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BRX Pro Tip: Easy Ways to Warm Up Cold Leads

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BRXmic99
BRX Pro Tips
BRX Pro Tip: Easy Ways to Warm Up Cold Leads
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BRX Pro Tip: Easy Ways to Warm Up Cold Leads

Stone Payton: Welcome back to Business RadioX Pro Tips. Stone Payton, Lee Kantor here with you. Lee, I’ve got at least one answer to this, but let’s dive into it a little bit. Some easy ways to warm up cold leads.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. If you’ve been in business for any length of time, you probably have a database filled with people that you’ve interacted with over the years that you haven’t really talked to in a very long time.

Lee Kantor: And it’s important to kind of mine that pile, because you’ve already achieved something with those folks that are super important. They know who you are. They’ve already interacted with you, and they probably feel a certain way, probably neutral or positive, or the worst. So how can you warm up some of those cold leads in an elegant way that is not obnoxious?

Lee Kantor: I think warming up a cold lead is about just getting back on their radar in a way that adds value, not in a way that feels like you’re pestering them about buying something. So, you want to lead with – you want them to think, ideally, oh yeah, I remember that person. And you want them to remember that in a positive way. You’re not trying to sell them something on that first swing; you’re just trying to kind of rekindle a positive feeling. So the goal is to just start a conversation and rebuild the relationship, not to close a sale on that first kind of go-round.

Lee Kantor: So number one, send them something that’s relevant with no ask at all: an article, a thought about you. Here’s something I thought you might be interested in. Here’s a case study that relates to their business. Or maybe you see something on LinkedIn, and you go, “Oh, I saw this and thought of you,” or congratulating them on a recent win, you know, if maybe their company had some news. Just some kind of small touch that just says, “Hey, remember me? We used to know each other.”

Lee Kantor: So, it’s so easy to do nowadays, especially with LinkedIn. So many people are posting things, you know, milestones, company news. They hired somebody; they got a client. Whatever the case may be, they posted something. It’s easy to kind of slip back into their radar just by commenting on something that they’ve already posted.

Lee Kantor: And then, at some point, you want to kind of move them from oh, yeah, I remember that person to let’s see if we can rekindle something. And that’s where you maybe invite them to something that’s low commitment, a webinar or virtual event, some sort of a – you see that they’re going to an industry event and you say, hey, let’s meet there or something. But you want to make it easy for them to say yes without being sold to.

Lee Kantor: And then, once you’ve kind of warmed them up a bit, that’s when you can start kind of then entering them back into maybe a drip campaign and following back up. Once you’ve had that conversation, now they’re kind of warmed up more. Now you can approach them about some selling opportunity. But you have to do some of this kind of warm up first before I would approach any type of selling. You got to ease back into the relationship, get them to think of you in a positive manner, and then you can go for the close.

BRX Pro Tip: Focus on Helping People Get What They Want

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BRXmic99
BRX Pro Tips
BRX Pro Tip: Focus on Helping People Get What They Want
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BRX Pro Tip: Focus on Helping People Get What They Want

Stone Payton : And we’re back with Business RadioX Pro Tips. Lee Kantor, Stone Payton here with you. Really identifying what the customer, the prospective customer, wants and honing in on that, I feel like I’ve come to learn that is so important to focus on that. Yeah?

Lee Kantor: When you shift your focus from what you’re selling to what a customer is trying to achieve, that mindset changes everything. You’re not forcing your solution into their situation. You’re just trying to help them reach their goal. And people buy when they believe you understand what they want and that you can help them get what they want.

Lee Kantor: They don’t buy because you explained your services really well. They buy because they see themselves winning with your help. The best salespeople spend more time understanding what the customer wants than they do talking about what they offer. They ask better questions. They listen more. And when they do present their solution, and when they do recommend their solution, it’s positioned as the path to what the customer already told them they want.

Lee Kantor: Ask what does success look like for you? Early in the conversation, get them talking about what their desired outcome is, not their problem. Stop selling what you have. Start helping people get what they want. And that’s when sales become much, much easier.

Recruiting Rebels: How Vader-Rey is Disrupting the Industry

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VBR-Vader-Rey-Feature
Veteran Business Radio
Recruiting Rebels: How Vader-Rey is Disrupting the Industry
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In this episode of Veteran Business Radio, Lee Kantor talks with Darren Tompkins, founder and CEO of Vader-Ray Companies. Darren discusses his military background and how it shaped his leadership style, then explains how his company provides recruiting, engineering, and virtual assistant services, including a team based in the Philippines. He highlights the use of AI and virtual professionals to streamline hiring, the importance of cultural fit, and building long-term client relationships. The episode offers practical advice for both businesses and job seekers, emphasizing efficiency, trust, and veteran entrepreneurship.

Vader-Rey-logo

Darrren-ThompkinsDarren Tompkins is the Founder and CEO of Vader-Rey Companies, a multi-division staffing and talent solutions firm supporting engineering, construction, and operations teams across high-demand industrial and data center projects.

After serving in the U.S. Army and building experience in oil and gas, Darren stepped away from traditional recruiting models to create a company that treats talent as long-term partners and clients as strategic allies.

Under his leadership, Vader-Rey has grown into a trusted workforce partner for organizations that require experienced professionals who can deliver from day one. Darren is known for blending operational discipline with strategic brand building, helping companies scale with the right people in the right roles at the right time.

Connect wtih Darren on LinkedIn and follow Vader-Rey on Facebook.

Episode Highlights

  • Overview of Vader-Rey Companies and its three subsidiaries: Vader-Rey Recruiting, Vader Engineering, and Vader-Rey Virtual.
  • Discussion of the recruiting industry, focusing on sectors like oil and gas, data centers, and engineering.
  • The impact of military service on entrepreneurial leadership and business practices.
  • Challenges in the recruiting process, including candidate management and competition with other firms.
  • Use of artificial intelligence to enhance recruiting efficiency and reduce costs.
  • Strategies for building strong client relationships and transitioning from transactional to strategic partnerships.
  • Importance of cultural fit and candidate preparation in the interview process.
  • The role of virtual assistants and outsourced help in improving operational efficiency for businesses.
  • Insights into sourcing candidates and leveraging technology for recruitment.
  • Advice for candidates on optimizing their LinkedIn profiles and presenting themselves authentically.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Veterans Business Radio, brought to you by ATL vets, providing the tools and support that help veteran owned businesses thrive. For more information, go to ATL vets. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Veterans Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, ATL vets, inspiring veterans to build their foundation of success and empowering them to become the backbone of society after the uniform. For more information, go to ATL vets.org. Today on the show, we have the founder and CEO of Vader Rey companies, Darren Tompkins. Welcome.

Darren Tompkins: Thanks, Lee. How’s it going, man?

Lee Kantor: It is going great. I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about Vader Rey. How you serving folks?

Darren Tompkins: Yeah, yeah. So Vader Rey companies is actually three subsidiaries into one. They kind of funnel into each other. Vader Rey recruiting, which is traditional recruiting here in the oil and gas and data center space as well as, you know, like engineering and whatnot. Vader engineering, which we provide 1099 type project type workers, depending on whatever you need, whether it’s a construction build or back office support. And then we have VRA virtual, which is a virtual professional virtual assistant company. That’s where most of my people are based in the Philippines to help you with whatever help makes your life easier as an entrepreneur.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory like? What’s your origin story of this?

Darren Tompkins: You mean as far as the company goes or.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, well, I mean, I’m sure they are go hand in hand, but wherever you like to start.

Darren Tompkins: So I actually only got into recruiting at the end of 2020. I’d been working in oil and gas for quite some time, like an IT project manager and you know down here, as I’m sure it is in Atlanta, no matter what you’re doing, you get called on by a lot of shitty recruiters, just really bad experiences. And, and, you know, these are people that are just punching out jobs with hoping that something will stick. And when you go through that enough, you start to kind of get it into your head. You know, there’s got to be a better way of doing this. And so I took a job as kind of like a second in command of a small boutique recruiting company. Again, at the end of 2020 where there was no work happening and learned the biz really fast, learned how lucrative it could be for an owner rather than just being somebody in a W-2, moved to a an international firm, but get a little bit of experience, but then launched Vader while I was still there. And, you know, we’ve we’ve been rocking and rolling. Our last year was like our real, you know, build year. And you know, here we are on your show.

Lee Kantor: So what, like, what did you take from your military service that helped you, you know, take this entrepreneurial tact.

Darren Tompkins: Yeah. You know, I kind of ran the entire gambit of military. You know, I was, I was enlisted right at 17, spent a year on the delayed entry program at a very small town called Salem, Virginia. Uh, the only thing people know about it is that Virginia Tech is about 30 miles away. It’s really the only only spot in Appalachia. You know, I was enlisted in the military police. I became an NCO in the reserves in a civil affairs special operations unit. And then I took the ROTC scholarship. So I went from, you know, lower enlisted to NCO to officer. And it’s when you tell people you’re a veteran, especially when you’re dealing with a decision maker who’s a veteran, it’s a little bit easier conversation here in the civilian world. Now, my challenge is always were when I first like when I first took my, my actual first corporate gig, right? Was, uh, I told the engineering manager this, it’s really hard because in the Army, you can just tell people how bad they suck and they have to deal with it, you know, and they do push ups for their bad work transitioning into the civilian world, you got to finesse it a heck of a lot more.

Lee Kantor: Um, maybe they should be adding the push ups. See how that works?

Darren Tompkins: Yeah, no, it might help depending on where you work.

Lee Kantor: So, um, what when you were, um, decided to go the route of, okay, I’m an entrepreneur and I’m going to build this recruiting firm. What, um, what was kind of that? Were you just copying what you had seen and just kind of just taking their playbook? Or were you, did you learn stuff from them to say, okay, I can do this different and better and this is how this is what makes me special.

Darren Tompkins: Yeah, I did take some of the more traditional mindset of recruiting, which is, you know, you get resumes, you match it against the job description, but it was really meeting somebody that told me about virtual professionals that you could use, uh, that were less expensive than traditional American based recruiters. And then, you know, coming in at the end of 2020, you know, AI was really starting to take off. And I saw that we could totally use this to cut time. Cut expenses. You know, not blow people’s budgets by having a big support staff. And we used AI into our process of recruiting, which has turned, you know, our time to to fill is what it’s called when you, when you finally get somebody hired on, on our side is very short now. As long as the right person comes around and that is a cost benefit to our clients as well as us here internally.

Lee Kantor: Now is the hard part in your business getting companies to say, hey, um, I’m going to use you to recruit talent or is it to actually find the talent?

Darren Tompkins: I mean, so sales is always tough, right? Because there’s a million recruiting companies out there and they want to know how you’re differentiated. Um, I’m very fortunate. And then probably about 75% of my work, our work so far has been referrals. Um, companies that I worked for before are now came along with us when I went out on my own. Um, and the sales part is tough because everybody’s offering the same thing. It’s just you have to get through that gatekeeper, explain your ability to do the job of what they’re looking for, and why are you going to be faster, cheaper than everybody else? You know, the way our company is set up is to accomplish all of that. But sales is still something we always struggle with, no matter where you are. And the candidate stuff. I have a million stories I could tell you about getting a candidate to the end zone, and they just dropped the ball before they go over the finish line, whether that’s failing the drug test, finagling for more money, you know, just literally ghosting like you never hear from them again. You know, for whatever reason, it’s just there’s a million reasons when you’re dealing with people that they don’t do what they say they’re going to do.

Lee Kantor: But when companies hire you to find talent or candidates, um, or are they hiring just you exclusively? Or do they, you know, have five different recruiting firms out there looking around because in a lot of the industries you’re working in, it’s like a, an unemployment rate of like zero or negative.

Darren Tompkins: Yeah. If you if you know, if you have a, a company recruiting company, they typically work on what’s called contingency. Meaning we don’t collect any cash until we get the client, the candidate placed. Right. Um, that’s a certain percentage of the, the annual compensation. We have other companies like one oil and gas company here that’s had us for the past year as their complete outsource. So they were just like full time employees over there. We’re always go into a search assuming that we’re competing against somebody else because they’re getting pegged by a lot of different, you know, other agencies out there. But you also have to understand, when you’re in this business, you’re also competing against the client because they’re getting referrals. They might they might have a recruiter, internal recruiter that’s out there looking at the same time you are. It’s, I call it a foot race. It’s who can get to the finish line first with the best possible speed. And you know, that candidate being hired on who’s perfect is the, the award.

Lee Kantor: So how do you go about, you know, finding candidates faster and more effectively and matching the right ones. Like, do you have some secret sauce to this or that, or is it just kind of grinding? I gotta just, you know, I gotta go through a million people to find that the right fit.

Darren Tompkins: You know, you’re like the third host in the past week that has used that term secret sauce, which is something that I use all the time in recruiting. And here’s something that, you know, I might get some hate mail for on the process side, as far as the platforms we all use to find candidates, there is no secret sauce. We all use the same stuff. Right now. There’s AI platforms that are coming into fruition that can cut down some of the, uh, the legwork grind that you talked about, but we all still use, you know, LinkedIn indeed monster and some, some occurrences ZipRecruiter, all that type of stuff. It’s just how can you take that long process from the beginning to the end? How do you cut this down? It’s almost like folding space AI. We’ve, we’ve, we have fully embraced. So in the past, if you got a second for an example, we would get a resume. Somebody applied to a job that we posted on behalf of a client. You know, you have to look at that resume versus the job description, and you have the bullet points of what they have to absolutely do. Right. I think the old recruiting adage was, you have like 2 or 3 seconds to get the attention of whoever’s reading your resume.

Darren Tompkins: That’s still very, very true. And Vader, Rey, we use our own AI that we’ve been programing for almost two years now where we will just simply run it against the job, your resume against the job description, and it comes up with a numerical number. Um, there’s no such thing as a ten, which even guys like Dave Portnoy, the pizza guy will tell you. Um, but there’s a sweet spot in there. And if you hit a certain number, then we go to interview and then we complete this long worksheet of both, uh, functional, which is the job description and the cultural piece of what you need somebody to do. And then we will run it again on the AI and see what the number is. So then I will, if it’s a senior role, I’ll do an additional kind of cultural fit interview. So by the time Lee, you get that that candidate, you know, we’ve gone through 3 or 4 different stage gates to ensure that they’re the best possible one that we can get in front of you.

Lee Kantor: But are all the candidates someone who’s raised their hand and say, I’m looking for a position or some of these because most of the people, uh, that you’re trying to place aren’t, don’t they already have jobs?

Darren Tompkins: Some do, some don’t. Um, you know, LinkedIn has a feature where you can secretly tell recruiters that you’re open to work. Uh, that’s a frame that we’ve, that when we use LinkedIn recruiter tool, we can see, and those are the people that we typically go for first. If it becomes a grind, like you said, then we’ll, we’ll start to look source and kind of poach people from jobs that they may already be in. But if we think they’re perfect fit, um, then we just do outreach and there’s other software packages that you can use to dig up people’s phone numbers and that type of thing to make the, the communication piece happen faster. The grind is absolutely that, man, you never know what you’re getting into. We’ve had jobs where something very simple where it’s like, it’ll drag out for months, you know? And then the client just ultimately gives up and doesn’t want to hire anyone because they’re looking for a unicorn. We’ve had very high technical jobs where we filled it in a week because the right person is looking at the right time and they’re paying the right and everything else just kind of works, which is beautiful to see because nobody wants to wait months at a time to find the next worker, you know?

Lee Kantor: Right. So is there something, is there any advice you can give a candidate who wants to be found? What are some things that you kind of get your attention? So you’re like, okay, this person I’m going to put on my list to contact like, like, how do you, what can a candidate be doing today that’ll so they can be found tomorrow?

Darren Tompkins: Absolutely. And that’s a great if we’re talking LinkedIn, which is, like I said, a overwhelmingly where we find talent. Um, if you know what the format of that looks like, recruiters will never talk to you if they don’t know who you are, where you are, or what you do. Um, and what you look like is, is another piece. Like if we have candidates that are trying to like ageism is a real thing. You know, I’m about to turn 52 and it’s out there and I see it all the time now. You know, candidates will try to hide, hide their age, you know, but eventually you’re gonna have to get in front of somebody, right? But if we look for, say, your whatever software developer, um, if you don’t have that in your job title and this is what you’re doing or we don’t know where you are, maybe we’re looking for something in Atlanta, right? And the guys in Houston, if we can’t tell immediately, we’re going to pass you up real quick because there’s lots of other candidates out there who you are, where you are and what you do are key. Get rid of all the fluff, you know? Um, cover sheets, cover letters and that kind of stuff are a thing of the past. Just get your resume down to the nitty gritty, right? Get rid of all the AI generated, uh, keywords. You know, anytime I see somebody has dynamic on their resume nowadays, it’s like, okay, they use AI to create that. Um, and if we think it’s AI created, we will run it against our AI and come up with a percentage. What do you think the probability is that they use AI? And if it goes over a threshold, some companies don’t want us to talk to them because it doesn’t show your authentic self in the transaction.

Lee Kantor: Now, um, when you know, there are certain, obviously there are certain mechanics of doing this kind of work, but this is always, I’m always curious about this because in some industries, like we just had the NFL combine, the NFL combine, people run and your, your time is your time. Like in a lot of work. Like if I’m an engineer, like, how are you judging if I’m good or not? Like, what are some signals that you’re looking for to ascertain somebody who has like kind of a normal, you know, middle management business job, like is better than somebody else. Like, how can you tell the difference other than just taking their word for it?

Darren Tompkins: Yeah, and if it’s industry specific, I’ll use oil and gas. Obviously, I’ve been around a long time, and I know what a lot of these companies are looking for when it comes to things like engineer, whether it’s a chemical engineer or mechanical, whatever, the job description will tell us what they need to be able to do. And, but there’s additional stuff. If people are in an engineering field long enough, they’re going to get like little certifications. Um, you know, they’re going to understand some of the lingo we might throw out at them. Um, and that’s the difference because some, you know, some of these larger companies, they might hire an engineer and all he does is sit behind a desk, you know, in an ivory tower somewhere. Others, they want them out on the, in the refinery, in the, in the, uh, the terminal, wherever the tank farm every single day. Um, and you have to ascertain, are you comfortable with wearing a hard hat and going out in the Texas heat and doing these things? Um, most people will continue to say yes because they’re looking for better pay or better culture because that’s why people typically leave companies.

Darren Tompkins: But at the same time, uh. Do you have to figure out if the cultural, uh, piece is now with engineering? Again, some of these can be done very quickly based on if the job description is written well and they match up. Others, you know, it could take several types of interviews in person type things where they’ll fly people in from all over. Uh, just to make sure you’re the right fit because nobody wants to hire for short term anymore. And, um, determining who the perfect candidate is, you know, we get to a certain point in recruiting because we’re not an internal to your company. Our job is to get present the best candidates, and then it’s up to you to figure out if the cultural fit is going to work. If you want, if you’re capable of working for them, making sure their motivation is good because, you know, we’re not always able to interview face to face. Uh, a lot of times it will be a Zoom call. Um, and then they’ll get in front of the client and it’ll either be high fives or, you know, pointing towards the door.

Lee Kantor: So in your kind of, um, relationship building within, uh, you know, your client. So they ask you to find some talent, you go about finding some talent. It all works out. You high five. Great job. How do you move beyond kind of that transactional? Okay, I did this thing for you to okay, let’s elevate this to a more strategic partnership.

Darren Tompkins: Strategic partnership is always the goal, uh, especially for me because I’m, I did not build this company because I want to have 100 clients that I might talk to once every hundred years. You know, um, the partnerships that we have are small and they’re, and they’re powerful. Um, we, there are what we call one offs where a company will, will hit us up on a referral. Uh, we need whatever, let’s just say, um, some type of, we’ll go back to developer, software developer, whatever it is. And you know, you get it done and they’re like, hey, thanks, we’ll, we’ll talk, you know, but it’s up to you as a recruiter to make sure that you’re still working the relationship even after it’s done, you’re checking in a month after you’re checking in with both the candidate. Hey, how’s your how’s your new job doing? And then you check in with the hiring manager or the HR, whoever it is that that initiated the conversation. That’s how you keep it going. And for me, it doesn’t matter if we’re hiring like a warehouse worker or VP of ops, uh, we use the same process to keep people engaged because the business relationship side, like with anything else, is key to, uh, putting the best foot forward and longevity in this business.

Lee Kantor: Now is your, when you’re, when you identify a candidate, do you feel that you have to kind of coach them up sometimes and give them, you know, at least some tools that will help them navigate the interview process? Like, is that part of your service as well, working that side of the equation?

Darren Tompkins: Definitely. Because remember, we typically don’t get paid until that person gets hired. So we will give them tips along the way. Uh, you know, one right now is we have a client, uh, that’s hiring, um, the owner. It’s a large distribution company, right? But the owner is in the office day to day, and he brings his big ass dogs with him. The cane Corso and a Doberman pinscher. And he kind of like dogs because, you know, you’re going to be interacting with them, whether you’re just picking up your paycheck or maybe you work in the office, right? That is a cultural question that you wouldn’t have really asked ten years ago, but it’s that type of detail that we get into nowadays. Um, the typical stuff. Are you bilingual and all that? Um, you know, what is your preferred quality of life? Um, you just pick up on it and we do social media scrubbing, depending on the role to make sure things are gelling. Right? And because we know if, if it’s an important job, the candidate is also going to be researching us, they’re going to be researching the hiring team and all that. Uh, and they’re going to have questions along the way. So you don’t necessarily have to like be 100% forthcoming because we want them to initiate some conversation as well.

Lee Kantor: So now let’s change gears a little bit and talk about kind of the, I guess it’s, it’s not the recruiting or the for the engineering or anything like that, but it’s more for the, the entrepreneur, that virtual assistant slash, um, outsourced help component of your job. How did that, was that from the beginning? Or is that something that once you found these resources, you were like, oh, this is, this is going to be really good for us.

Darren Tompkins: Yeah. I had, uh, when I first started the company literally like putting the paperwork together. I had met, uh, through some mastermind groups, which everybody, every entrepreneur should join, one that had really pushed, uh, virtual assistants, right. Um, and there’s virtual assistance programs in every country in the world. Um, this one just happened to be from the Philippines and I got introduced around all virtual, of course, um, ended up when I realized that, man, I could hire a recruiter from the Philippines for far less than, uh, here in America, run them virtually where we don’t have to have a big office or anything like that and cut those costs down that would, you know, bring our margin of our requirements down as far as what we charge people. And so it was very successful immediately. Um, and so like my, the oil and gas client I told you about, we’ve had a virtual recruiter there for an entire year. Um, they’re assigned an email address, access security access somebody that they will never meet face to face, but this recruiter has a masters and, um, human resources. She already knew all the systems, all the platforms that they had. It’s been a slam dunk success. You know, we’ve gotten their what we call time to fill down to 23 days across the board on average, which is incredibly fast given the variety of, of work that we’re doing. Virtual professionals. And I’m really trying to change that word because a virtual assistant is just somebody who just does like secretarial work, you know, they do your calendar and that kind of stuff. Virtual professionals, which we haven’t been doing everything from marketing to website development, sales, um, Um government contracts, organization, everything on down. They, uh, they, they, you know, they’re, they’re just awesome. I’ve had an incredibly positive experience working with them.

Lee Kantor: And then so that evolved into kind of a generic, uh, professional assistant for clients. So like they don’t, it’s not, you’re not recruiting, you’re like, uh, if you’re an entrepreneur and you’re like, hey, I need, uh, more hands on deck. This person could become, you know, my chief of staff in essence.

Darren Tompkins: Could be, yeah. I mean, we, um, and what we do is if we have new clients that are typically smaller companies, right? Um, that are growing, um, you know, maybe the CEO or maybe that chief of staff, uh, just needs some help organizing if we can score a, you know, a recruiting contract or we’ll place a person or two, I have no problem with with pitching, you know, we have this VP, VP program where we can help organize you a little bit. And I don’t mind slicing off time from these guys because they work for me full time anyway. Of giving them some hours out of the day to organize your life a little bit. Test it out. Almost like test driving a car. Come back in 30 days and let me know how everything’s going. And once they do that, then we can do, um, you know, program where we assign somebody full time, part time, whatever they need. So.

Lee Kantor: So do you have a service where if a person’s an entrepreneur out there and, you know, wants to hire somebody, they can hire this virtual professional as to handle multiple tasks that they don’t do necessarily.

Darren Tompkins: Yeah. Or they’ll do tests you never knew you needed done. That has been the biggest surprise. Um, we have have had people come in and we’re like, oh, well, I need you to do calendar organization, you know, or do cold calling. Then all of a sudden they’re putting together training programs because all the people that we hire out all have college degrees and people do forget that. Um, so it ends up being like, Holy crap, not only can they just do this, but man, I think this might be our next marketing head of marketing person. I mean, it really is amazing to see. See everything people can do.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody goes that route, um, the reason I’m asking is we have a lot of listeners that are entrepreneurs and a lot of them are solopreneurs, business coaches, people like that. And they’re always kind of behind because they get hung up on some of these tasks that aren’t necessarily revenue generating. And, you know, that’s not the thing that they’re selling. It’s just the thing that helps them sell the the work. So this sounds like a solution for those folks that they can have some, they can offload a bunch of this stuff that maybe isn’t revenue generating, or maybe some of it can be, but it’s kind of all the stuff that they’re dreading doing, holding them back. The stuff they don’t like to do. You can find a resource for them that might be able to take some of that weight off their shoulders.

Darren Tompkins: We call it getting your time back. And that is so key when you’re an entrepreneur or solopreneur, whatever it is, right? You just mentioned it. I got to spend 6 to 8 hours a week preparing expense reports or something like that. You know, we can get somebody for less the cost of an hour for somebody mowing your lawn or babysitting your kids, you can get a professional who’s experienced to do that, whatever the heck it is, uh, for you, you know, it could be anything from website building to, like I said, organizing your calendar or just doing the cold calls or just moving your calendar around, make, you know, calling your, your A’s and B’s every week. Um, it is a way to get your time back so you can focus on what matters.

Lee Kantor: Now in the relationship though. Is it okay? Say I have a need for that kind of a resource is my is my point of contact Vader. Rey. And then they’re just finding a specialist for whatever need I asked for. Or am I working with Bob?

Darren Tompkins: No, no. So with Vader Rey, I have an office in the Philippines. I have a business partner over there. And that’s key because you can go on Upwork or whatever and try to find them on your own. But if one day they’re just gone, they’ve got all your stuff, right, there’s no legal recourse or anything like that. You know, we’re vested in the Philippines. We have an office over there. Um, the people we go through this again, it doesn’t matter if it’s an appointment center, we’re going to go through this long interview process to make sure that you have the right person and that there’s trust, um, between the client, which is you, me, the owner, and then the team in the Philippines who’s going to be helping you manage this stuff. You’re never going to get a rando from us. Um, they’re all vetted out and it’s a big community over there. Our VA team over there does have a coaching section where they’re bringing in new VA’s to teach them how to work with US companies. Um, that’s very different because you can still get the same people that are working for companies in the UK or Spain, wherever, in Europe. Right. Um, but these people that we’re tasking are learning and they’ve become experts on dealing with the US culture and whatnot. An example of that is we we hired a cold calling team recently where, you know, they were doing European cold calling, which is vastly different. It’s a long blown out conversation takes forever. Just on the initial call here, I’m like, you’ve got a half a second to get somebody hook right to hook them in the door. Um, and here’s how we’re going to change all that up. Um, and it is just simply a cultural and business shift that you have to do. But if you try to do it yourself and just kind of go out there willy nilly, it may not work. We’re offering the kind of a guarantee to get you the right people.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Darren Tompkins: Oh, as far as Vader. Rey.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. In your business, what do you need more of?

Darren Tompkins: Referrals. Referrals from your. Your show would be perfect.

Lee Kantor: Um, so who is that ideal client?

Darren Tompkins: Ideal clients for us, which again, we have massive companies that we work with. We have small companies, a company that’s, you know, anywhere from like, um, 20 to 100 people worth between 5 and $15 million. That’s on the up and up. Startups are key. Also, anybody that has a military background, um, I’m happy to trade stories and share a beer with, you know, one of the key things is I’m always a point person. It doesn’t matter if we’re hiring a temporary warehouse worker or VP of ops. Um, I’m always going to be the guy who’s talking to you. Um, and that’s by design because again, I like being the face of the company and doing conversations just like we’re having right now.

Lee Kantor: So now, is there a story you can share that, um, kind of illustrates how, how you could help a company like don’t name the name of the organization, but maybe share something that was meaningful to you or impactful when it comes. So they came to you with a problem and you helped them get to a new level.

Darren Tompkins: Yeah. So we’re actually finishing one up right now. We have an oil and gas client, um, that is a privately owned. So it’s not out there on the stock market. You said there’s not a lot of information, but I’ve been working with him for about five years now. The. See, the. The CEO slash president is planning to retire in the next 6 to 7 years, we think. Right. It’s always a guess. They need the new vice president of operations. This guy’s retiring now. We’re working on what’s called executive succession planning, where their next VP of ops isn’t just the vice president of ops. They want that person to take over the president role when he’s ready to go. So this has been about an eight month project, a long, long, long runway, because where there are people flying in, they’re doing panel interviews, and then they’re going out to dinner and they’re flying home, they’re coming back and they’re with them, uh, in the refinery and all that all day long. Um, this is a big deal, as you mentioned at the beginning about, about building relationships because this next VP of ops, because we’re, we’re maintaining the, um, you know, the relationship with this person as a candidate will eventually could be short time, could be a little bit, uh, might be our next employer, uh, as Vader recruiting and they’re going to remember us and the great job we did. And you know, our future is bright on that side for any client.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Darren Tompkins: Yep. That’s Vader V a d e r r e y. That is a, uh, for your listeners, a Star Wars reference. We are a very pop culture family. My daughter’s names are Jose Vader Tompkins and Izzy Rey Tompkins. Uh, Vader, Rey. Virtual professional virtual recruiters just kind of worked. That was my wife’s idea. And yeah, you can find us on all the socials and especially LinkedIn.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, Darren, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Darren Tompkins: I appreciate you and all the help you’re giving veterans.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Veterans Business Radio.

BRX Pro Tip: If You Don’t Toot Your Own Horn, Who Will?

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BRXmic99
BRX Pro Tips
BRX Pro Tip: If You Don't Toot Your Own Horn, Who Will?
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BRX Pro Tip: If You Don’t Toot Your Own Horn, Who Will?

Stone Payton: Welcome back to Business RadioX Pro Tips. Stone Payton, Lee Kantor here with you. Lee, I’ve heard it, I’ve said it. I don’t know, maybe it’s a little cocky, but I mean, I think it’s true, man. If you don’t toot your own horn, who will?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. We run into so many people and so many clients and clients of clients that they just don’t feel comfortable promoting themselves. They’re uncomfortable self-promoting. And it’s one of those things that they think that if they do good work, that somehow people are going to just notice. And that is just very unrealistic in a world in which we’re just bombarded with messaging.

Lee Kantor: And for people to think that somehow the message that they’re good at what they do is going to just go out to the people who need to hear it is just unrealistic. Any person in business of any kind, even the ones that feel like they don’t need to, they have enough clients, they have to get their brand out there. They have to tell people what they do and what they’re good at, because if they wait for someone else to recognize that and just spread it on their own, they’re going to be waiting for a really long time, and most people just can’t afford that. So if you don’t tell people what you’re doing, most of them are never going to know.

Lee Kantor: The people who get the opportunities aren’t always the best people. They’re not always the most skilled people and the most capable people. They’re just the ones who happen to be there at the right time in front of the right person when they had a need.

Lee Kantor: So, if you want to make sure that others know what you’re capable of, it’s important for you to go out there and tell people. So you have to be sharing client wins. You have to be sharing case studies that explain what you do, why you do it, what makes you special. You have to talk about results that when you help other people achieve whatever they’re trying to achieve, that’s how you stay top of mind. That’s how people think about you when it’s time for them to buy.

Lee Kantor: Because remember, people don’t buy things on your schedule, they buy it on their schedule. And their schedule could happen today, tomorrow, in a year. You don’t know when they’re going to have a need for you. So it’s important for you to have your brand out there in such a way that they think of you when they do have a need.

Lee Kantor: So, another thing to think about doing is document your process publicly. Show how you do what you do. Show what you’re learning. Show what you’re working on. Show the problems that you’re solving. Let people see your expertise in action.

Lee Kantor: Something we’re doing right now is scaling in public, where we’re sharing live coaching, people coaching us, and we’re explaining our mission and our purpose. And we’re sharing with the world how we’re growing. And that’s important. You know, the more people that understand what you’re trying to do, the more people that are going to think about you when it’s time to buy something.

Lee Kantor: Another thing to think about doing is create a regular update cadence, monthly emails, weekly posts, quarterly newsletters, something that gets you in a rhythm of sharing your wins. You want this to be a habit, something that’s happening in the background all the time, not just something that happens when you think about it.

Lee Kantor: And lastly, don’t forget to invest in your ecosystem. Spotlight your clients. Spotlight your vendors. Spotlight your partners on a regular basis. You don’t want to be a best-kept secret, and that’s something that so many of our clients struggle with.

Test Driving Success: How Our New Approach is Changing the Game

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SIP-EP10-Feature
Scaling in Public
Test Driving Success: How Our New Approach is Changing the Game
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In this episode of Scaling in Public, Lee Kantor and Stone Payton reflect on their recent experiences working with top coaches. They discuss how coaching has sharpened their focus, improved accountability, and inspired new strategies like targeted email marketing, scorecards, and a “test drive” process for potential partners. Emphasizing the importance of living the systems they teach, Lee and Stone share insights on building scalable, replicable business models, avoiding unnecessary complexity, and maintaining disciplined growth—offering listeners practical takeaways and a free playbook to boost their own visibility and results.

Lee-KantorLee Kantor has been involved in internet radio, podcasting and blogging for quite some time now.

Since he began, Lee has interviewed well over 1000 entrepreneurs, business owners, authors, celebrities, sales and marketing gurus and just all around great men and women.

Connect with Lee on LinkedIn.

Stone-PaytonFor over 30 years, Stone Payton has been helping organizations and the people who lead them drive their business strategies more effectively.

Stone literally wrote the book on SPEED®: Never Fry Bacon In The Nude: And Other Lessons From The Quick & The Dead, and has dedicated his entire career to helping others produce Better Results In Less Time.

Connect with Stone on LinkedIn.

Episode Highlights

  • Reflection on the initial concept of engaging with top coaches for personal and professional growth.
  • Discussion of the impact of coaching on business strategies and personal development.
  • Importance of accountability partners in driving consistent execution and progress measurement.
  • Implementation of targeted email marketing strategies to enhance engagement with specific audiences.
  • Use of scorecards to track activities and outcomes for better clarity and alignment with goals.
  • Introduction of a “test drive” process for potential partners to experience the business model with low commitment.
  • Emphasis on living the systems and processes intended for teaching others to ensure replicability.
  • Balancing the pursuit of new initiatives with the need to avoid unnecessary complexity in business operations.
  • Commitment to ongoing learning and improvement through continued coaching and refinement of methodologies.
  • Encouragement for listeners to engage with the business model and take actionable steps for growth.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from our flagship studio in Atlanta, Georgia. This is scaling in public. The next 100 Business RadioX markets, featuring founders Lee Kantor and Stone Payton, along with some of America’s top coaches, helping them grow the network with real strategy, real lessons, and real accountability, all shared in public. To learn more about the proven system that turns podcast interviews into a perpetual prospecting pipeline through generosity, not gimmicks, go to Berk’s HQ and download the free Business RadioX playbook. Now here’s your host.

Stone Payton: Welcome to another exciting and informative edition of Scaling in Public. Lee Kantor, Stone Payton here with you. Lee, we’ve we’ve been at this for several weeks now. We really have been working with some of the nation’s top coaches. This was your initial idea. And I just think it was a marvelous idea. And I think it’s proven to to really yield some real fruit for both of us personally and professionally. But let’s go back to the, the, the beginning when we were getting this off of the ground and when you were kind of refining the idea to present to me. And then later, Trisha, what, uh, what were we really trying to prove? What we were trying to accomplish? And, um, you know, has that changed? Maybe some.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Um, it’s been an exciting, uh, what, 9 or 10 weeks now since we started or since we’ve been publishing these shows. And for me, uh, in my mind, I thought it would be great for us to, uh, get coaching because we were talking to so many coaches and they were really passionate and, and smart and insightful. And I thought, you know, it would be great if we could, um, you know, get some coaching ourselves, but in a way that we can use the platform to share how smart and insightful they, they were and us be kind of the guinea pigs in and actually let them coach us. So I thought that that would be a win for them, that that would be a great piece of content. And then I thought it would be also a good win for us because it would get us to think in, um, maybe in slightly different ways because we’re so immersed in the business that having putting fresh eyes on it, I thought would be useful. So I was excited about that opportunity. And this, I mean, it’s proven to be everything I had hoped for and more because it’s really upped my game in terms of really focusing on the things that matter and then making actionable Steps to take things out of my head and put them into practice. And I mean, I think it’s been pretty dramatic. Some of the, the things that we’ve put into place, uh, so far in this and it’s only been a few months.

Stone Payton: Well, I got to tell you, I thought it was a cool idea. I thought it would be sexy. I thought it would have some marketing legs and all of that, um, has has come true, but I don’t think I anticipated the actual real value for me to grow personally and for us to take action on several strategies, tactics, activities, disciplines that would actually, would really move the needle in what we were doing. So I knew it would. Well, I really felt like it would be fun. Um, I felt like it would it would look good to the marketplace, but I, I was really surprised. I continue to be surprised that it’s really helping. We’ve done, we’ve changed a lot of things internally. And I don’t mean radical. We haven’t changed our values. We haven’t changed the core methodology. We haven’t changed. Well, maybe a little bit. We haven’t changed much in the workflow of executing what we do or helping other people execute when they come join us. But we’ve certainly, uh, made some, some pretty radical shifts in the way that we try to go out there with this opportunity to be part of the part of the team. Would you agree with that? And if so, are there 1 or 2 of those shifts that you feel like, wow, man, I, I don’t know, can’t believe we didn’t see that to begin with, but I’m so glad we we’re doing it now.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. A lot of things that have occurred. And I want to get into a little bit of the specifics of it because I don’t want this to be one of those kind of generality, uh, podcasts where people talk in, in hypotheticals. I mean, we have real things that have happened in real, real activities that have been done and, and we’re getting real results from them. So I want to share some of that because we are scaling in public and public is an important component to this. But I think for me, what it did was it, it again, reinforced the importance of an accountability partner. And I think that that’s something that a lot of people neglect. And it’s shame on me for not emphasizing it more because that was at the heart. This business started because of my work with Doctor Fitness and The Fat Guy, that first podcast I did, and one of the things we did was write a book. And in that book, one of the key tenets was you have to have a support and accountability partner. And that’s something that we were neglecting in our business. We weren’t being held accountable for any of our work. And I think by putting this coaching in place, and it’s funny because not one of those coaches were actually the ones that were holding us accountable. But to me, just the concept of being coached, I felt a the responsibility of them, holding our feet to the fire and us having to execute.

Lee Kantor: And so that, to me was the biggest kind of breakthrough in the business for me is that we have an accountability partner, whether it’s Trisha and her team or but, but the, the totality of all of their work and their emphasis and their, uh, questions, um, are really doing a great job of holding us accountable. And the first thing that came to mind when you asked about what specific actions are we taking more of? It’s been for me is around email marketing. We are now sending out emails every week to for constituents. Those four constituents are business coaches, their associations, their franchisers, and then our general list. But we are sending tailored messaging every single week, uh, to those and those and we’re getting responses. We’re getting people saying, hey, how about this? Here’s an opportunity. I mean, somebody just recently, um, you know, asked us if we would be available to do a trade show in Vegas, and we hadn’t done a trade show in Vegas in forever. And that came about because we’re relentlessly doing email marketing now, so we can point a direct path to that action and that result. So I’m excited about continuing. But email marketing, to me, that was one of the biggest, uh, super real, um, efforts that we’ve done that has pointed to a real result.

Stone Payton: Well, it’s interesting that you mentioned accountability because I think this is in that same vein, but, uh, scorecarding just keeping track of, you know, what conversations are you having? Are you asking them if they’re interested in exploring, teaming up with you? Are you are you getting yes’s and no’s and not just yes in general? Yes. I had three pre calls. I had four post calls. I asked every one of them. Two of them said, well, nobody in our world really says, you know. No, no, but you know, not now, whatever. But and then two said, yes, I want to take the next step. But and it’s created more awe. It felt like it was going to create. I guess it has. It’s created a little more work up front, but everything I’m doing for me is also something that I can turn around. And it really does lend itself to scaling. As I’m getting the next studio partner or certified partner or, um, or, or market sponsor in place, I can give them scorecards and give them that structure right out of the box so that they have that, that map. So I mean, to me, all that fits very cleanly up under that accountability partner umbrella, but it’s nice to be able to see, okay, what did you do this week? What did you do last week? What’s the trend? Where is it going? So the, the accountability thing and at the very tactical level, just having a scorecard for all these different, uh, sets of activities. That’s, um to me that’s been a big shift for me.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. And, and it aligns beautifully with what we’re trying to do is create systems and processes that can be replicated because, uh, the way we do anything is the way we do everything, which we’ve been saying for years. And this is further demonstration of that. Everything we’re building for ourselves is something that we want to pass on to the next person that’s building out a Business RadioX studio in a local market. So it’s only adding value to our offering. It’s only adding value to our expertise. And by living it first, which is so important and something we’ve been emphasizing forever, is that it’s important for us to live it. So then we can share it with other people so they can benefit from what we’re learning. And there’s been so many learnings, uh, the score, uh, the scorecard, that’s super important. I think the email marketing is super important. I think by developing that, uh, recently, this test drive that you created was brilliant. And that’s a great way to implement. Um, to give people a taste of what they could get in a very safe, elegant manner. And it’ll lead them to a buying decision in a very short time. So why don’t you talk a little bit about that and why that’s important to now our process and and what a coach can benefit from kind of going through that test drive.

Stone Payton: Well, I got to tell you, it, uh, it is hugely beneficial and I see it two huge benefits from it. One is I’m leaning more and more into the why of what we do, our values and how and why that plugs into the way we choose to, to live into this mission of ours, of amplifying the voice of business and, and serving the community and supporting and, and celebrating the people in those communities doing good, good work. And to me, I can stay very, uh, well within that set of values and have an opportunity to demonstrate that set of values. When we get to the point where someone is genuinely interested in exploring, working with us. I, you know, I really, I don’t feel like I need to validate our methodology. I know it works and I don’t really feel like in most cases, by the time we get someone to that point in the conversation that we need to validate their work, but you definitely want to validate the fit, right? And so I think in the past, you got you, you had a great experience with us when you built relationship with us. Uh, you, you came through, uh, and were a guest on the show. We showed you how to leverage it. We told you we were doing this cool stuff and we’d love to do it in your community. And then I would just kind of let it taper off. But I think part of it is just it was such a big leap from having a great experience to, oh, well, now I want to run Business RadioX in San Diego. Well, this test drive idea is, is so core.

Stone Payton: And what we’ve been able to do and a lot of people are saying yes to this. And again, the whole frame of it is really not to prove our thing or prove their thing, but just to validate the fit and give them a chance to, to try it on a little bit and give us a chance to, you know, see what it’s like to work and play with so and so in a different market. And so yeah, man, setting them up, letting them invite a dozen people to be on a show that they are a sponsor of like a national show, like High Velocity Radio or like one of those shows. And then giving them a little bit of a job aid to, you know, with the right language to do the inviting, to have the conversation with them before they come on the air. I mean, those are two just marvelous relationship building moments. And they say pretty quickly that, oh, this thing really does work. It’s not this big, huge time suck. It’s not going to disrupt my workflow. If anything, it’s going to streamline it. And that has moved the, I guess the sales side Of of these conversations elegantly and quickly. And it’s just, it’s comfortable and easy. It doesn’t feel I it doesn’t feel salesy. And it just feels so wholly aligned with what we’ve been telling people and what we feel like we are all the way along. So, you know, most coaches that I’m talking to are jumping all over that and they’re and they’re seeing that, oh, yeah, that really does work. Let’s talk some more.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, that that to me, for them to experience it because a lot of times I think people self-select out because they think the work. This is just adding another job to what they’re doing. But in fact, it’s just replacing some of the work that they were doing or were just calling something a different thing. Like they were calling it a discovery call and we’re calling it an interview. And, um, they’re in essence kind of similar things. If you do them a certain way, which we teach them how to do it a certain way. So it’s one of those things where we’re just getting more at bats, you know? And sometimes that’s what you need are just more at bats. And to figure out a way to get more at bats. And that was something that came out of our coaching. I mean, that was one of the coaches that asked us that directly. You know, do you need more at bats? And that’s what we do need.

Stone Payton: Well, and we’re getting the at bats. And I’m excited about the at bats. I don’t feel particularly pressured with it. I feel like I’ve so much of our stuff was already so well baked, but now I feel like I can I can meet them where they are. That was huge for me too. We got some very specific counsel for me in particular to, to be, um, a little more invested in meeting them where they are. Whereas my attitude in the past has been, you know, I need to save you from yourself because you’re not doing it right. You ought to be doing it the way we do it. But, but this with all that in place, like that test drive, you can meet them where they are, ease them along. You can also leave them where they get because everybody in that equation really, uh. Continues to win, even if they sort of stay at that one level of, of partnership with us. Where they’re essentially sponsoring a national or a local show. There’s a couple of different options there on that. And they’re getting value. We’re getting value. Um, so that’s, uh, I don’t know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a level of comfort and, um, excitement toward new conversations that candidly, I haven’t had in a while, man.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Uh, I’m, I’m really enjoying going through this. I look forward to the coaching every week. Um, I look forward to at the end of this first season, kind of, uh, talking to Trisha and reevaluating, is this something we want to do again? Is there value, um, for us to kind of go through more coaching like this, or do we have enough to get that kind of escape velocity? Um, or even is it going to be good for the next round of coaches? You know, are there coaches out there that say, hey, I want a shot at coaching these guys? It looks like I can benefit. It looks like they can benefit from my insights. So, you know, I don’t know if there’s coaches out there that want to do what the coaches we’ve had thus far do and invest the time in this. So I’m excited to see how that plays out. You know we don’t know if if coaches are you know, I don’t know if Trish has a waiting list of coaches that are kind of hankering to, uh, to coach us, but I’d be excited to find out.

Stone Payton: Well, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit that Trisha would. I mean, she is just so on top of everything that she does. But I will share with you this even back to my pre calls, you know, in our, in our, in our, our, um, our, our standard operating process where we are interviewing coaches and giving them an opportunity to share their story and promote their work in those prequels. Now, I often, I guess I do every time I mention the scaling in public series. And I think to a person so far, they all are interested in how they might participate in that. So I think there probably are a lot because I think a lot of coaches recognize, well, first of all, they have the value system of they want to help us. We’ve helped them. Okay. There’s that, which is just part of it. But I think they also recognize that, you know, it’s probably it may be one of the few ways, if not the only way for them to, um, really demonstrate the depth and breadth of their expertise in whatever that domain is. Then to have, you know, a few clips or the full segment of them actually engaged in coaching because you’re not going to, you know, you’re not going to ask your client, can we record this session and send it out in most cases? So I think, I think if we want to keep doing this, I think we’re going to get to and I think we’re going to want to keep doing this. And I think more and more coaches are going to want to, um, help us along the way, I know. I know one of the things we uncovered in my emotional intelligence, uh, survey thing assessment was sometimes I have a tendency to be a little overly optimistic. So take it with a grain of salt. But I think both of those things are probably going to unfold exactly like that.

Lee Kantor: So what do you think, uh, we should do next as we’re, you know, on the, on the kind of the last lap of, uh, of this series.

Stone Payton: So I, I think we have to continue to be vulnerable and share our concerns. And I’ll tell you right now, for me, I am doing more actual work, like designing job aids and things that will help make this test drive more successful as a result, I’m thinking, oh, you know what? There’s a few job aids and I may not even be using the right term, but some, some stuff that we do, we teach, but maybe it needs to be cleaned up a little bit and, and simplified. So I’m investing a lot of time and energy and actually sitting at the computer talking with you and like, okay, what’s the next thing that will really help this person or that person? Um, execute our methodology? So there’s a little bit of me that’s like, man, this is getting, it certainly could get a little overwhelming. You know, we already got this thing that works well, you know, it’s, it’s, um, so I’m a little bit leery of just creating a whole bunch of work for myself, but I’m not if a whole bunch of work for the next whatever, you know, six months to a year results in a lot of good systems in place where this thing is not even remotely dependent on stone or li to, you know, to help people and generate revenue. So I guess that’s a long answer to your question. I think keep doing the work that we’re doing. But I also don’t want to just pile up a whole bunch of work just because it’s a new idea. That might be a nice to have.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, we want to avoid the shiny object. Um, problem that a lot of businesses suffer from. But we also want to kind of double down on what is working. And there is a lot of things that are working that are kind of bubbled up from this coaching experience. And we definitely want to kind of lean into that. But I’m excited for the rest of the season. I’m excited for potential next season, and I’m just really looking forward to, uh, being coached.

Outro: Thanks for listening to Scaling in Public. The next Business RadioX 100 markets, are you ready to enjoy a steady stream of discovery calls and finally stop being a best kept secret? It’s time to step out of the shadows and watch your coaching business grow. Let’s fill your calendar ten discovery calls in a month, guaranteed. Go to Birr HQ to download the free Business RadioX playbook.

Creating a Culture of Care: Strategies for Leaders to Combat Burnout in Ministry and Hospitality Industries

by

HVR-Arthur-James-Feature
High Velocity Radio
Creating a Culture of Care: Strategies for Leaders to Combat Burnout in Ministry and Hospitality Industries
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Baumeyer-Coaching-Sponsor

In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor talks with Arthur J. James, a bi-vocational pastor, speaker, and author. Arthur shares his journey from hospitality management to ministry, emphasizing the importance of a service mindset, leadership accountability, and preventing burnout. He discusses strategies for work-life balance, building resilience, and fostering open communication within organizations. Drawing from his experience in both hospitality and church leadership, Arthur offers practical advice for leaders and frontline workers to create supportive cultures that value well-being and empower individuals to thrive professionally and personally.

Arthur-J-JamesArthur J. James is a native of Dallas, Texas, and a product of the Dallas Independent School District. He is both a graduate of Skyline High School and a former teacher there as well. Arthur completed his undergraduate studies at The University of North Texas where he received a Bachelor’s degree in Hotel & Restaurant Management.

He also holds a Master’s degree from Texas Tech University in Restaurant, Hotel, and Institutional Management. Before and after completing his formal education, he gained experience in the hotel industry working with several hotel companies such as Richfield Hotel Management Co., Rosewood Hotels and Resorts, Fairmont Hotels, Hilton Hotels, & Harvey Hotels.

Arthur left the hotel industry to teach hospitality management at his former high school and then continued his career in education at North Lake College as a professor of hospitality from 1999 to 2010. In the fall of 2010, Arthur moved into administration at North Lake College and was part of the senior leadership team as the Executive Dean of both the North & South community campuses simultaneously until 2021.

Arthur served as the Dean of Business & Technology at the South Campus of Tarrant County College in Fort Worth, Texas from 2021 – 2024. During the entire time Arthur worked and led in education and the hotel industry he served in ministry as a bi-vocational pastor. Arthur also has community service experience as a past board member of the Hospitality Educators Association of Texas, the Grand Prairie Chamber of Commerce, The Coppell Chamber of Commerce, The National Association of Branch Campus Administrators, and the Grand Prairie Boys and Girls Club.

As a bi-vocational pastor, Arthur has experience in both being called to an established church as the pastor of The Dallas Christian Hope Baptist Church from 1996 – 2004 and understands the dynamics of a church planter as the founder of The Transparent Church in Grand Prairie, TX from 2004 to present. AJJ-logo

Arthur completed his first book with Trilogy Publishing entitled Preaching Through Pain, What Every Preacher & Person Needs to know about Performing under Pressure (May 2018). Arthur is married to his wife Patrice and they have two adult children and just experienced the joys of being grandparents in 2024.
In his free time, Arthur enjoys golfing, reading, writing, and running.

Connect with Arthur on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Episode Highlights

  • Background of Arthur J. James as a bi-vocational pastor and his journey from hospitality to ministry.
  • The significance of a service mindset in both hospitality and ministry.
  • Leadership accountability and the importance of transparency in organizations.
  • Strategies for preventing burnout in service-oriented professions.
  • The role of attention to detail and ownership of responsibilities in effective leadership.
  • Building capacity and resilience among leaders and frontline workers.
  • The importance of work-life balance and self-care in high-demand roles.
  • Encouraging open communication about personal needs within organizations.
  • The impact of organizational culture on employee well-being and retention.
  • Practical advice for emerging leaders on advocating for their needs and professional development.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Baumeyer Coaching. Multiply profits, magnify impact. Executive coaching to elevate individual and team performance. To learn more, go to baumeyercoaching dot com. B a u m e y e r coaching.com. Today on the show, we have a speaker, pastor, author with King Arthur speaks and the Transparent Church, Arthur J. James. Welcome.

Arthur J. James: Thank you for having me. Lee. It’s a pleasure to be on your show.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am excited to learn what you’re up to. Uh, tell us about your practice. How are you serving folks?

Arthur J. James: Well, I am a bi vocational pastor. That’s just a fancy word from the church world of saying that. For going on 30 years this year, I’ve had my foot in ministry as a pastor, but also had had another foot in marketplace or the business side of things. So I’ve been everything from a hotel manager and a pastor to being a high school teacher at my old high school and pastor to being a college professor, a pastor to being more recently a dean of a college and a pastor. But now I’m the public speaker and a pastor as well as an author. So I serve a church, a local church here in the Dallas Fort Worth area, right in the middle of Dallas and Fort Worth, the city called Grand Prairie, Texas. And, uh, actually serve pastors and other Bible church leaders through my speaking business and assisting them avoid with avoiding burnout so that they can remain fulfilled in ministry in life.

Lee Kantor: So can you take us through kind of a little bit about your backstory of how you chose this path?

Arthur J. James: Yes. I, um, actually, I think it kind of chose me. I come from a small family number nine out of ten children. And if you have that many children, then you’re on the lower end. You generally have to serve. So service has been a part of my life for all of my life. I didn’t know at the time that I was going to find myself in more a more a more whether I should say professional service endeavor in the hospitality industry until I’ll just go back to the early 1900s or late 1900s, I should say. When I began to look for a career path, I actually went to a school in the Dallas area. One of the first, actually the first in the in the country. That was a magnet school back in the 1980s. And in order to go to the school, I had to choose a career. And so like most eighth graders going into high school, not knowing what I wanted to do with my life and career at that time, I had to choose one of these 30 career clusters. I know I didn’t want to do aviation and fly planes or cosmetology or horticulture, but I was watching the television show Hotel by Arthur Hailey based on that novel, and I didn’t know what I wanted to do, but I knew I could do three things that I saw.

Arthur J. James: James Brolin, the actor, do in that show, long before we had reality television shows that we have today. He did three things as a hotel general manager that was portrayed on the show. He wore a suit every day, carried a briefcase, and hung out with cute chicks like Connie Sellecca. So that made my decision to go into hospitality. And so since that time, I’ve been wearing a suit every day since middle school, going into high school carrying a briefcase. And I have a cute wife who’s not Connie Sellecca, but she does well with me in ministry. I say that to say, uh, little did I know it was a perfect match for me to go in the hotel industry. And so I’ve served and worked from all positions such as Bellman up all the way up to a food and beverage director, and then began to teach hospitality management at my former high school. So much so that when you would go into the program, you would not be able to tell the difference between a paid employee and one of my students, which I was one back when I was a student, before I shifted into teaching. And fast forward through that and managed hotels. Taught hotel management.

Arthur J. James: Got a couple degrees in it and began to do that until I was called to my first church in 2006 to lead a church as a pastor. But still being a and not an education, but a hotel manager. And so the shift for me came realizing that there’s a lot of time that and I love the industry, but you have to be in the hotel to, in most cases, do the work. And so I was able to go into a hotel as an educator. That was my classroom, but still be in that environment, but also free me up to do more ministry. So since that time, again, fast forward 30 years later, I’ve been doing that teaching and preaching each week and or leading on the business side or the educational side as a higher ed professional with more than 20 years experience as a professor, as well as more than 12 years experience as a Dean with programs from A to Z, everything from automotive programs all the way down to welding. Nothing with a Z, of course, but welding programs and hospitality in between that as well. And so, uh, that’s been part of my journey. That’s the, that’s the CliffsNotes version of it. I’d be happy to answer any follow up questions you may have.

Lee Kantor: Well, what have you. What did you learn about hospitality that has stuck with you so long that you stayed pretty much in that space? Uh, for a long time. And it sounds like some of the ethos kind of weaves into your other work. So can you talk about what it is about the hospitality industry that is so sticky for you and what you, you know, obviously like and respect it so much?

Arthur J. James: Sure. I love the fact that it’s a service mindset and perspective. Uh, even when you look at, uh, take for instance, what the Ritz-Carlton used to say, I think they still use it as their mantra where ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen, uh, that’s been my, my mindset from an early time, uh, being in high school all the way through my adult life. I take that same mindset of, of serving people into ministry because that’s exactly what it means to be a pastor or a minister to shepherd, but also to apply aid or to minister to people. And that that’s been my niche. Uh, whether it’s in the business world or in the ministry side of things, and even as a speaker who helps organizations and shares at conferences, meeting the needs of the people that that are there so that through service, they can understand that service as well as, uh, sharing strategies and tools to help them remain sustained and fulfilled in their calling means a world of difference. And so I got bit by the service bug. I think that, uh, in certain respects, we’ve lost the art of service, and I do my part to try to bring that back in whatever capacity I may find myself in, either on the ministry side and or the business side. I love for people, but also a connection of trying to do things right. And here’s what else I learned through the years, uh, in that particular industry as early as high school that have stuck. Uh, hard work. Uh, the principles that you find in attention to detail is one of the major lessons, life lessons that I learned at an early age that I still apply every day, whether that’s being a banquet setup person to being a banquet manager, looking at the details, when you walk into a ballroom, taking it from nothing to the breathtaking experience that a person receives once they walk into an event. And so, uh, I would say that attention to detail is critical alongside of that just to service mindset.

Lee Kantor: So you mentioned that you find that, uh, maybe some of the tenets of hospitality and service are lacking. What are some actionable things a business leader or a leader of any kind can take to kind of, um, help his team kind of get that back and maybe get back on track when it comes to serving and hospitality.

Arthur J. James: Uh, one off the bat, one thought that is off the bat is just simply taking ownership of responsibilities and or transactions. I’m a loyalist, Ali. And if I find a good restaurant that serves good food and great service, I’ll go there and eat the same menu until I can’t anymore. Whether that’s getting my car service anywhere, I find good service that’s repeatable and consistent, I’m going to share it. Now, that being said, I also know that problems are part of the process. So no person or no company is perfect, but it’s also in how you handle the mistakes. Whether you’re talking about as a dean, having a challenge with a student that a student has with the faculty member, trying to find a common ground, figuring out what’s happened so that it won’t be repeated, but also making a fix, correcting the problem, apologizing and not just apologizing, but finding a solution so that whether that’s through a system or a process to where you alleviate the problem. I think we sometimes can make it harder than it has to be in our relationships and in our lives and and businesses, but that’s a huge part from my perspective. Taking ownership of not just the successes, but also when there’s a challenge or failure. Figuring out what’s happened and how can you make it better or improve on the process. And. And at the end of the day, make it right.

Lee Kantor: And then do you feel that that level of accountability and personal accountability and responsibility, should that trickle to every member of the team?

Arthur J. James: Definitely should. So, so everything starts. One of my mentors from afar, Doctor John Maxwell, he says everything rises and falls on leadership. And when you have a leader who’s able to take responsibility and own when there’s a mistake, because none of us are perfect but also writes the mistake, you’re on the road to creating a team that sees that transparency and that vulnerability, but also that level of accountability to make things right in any environment that goes a long way. Creating a culture of not I got you, but a a culture of how can we improve? And realizing that you’ve got a safe place to fail. Now, failure is not our aim. But you want to do everything that you can to empower your team to make decisions, whether you’re there or not, that are in the best interest of your guests or your customers, depending on your environment, but also the employees that are there creating that environment. You can use that same those same principles within the church confines. I’ve done my job to the best of my ability to create a culture, even at our church, where people feel seen and heard, but also feel like they’re not just a number, but they matter and they have gifts and that we’re here to serve them, and that our people know that I’m not always perfect. I’ll share some of my mistakes, but also we’ll share with you what I’ve learned from those and how we can all improve and make ourselves better for the greater good of mankind.

Lee Kantor: Now, you mentioned burnout earlier is having a culture that is not great. One of the causes of burnout.

Arthur J. James: I would absolutely, 100% agree with that. So burnout begins to show up when we begin to overextend ourselves. And it’s real easy to do in both of the industries that I’ve worked a majority of my life in hospitality industry. One of the things that gave me an advantage being in that particular business is when I grew up in the business, by the time I went to the University of North Texas into Texas Tech University to further and get a master’s after a bachelor’s degree, I already knew that in the industry, as a manager and or a staffer, you and I were going to have to work if you were in that industry. Holidays and weekends. Most times when everybody else is off, because it’s because it is a 24 hour, seven day a week business. The expectation is that’s when you’ve got to work. Same thing with the ministry. Inasmuch as we’re not open, our church doors are not open 24 seven. But I have a phone that’s on call. I’m on call 24 over seven. Uh, for a Major accidents and challenges and deaths and hospital visits. All that’s tied into the process. But I say that to say this, that knowing that there is an always being on mindset, that happens in a lot of our industries, particularly in the service sector and those that are you could take the same thing.

Arthur J. James: You see a high burnout rate in the medical field with with doctors and nurses, nurses and nurse practitioners and those who are in that field who are open 24 over seven and always meeting and serving the needs of others. I say that to say that when you understand the dynamics of your organization and or your business or your service environment, it’s very much more a responsible mindset for you and I as leaders to build a culture that’s not that does not just have accountability, but it has rhythms of rest built into it as well, to where you don’t burn your people out because you know that doing service and being providing service rather, and being on stage all the time will wear you out. Uh, if you if you’re not careful. And so I think it’s responsible leadership. To be able to understand that people have families outside of work and responsibilities, but not just that we’re living in a day and time where if we don’t place a priority on self-care, we’re not going to be able to take care of the others that we’ve been entrusted with, the vehicle of service or business or partnership in the world. And so I think it’s very, uh, top of mind for us to consider things such as health and balance. I say quite often, particularly as a pastor at our church, to our leadership team, we don’t just do something because the church down the street is doing it or it’s popular.

Arthur J. James: Number one, if it’s not tied to the mission and the vision, that doesn’t necessarily mean that we have to do it, but also know that we have to have not just the ability to, uh, to utilize our gifts, but also know something that’s very important that goes along with character and competence, and that is capacity. That’s one of the life lessons I wished I would have learned much earlier in my life, because I used to be a jack of all trades, but a master of none, and have worked really hard to find a few lanes that I’m really gifted and competent in and passionate about, but also proficient, but also have that practice of praying for more capacity and giving my team members capacity so that we can carry the load that we’ve been designed to not individually alone, but collectively as a unit. And so I would say to any business leaders and business owners watching or team leaders to realize that capacity is critical to the success of your organization, because without it, it is hard to scale. Without it, it is hard to create a culture where everybody wins, not just the leader or the manager at the top.

Lee Kantor: So how would you advise the the kind of the person on the front lines that maybe isn’t in a leadership position, but wants to live as a leader? How do you help them kind of build the resilience and build the capacity to, you know, ask for space when they need space and to be vulnerable and to say, look, I know this business is a 24 seven business, but you know, I have a life that’s a 24 over seven life. And it’s hard. You know, I’m, I’m, uh, maybe out of out of balance when it comes to the attention I’m giving to the business as opposed to my life. And I need to kind of scale back a little and focus more on my life. Now, is that something that a person, you know, how do you help them be brave enough to have that conversation with their team or their, the, their management?

Arthur J. James: A great question. I think it’s important for leaders first to know that we have a responsibility to develop our people. And for individuals who may not be in the leadership role or the manager position, it’s important that you get a choice in which organization you work for. Ideally, you would find an organization or a company that has or mirrors your values, that mirrors your, uh, mindset of understanding that there’s more to you than just what you can bring to the work table. So that balance or that focus between taking care of yourself, but I also think it’s very important for leadership to, to have some type of professional development plan for each person that’s on their team. Now that being shared, I have shared with any of the students that I that have taught through the years as a professor and a teacher, but also as a pastor and a leader, that it is your responsibility to take care of your professional development. That means you’re always looking for resources to better yourself, finding that that margin that you can, uh, begin to craft a development plan for yourself that speaks to your health, that speaks to understanding those boundaries, that speaks to how do we have those, those lines of communication with our direct reports, uh, the ones that we directly report to our superiors without coming across as looking at looking like someone who is, who is not a team player or who does not have grit or the capacity to do more. So I would say to them, begin to prioritize your own personal health.

Arthur J. James: Do what you can where you are, but begin to, uh, learn your leader and begin to know the timing, when to talk about those situations, but also present, uh, something that may be looked upon as being an avenue where you can begin to have margin. Many companies have employee resource groups that assist with that. But also there are programs that you can have where I participated in some where you have, um, a portion of, uh, margin built in your day to where you could take an extended 30 minutes to take care of your health and wellness. Health and wellness programs with the theme, I was trying to say the concept. And so I would, uh, once those are presented, I would make it a point if I was the person who was not in the leadership position to keep my eyes and ears open and maybe even present something. That would also tie it to the bottom line. Because when you have healthier employees who are in better physical shape and mental shape, then they’re able, they’re going to be able to, to produce better. And that’s going to eventually assist with building the bottom line. So I would say, look for opportunities. I would say take your own professional development and your own self-care as number one of your priority, but also begin to look at what’s already being offered at your organization. And if it’s not offered, bring it as a suggestion to leadership. From the standpoint of understanding it’s not just you, but helping the team overall.

Lee Kantor: And then ultimately take leadership of your own life and choose wisely. Choose organizations that mirror your values and your priorities.

Arthur J. James: Correct.

Lee Kantor: You’re not a hostage. You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re walking in the door voluntarily every day. Yeah. Um, so when you’re working with, uh, companies, what does it look like? What is the pain they’re having right before they start working with you. What what are the what’s happening where they’re like. I better call Arthur and his team.

Arthur J. James: One of the things that happens is when you begin to look at many of the statistics that are out there. Schafer did an institute, Schafer Institute, did a study back in the early 2000 related to the number of pastors in particular, who are burning out and quitting the ministry. Uh, LifeWay did a research more recent. 120. I want to say 2018, uh, that spoke to the number of pastors and church leaders in particular that are leaving the industry, but you can also find some research out there that deals with the same thing, as I mentioned, with the health professionals and others who are in this high demand, uh, high velocity businesses. And so when you have people leaving as an educator, we’re seeing it now with educators who are leaving. I know, uh, just close to home a couple, I won’t name their names that, that are new teachers that are leaving education simply because it’s such a challenging and grueling environment to do that these days to where if there’s not any major changes done, we’re still going to have that, that challenge being faced.

Arthur J. James: And so once there’s a again, as I alluded to, when the bottom line begins to be affected, that’s typically when leaders will reach out and say, hey, we’re having this issue with folks burning out or our turnover rate is extremely high. And that’s one of the things that for years we would see in the hospitality industry. It’s not uncommon to see anywhere upwards of 75% or more turnover in the hospitality industry. I believe it’s gotten a little bit better through the years, just simply because of the dynamics of the change of the environment, but it’s still relatively high, high turnover, particularly in the entry level positions and jobs. So when you see a lot of that, the wise, I think, and the successful organizations and leaders look for resources and tools to help their teams become develop more so that they can sustain for the long haul and have people who are committed to the organization and not just committed to the organization, but committed to, again, to themselves as a part of the organization to have a win win relationship take place now.

Lee Kantor: Is there a story you can share that can show the impact of working with you? Don’t name the name of the organization, but maybe share the challenge they came to you with and how you were able to help them get to a new level.

Arthur J. James: Yes, there was a conference I spoke at just a few months ago, and there were several folks who let me know after the event that they were really on the verge of walking out and leaving their positions. And through some follow up and through some additional strategies, I shared with them the importance of taking care of themselves health wise, first through prayer and also realizing that part of what you said as well. Uh, we’re not, no one’s forcing us to, to stay at a position or at a company. Uh, when things are not working. And so even though people need jobs, we understand that. And many times they’re hard to come by, particularly good ones. People still have a choice. And so just being mindful of that. And then of course, following up with them and sharing some additional resources and tools that help them because one of the you asked a question that I’ve been asked by several attendees, uh, related to a talk that I shared about avoiding burnout in the same question that people were asking is what you were saying sharing. And that is, how do I share with my boss, whether in ministry or in business, that I’m on the verge of burnout without looking like I’m weak? And so walking through those conversations and reminding them of the power that they have by empowering them through the decisions that they have and the choice that comes along with that, related to realizing that not all, not every company operates this way. Not every ministry has the same type of dynamics that may be unrealistic as it relates to being on all the time and not having balance and taking care of your responsibilities outside of work. And so I would say those have been some of the highlights of the work I’ve done more recently through speaking and sharing and even some somewhat, some consulting as well, just reminding folks of the choices that they have.

Arthur J. James: And here’s one that that has been very impactful and it has been on. One of the strategies I share with folks about avoiding burnout is taking care of your temple. I know what it’s like to have a lifestyle change. I’ve lost over 40 pounds. I’ve done it before through a yo yo diet and going up and down. But the last 2 to 3 years I have maintained my lifestyle change and I share simple things like the UCA app where you can scan your food and find out what additives and sugars are in there that are added. That can help because all our diet and our lifestyle sleep, the amount of sleep that you get, just opening up those conversations on what I call Pastor James metrics that matter. Measuring every day my water intake, my exercise, my sleep, the number of sleep that I. The amount of sleep that I receive. And just again, watching out for healthier choices in the daily diet. Because no matter, even if you work out, you can never outwork a bad diet. And so from a health perspective, those have been some of the critical ones. Seeing people who get it and now seeing them make their own choices as a result of conversations and presentations that we’ve shared related to avoiding burnout, particularly with one of the key strategies. And that’s on taking care of your temple because you only get one body to take care of. And that’s something that your boss or no one else can do for you.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Arthur J. James: Well, I have a passion to help people. And so if you’re looking for a speaker who can share strategies and tips around avoiding burnout, whether you’re in ministry or marketplace, please reach out. Arthur Jjames comms my site. You can find out more information about that. Or if you’re a presenter or a preacher. I have a book that I entitled Preaching Through Pain with every preaching Person should know about Performing Under Pressure. If you have to present and show up on a consistent basis and remain full of fire and passion while your life is going on fire, that’s a good resource for you. I’d be happy to talk with you more about that and see if there’s any way that we can help you with your business and or your ministry.

Lee Kantor: Well, Arthur, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Arthur J. James: Thank you. It’s my pleasure. And again, it was an honor for me to be on with you and your audience.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

BRX Pro Tip: Selling in the Interest of the Customer

by

Author and Journalist Rick Martin

by

FF-Rick-Martin-Feature
Cherokee Business Radio
Author and Journalist Rick Martin
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FF-Rick-Martin-Banner

Rick-Martin-hsRick Martin is a trusted voice in journalism, public relations, and crisis communications, bringing decades of expertise and an unwavering passion for storytelling.

A three-time Peabody Award-winning journalist, Rick’s career spans pivotal roles at CNN & top-tier local newsrooms in Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia and Atlanta.

From covering history-making events like the September 11 terror attacks and the Beltway sniper case along with Hurricane Katrina to navigating the uncharted waters of a global pandemic, Rick’s experience is as vast as it is impactful. Rick-Martin-Book

But Rick’s story doesn’t stop with headlines—he’s lived through one himself. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Rick not only guided a local government’s communications strategy but also fought his own battle with the virus, spending 17 days hospitalized, including five on a ventilator.

That life-altering experience deepened his resolve to inspire others to rise above life’s challenges.

Connect with Rick on LinkedIn.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Woodstock, Georgia. This is fearless formula with Sharon Cline.

Sharon Cline: Well, it has been quite a few minutes since I’ve done an episode of Fearless Formula, but I’m so excited to be back in the studio for actually kind of a very special interview. This is a gentleman that is a three time Peabody Award winning journalist here in the Fearless Formula Studio. Thank you so much for coming. This is Rick Martin.

Rick Martin: Ah, you’re too kind. No, you’re too kind.

Sharon Cline: It’s true. I’m very impressed to be able to say that. I was, um, very lucky to be, um, in touch with you through a mutual friend of ours who just believes in your story so strongly that he’s like, you got to get back in the studio to meet this gentleman, and his story needs to be told. So I’m so grateful that you came to the studio this afternoon.

Rick Martin: Thank you Sharon, thank you again. Honestly, thank you for having me.

Sharon Cline: You’re welcome. Rick wrote a book called Unmasked Overcoming Death. It’s a story of family, faith and forgiveness. And everybody’s got their journey. Everybody’s got their story. But this one has to do with Covid and how much it changed things for your life. But before we get into the Covid story, why don’t you let me know? How long have you been here in Georgia? What kind of led up to this moment of being an author?

Rick Martin: Sure, sure. So I had been working in television news for almost 30 years. I worked 14 years in local news and 12 years at CNN. I worked in local news departments in the cities of Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, DC and relocated from DC to Atlanta to join CNN in 2003, where I worked on a political desk. I worked at CNN from 2003 to 2015, then became the assignment manager for the local CBS station. And then from there in 2017, joined Douglas County government, worked for the Douglas County, Georgia Board of Commissioners, became their director of communications and community relations department.

Sharon Cline: When you were growing up, did you always want to be a journalist?

Rick Martin: You know, I will tell you, I had some influence, heavy influence. I actually my father, my father was a radio broadcaster.

Sharon Cline: You have a radio broadcast voice.

Rick Martin: And my dad still is broadcasting. He’s broadcasting from home? Yeah, from Washington, D.C..

Sharon Cline: Oh, my goodness. That’s amazing.

Rick Martin: So he’s in his 80s and.

Sharon Cline: And still out there kicking.

Rick Martin: Still doing his show.

Sharon Cline: That’s wonderful.

Rick Martin: I’m proud of him. Yeah. I grew up and he gave me a little small segment of his show, you know, which was just as a young kid. Calendar of events, telling people what events are happening in the community.

Sharon Cline: And like a little kid, you were like your little voice on the radio.

Rick Martin: Exactly. Oh, yeah. So it was a lot of fun. And, you know, but I still remember the day I decided, no more radio TV, is it? It’s when. Hey, dad. How much do you get paid? Yeah. And dad is like, ah, I don’t. It’s, uh, listener sponsored radio. I’m like, oh, you don’t get paid. I was like, yeah, TV’s.

Sharon Cline: Tv’s it. And that’s what made you you go to school for journalism and all of that?

Rick Martin: Yep. Yep. Went to the University of Maryland, got a journalism degree from the College of Journalism at the University of Maryland, College Park. And I loved my experience there. And, you know, actually, I had difficulty getting into the College of Journalism because I wasn’t testing well. And, you know, you had to pass the test of standard written English. If I remember that correctly, um, you have to get a required score. And I just, you know, test anxiety, I just didn’t test very well and I didn’t get the score needed. And I took this exam multiple times, you know, trying to pass it. And it wasn’t until I, um, decided to, you know, I need to appeal or something look into whether, you know, I want to get in. I don’t, I don’t want to just go out and give up like that. So I did, I appealed and got recommendation letters. I was doing internships that I had completed working for the campus newspaper and on the basis of appeal, and the chair of one of the departments there at the College of Journalism had written a recommendation letter for me, doctor McAdams, Catherine McAdams, uh, God rest her soul. She recently passed. But, um. Yeah, that’s how I got in. And in getting in, that really was, um, a change in life. Um, because I loved it. I loved, you know, writing, I loved news, I loved getting the information first. You know, I got, I did an internship at CNN in the Washington, D.C. bureau there I met, you know, Bernie Shaw. Um, Frank Sesno. Um, you know, I loved it.

Sharon Cline: You’re part of something so much bigger, but but I, I want to go back just a second. You fought for yourself. You fought for your. And I also think how interesting it is that you’re clearly very intelligent, but not everybody. It’s not a measure of intelligence test taking. And I just love that you didn’t let that keep you down. You were like, I’ve got to work around this. You know, it’ll even get in your head. I’ve got to take this test. And if you take it more than once, it’s like a thing. And you shouldn’t let it take you down.

Rick Martin: Right? Right. And I think that, you know, now I could see that it was a work ethic. I think what separates me from anybody else is, um, work ethic, you know, not giving up, um, resiliency. And, you know, it’s that came out, I wrote about it in my book actually, um, because I was born with a birth defect that a lot of people don’t know, I’m actually really coming out more or less. Yeah. I was born with a birth defect. It was called a pectus excavatum and a pectus excavatum is when your sternum, your breastbone grows inward instead of outward. And when it grows inward, you know, organs are pushed aside or what have you. I had my first surgery at 18 months old. 18 months.

Sharon Cline: Old baby.

Rick Martin: And, uh, yeah, and, um, you know, so it was a fight, you know, from the get go from the beginning. And I had multiple surgeries, a total of five with the last one, I was in my 20s, you know, to try to correct the problem because they couldn’t fix it. And, um, so I was always a fighter medically and always felt that, you know, things were stacked against me. You know, why me? You know, you had to deal with that. I dealt with that. And, um, so I think, you know, as a, as a kid, you know, that was on my mind. So when I got into to college, you know, I had it in me to fight. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Sharon Cline: It makes me wonder how many times people give up if they had just asked, you know, just tried to work around it or proven in whatever way they could that just because this test doesn’t show. I still do know this. And the fact that when you got there, you thrived.

Rick Martin: Yeah.

Sharon Cline: You know, that says everything.

Rick Martin: Oh, yeah. And I yeah, in college, you know, it was. I made it fun. You know the experience. I mean, it was a lot of work. You know, it was hard, but, um, I took a great, um, honor in, you know, arriving, you know, a lot of people, you know, didn’t get the chance that I did, you know, to at least have a chance to get a degree. And, um, I was really excited and hopeful, you know, that my career was going to go someplace.

Sharon Cline: I love that you got just a little taste of national news rather than local news. And then you’re just like, this is where I want to go. This is what I want to do.

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, and, you know, College Park was really strategically positioned in a great place right outside of Washington, D.C.. So things that happened locally for local news when they happened in the district usually became national news as well, right?

Sharon Cline: So yeah, that yeah, yeah, you’re right. I didn’t think about that. Oh yeah.

Rick Martin: It was it was a big deal. It was a big deal.

Sharon Cline: So then you came down to Atlanta. Oh, you started working at CNN. Um, and then now it’s official.

Rick Martin: So. So, you know, the irony is, um, I worked in Philadelphia and after Philadelphia, I came back, worked in Washington DC and in Washington DC, I was working for the local ABC station and working for the local ABC station. That was, I was the chief assignment editor and I could never forget working there, because that’s where we covered September 11th terror attacks in 2001 and also covered the. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Beltway sniper case.

Sharon Cline: Oh, yes. So all around D.C..

Rick Martin: Yeah, we covered that as well. So there, I covered that two story. So between those two stories and life was challenging. Um, experienced a divorce. So through all of, all of that in one one year, it seemed, or within that period, I said, oh, I think it’s time to go. If I could, I need a break. Basically, I need a break. And, uh, I went to a convention, the National Association of Black Journalists Convention, uh, was in Dallas, Texas that summer. And Turner was there broadcasting and we were putting together, uh, their political desk, and they asked me if they were, you know, if I had anybody to recruit. So I said, yeah, I think I have somebody in mind.

Sharon Cline: You are looking at him.

Rick Martin: Yeah, basically I got somebody.

Sharon Cline: Well, you fought for yourself again.

Rick Martin: I did, I did, I said, I think I’m the best candidate you’d want.

Sharon Cline: And they said yes.

Rick Martin: They said.

Sharon Cline: Yes. Come on down.

Rick Martin: Oh yeah.

Sharon Cline: So move to Atlanta.

Rick Martin: Mhm.

Sharon Cline: Um, how different was it for you? How much of a change was it for you? Did you know anybody down here or was it like.

Rick Martin: Yeah, I had one friend who was in, uh, in broadcasting. Um, and, uh, I did know, you know, a couple people.

Sharon Cline: Yeah. So you start to build your little tribe or life.

Rick Martin: Yeah. Like your.

Sharon Cline: People. Yeah. Even though obviously it was a surprise and a change.

Rick Martin: Yeah.

Sharon Cline: But it’s nice when you know, you’ve got at least one person there that can kind of show you around, especially in the industry. Yeah. In the news industry.

Rick Martin: Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, it’s, you know, and actually it, I ended up meeting my, my wife.

Sharon Cline: Oh, and I love the love story.

Rick Martin: So yeah, yeah.

Sharon Cline: Sorry, I’m a very romantic person, but I also, I love seeing like, you know, happy people, but knowing that, um, if you had never moved down here, that wouldn’t have happened. There’s just something so amazing when you know, the right person comes along and the right circumstances almost, almost feels like meant to be.

Rick Martin: And yeah, especially when you don’t see it coming, you know, you don’t see things coming like that because, you know, once that came, you know, once I met her and then, you know, we had two children and, you know, I mean, fast forward, they’re both in college now thriving, you know. Um, I think we did pretty good.

Sharon Cline: Yeah. I’m very happy for you. What a switch to go from news as well to working for a county. Yes. That must have been like a mean, it’s probably it’s it’s got similar themes.

Rick Martin: I imagine it does because not only did I, you know, leave, you know, CNN to work for a county, but I was working in a capacity of communications, right? Communications for government. And the way I pitched it and I pitched how I could make an impact. And yeah, they loved it. Um, I could be a storyteller, help government agencies, departments tell their story, right? Tax paying dollars at work, you know, and that’s what I was good at. Um, I could break the complicated muckety muck of words into singsongy type and.

Sharon Cline: Yeah, get people to understand music. Beginning, middle, end. This is the point. Yeah, yeah, I can see that.

Rick Martin: And stick and get right to it, you know, not not this long word. Awkward sentence.

Sharon Cline: And budgets. I don’t know, just reasons why this is important.

Rick Martin: Exactly.

Sharon Cline: Yeah. You honed your skills that in journalism that way, it’s very smart.

Rick Martin: Yeah. Yeah. So and that just, you know, it was it it won people. I mean, really, you know, it garnered a lot of attention.

Sharon Cline: Oh, good for you.

Rick Martin: Success of that. Thank you, thank you.

Sharon Cline: You’re welcome.

Rick Martin: You know, but really, I mean, often I didn’t know what I was doing. I mean, government, you know, I mean, I was the watchdog for society as a journalist. Right? And then now I’m working for the government. Whoa. You know, so I was.

Sharon Cline: So scary and intimidating and. Yeah, and maybe not not the way that you ever thought you would present yourself to the world as, like, associated with the government.

Rick Martin: Yeah. I mean, yeah, you know, it was funny because when I was working at CNN, I served on a couple boards. Um, actually one board in particular, um, children’s voices, uh, incorporated, uh, Casa stands for court appointed special advocates. And, you know, I served on the board to help raise funds for Casa and, and they would, um, Casa individuals would, you know, represent children during, you know, juvenile court proceeding cases and stuff. And, you know, there’s some real hardcore stuff that kids, you know, deal with. And, you know, sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s difficult to for them to go through the process.

Sharon Cline: I mean, even to know about these things, you know, it takes a special person to have the right temperament and disposition to hear those things too.

Rick Martin: Absolutely.

Sharon Cline: You were an advocate for them.

Rick Martin: Yeah. Yeah. Huge advocate. And, and, you know, it still places a part of my heart, especially now that I have kids, you know?

Sharon Cline: Oh. Of course.

Rick Martin: So yeah.

Sharon Cline: So you get to March 2020 where, you know, ground zero moment people. It obviously had to start working from home. Um. Everything stopped.

Rick Martin: Yep.

Sharon Cline: And you got terribly sick.

Rick Martin: Yeah. So March 2020. Um, I remember that because I was the director of communications and community relations for Douglas County, and I was just pretty much coming back. You know, I was, I was weary of Covid because I had gotten sick in 2019, November 2019. I had gotten sick with the flu and pneumonia. They were looking at me. Oh, I was in ICU unit. Um, and I’m just like, man, did I have Covid? They said I had the flu in pneumonia, but was this really Covid early?

Sharon Cline: Early Covid before they knew.

Rick Martin: Right before they knew what it was. So, uh, keep in mind, um, I had all these surgeries. And what happens when you have surgeries throughout my life, it weakens your immune system. So that’s why I would get sick. I’d have to keep, you know, get eating vitamin C, getting a lot of vitamin C and what have you. Um, but yeah, March 2020, we’re like, you know, starting to shut down separate. I get to, um, you know, my team is, is at home, you know, and we’re still broadcasting and recording meetings and stuff and stuff running, you know, the government, you know, you’re able.

Sharon Cline: To figure it out to be able to isolate enough, but keep things running.

Rick Martin: Yeah, exactly.

Sharon Cline: Got you.

Rick Martin: Um, but at the same time, a lot of stress, a lot of stress. And so that being said, ah, man, it wasn’t until December. Um, my wife developed symptoms from work. She was an educator. So, um, she, we all went and got tested and my wife and one of our kids, they tested positive and I, my test had not tested positive yet, hadn’t come back yet. And it wasn’t until, uh, went to sleep. Woke up December 23rd, sore throat, took my temperature fever. And I told my wife, wife said, let’s go. And so we’re on our way to the hospital. And as we’re on the way to the hospital, I didn’t have a good feeling, especially after what I went through in 2019.

Sharon Cline: You had like a dread feeling.

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I, I, yeah, I wasn’t, I, I literally, you know, my mindset was not positive and I almost felt defeated, like, because you have all this information. You have, you know, the corner in your office phone rings. She’s going to pick up a body. You’ve got fire and rescue dealing with transporting.

Sharon Cline: You saw it in a different way than even the public saw it, right? So you saw every day.

Rick Martin: Every day.

Sharon Cline: Oh, Lord.

Rick Martin: I mean, literally, my job was part I was a spokesman for the fire and EMS department. I was dealing with the news media. You know, I was a spokesman for the board of commissioners, the chairwoman and the board of Commissioners. So, you know, as the chief spokesperson, I knew all the information I was coming in. And so, yeah, now that I’m feeling weak, lethargic, um, chills and and the memories of what 2019 was like, I mentally was not prepared, but, um, I took it, you know, on the chin, I was strong and just, I called HR director and said, look, uh, we’re on the way to the hospital. Uh, I may have Covid. Here’s my wife. I’m introducing you to her. Um, take her number. She’s going to be the point of contact. And when my wife dropped me to the hospital, you know, I thought I was entering a Mash unit at the hospital. It was just like, wow.

Sharon Cline: I’m sure I know they tried to isolate people, you know, who had it. Um, but they’re just the numbers that were on TV every day. Just thousands and hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people. And then seeing it firsthand, there must have been like a, a toll on your spirit to, you know, to, to actually feel and see the effects of what this is having on the people that are right in front of you, in your community.

Rick Martin: Eloquently said, yeah, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. Um, Um, it was, it was really, really. It was tough. Um, you you knew people were dying. There was no secret. Um, there was also conflicting information. And when I say conflicting information, people were, you know, saying one thing, believing another. So you had conflicting information. Um, it was chaos. Like we’ve never.

Sharon Cline: Never would.

Rick Martin: Have experienced.

Sharon Cline: Yeah. Never could, never could have known. It’s like a movie.

Rick Martin: Yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I talked about that, you know, in my book on masks. I thought I talked about how it reminded me of outbreak with Dustin Hoffman. Right. And, and, uh, Morgan Freeman and I’m like, man, I was getting chills and I’m like, what is this? You know? And, um.

Sharon Cline: They admitted you obviously they admitted you to.

Rick Martin: Yeah. And, and that was chaotic because when they checked me, you know, took my vitals. Um, I still had a fever and they took my vitals and, um, my health was depleting and they were talking about, um, I remember at one point you were talking about, you know, intubating me and I was like, I don’t want to die. And I kept saying, no, no, no, like, no, no, no, I don’t want to die. That type of no. And they were saying, no, no, they were interpreting me as saying, no, no, no, I don’t want to be intubated. So there was confusion. So they called my wife, and then my wife gets on FaceTime and, you know, she’s trying to, you know, mitigate, deal with the situation. And it was like, so it was just really, really chaotic. And my wife finally called, she thought to call a dear friend of ours, Charles, my friend Charles, he’s in the emergency room physician. And she talked to Charles and she said, you know, look, you know, they’re talking about wanting to intubate, but Rick is saying, no, there’s confusion and chaos. Can you anything you can do? He said, well, tell Rick, go on the ventilator.

Rick Martin: Just tell Rick, go on the ventilator. And then my wife says to me, Charles has gone to ventilator. I said, okay, just like that. Okay. That was it. And yeah. And then, you know, the doctors went, oh my God. He said yes. Okay. Then they went into their mode and then put me on two things to that. Me saying, okay, what I took from later, as I analyzed that situation is when you’re at your worst, scariest moment. All you’re looking for is comfort. I didn’t trust anybody at that point. If I’m going to die, I’m dying fighting. And that’s where my mindset was like, I didn’t trust anybody, I didn’t, it was like, okay, God, come on, let’s, let’s take on the world. Let’s what’s going on? And, and my wife wasn’t with me. And that’s, you know, my riding partner. So she, you know, so it was just chaos and, I wouldn’t wish anything on anybody. So when she guy’s as smart as she is, when she got Charles on the phone and she said, Charles, that was just a comforting moment for me. You know, Charles is I mean, he was just. Okay, great.

Sharon Cline: Well, imagine if all of these people all over are going to the hospital everywhere. You are just one of many. Yeah. And they’re just trying to, you know, how do you know that they really are in touch with you. And you’re not just patient in this room that they’re trying to keep alive for this moment when they’re already strapped and already stressed. And you just want that reassurance that you’re not just one of many, that you really are being seen and understood. I mean, it’s a very vulnerable position to be in.

Rick Martin: And that’s, that’s you’re, you’re absolutely right. And that’s one of the things my wife read. She said, you know, whenever she talked to the staff, she was trying to encourage her staff, Look, he’s a husband. He’s a father of two. This man has a family waiting for him, you know. Personalize him. And that’s what it took, because the staff was, like, under so much stress, so much pressure, so much because they had their own families. And keep in mind, I mean, staff was, was, was quitting. I mean, there were nurses not showing up or so from what I heard and gathered. Right. And so it was, it was chaos, you know, and you, you watched and saw so much on the news, but you didn’t know which hospitals affected or impacted and what have you.

Sharon Cline: How sick, how sick did you get? How sick were you?

Rick Martin: I got so sick that I was in a hospital for 17 days. Of those 17 days, I spent five days on a ventilator. I was intubated. I was placed in a medically induced coma, only to wake up on January 1st, 2021 to a respiratory therapist pulling the tube out of me. And that’s when I jarred open, awake and I said, please call my wife. Please call my wife. And the respiratory therapist said to me, Mr. Martin, thank you for talking back to me. Many of these I’ve taken out. They don’t talk back, which indicated that she had a lot of deceased and you know it. I mean that that was what it was like. That was real. That was life. And, uh, we were dealing with it.

Sharon Cline: You slowly got better after that.

Rick Martin: After that, slowly got better. Um, you know, my, um. I was just weak. You know what happens when you’re on a ventilator? Um, you lose all muscle mass, and. I didn’t know that. I didn’t know what happens to you. Right. I’ve never been intubated before. So in losing all muscle mass, I couldn’t move my arms or anything. So I had to go through rehab, but didn’t see rehab for a day or two. Someone didn’t come. So I’m sitting still, lying still. And I did, you know, figure that out. Like, why am I not moving? Why can’t I move? Am I paralyzed? I’m trying to figure that out. Um, so I ended up seeing rehab going through that. And then after a period of time, um, I had to be sent to a rehabilitation center for continued rehabilitation.

Sharon Cline: Could you even believe this? Do you know what I mean? Like you hear about it and it affects some people. They would test positive because they wanted to go somewhere and they wouldn’t have one symptom. And then other people, you know, suffered.

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I, I, I couldn’t believe as a matter of fact, you know, when I woke up, I was telling my wife about my dreams. I was telling my wife about, hey, honey, I think I’m going to get the job. She’s like, what are you talking about? I said, yeah, I think I’m going to get the job. Yeah, president Biden was trying to, uh, he’s interviewing me for a us US government today job. He wants to start a new network for the government. And, you know, so I’m auditioning and. Oh, yeah, I mean, the dream was good.

Sharon Cline: You’re famous in your church.

Rick Martin: So I was I was like, man, wow. So she’s and my wife. My wife was like, no, no, you’re really sick. You’re sick.

Sharon Cline: Don’t you wonder why all of those kinds of lucid dreams would come to you like that? It’s crazy. Right?

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it’s all the medication they put you on.

Sharon Cline: Yeah. What’s real and what isn’t, though. It’s so crazy.

Rick Martin: Absolutely. You know, I mean, I was on fentanyl, uh, and yeah, I mean, they. Yeah, they gave me some serious stuff.

Sharon Cline: Did you feel like there was a period of your life where it was before Covid? After Covid, because I see this book and how much this has. I mean, it’s it’s stirred your soul so hard enough to, to actually write, which is a daunting task as it is to write a book. But knowing that this was a before and after period for you must have been just the impact of it must have been upending, basically upending the way you were before. So to a new normal.

Rick Martin: So to to tell you the truth, um, I the book wasn’t my idea. I, I was not looking to write a book. Um, you know, I felt, I felt like a victim when I, you know, from the situation, I felt victimized. I wanted to go bury myself in a hole. Um, I wanted to hide. Um, and that’s what traumatic situations tend to do to you. Um, I, I keep in mind when I got sick, I was the spokesman for the county government. So I was one of the most visible people that works for the county. I was a man busy enough that I needed two phones so I could be immediately held. At a moment’s notice I went from being seen to. Not by the snap of a finger, and it was at no fault of my own. Mentally I wasn’t in a good place, and that’s. I’ll tell you now. As a result, that’s why I’m an advocate for mental health, and I’ll elaborate more. But I was not in a good place, and. When I had to figure what happened to me. Yeah, man, I mean, while I was in rehabilitation, my wife and daughters would come visit and they weren’t allowed to come in and I kind of lost it, I lost it, I was trying to throw the chairs. I was threatening the staff. I was, I was angry, I was hostile, I was I need my wife. My wife is my life. I need her. And they wouldn’t let her in, I was angry.

Sharon Cline: You reached your limit. You reached your limit.

Rick Martin: I did, I did. You know, there was a time where my wife, the first time my wife and my daughters came to the outside the building on a glass. And my daughters were 13 and 15 at the time. And as they were there, um, you know, I came to them at my walker and touched the glass and we, we were trying to figure out because I couldn’t hear her, they couldn’t hear me. And I’m like, oh, cell phones. You figured the cell phone. So that’s how we were commuting. Audio. So we met and asked, you know, exchanged pleasantries and the girl’s dad, how are you doing? I said, hey, daddy’s good. Daddy’s good. You know, I’m kind of, you know, not telling the truth. You know, tell your daughters the truth at a time like that, right? So as we’re there, a vehicle drives behind me, behind them in the parking lot. Now they’re in the back of the the building at a rehabilitation center. So it’s not a public parking per se. And this van drove up behind and my wife looks at me, I look at her, she looks at the vehicle and she goes, I think we better go. And I was like, man, really? She said, yeah. And I said, okay, because she has two intuition. She’s pretty good at figuring things out. So she takes the girls. She leaves as she leaves, two men get out the vehicle. I said two men get out the vehicle. They put on PPE, protective personal equipment. They go to the back of the van and pull out a stretcher. They ended up coming into the side building of the hall and they rolled out a body. And as they rolled out the body, I’m looking at this and my instincts began rolling. I had my cell phone, so I began rolling, videotaped it, and I kept thinking, I don’t want that to be me. I don’t want that to be me.

Sharon Cline: It’s so real to see it like that.

Rick Martin: Never be me.

Sharon Cline: Yeah.

Rick Martin: You know, I said nobody’s going to roll me out like that. And then something hit me. I’m like, I’m fighting. I’m like, no, I’m not going to be rolled out like that. And, uh, yeah, and I remember I’m like, you know, it’s just something flipped in me a flipped me. I’m like, nobody’s going to forget I’m here. I’m alive. Um, Um, and I’m thinking now, how am I going to fight? You know, the public has to know what’s going on. You know, they’re not going to sneak in and take bodies out. No that’s not. So I called a friend of mine who’s a at the time, um, senior vice president of CNN, who’s a mentor of mine, uh, Rick Davis. And I explained to Rick, I said, Rick, you know, man, I know what’s going on, but hey, man, I’m, I’m, I’m hemmed up, man. I almost died from Covid. I’m in a rehab center. I’m getting help. And, and, you know, they just rolled the body up from the floor. And this is not a good situation. And I think the story needs to be out, but I don’t want to, um, you know, my, my wife and my kids, they’re, they, they, I need, you know, they need privacy. So I’m trying to think how to do. Help me, help me through this, please. So we went through some scenarios and discussions and talked and, you know, ended up, you know, Georgia Public Broadcasting was the choice. And, um, Wayne Drash wrote a wrote a heck of an article and then we reconnected, um, you know, because we worked at CNN together so nice and wrote the story and it was just a beautiful, accurate story, you know, of what’s going on and what have you. And, um.

Sharon Cline: How did that feel to tell your side?

Rick Martin: You know, it was the beginning of the medicine.

Sharon Cline: Oh, the truth. Yeah. Was like a medicine.

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was the beginning of, for me, my medicine. It was cathartic. It was someone cared. And that’s what I mean by medicine, right? Sometimes, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s how you’re treated. Right. And, and so, yeah, I’d heard my story.

Sharon Cline: What did you feel like the public wasn’t really getting the truth about what were you able to share with them that only you would have been able to. To tell?

Rick Martin: That. This people were dying.

Sharon Cline: They’re coming to the backs of buildings to take bodies out. So.

Rick Martin: Exactly.

Sharon Cline: So people don’t see.

Rick Martin: Yeah. And, and this is a situation where, you know, you see what the public didn’t know was you don’t know everyone’s health history. People could look at me and I would appear healthy and look healthy. Right? But you don’t know I have five, six surgeries.

Sharon Cline: Or have asthma.

Rick Martin: You don’t know if I have asthma? Yeah. You know. Exactly. And that’s what the problem is. So we know that Covid was attacking people with preexisting conditions and people. So you don’t know people with preexisting conditions. So, you know, and everyone’s trying to protect their privacy. So it just, you know, I don’t know, it was it, it’s.

Sharon Cline: So glad you had that opportunity. First of all, the context to do it, which is just how amazing to be able to get people to rally for you when you were already feeling so physically compromised, you know?

Rick Martin: Exactly, exactly. I think.

Sharon Cline: Yeah, being able to tell people, tell people what you knew. I love that the truth was medicine to you.

Rick Martin: Yeah. And, and you know, what spoke volumes to was the relationships formed. Like, you know, these, these people didn’t have to Hear my story. These people, like I showed up in their lives in a way that they cared about me. And I think that speaks to the story of really, Rick Martin. And. If I showed up enough where they stood up for me. Man, that gives me chills. Um. I’ve lived life. I’ve lived my life, you know, I. So all this was, you know, the article and stuff and people responding on Facebook and stuff like that. You know, when I eventually got home. Um, a buddy of mine was checking in on me. He was a novelist, right? We worked together at NBC way back. Jeffrey Blunt is his name. Uh, Geoffrey. You know, checked on me and what have you. And we talked and I talked more about what it was like, you know, and he’s like, man, have you thought of wanting to write a book? I’m like, I don’t know, man, I don’t know. I don’t know about reliving that trauma. Right? You know, and going through that again, I don’t know. But what I learned. Was that in writing a book and I asked him, I’m like, well, what kind of book would it be? And he said, he said it would be a memoir.

Rick Martin: You’d tell your life story. And I said, my life really? And I didn’t even see myself like that, I really didn’t. I’m like, man, Colin Powell writes memoirs. You know, John Lewis writes memoirs, man. Tiger Woods writes memoirs, man. Rick Martin. Come on now. I didn’t see that. But I’ll tell you, a friend of mine. I don’t know, man. This was all a spiritual journey. A friend of mine named James Taylor. God just placed his name on my heart. James Taylor. James Taylor, James Taylor. James Taylor. James was a buddy who had produced a book before, and he said he only did one book. James is a graphic design artist. And you know, I didn’t have any money, but I’m like, James, you know, do you think you could help me? So I just need to know how much it costs. James. Any, any. And he said, well, yeah, I think I could do this. And I’m like, James built that graphic you see in holding and it it did. And he said, well, you know, tell me your vision. And I said, you know, man, basically it’s just from despair to triumph. And I gave him the pictures and he put it together. And when I saw it, it literally brought tears to my eyes.

Sharon Cline: Yeah, I can only imagine.

Rick Martin: It brought tears to my eyes because I know he saw something that I didn’t and couldn’t. Whatever blinders I just. I didn’t see it.

Sharon Cline: That’s why I love that because so many people, God makes them all different, you know, but to.

Rick Martin: Be.

Sharon Cline: You know, someone could could see something you can’t. But he they’re needed. You’re needed. He’s needed in order to, to help each other.

Rick Martin: And it’s, it’s so funny. Like he, he’s, he, because I know it’s for him. It’s just, you know, his work. Yeah, yeah.

Sharon Cline: For me more than that. Yeah, yeah.

Rick Martin: For me, man, you changed my life, bro. Bro, you made me live, man. I know he’s tired of me, right?

Sharon Cline: He’s seriously talking about me again.

Rick Martin: He helped me, lost my mind. He helped me lose my mind. Like I’m just like, you don’t understand. You don’t.

Sharon Cline: But you know what? The themes I think are so important that you touched on it really is, uh, facing death makes you think about life differently, right? How many of us have rebirths of our lives and stories and chapters of our lives that have the exact same theme of rebuilding or a change? So even if your story can’t be exactly replicated, the themes of them can be understood by anybody.

Rick Martin: It it can. And, you know, people have heard this before, like resilience. We had our word a lot. But resilience can come in different forms and that’s what makes it different. And what made my journey incredibly, incredibly powerful and uplifting. Are the people that got me to where I am today. The people who got me. Now I’m not just talking my wife and my daughters, right? I’m talking people who helped support me, encourage me. You know, um, Wayne Drash wrote the article of Georgia Public Broadcasting. I ended up tracking him down because I needed another editor to go through, and he chipped in.

Sharon Cline: Oh.

Rick Martin: You know, gave me the family discount, but he chipped in and, you know, to, to edit and you know, I’m like, wow.

Sharon Cline: You were loved on. You were, you were loved.

Rick Martin: Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah, that’s exactly it. I was loved on where I was loved on at a time where I felt the earth left me. And I was left to be buried.

Sharon Cline: At your lowest, lowest.

Rick Martin: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Sharon Cline: Most vulnerable. Right.

Rick Martin: It. It. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there’s a quote now for me. I was ten years old when I personally accepted Christ as my savior. And what I learned from this ordeal. That I was committed to my ego. You know, through the job titles I had, through the organizations I worked for. And I was so committed to the brand and the titles that after this ordeal, I’m now committed to my faith and family. So if I had to do it all over again, I would if I could be the person I am today. And I know that’s hard to believe. But I thank God he allowed me to be the person I am today because I interact with so many people. To encourage them to love on them and just get them out of the rut that they’re in.

Sharon Cline: The business of being a human, that can just derail anybody’s thought processes and can take over. And even just an attitude change can make everything good or bad.

Rick Martin: Absolutely. Your attitude is altitude. You know, I just and I just love helping and raising people’s, you know, attitude, especially when they’re down. Oh, totally. Totally.

Sharon Cline: When you look at how you interacted with people and your job and the county before, how do you, how do you approach it now? Like, I know that you said you love on people, but. Do you do you feel a different sense of peace, I guess?

Rick Martin: Yeah. Yeah. Um. What I could tell you now. So I’m no longer working for the county. Um. I need peace in my life. Whatever I do now. I could tell you that whatever I do for a living now, you know, I’m consulting. But if I’m to become employed, there’s got to be a peace. Like I won’t tolerate gaslighting, rudeness, disrespectfulness.

Sharon Cline: No, the, um. The way people can backstab to get ahead like that price is just too high.

Rick Martin: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I’m I’m all about a healthy environment. Yeah. Healthy is it?

Sharon Cline: Who would have ever thought that going through something like this would have landed you here, even in the studio today. It’s it’s kind of, um, amazing, you know? So like, I wonder at things like this. It’s just like, it’s a wondrous thing.

Rick Martin: It is, it is, it really is. Um, you know, I’ll tell you now, you know, I live truly a purpose driven life. Um, I used to be very intense at home with the family and stuff, and now everything’s cool.

Sharon Cline: You don’t like, you don’t sweat the small stuff, so to speak.

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah. I’m like, we’ll get through this. We’ll get through this, we’ll get through this.

Sharon Cline: Okay?

Rick Martin: It’ll be okay. We’ll get through this. Yeah, definitely. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: What do you think? Um. What do you wish that you had known before this happened? That you wish you could tell people now, like the lesson that you learned so that someone doesn’t have to face this kind of moment of death for them to be able to glean, glean, and learn something from your experience and your wisdom. What would you want them to know?

Rick Martin: I’m glad you asked, honestly, and I don’t. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart. And I’m going to say this to men, you know. So I want men to hear me loud and clearly. Get mental health care. Um, we live hard lives, tough lives at the same time. We wear a mask.

Sharon Cline: Everything’s fine.

Rick Martin: Everything’s a mask. We walk around like we got it handled. We walk around like everything’s fine. Not a big deal. We got this. You know, we got it handled. It’s okay when you know, stuff hits the fan. Um. And there’s chaos, and we don’t have all the answers. We end up carrying the weight of the world on our shoulders, and it’s too much. And I’m here to tell you it’s too much. Um, I needed mental health care coming out from the trauma. Our brains are not able to handle this kind of trauma and normalcy, And I had to seek the treatment necessary. And it’s important, you know, there’s a difference between counseling and therapy and psychiatry. You know, um, psychiatry is when medicine is provided, you know. Um, and what have you. And then some people need that medicine because the trauma is so severe that the brain chemicals have been altered. And when brain chemicals are altered, you need to get the chemicals back in order for you to sustain a reasonable life.

Sharon Cline: Not a failure either, because there’s such a stigma with things like that.

Rick Martin: Exactly. And, and what I want to encourage people to do is look, be the advocate for yourself. Be that. Stop listening to people. Believe in yourself and people you trust. See your physician. Your your primary care physician. Your your health care. You know, and from that point, you know, you see a counselor, see a psychiatrist. Do your homework, read. It’s so important. And, um, really, all of this is what got me, like, here to the studio. I mean, I was on a television show, talk show this week, earlier this week. I did another radio interview. I’ve been doing interviews for a year since the launch of the book. I never imagined like an end. I’ll be honest. I’ll be so honest. There was a part of me that didn’t even want to talk about mental health because I was a journalist and I’m like, no, no, no, no. I don’t need. But you know what? After this experience, I’m telling you, I’ve got nothing to lose. I’m all in, you know, and I. I challenge somebody that would have an issue with discussing mental health, you know? And I remember I used to be one of those like, oh, no, no, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. No, no, no.

Sharon Cline: It’s funny when you resist something so hard, it’s almost like the only way to stop resisting and and actually is, is to embrace it. And then the, the good things come by embracing it. But I have the same thing. I have the big hard no and no, no, no, I got it. I’m gonna do it this way. And yeah. And no, I don’t want to talk about it like that. And but it’s almost like the harder the no is, the more I’m supposed to do it.

Rick Martin: Exactly. And, and it goes and spiritually speaking, let go, let God. And that’s really what I had to do And I am.

Sharon Cline: I bet you’ve heard story after story after story of people who needed someone to normalize that topic.

Rick Martin: Yeah.

Sharon Cline: For men, I think it’s hard for men in so many different ways. Hard for women, but hard for men in so many different ways, too.

Rick Martin: Because we’ve grew up and were trained differently. You know that that’s the bottom line, you know? So it’s from generation to generation to generation. But I’m here to tell, you know, you got to do it differently. Really, you know, um, definitely.

Sharon Cline: I love that you’re a spokesperson, an unintended spokesperson for a topic that, um, feels like it’s time has come.

Rick Martin: Yeah, it really has. Um, and you know Yeah, I, you know, I mean, this is the first podcast that I’m like so comfortable and open, you know, and I think probably because, you know, I, I don’t know, it’s, you know, you’re really good at what you do.

Sharon Cline: Oh.

Rick Martin: So I applaud you.

Sharon Cline: Well, thanks, but wait, we got that recorded, I’m sure, but. Wait. My ego.

Rick Martin: Well, well, you know.

Sharon Cline: I’m just kidding. Hey.

Rick Martin: Listen, you know, I’m a happily married man of two daughters. So women is boss, right?

Sharon Cline: Thank you. This is the best interview I’ve done. Woman is yours.

Rick Martin: Woman’s boss. Man.

Sharon Cline: Hey.

Rick Martin: It took me to be on my deathbed to get that straight. Okay? Woman is boss.

Sharon Cline: Well, I think what’s interesting about it, too, is, like, even though a lot of people look at ego as being, you know, it can be taken too far and can be, you know, your foibles can all come from you. But there is a healthy sense of ego and a healthy sense of self-esteem that that can be used for good. Yes. You know, and, and you seem to be the kind of person that would be very conscious of whether you’re in alignment with yourself or not.

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely. You know, I think, I think, you know, feeling sort of proud of, um, the accomplishments of overcoming such great adversity is something you care that ego with and you’re helping any and everyone who’s going through a difficult time get through it, you know? I mean, that’s what I wanted to tell you. So there’s a quote, uh, in my book, you know. Oh, yeah. So, you know, I talk about how far ago I accepted Christ as a kid, but I was suffering so badly in that hospital like I wanted the Lord to either heal me or kill me, like the suffering that I was feeling. Being alone, I couldn’t see. I wear glasses, as you can see. I didn’t have my glasses so I can’t see anything. So talk about being vulnerable. I can’t see and there are no windows. There’s no light. There’s no. And the quote I have. There’s nothing like knocking on death’s door. Only to have your Lord and Savior turn you away. And what I mean by that is I wanted to sit with people. And the way you make it sit is. I wanted to enter the gates of heaven to get away from the suffering. That’s how big my ego was. Let me in, let me in! No. God has more work for me to do. He brought me. He wanted me to go back. So I did. I didn’t want to come back.

Sharon Cline: You had to fight.

Rick Martin: But you know, he didn’t give me a choice, right? So. Okay.

Sharon Cline: You’re doing, do you? Because it sounds like to me that you’re doing what God wants you to do with it. I mean, this is like a vocation now.

Rick Martin: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Exactly. You, you. That’s it, that’s it. That’s the context of my life. I mean, I never imagined writing a book. I wrote my memoir. That’s crazy to me.

Sharon Cline: Oh.

Rick Martin: Oh, and let me tell you, when I wrote let me tell you how God is working in my life. I wrote and launched that memoir March 26th, 2025. Two months later, a New York City publishing company, Morgan Jane’s Publishing, signed me to a book deal in June.

Sharon Cline: Wow.

Rick Martin: So we have the latest edition of unmasked, and the titles changed a little bit. Unmasked. How one man overcame death with the power of family, faith and forgiveness. It’s coming out later this year.

Sharon Cline: Oh my goodness. Yeah. You never would have thought that would ever happen. Isn’t that amazing? I don’t know. You’re right. I’m amazed.

Rick Martin: I am, I am too, because I don’t. That’s that’s real. It’s real.

Sharon Cline: It’s funny, I, I talk about this a lot in over the years that I’ve done this podcast that I think we’re here to help each other. Yeah. Um, because I think it’s very hard to be a human on the planet and that when you find something that you believe in and really want and only you know this, really want what’s good for other people. I mean, you know, if it’s a sacred something to you, right? And God is part of it. It’ll go where he wants it to go.

Rick Martin: That’s true.

Sharon Cline: And it’s so neat to actually see it, you know, in real time with your life.

Rick Martin: That’s true. Thank you, thank you.

Sharon Cline: Oh, that was a that was an amen from from God.

Rick Martin: I think so.

Speaker 4: I don’t actually.

Sharon Cline: Know what.

Speaker 4: That was. Wow.

Sharon Cline: Something fell in the studio, which is kind of unusual. Um, well, no, I mean, it sounds it sounds to me like the transformation that you’ve gone through has almost like what I consider a f the phoenix, you know, where everything that wasn’t necessary for you in your life got burned away and you became even a purer version of you.

Rick Martin: Yeah. Yeah, I really think so. And oh, yeah, I’m taking good care of my health. You know, I’m trying to work on doing my walks. I used to walk a lot. Um. And you’re picking up walking. Um, I do, uh, biofeedback treatments, you know, homeopathic care. And, you know, I do a lot to, you know.

Speaker 4: Take care of myself.

Rick Martin: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Sharon Cline: I’m sure. One scary flu, you know, probably be terrifying, you know, given what you’ve been through.

Rick Martin: Oh, yeah.

Sharon Cline: So every day, every day that you’re healthy is like a good day.

Rick Martin: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sharon Cline: I need to hear that because I can be all grumpy about things. But the truth is, if you don’t have your health, there’s a lot more to be upset about.

Rick Martin: Your health is your wealth really? Yeah.

Sharon Cline: Well, before we wrap up, which I hate to have it end because I’m enjoying this conversation so much. Um, is there something you would like to tell the listeners? Um, about like where they can find your book and, and, um, and find more information about you.

Rick Martin: Sure, sure. Um, my book’s website is Rick Martin media.com. Um, you can find me there. Uh, also, I have a book crowd funding platform on publishing or publicizing.

Speaker 4: I saw it, I thought that was amazing.

Rick Martin: Yeah, I would just Google, you know, Rick Martin en masse and publicize her. You know, I encourage you to preorder the, uh, next edition of unmasked later this year. Um, and I am traveling and speaking and sharing my story. Um, so you can make requests to, on Rick Martin Media.com and I’d be happy to consider coming out. You know what’s cool about this? You know, with me speaking is that, um, at the end after I speak, I turn the tables as a spokesman for county government. I allow people to answer to, um, ask questions. Um, and it’s kind of cool because nothing’s off the table so they can act like a reporter. Great engagement for all those who attend.

Sharon Cline: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. Something that could have taken you down and turned you to a very bitter and victim kind of mentality person that would have done nothing good for your spirit or the world. You chose the higher ground and you. You believed in your love of your family and love of the people around you so much. And it bolstered you to fight and and now you get to fight for people who don’t have that opportunity and maybe don’t have the voice that you do to affect people, the quality of people’s lives by loving them too, in their own way.

Rick Martin: Well, this has been awesome. Now, thank you so much for having me. Um, it was truly a pleasure. Thank you and honor to be here and, uh. Oh, yeah.

Sharon Cline: Well, come, come back. I would love to hear more about like when your, your next book launches. I would love to hear about, um, sort of your journey and the things that you’re learning along the way because it’s not over. That’s true. There’s more coming.

Rick Martin: The story is continuing. Oh, yeah.

Sharon Cline: Well, thank you all too for listening to Fearless Formula on Business RadioX. And again, this is Sharon Cline reminding you that with knowledge and understanding, we can all have our own fearless formula. Have a great day. Usually I have music playing at that party. I don’t know why it’s not playing, but anyway, it’s over. That was so fun. That was. I wanted to ask you more questions, I wanted. I always forget to ask this, but like the show’s fearless formula, like what is your fearless formula? I like to ask that question.

Rick Martin: Yeah, no.

Sharon Cline: It’s still running. I could splice it in.

Rick Martin: Okay.

Sharon Cline: What is your fearless formula? Rick Martin.

Rick Martin: Help me. I don’t even understand what’s.

Sharon Cline: If there was something that you do that’s a good. That’s actually a good question. Is there something that you do that allows you to face. What is a normal fear for people like public speaking or like fear of death things, things that normally take people down? What is your formula that you put together that fights that?

Rick Martin: It’s called the laser strategy. The laser strategy actually is a specific guiding tool of principles that helps individuals get over stress before stress takes over them. Um, it’s an acronym stands for listen, assess, support, execute and respond. And I work with a team that helps people deal with their stress and difficult situations. My wife and I were able to develop it in 2009 when it was at CNN. No. Yeah. No way.

Sharon Cline: You actually really have a formula. Yeah. It’s not just like an idea. That’s actually like a real. I think you might be the first person I’ve ever asked that question to where you’re like, oh, no, I know.

Rick Martin: You just can’t be focused on managing your stress. You got to be laser focused. And the reason laser works for your brain because when you feel stress, you receive some bad news or anger. You got to listen first. You want to close your mouth shut, listen. So you know, you can begin to process, to engage in the calming effect of your body and the stress that’s compounding on it.

Sharon Cline: You’re taking that the information out of your limbic system fight or flight, and you’re using the higher functioning of your brain.

Rick Martin: Yes. Listen. And then a, you assess, take a diagnostic examination of exactly what’s causing the stress. Right? What is it? Is it, you know, really the words that were said to you, really the feeling, what’s causing that stress, maybe the lack of sleep. You didn’t have s support. Ask for help. Don’t suffer in silence. Ask for help. E execute. Winning coaches will tell you. You don’t just have a plan or a play. You got to execute it. The players have to execute the play. And then our respond and what you’re responding to you’re responding to. The whole guidance of the principals.

Sharon Cline: Not just that response.

Rick Martin: Right? Yes.

Sharon Cline: And really.

Rick Martin: Yeah. Review how things are going. You know, what’s working for you, what’s not working. What can you do to avoid similar situations? Yeah.

Sharon Cline: Well, I’m so glad. I’m so glad that I asked you. Thank you. I’m going to tag this on the end, but thank you so much, Rick, I love that. I hope people listen to that and can take that in, not just in um, I mean, for mental health reasons. Yeah. You know, I mean, just the not just everyday fears, but like there are times where like you said, a bad news, anything even feeling bad about myself, about something, I can still use that absolutely. Uh, tool. I like tools.

Rick Martin: Yeah, yeah. And that’s exactly what it is.

Sharon Cline: Yeah, I like tools.

Rick Martin: So I’m, I’m, I share that. And that’s part of my mantra for, you know, what happens everyone. Everyone doesn’t always like to say the word mental health, right? Mental because of the stigma. So what I do is I talk about stress. I’ll bring up stress.

Sharon Cline: Everybody knows stress.

Rick Martin: Everybody knows stress. Everyone can relate to stress. People will react differently to the word stress rather than mental health. So I just talk about stress, right? Talking about the same thing. But stress makes you feel better. Stressed then. Yeah.

Sharon Cline: Here’s what you do when you’re stressed.

Rick Martin: Exactly.

Sharon Cline: Not having a mental breakdown. Just stress.

Rick Martin: Exactly.

Sharon Cline: Thank you. Rick.

Rick Martin: Ah. My pleasure.

Sharon Cline: Okay, we’re done now.

Rick Martin: Okay.

BRX Pro Tip: The Membership Model

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BRX Pro Tips
BRX Pro Tip: The Membership Model
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BRX Pro Tip: The Membership Model

Stone Payton : And we’re back with Business RadioX Pro Tips. Lee Kantor, Stone Payton here with you. Lee, I’ve had some success here locally with the Community Partner Program. We’ve had some success more globally with the network, but let’s talk about it a little bit, the idea of the membership business model.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. So, something to think about. And a lot of people who are just in business selling a thing or a service, they’re not looking at their business kind of holistically. And is it possible to create a membership model around your business instead of having your business built on one-off transactions, one at a time?

Lee Kantor: Most people, they sell a project, they deliver the project, and then they have to go on and find another client to sell a project, deliver a project. And that’s tough. It’s hard. It’s unpredictable. But is it possible to take what you’re doing or some of what you’re doing and turn it into some sort of recurring revenue with a membership model?

Lee Kantor: Some things to think about if you’re considering that is what problem do my clients have that doesn’t go away after one transaction? Is there something that you can be doing to help them month after month, just kind of on autopilot, that’s already built into the type of activities you’re already doing?

Lee Kantor: Is it possible to package what you’re doing as ongoing value rather than just solving a specific problem one time? Can you incorporate monthly strategy calls, regular content, accountability, coaching, community access, priority support, any type of ongoing implementation? Is it possible to just kind of layer all of those value propositions into a package that can help somebody on a regular basis, so they know they can just call you and it’s taken care of? It’s kind of like you’re being on retainer for these kinds of activities.

Lee Kantor: And it’s clear to know if you’re considering a membership model, who are my best clients? Who would pay for more consistent access to me? Start with a handful of clients, you know, maybe five of them. Test the model before you kind of dive in full bore. Just see if there’s an interest in a handful of people just willing to pay you just to have access to you.

Lee Kantor: And the key to any type of membership model is thinking about what type of ongoing value you can provide for people that would keep them paying month after month. And that’s something that you always have to kind of keep adjusting and keep adding to. You want to be so valuable and so sticky that they’re not even considering turning off the spigot there.

Lee Kantor: So, if you’re solving a recurring problem or delivering continuous results, then you’ll have the opportunity to kind of leverage a membership model if you play your cards right.

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