Journey, value articulation, Vietnam War POW

Bob Littell on NetWeaving for Referrals and Real Relationships

February 18, 2026 by John Ray

Bob Littell, Creator of NetWeaving, on Building the Relationships That Grow Your Practice (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 161), with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Bob Littell on NetWeaving for Referrals and Real Relationships
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Bob Littell, Creator of NetWeaving, on Building the Relationships That Grow Your Practice (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 161), with host John Ray

Bob Littell, Creator of NetWeaving, on Building the Relationships That Grow Your Practice (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 161)

If your networking efforts feel hollow or one-sided, this episode reframes the whole game. Bob Littell, creator of NetWeaving and author of The Heart and the Art of NetWeaving, joins host John Ray to explain why leading with genuine service, rather than a thinly veiled pitch, builds the kind of relationships that actually generate business. For professional service providers who feel stuck doing traditional networking and wonder why it’s not working, Bob’s framework offers a practical and principled alternative.

Bob lays out the three core skills of NetWeaving: connecting others with their needs in mind, positioning yourself as a resource people know they can call on, and building a trusted referral network over time. He also shares a fourth, often overlooked reason NetWeaving fails: the person doing it simply isn’t yet as referable as they think. From follow-up discipline to the way you present yourself online, Bob walks through how professionals inadvertently undermine their own word-of-mouth.

The conversation also covers Bob’s “GLP” questioning framework, which moves conversations from global to local to personal for moving beyond small talk at networking events; how to host a connection meeting so it actually energizes both parties; and what Adam Grant’s research on givers, takers, and matchers means for how strategic you need to be in today’s business climate. If you’ve been giving without seeing much return, this episode will help you figure out exactly why and what to change.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • NetWeaving is not a replacement for traditional networking. You need both, but NetWeaving asks you to lead with the other person’s needs, not your own agenda disguised as generosity.
  • The three pillars of NetWeaving are connecting others without keeping score, positioning yourself as a known and accessible resource, and building a trusted referral network you’ve personally vetted.
  • If NetWeaving isn’t producing results, run through the three diagnostic questions: Are you connecting givers or inadvertently serving takers? Is your assistance truly unrestricted, or does it contain a subtle request? Are you following up to make sure you get credit for the connections you make?
  • Being referable is something you have to work at. Your website, your social media presence, and the way you communicate all signal to potential referral partners whether they can confidently send someone your way.
  • Asking better questions is a teachable skill. Bob’s GLP framework, moving from global industry challenges to local company issues to personal focus areas, helps you listen strategically and identify where you can genuinely help.
  • Hosting a connection meeting well means doing your homework on both parties beforehand, sharing bios so neither person shows up cold, and framing the introduction with specific reasons why you think it’s a worthwhile meeting.

Robert S. Littell, Chief NetWeaver

Bob Littell is the creator of NetWeaving and the founder of NetWeaving International, known globally as the Chief NetWeaver. Over a 50-year career in the insurance and financial services industry, he served as Chief Marketing Officer for two insurance companies, ran his own national insurance brokerage agency, and built an independent consulting practice that included expert witness work and writing for publications including the Wall Street Journal, Kiplinger’s, and the Atlanta Business Chronicle.

In 1999, Bob created the word and concept of NetWeaving, a Golden Rule and Pay It Forward approach to building trusted business relationships. With the blessing of Catherine Ryan Hyde, author of the book on which the Pay It Forward movie was based, NetWeaving is now recognized worldwide as the business version of Pay It Forward. He has authored three books on the concept: Power NetWeaving, The Heart and Art of NetWeaving, and Raising Your R&R Factor.

His work has drawn endorsements from Jeffrey Gitomer, Bob Burg, Daniel Pink, and Arthur Blank, co-founder of Home Depot and owner of the Atlanta Falcons.
Bob’s NetWeavers Inspire platform at netweaversinspire.com offers free access to both books, a NetWeaver Aptitude Assessment, a NetWeaver Diplomat certification course, and more than 50 business book summaries, all at no charge.

Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: abundance mindset, Adam Grant, atlanta, bob littell, Business Development, coaches, connection meetings, consultants, Give and Take, givers and takers, John Ray, netweaving, NetWeaving International, networking strategy, pay it forward, professional service providers, professional services, Raising Your R&R Factor, referability, referral marketing, relationship building, solo practitioners, The Heart and the Art of NetWeaving, The Price and Value Journey, trusted resource network

Paul Knowlton: Bad Theology Kills Your Pricing

February 11, 2026 by John Ray

Paul Knowlton on Bad Theology, Plantation Economics You Practice on Yourself, and Why Mars Built a Trillion-Dollar Legacy on Mutuality (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 159), with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Paul Knowlton: Bad Theology Kills Your Pricing
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Paul Knowlton on Bad Theology, Plantation Economics You Practice on Yourself, and Why Mars Built a Trillion-Dollar Legacy on Mutuality (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 159), with host John Ray

Paul Knowlton on Bad Theology, Plantation Economics You Practice on Yourself, and How Mars Built a Trillion-Dollar Legacy on Mutuality (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 160)

In Part 2 of a two-part conversation, Paul Knowlton, attorney and partner at Stanton Law in Atlanta and co-author of Better Capitalism: Jesus, Adam Smith, Ayn Rand, and MLK Jr. on Moving from Plantation to Partnership Economics, joins host John Ray on The Price and Value Journey podcast to explore the mindsets that kill sustainable pricing and what you can do about it.

Paul saw a tattoo on a pastor friend’s bicep that read “bad theology kills.” That phrase captures why so many professionals severely underprice themselves. Whether from explicit religious backgrounds, leftist political thinking, or just generational poverty stories, we carry beliefs that profit is evil, poverty is noble, and loving your neighbor means sacrificing yourself. Paul shares his painful story of starting a low bono law firm after selling his intellectual property boutique firm. He had to shut it down when his patient wife finally said they literally couldn’t afford his generosity. The lesson is that you cannot afford to be generous if you don’t have the resources to be generous.

This conversation covers the Mars candy company (family wealth of $1.7 trillion built on mutuality since the early 1900s), why practicing plantation economics on yourself means extracting your own time by not charging or not charging enough, the Rotary Four-Way Test Herbert J. Taylor created during the Great Depression to save a company from bankruptcy, and how to stay committed to mutual benefit when bad actors seem to be winning. Paul and John discuss firing bad clients, finding your herd of like-minded professionals, and why the economic system should serve humans rather than humans serving the economic system.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Bad theology kills your pricing. Whether from religious background, political thinking, or generational poverty stories, many professionals believe profit is evil, poverty is noble, and loving your neighbor means only loving your neighbor. These beliefs lead to severe underpricing and unsustainable practices.
  • You cannot afford to be generous if you don’t have the resources to be generous. Paul started a low bono law firm after selling his intellectual property boutique. His wife finally told him they literally couldn’t afford it and were heading toward bankruptcy. If you don’t engage your brain, your heart will lead you down the wrong path.
  • Practicing plantation economics on yourself means extracting your own time by not charging or not charging enough for your services. Paul caught himself waving off payment from a client who stopped by with quick questions. The client insisted on paying because he needed someone with 20 or 30 years of skills to give him the fast answer.
  • Mars candy company built $117 billion in family wealth on mutuality since the early 1900s. Their stated contract principle: they will not have contracts that are detrimental to the other party. Mars chocolates are not the cheapest option available, but consumers are willing to pay a higher price due to the perceived value and their comfort with the company.
  • The Rotary Four-Way Test saved a company from bankruptcy during the Great Depression. Herbert J. Taylor wrote it as a way of doing business: Is it the truth? Is it fair? Will it build goodwill? Will it be beneficial to all concerned? This was the ethical framework that people adhered to before Milton Friedman’s 1970 article on shareholder value changed the business landscape.
  • Bad actors get the headlines for a while but don’t last long-term. Your reputation is your most valuable asset. If you can be trusted in your work, your word-of-mouth reputation will feed your client base. It’s the long game, the marathon, not the sprint that matters.

Topics Discussed in this Episode

00:00 Introduction and Recap of Part One
01:10 Exploring Mutual Benefit in Professional Services
04:16 The Impact of Bad Theology on Pricing
05:12 Better Capitalism: Bridging Anti-Capitalism and Dog-Eat-Dog Capitalism
11:55 Mars Inc.: A Case Study in Mutuality
17:25 Practicing Plantation Economics on Yourself
24:26 The Importance of Community and Ethical Business Practices
32:33 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Paul Knowlton

Paul Knowlton
Paul Knowlton

Paul Knowlton, JD, MDiv, is a pioneering Atlanta attorney, ethicist, and co-founder of the Institute for Better Capitalism, where he champions “partnership economics” as an antidote to exploitative “plantation economics.” Holding a JD from Georgia State University and an MDiv from Mercer University, he transitioned from forensic engineering at Georgia-Pacific to IP law, building a robust practice at firms like Kilpatrick Stockton, co-founding another serving Fortune 500 clients, and teaching as an adjunct professor. This foundation in business law informs his holistic critique of capitalism, blending legal acumen with theological insight to advocate for profitable, ethical systems.

Knowlton’s landmark 2021 book Better Capitalism: Jesus, Adam Smith, Ayn Rand, and MLK Jr. on Moving from Plantation to Partnership Economics, co-authored with Aaron Hedges, reinterprets economic giants to propose reforms in finance, corporations, government, and culture. Endorsed by figures like Walter Brueggemann and David Gushee for its data-driven, values-rich challenge to extremes like laissez-faire absolutism or socialism, the work has sparked dialogue via Cato Institute reviews and Amazon bestseller status. His legal background enables practical proposals, such as relieving sectors for mutual flourishing and making abstract ethics actionable for executives and policymakers.

Today, as Partner Emeritus at Stanton Law LLC, Knowlton integrates his capitalism vision into IP, business succession, nonprofit law, and coaching, while advancing the Institute’s mission through resources, testimonials, and calls for imagination and courage. His efforts—praised for originality by economists and theologians—aim to humanize markets, fostering common good without sacrificing innovation, as seen in his Ubercounsel practice and Georgia Bar wellness initiatives. This balanced legacy positions him as a unique voice at the nexus of law, faith, and economics.

Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: Adam Smith, Atlanta attorney, attorney wellbeing, bad theology, Better Capitalism, business ethics, capitalism reform, client relationships, extractive economics, generosity mindset, generous pricing, Herbert J. Taylor, Institute for Better Capitalism, John Ray, low bono law firm, Mars Candy, Milton Friedman, mutual benefit, partnership economics, Paul Knowlton, plantation economics, pricing mindset, pricing psychology, professional service providers, professional services pricing, Rotary Four-Way Test, shareholder value, stanton law, Sustainable Business, The Price and Value Journey, underpricing, value based pricing

Paul Knowlton on What Adam Smith Actually Said About Greed

February 4, 2026 by John Ray

Paul Knowlton on How Misreading Adam Smith Broke Capitalism, Why the "Invisible Hand" Never Meant What You Think, and Whether Generosity Actually Works in Business (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 159), with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Paul Knowlton on What Adam Smith Actually Said About Greed
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Paul Knowlton on How Misreading Adam Smith Broke Capitalism, Why the "Invisible Hand" Never Meant What You Think, and Whether Generosity Actually Works in Business (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 159), with host John Ray

Paul Knowlton on How Misreading Adam Smith Broke Capitalism, Why the “Invisible Hand” Never Meant What You Think, and Whether Generosity Actually Works in Business (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 159)

In part one of a two-part conversation, Paul Knowlton, patent attorney and co-author of Better Capitalism: Jesus, Adam Smith, Ayn Rand, and MLK Jr. on Moving from Plantation to Partnership Economics, joins host John Ray on The Price and Value Journey to discuss why 50 years of misreading Adam Smith has broken capitalism and left professionals wondering whether an “others first” mentality actually works anymore.

Paul’s framework addresses something bigger than pricing strategy. It’s about the ethics that govern our entire economic system. Since Milton Friedman declared in 1970 that the only social responsibility of business is to maximize profits, we’ve operated under an extraction-based model that rewards dishonesty, celebrates greed as somehow serving the greater good through market forces, and has made generous professionals question whether their values are just naive. Paul traces this error back to a fundamental misreading of Adam Smith. The “invisible hand” appears exactly once in the 1,000-page Wealth of Nations, and it doesn’t mean selfishness becomes social good through market magic. The actual framework Adam Smith presents in The Theory of Moral Sentiments requires an “impartial spectator” evaluating whether both parties have both their own self-interest AND each other’s self-interest at heart. That’s mutual benefit, not extraction.

This conversation gives you a different lens. Paul explains plantation versus partnership economics, his two-part test (“Do I have my self-interest at heart and do I have your self-interest at heart?”), why chronic underpricing is plantation economics you practice on yourself, his landscaping contractor story showing partnership economics in action, and what his law firm is doing to restructure around sustainability and fulfillment instead of just maximizing profit. If you’ve been immersed in extraction-based thinking for so long that you don’t realize there is an alternative, or if you’re weary of observing dishonest individuals succeed while you question whether generosity is merely foolishness, this episode provides a framework that is both ethical and sustainable.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Underpricing removes good actors from the marketplace. When you price unsustainably low, you eventually burn out and exit the profession. That’s not generosity. That’s self-imposed plantation economics.
  • Use Paul’s two-part test: “Do I have my self-interest at heart and do I have your self-interest at heart?” You need mutual benefit. If both parties don’t have both their own AND each other’s self-interest at heart, reconsider the arrangement.
  • Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” appears exactly once in the 1,000-page The Wealth of Nations. It doesn’t mean selfishness magically becomes social good. It means pursuing self-interest while considering how your actions appear to an impartial spectator.
  • The impartial spectator asks whether both parties have both their own self-interest AND each other’s self-interest at heart. Adam Smith’s actual framework from The Theory of Moral Sentiments requires mutual benefit, not just individual gain justified by market forces.
  • Partnership economics in action: Paul’s landscaping contractor gave him a price. Paul said, “I am not trying to negotiate your price. I anticipate that you are an exceptional professional who will not compromise on quality. The result? The outcome is exceptional work that doesn’t require Paul to fret po exert much effort.
  • Stanton Law’s mission: “Build a profitable and sustainable firm so that each of us can pursue a fulfilling and satisfying life.” Both parts matter. If the business isn’t sustainable, nobody will be fulfilled. If it’s only about sustainability without fulfillment, what’s the point?

Topics Discussed in this Episode

00:00 Introduction and Overview
00:25 The Generosity Mindset vs. Economic Exploitation
02:56 Introducing Paul Knowlton and His Framework
03:32 The Plantation System in Law Firms
09:44 Defining Plantation Economics
15:46 Partnership Economics Explained
17:29 Adam Smith and the Misinterpretation of His Work
32:57 Applying Ethical Business Practices
38:54 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two

Paul Knowlton

Paul Knowlton
Paul Knowlton

Paul Knowlton, JD, MDiv, is a pioneering Atlanta attorney, ethicist, and co-founder of the Institute for Better Capitalism, where he champions “partnership economics” as an antidote to exploitative “plantation economics.” Holding a JD from Georgia State University and an MDiv from Mercer University, he transitioned from forensic engineering at Georgia-Pacific to IP law, building a robust practice at firms like Kilpatrick Stockton, co-founding another serving Fortune 500 clients, and teaching as an adjunct professor. This foundation in business law informs his holistic critique of capitalism, blending legal acumen with theological insight to advocate for profitable, ethical systems.

Knowlton’s landmark 2021 book Better Capitalism: Jesus, Adam Smith, Ayn Rand, and MLK Jr. on Moving from Plantation to Partnership Economics, co-authored with Aaron Hedges, reinterprets economic giants to propose reforms in finance, corporations, government, and culture. Endorsed by figures like Walter Brueggemann and David Gushee for its data-driven, values-rich challenge to extremes like laissez-faire absolutism or socialism, the work has sparked dialogue via Cato Institute reviews and Amazon bestseller status. His legal background enables practical proposals, such as relieving sectors for mutual flourishing and making abstract ethics actionable for executives and policymakers.

Today, as Partner Emeritus at Stanton Law LLC, Knowlton integrates his capitalism vision into IP, business succession, nonprofit law, and coaching, while advancing the Institute’s mission through resources, testimonials, and calls for imagination and courage. His efforts—praised for originality by economists and theologians—aim to humanize markets, fostering common good without sacrificing innovation, as seen in his Ubercounsel practice and Georgia Bar wellness initiatives. This balanced legacy positions him as a unique voice at the nexus of law, faith, and economics.

Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: Adam Smith, Atlanta attorney, attorney wellbeing, Better Capitalism, business sustainability, coach pricing, consultant pricing, ethical pricing, extraction economics, impartial spectator, Institute for Better Capitalism, invisible hand, John Ray, legal services, maximize shareholder value, Milton Friedman, mutual benefit, mutual benefit business model, partnership economics, Paul Knowlton, plantation economics, pricing strategy, professional services pricing, service provider pricing, stanton law, sustainable business practices, sustainable pricing, The Generosity Mindset, The Price and Value Journey, The Theory of Moral Sentiments, The Wealth of Nations, underpricing, value based pricing

Diana Murphy on Navigating Deep Impact Experiences as a Leader

January 28, 2026 by John Ray

How High-Capacity Leaders Can Navigate Deep Impact Experiences Without Their Business Falling Apart: Diana Murphy on Moving Beyond the "Push Through" Culture (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 158), with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Diana Murphy on Navigating Deep Impact Experiences as a Leader
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How High-Capacity Leaders Can Navigate Deep Impact Experiences Without Their Business Falling Apart: Diana Murphy on Moving Beyond the "Push Through" Culture (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 158), with host John Ray

How High-Capacity Leaders Can Navigate Deep Impact Experiences Without Their Business Falling Apart: Diana Murphy on Moving Beyond the “Push Through” Culture (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 158)

Diana Murphy, a certified life coach who works with high-capacity leaders, joins host John Ray on The Price and Value Journey to discuss navigating deep impact experiences. These are the moments that shake your sense of who you are—divorce, illness, losing someone you love, but also changes that are supposed to be good news like retiring, selling your business, or leaving corporate to start your practice.

Diana explains why these experiences create disorientation rather than just stress, what happens when high-capacity people hit their tipping point, and why the “push through” culture most leaders have been rewarded for is exactly the wrong approach. The first steps involve honoring the gravity of your experiences, recognizing when you need outside support, and understanding why investing time in emotional work yields significant clarity and groundedness.

Diana also explains why service professionals whose expertise is mental need this work most, how disruption affects your ability to serve clients, and why the advisors who take the best care of themselves grow the best businesses. This episode will help you recognize when you or someone on your team needs support and see why slowing down to process emotions actually leads to better business decisions.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Deep impact experiences create disorientation, not just stress. When high-capacity leaders hit their tipping point, they wake up every day and things aren’t like they’ve been.
  • The “push through” culture fails during deep impact experiences. Grief, despair, and deep sadness can’t be pushed through without consequences like burnout or shutdown.
  • Even good changes create identity shifts. Even though you choose to retire, sell your business, or leave corporate, these changes often bring unexpected grief and disorientation.
  • Honor the gravity of your situation instead of rushing to feel better. You don’t need positive emotions to make good decisions.
  • Get resources when you’re overwhelmed. High-capacity people often wait too long because they think they should handle it themselves.
  • The investment of time in emotional work multiplies your clarity. When you process and stay grounded in your values, every decision you make has a longer-range impact.
  • Service professionals, whose expertise lives in their heads, need this work most. When you’re disrupted emotionally, your ability to serve clients suffers.

Topics Discussed in this Episode

00:00 Introduction
01:02 Meet Diana Murphy: Life Coach for High-Capacity Professionals
01:59 Understanding Deep Impact Experiences
04:34 Disorientation vs. Stress
06:09 Patterns in Deep Impact Situations
10:01 Identity Shifts in Positive Changes
17:19 Cultural Challenges in Honoring Grief
20:26 Supporting Others Through Deep Impact Experiences
22:04 The Power of Presence in Supportive Relationships
24:03 Personal Growth Through Coaching and Self-Care
24:50 Understanding the ‘Both-And’ Experience
28:44 Processing Emotions for Personal and Professional Growth
31:38 Honoring the Gravity of Life’s Challenges
34:34 Balancing Excitement and Grief in New Ventures
37:43 Practical Steps for Business Owners in Crisis
42:01 The Importance of Self-Care for Service Professionals
44:53 Conclusion and Contact Information

Diana Murphy, Diana Murphy Coaching

Diana Murphy
Diana Murphy

Diana Murphy is a life and mindset coach for CEOs and high-impact leaders who want to lead with integrity and heart while reclaiming their well-being and relationships. Through her firm, Diana Murphy Coaching, she helps clients move from overwhelm and constant firefighting into grounded, intentional, and strategic leadership, with a focus on honoring their own needs rather than self-sacrifice.

​Drawing on her certified training with The Life Coach School and equity-centered coaching foundations, Diana guides leaders through major personal and professional transitions, helping them build emotionally resilient, values-driven lives and businesses. Her work centers on developing self-awareness without self-judgment, navigating emotions, making intentional decisions, and creating sustainable rhythms between work and life.

​Based in the Atlanta area, Diana supports clients through private coaching, live events, and The Leader’s Table podcast, where she hosts powerful conversations for leaders who are learning that success does not have to come at the cost of their health or closest relationships.

Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: business disruption, business flourishing, deep impact experiences, diana murphy, diana murphy coaching, disorientation, divorce, emotional mastery, emotional wellbeing, emotional work, empty nesting, expert advisors, getting resourced, grief, high-capacity leaders, identity shifts, John Ray, leaving corporate, Life Coaching, push through culture, retirement transitions, selling a business, service professionals, The Price and Value Journey

Etinosa Agbonlahor on Why Smart Pricing Starts with Psychology

January 21, 2026 by John Ray

Etinosa Agbonlahor on Why Smart Pricing Starts with Psychology, on The Price and Value Journey podcast with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Etinosa Agbonlahor on Why Smart Pricing Starts with Psychology
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Etinosa Agbonlahor on Why Smart Pricing Starts with Psychology, on The Price and Value Journey podcast with host John Ray

Etinosa Agbonlahor on the Behavioral Economics of Pricing: Why Service Providers Underprice, How Money Scripts Control Your Fees, and the Psychology Behind Premium Pricing That Converts (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 157)

Service providers avoid pricing conversations for the same psychological reasons consumers avoid checking their bank balances. Etinosa Agbonlahor spent a decade as Director of Behavioral Research at Fidelity Investments studying financial avoidance, and now she applies those insights to help consultants, coaches, and professional service providers fix their pricing.

In this conversation with host John Ray, Etinosa reveals the three main reasons service providers underprice: lack of confidence in their value, the dangerous habit of anchoring to competitor pricing, and the fear that clients are scrutinizing every price change. She shares research showing that customers can’t even remember what they paid for items they just bought, yet service providers operate as if clients are tracking every dollar. Etinosa explains how premium pricing can actually attract better clients, why doing nothing with your pricing has real costs, and how to use pricing as a steering wheel rather than just a revenue engine. She also provides practical first steps for service providers stuck in the knowledge-action gap around pricing.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Your confidence level shows up directly in your pricing as a business owner, whether you want it to or not.
  • Copying competitor pricing is dangerous because you don’t know if your competitors are leaving money on the table, if their pricing is right, or if they deliver the same value you do.
  • Most customers aren’t as price-sensitive as you fear. Research shows more than half of shoppers couldn’t remember the cost of items they had just put in their cart.
  • Premium pricing can attract better clients who associate higher prices with higher quality. Some prospects won’t work with you because low prices signal you won’t deliver the value they need.
  • The cost of pricing inertia compounds over years. Doing nothing costs you clients who thought your prices were too low, growth opportunities, higher margins, and time you could have taken off.
  • Use pricing as a steering wheel, not just a revenue engine. Design your prices to influence how customers choose, what packages you offer, and how you position yourself against competition.
  • Talk to your customers about what they value in working with you, including the softer things like responsiveness and friendliness, then crystallize those value conversations into pricing decisions.

Topics Discussed in this Episode

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:29 Understanding Behavioral Economics
02:47 Psychology of Pricing
04:24 Common Pricing Mistakes
10:21 Money Scripts and Their Impact
18:54 Unlearning Money Scripts
20:59 Scarcity Mindset and Environmental Influence
23:43 Self-Reflection for Business Growth
24:17 Understanding Regret Aversion in Pricing
26:04 The Ostrich Effect and Business Margins
28:29 Positive Reinforcement vs. Shame in Pricing
30:43 The Psychology of Discounted Pricing
34:10 Behavioral Pricing Tactics
36:39 The Journey of Pricing Strategy
38:14 Bridging the Knowledge-Action Gap
42:11 Counterintuitive Insights in Behavioral Economics
44:13 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Etinosa Agbonlahor

Etinosa Agbonlahor, CEO, Decision Alpha
Etinosa Agbonlahor, CEO, Decision Alpha

Etinosa Agbonlahor is a behavioral economist and CEO of Decision Alpha, a behavioral pricing firm that helps businesses improve pricing for growth, traction, and stronger perceived value.

Passionate about helping people live healthier financial lives, she brings over a decade of experience working across the U.S., Australia, Africa, and the U.K.—shaping pricing, engagement, and customer behavior strategy for global financial institutions and venture-backed startups.

MarketWatch, Morningstar, and other leading platforms have featured her work, highlighting her focus on how behavior drives financial outcomes.

Etinosa is the author of How to Talk to Your Parents About Money, a guide to navigating complex financial conversations.

Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you provide to clients, which allows you to price your services more effectively in order to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

 

Tagged With: behavioral economics, behavioral finance, behavioral research, business pricing, coach pricing, competitor pricing, consultant pricing, customer value, Decision Alpha, Etinosa Agbonlahor, Fidelity Investments, financial decision-making, John Ray, premium pricing, pricing avoidance, pricing confidence, pricing psychology, pricing research, pricing strategy, professional services pricing, service provider pricing, The Price and Value Journey, underpricing

Bill Ellis: Your Brand is The Value Clients Perceive in You

December 17, 2025 by John Ray

Bill Ellis on Client-Perceived Value, Staying Teachable, and Why Questions Matter More Than Answers (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 156), with host John Ray
North Fulton Studio
Bill Ellis: Your Brand is The Value Clients Perceive in You
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Bill Ellis on Client-Perceived Value, Staying Teachable, and Why Questions Matter More Than Answers (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 156), with host John Ray

Bill Ellis on Client-Perceived Value, Staying Teachable, and Why Questions Matter More Than Answers (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 156)

Bill Ellis, brand strategist and host of the What’s the Point? podcast, joins host John Ray on The Price and Value Journey to discuss how professional service providers can build sustainable practices by understanding a fundamental truth: your brand is the value clients perceive in you, not what you think you offer.

With 24 years at Anheuser-Busch before launching his consulting practice in 2004, Bill shares challenging lessons about translating corporate expertise to small business clients. He explains why his corporate approach initially failed with solo practitioners and small firms and how learning to “remain teachable” transformed his practice. Bill discusses how client feedback led him to add “confidant” to his service offerings when clients kept seeking someone they could trust completely to discuss sensitive business and personal decisions they couldn’t share elsewhere.

Bill introduces his “ladder of success” framework, explaining how he realized his own ladder was leaning against the wrong building at Anheuser-Busch. He discusses the importance of asking the question “What’s the point?” to help clients move past assumptions and discover what they’re truly trying to accomplish, why better communication beats more communication, and his formula for culture: core values times behavior equals culture. Throughout the conversation, Bill emphasizes that questions are more valuable than answers and that staying flexible as your practice evolves is essential for long-term success.

The Price and Value Journey is presented by John Ray and produced by North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of the Business RadioX® podcast network.

Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Your brand is client-perceived value, not what you think you offer. Success comes from understanding where clients see value, not convincing them to see it where you think they should.
  • Remain teachable throughout your career. Bill’s mentor gave him this two-word advice 40 years ago, and it remains central to his practice—admitting you don’t have all the answers is essential for growth.
  • Corporate expertise doesn’t translate directly to small business clients. Bill learned he had to “soften his corporate approach” and translate what makes corporations successful into language that relates to solo practitioners and small firms.
  • Questions are more valuable than answers. Asking, “What’s the point?” helps clients examine whether they’re pursuing the right goals before building plans to achieve them.
  • Your ladder may be leaning against the wrong building. Recognizing fundamental misalignment in your career or practice—not just working harder—is essential for fulfillment and success.
  • Client feedback shapes your positioning. Bill became a “confidant” because clients kept seeking that more profound relationship, not because he decided to add it as a service line.
  • Better communication beats more communication. When people say, “We need more communication,” they actually need clearer, more effective communication tailored to how different people receive information.

Topics Discussed in this Episode

00:00 Introduction to Bill Ellis
01:52 Bill’s Transition from Corporate to Coaching
05:04 Evolving as a Coach and Consultant
07:49 The Importance of Branding and Value
14:01 Defining the Role of a Confidant
22:12 The Power of Asking the Right Questions
26:07 The Role of a Confidant
27:22 Empathy and Confidentiality
29:56 Communication and Culture
35:43 Core Values and Behavior
38:21 Finding Your Purpose
40:25 Bill’s Podcast Journey
45:11 Conclusion and Contact Information

Bill Ellis

Bill Ellis
Bill Ellis

Bill Ellis is a business confidant who works with senior leaders across the United States and the Middle East. His clients range from founders and corporate executives to lawyers, psychologists, and owners of fast-moving service businesses. He helps them think clearly, manage pressure, and reconnect to what truly matters in their work.

Bill’s career includes many years in branding and purpose advisory, which has shaped his belief that clarity is one of the greatest strengths a leader can develop. He brings this same curiosity to his podcast, What’s The Point?, where he explores how people find direction, meaning and resilience through their own stories.

He is also the author of Women Who Won, a collection of stories celebrating remarkable women and the achievements, large and small, that still motivate him. He wrote the book for men and women alike, including his grandchildren, as a reminder that courage often starts with a single step.

Alongside his advisory work, Bill speaks to audiences about leadership, purpose, and the power of clear thinking.

He divides his time between the US and Dubai, where his wife is based, and this cross-cultural perspective informs the way he understands leadership and purpose today.

Website | LinkedIn

John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey
John Ray, Author of The Generosity Mindset and Host of The Price and Value Journey

John Ray is the host of The Price and Value Journey.

John owns Ray Business Advisors, a business advisory practice. John’s services include business coaching and advisory work, as well as advising solopreneurs and small professional services firms on their pricing. John is passionate about the power of pricing for business owners, as changing pricing is the fastest way to change the profitability of a business. His clients are professionals who are selling their expertise, such as attorneys, CPAs, accountants and bookkeepers, consultants, coaches, marketing professionals, and other professional services practitioners.

John is a podcast show host and the owner of North Fulton Business Radio, LLC, an affiliate of Business RadioX®. John and his team work with B2B professionals to create and conduct their podcast using The Generosity Mindset® Method: building and deepening relationships in a non-salesy way that translates into revenue for their business.

John is also the host of North Fulton Business Radio. With over 900 shows and having featured over 1,300 guests, North Fulton Business Radio is the longest-running podcast in the North Fulton area, covering business in its region like no one else.

John’s book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices

John Ray at Barnes & Noble with his book, The Generosity MindsetJohn Ray is the author of the five-star rated book The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices, praised by readers for its practical insights on raising confidence, value, and prices.

If you are a professional services provider, your goal is to do transformative work for clients you love working with and get paid commensurate with the value you deliver to them. While negative mindsets can inhibit your growth, adopting a different mindset, The Generosity Mindset®, can replace those self-limiting beliefs. The Generosity Mindset enables you to diagnose and communicate the value you deliver to clients and, in turn, more effectively price to receive a portion of that value.

Whether you’re a consultant, coach, marketing or branding professional, business advisor, attorney, CPA, or work in virtually any other professional services discipline, your content and technical expertise are not proprietary. What’s unique, though, is your experience and how you synthesize and deliver your knowledge. What’s special is your demeanor or the way you deal with your best-fit clients. What’s invaluable is how you deliver outstanding value by guiding people through massive changes in their personal lives and in their businesses that bring them to a place they never thought possible.

Your combination of these elements is unique in your industry. There lies your value, but it’s not the value you see. It’s the value your best-fit customers see in you.

If pricing your value feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar to you, this book will teach you why putting a price on the value your clients perceive and identify serves both them and you, and you’ll learn the factors involved in getting your price right.

The book is available at all major physical and online book retailers worldwide. Follow this link for further details.

Connect with John Ray:

Website | LinkedIn | Email

Business RadioX®:  LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Tagged With: Anheuser-Busch, Bill Ellis, brand management, Brand Strategist, business communication, client perceived value, coaching practice, confidant, consulting business, corporate to consulting transition, culture building, executive coach, John Ray, professional branding, remain teachable, service provider marketing, The Price and Value Journey, value proposition, What's the Point podcast

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