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Todd Riesterer with LogicMonitor

November 23, 2020 by angishields

Todd-Riesterer-LogicMonitor
Learning Insights
Todd Riesterer with LogicMonitor
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Todd Riesterer, Chief People Officer at LogicMonitor, has devoted his career to helping leading-edge technology companies scale their business by curating high performance growth cultures.

He has led large global human resources teams for iconic software companies such as VMware, McAfee, Business Objects, and Cadence Design Systems, while more recently taking the Chief People Officer helm at emerging, hyper-growth companies like Kony.

He is a graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. His roots are in Wisconsin proudly wearing the “Cheesehead” banner. He and his wife of many years have three children and a daughter-in-law.

They enjoy boating, being rabid fans of their favorite teams, and participating in all of the fine music and culture Austin has to offer.

Connect with Todd on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Intro: [00:00:01] Broadcasting live from Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for Learning Insights, featuring learning professionals improving performance to drive business results.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:15] Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Learning Insights Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor, TrainingPros. Without them, we could not be sharing these stories. Today on Learning Insights, we have Todd Riesterer with LogicMonitor. Welcome, Todd.

Todd Riesterer: [00:00:32] Thank you. Glad to be here.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:34] Well, before we get too far into things, tell us about LogicMonitor. How are you serving folks?

Todd Riesterer: [00:00:40] So, we are high-growth, hypergrowth actually, cloud-based IT infrastructure monitoring company with an observability platform. So, that’s the official language, but putting it into HR persons’ terms, we help IT teams get awesome visibility and insight into their infrastructure, so they can tell other systems are working and how they can improve them.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:05] So, now, talk about your role as Chief People Officer.

Todd Riesterer: [00:01:11] Yes. So, I lead all of our global people operations around the globe. And we’ve got a couple of different categories. We’ve got the acquisition, talent acquisition machine, where we are bringing in some of the best and brightest. And we’ve got the areas where we are retaining folks, and engaging them, enabling to do their best work from a learning, and development, and comp, and benefits and rewards. And then, we’ve got workplace experience and diversity initiatives to kind of round out all the areas that help us make the people successful in their careers.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:47] So, now, in this kind of a pandemic climate, how has that impacted your role?

Todd Riesterer: [00:01:53] I mean, it’s pretty crazy. They don’t teach this in college and, certainly, something I haven’t experienced in the many years I’ve been doing this. And probably the craziest part was, I think, like almost all companies, technology companies, we kind of made a decision to send everybody to work from home around the globe in nine different countries and offices around the world with about a five-day notice. And so, how do people do their jobs? How do you keep a culture going?  Here we are, nine months later, and still kind of going at it. I mean, it just turned the world on end.

Todd Riesterer: [00:02:29] And so, everything, we kind of figured about how do you engage with your teams and how people engage and do their work had to change overnight. And it has just been fascinating. What a cool thing to see how adaptable and how much perseverance our teams have really to say … use the word agile in product development, I would say our team has proven to be very agile during these times.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:54] And resilient. I mean, a lot of these folks are juggling a lot of things when you say, all of a sudden, now, your home is also your workplace. That’s tough for a lot of people.

Todd Riesterer: [00:03:07] Yeah. And for many years now in the HR community, there’s this word of bringing your whole person to work. And I like to use the word personal-professional harmony. I think it better explains versus work-life balance, which is kind of a traditional term. And it just brought it to the forefront immediately. And the level of empathy, and understanding, and kind of having it forced upon every person in the company, when you see into the senior leaders and the places they work, and you see kids and dogs in the background through every person in the organization, I think that’s been one of the real challenges for people is how you keep a personal-professional harmony alive and well. But to have companies really take a major step forward, understanding and supporting it, it’s certainly here in LM, it’s been something that everyone is proud about and excited about.

Lee Kantor: [00:03:57] Now, you mentioned culture early on. And culture is one of those things. If you’re not intentional and mindful about it, it’s going to form anyway, so you might as well put some effort into it. What are some of the things that LM does in order to kind of have the culture that you’re proud of?

Todd Riesterer: [00:04:15] So, I agree with what you said. I believe wholeheartedly that I would say kind of name and claim it. You’ve got to be purposeful if you want to put your stamp on it because, otherwise, it’ll be very ad hoc and continually evolve and change. It can feel very different in different parts of the organization in the world. And I’ve done this now at a couple of companies. When I joined, I sit down with a great number of people who have been great performers and have been around for a while, and I asked the simple question, why did you come and why did you stay?

Todd Riesterer: [00:04:51] And with that, as well as interviewing the executives, what we want in a company, we put together a kind of three-slide culture story with the headline about who our people are, our values underpinning to it all, and then the different pillars that people highlighted about the few reasons why the best and brightest have come and and chosen to stay. So, we’ve got a really good story that kind of knits everything that we do together around building this, very purposeful about our culture.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:23] So, what are some of the highlights of that story?

Todd Riesterer: [00:05:26] Sure. So, the lead story is that we call our employees LMers. And the definition is a group of brilliant innovators fiercely advancing the future by IT. And that was just the theme that stood out more than anything else as I talked to some of the people who are, again, proven performers, have been around, “Why’d you come?” They’re about innovation, and leading-edge products, and changing an industry. And that’s what we’re doing. So, that’s the headline.

Todd Riesterer: [00:05:54] Our three values that kind of underpin it all are one team, better every day, and customer-obsessed. And I think they’re really cool. I’ve seen most companies, many I’ve been involved, have five, six, seven, eight values. These three serve the purpose and can be really powerful. Everybody remembers them. We weave them into everything we do.

Todd Riesterer: [00:06:14] And then, the five specific pillars that people would call out about what they really like about our culture, and what keeps them here and keeps them on the right path are the people, being around other very smart, passionate people. I believe an iron sharpens iron. And so, that’s a really big reason people stay is they like the tribe they go to work with. Purpose, the purpose we’re up to, again, changing the IT industry. Our product, I alluded that earlier, just truly kind of tip of the spear from a technology perspective. Learning and growth is the fourth one. When you hire best and brightest people who are up to big things in life, we’re on our toes in HR to have to be making sure we’re offering learning opportunities. And then, the last one is shared success. So, we are a pre-IPO company, and we continually are advancing the rewards and recognition to every employee. LMers got stock. So, that’s also a big draw for people. So, that’s the story. In every program we roll out and keep falls into one of these categories.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:18] So, now, you talked about kind of getting better every day. And I’m a big believer in this kind of compounding of little gains over time. How do you measure that though? Because it can be so small and incremental but it’s difficult to measure.

Todd Riesterer: [00:07:34] Yeah. Well, I truly believe in we believe that if you want to, you can only expect what you inspect. So, measurements and data are everything. And I also agree with you that the small wins are the way you kind of build big victories. So, what we’ve done is I take that on two fronts. One is on each individual LMers front, we’re measuring near-term, short-term successes and progress. And then, the company’s front. And obviously, the company will be a result of each LMer every day getting better and accomplishing more.

Todd Riesterer: [00:08:10] So, one of the things we did is we tore out of the annual performance appraisal. It just really doesn’t serve any good. If the company only had to show up once a year and worry about what our results are like, maybe that would be okay. But guess what? We report to boards of directors every quarter and, really, every month, we are measuring things. So, it only makes sense that employees and LMers would be measuring their progress.

Todd Riesterer: [00:08:34] So, we have what we call LMRPs, LMer Readiness Plans. And they are a tool and a forum for every LMer. It’s kind of their contract with their manager about what their goals are, both on a professional basis, doing their job, how they’re doing it better, and a development basis. So, LMRPs are the kind of scorecard of managers. And each LMer, weekly one-on-ones, they’re tracking how they’re doing against the performance goals they’ve got and the development goals. And they both can put comments in there. And it’s kind of taking the Agile, as they talked about earlier, process down to each individual LMer level.

Todd Riesterer: [00:09:13] By the time you get to the end of the year, you’ve got a whole year’s worth of of progress kind of tracked throughout the year. You can add goals, you can delete them, you can close them off. So, it’s really a powerful way to track a day-in, day-out, week-in, week-out progress. And we do the same thing with the company. We’ve got a company scorecard. We report up to the full company once a month on how we’re doing against the key metrics. And then, certainly, every quarter, there’s a more formal report out. So, I think the two really do work well hand in hand, and as you said, help the small wins stack up to big victories over the long run.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:51] Now, how are you guys handling kind of diversity and inclusion? Everybody kind of gives lip service, at least, to diversity and that’s what we strive for. Is there anything in place that is kind of specifically geared towards attracting a more diverse workforce?

Todd Riesterer: [00:10:10] Yeah, it’s obviously kind of a big buzz for a lot of companies. We take great pride in that. We’ve had a culture that’s really built on creating a diverse place that’s respectful of everyone’s beliefs and who they are. But this year, it was a good impetus for us to really look at what we’re doing. And once again, become more purposeful, become more strategic, and get aligned on how we’re really ensuring that our workplace is a place that moves the needle and is a place that we’ve got very diverse thinking. I absolutely believe and we’ve always believed here that successful companies don’t just major in diversity, and equality and inclusion because it’s the right thing, which it is, and also because it is what drives business results.

Todd Riesterer: [00:11:07] And what we did when we got more purposeful, we kind of decided we’re going to go at this in two ways. One is empowering our LMers to kind of move the needle. So, we’ve got learning opportunities, ongoing education, unconscious bias training, we’re bringing outside speakers, we have community groups, many community groups that people can participate in with their peers, race issues, to have a dialogue, people of color is one, Women at LM is another, and Pride is the third. Those are three of our big ones, including LM Care Philanthropy group. So, there’s about three or four that we have about 30%, about a third of our LMers are actively involved in. And so, that’s the first branch is empowering our LMers to learn, participate and impact change.

Todd Riesterer: [00:11:55] Then, the second one is what can we, as a company, do to create opportunity for underrepresented groups who are battling equality? So, what we’ve done there is on the recruiting front, in addition to, of course, trying to become a workplace that is very comfortable, and respectful, and inclusive that people of all different underrepresented groups want to work at, we also decided that technology as a whole needs a significant number of increased people coming into the workforce from these underrepresented groups.

Todd Riesterer: [00:12:30] So, we’ve partnered with Code College, an awesome organization based in Austin, that introduces high school students actually from underrepresented groups, really specifically people of color, as well as women, into technology careers very early. And Internxt is an intern program that Vista, our owners, have introduced. And we have a significant number of interns that we brought on through them and we convert to full-time. So, both empowering LMers to make a difference in their communities and their day-in day-lives and the company itself creating opportunities.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:05] Well, kudos to you, because a lot of hypergrowth companies just don’t kind of make the time to invest in those underrepresented groups like that. And hats off because that’s important, and you’re role-modeling that behavior for other up and coming hypergrowth companies that is possible and it’s worth doing.

Todd Riesterer: [00:13:30] Yeah, well, thank you for that. And again, I do think we’re values-based company. Vista, certainly, our owners, are extremely big in in creating opportunities, and our executive team is. And I would just say, again, that we 100% believe it is what helps drive value in an organization. So, we do it because it’s the right thing and because a diverse workforce is a key enabler to business success.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:58] So, now, any advice for the young people out there, maybe your potential employees, like what should they be doing to get on your radar, to get kind of plugged into your world, and kind of join your team?

Todd Riesterer: [00:14:11] Yes. So, certainly, obviously, be looking for our website and other places that we post jobs. And if we don’t have a job posted, people can apply and make contact with their talent acquisition team. We are always out proactively trying to make conversations and build networks of of talented people from all levels of experience and walks of life. So, I would say that’s number one. And be keeping up to date on our industry and our website. We just had a big product release. Understand what this infrastructure monitoring space looks like and how it’s evolving. It’s a fast-moving, one of the most exciting places in technology to be working right now. So, stay up to date on that.

Todd Riesterer: [00:14:59] And then, the two things that we kind of use as a moniker on here about what we look for is skill and will. Skill and will. It’s got a nice ring to it and it happens to work. So, I’d encourage everybody to think about what skills are you building, what are you adding to your repertoire that you can offer to a company around learning about technology, learning about whatever your area of focus is. If it’s HR, or if it’s engineering, or marketing, keep adding to your skills, take classes, go to seminars. And then, will, display in your personal life and, certainly, in your professional life going above and beyond and the desire to be passionately making yourself better. If you keep doing those things and reach out to us, I’m sure there’s a fit because we are scaling and growing our workforce by about a third every year.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:51] So, now, how has this kind of work-from-home environment and this remote environment impacted the way that you onboard somebody, and then kind of immerse them in your culture?

Todd Riesterer: [00:16:05] Yeah, it’s a great question because as you might imagine, we can all guess, it’s a real challenge. And I think we’ve known for years or centuries that people learn best and gain energy and commitment when they are physically in communication stronger, when we’re face to face with each other and with each other physically. So, can you remove that? On the spur of the moment back in March, feels like way back when, you kind of have to rethink all of that. So, certainly, using tools and technology as everybody else. Zoom and Slack has been really key for us. And we run different courses. Day-long sessions aren’t going to make it. You can’t expect somebody to be on Zoom for a day. So, you put the learnings into more bite-sized pieces and kind of scatter them up through the first couple of weeks.

Todd Riesterer: [00:17:06] And you have to intersperse. And we’ve gotten very creative with online kind of games and events to have people socialize with each other and get to know each other more. And it really has been, again, I’d say, a much more purposeful kind of bite-size pieces of different events, and learning, and training curriculum, and much more conversational like we’re doing here versus everybody showing up the first two days on the job, and in a big classroom, and going through one PowerPoint slide after another. So, in some ways, it’s a better way to really kind of get somebody indoctrinated. But I tell you, we still are missing the human-to-human contact and the energy that comes from that.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:49] Now, have you figured out a way to kind of replicate some of the look-over-your-shoulder or be-a-fly-on-the-wall-in-a-room while something else is happening, and then going back and debriefing, and creating those kind of serendipitous learning opportunities?

Todd Riesterer: [00:18:07] Yeah, it’s a real challenge for sure. And again, I’d say we go back and use the tools and technology that exist. And we do use Zoom conference calls, and some teams kind of stay on them for extended periods of time as they’re going through to kind of shadows, as I think you’re alluding to, somebody else. We use phone technology when we’ve got people making customer calls and new people coming in who are doing business development or sales to be able to kind of patch in with more experienced folks who are leading the charge.

Todd Riesterer: [00:18:43] And then, we’re better at doing kind of perception debriefs. So, normally, you kind of have a learning session, and people go on, and maybe you would have them fill out a survey, how helpful was that? Once again, we have to kind of schedule a half hour or more and talk through after a learning session or somebody shadowing and purposely ask them, “What did you learn? What were the key things that you observed? And how are you going to bring that back and make yourself better?”

Todd Riesterer: [00:19:14] So, again, I just say – and this is I think a positive – is being more planful in really thinking through how best people learn and how we can try to replicate that versus the easier route, in some ways, is just showing up and, “Hey, go sit by Sally, go sit by Jim, and watch what they’re doing,” and hope there’s some osmosis that goes on.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:36] Right. You have to be more intentional and you have to just keep having conversations. I mean, I think this is actually creating more conversations because you have to. You have to do it on purpose. You can’t just run into them and think, “Oh, I’ll get to it later.” Like you have to schedule it and make it happen.

Todd Riesterer: [00:19:56] Yeah, that’s exactly right. And I think we went through an evolution there too. Everybody went home, kind of turned on a dime. And so, then, we quickly figured out we need to schedule a whole bunch of this dialogue, and everybody is showing up to everything. And then, losing track of time here, a little bit a month or six weeks, I’m like, “Okay, there’s definitely Zoom overload at this point.” And so, then, we kind of had to settle in and figure out which sessions tend to work best for the times and how much time can people really spend on Zoom versus being off camera and doing their work.

Lee Kantor: [00:20:33] Right, yeah. I think we’re all kind of learning together in this. Now, for you, what’s the most rewarding part of the job?

Todd Riesterer: [00:20:44] Ultimately, I get really excited about two things. Certainly, I won’t try to age myself here, but I’m in the second half of my career. And when I’ve gotten to kind of this position, it becomes much less about what how to advance my career and what’s the next big mountain to climb. Personally, what gets me really excited, and it’s a lot of fun, is really pretty simple, and that’s company success and other employees’ success. I love showing up every day and being part of a bigger cause, and everybody does, and having a company that knows how to kind of measure customer satisfaction as customer obsession is very real here. And customers continuing to buy more, which they do every day. Do they like what we put out? And are we creating new products? Like a big rollout we just had yesterday of our logs. And what are customers saying about that? And are we meeting our financial metrics? So, watching that in and a company our size be able to pinpoint, “Yeah, myself and my team, we played a part in that. Big or small, we played a part in that.”

Todd Riesterer: [00:21:59] And then, the other piece is I’ve been fortunate to feel good about the success I’ve had in my career and accomplish a lot of my goals. I really enjoy helping other people. And that’s what keeps me energized in HR. I mean, in some ways, I’m kind of doing the same thing as I did the first days I started in HR in the beginning of my career, but to see new people that you meet at every company and in every department, and create career paths, and learning opportunities, and promotions, and recognition for people, it’s really fulfilling to have a part in being an HR professional. And kind of my own team’s career success and advancement, as well as those in other parts of the business.

Lee Kantor: [00:22:44] Now, as the chief people officer, I’m sure you’ve impacted lots of people in your career. Can you share a story maybe that you were working with somebody, maybe mentoring somebody, and you were able to help them get to the next level?

Todd Riesterer: [00:22:59] Yeah. I, certainly, wouldn’t put names out there, but for much of my career, I spent and was living in Silicon Valley and working in larger companies that were kind of becoming even larger than that. In about six years ago, I took a turn and started working at some pre-IPO more emerging companies. I like to stay where the clay is still soft on culture. And if they don’t show up every day, you matter. And so, the pivot for me, at that point, amongst many pivot’s going from big company, all these resources, a bunch of very seasoned, experienced people around the globe to going to an earlier stage company where there’s a lot more junior folks coming in who, every day, were kind of learning, it forced me to pivot too and have to kind of go back to my roots in the early days.

Todd Riesterer: [00:23:51] And there’s a couple of folks … and I would just use the term again, I really looked for skill and will the potential, the ability, the problem-solving ability, and the skills of knowing their craft, and then the desire to do better things and constantly learn. And there’s been a couple of folks now that have worked for me at a couple of different companies and tried to give them opportunities beyond maybe what their experience level would have dictated they were able to do. Have kind of gone out of my way to bridge geographical divides with folks. And if somebody somebody’s sitting in Europe, give them global jobs, somebody in India that was on the team I led that we gave a global job to, and that kind of worked on projects or had responsibility outside of of her own country.

Todd Riesterer: [00:24:45] And it’s just really, really exciting to see, and it’s kind of giving me a resurgence in life to go back to a team that is more in the early stages of their career, where every day is a learning opportunity, and to try to figure out. It’s probably one of the biggest parts of my job is how can I help them stretch and gain experiences beyond what their experience would maybe dictate versus, again, the bigger companies where you got a whole bunch of people who are my experience level and beyond.

Lee Kantor: [00:25:14] Well, I think it’s important to take a moment to appreciate that because the impact you’re having on those individuals impact their family and it could impact their community. I mean, it’s a big deal. And I think that we don’t spend enough time just taking moments and appreciating that kind of work because the ripples that happen from that that you may not even be aware of.

Todd Riesterer: [00:25:38] Yeah, and I think it’s a great point. And I would just say I feel so blessed because I had those mentors early in my career. I can still name them and still have relationships with them. Obviously, not giving last names, but Joe, Jonathan, Scott and Matt, four folks, some in HR, some in other lines of business that I worked with. The second job out of college that I ended up working with multiple times in my career as I would kind of follow them. And for whatever reason, they took an interest in helping me learn, and stretch, and grow. And they did that in many, many ways. Into this day, I’m personal kind of friends with them, and some other ways we’ve gotten to know each other. So, it’s just huge. I can’t imagine without those four individuals having taking chances on me how different my life would be. So, it’s kind of only fair, isn’t I?

Lee Kantor: [00:26:29] Absolutely.

Todd Riesterer: [00:26:29] You get to experience it yourself.

Lee Kantor: [00:26:32] Yeah. I think that’s important that we should be thinking of others, and serving, and helping the next group up. I mean, that’s part of our responsibility as part of this hive of humanity that we’re part of. Now, for you, what can we be doing to help you? What does LogicMonitor need more of now? Do you need more talent? I know you’re growing rapidly, so you’re probably always on the lookout for great folks. Do you need more clients? You’re all over the place. So, what can we be doing to help you?

Todd Riesterer: [00:27:05] Yeah. Obviously, you’ve hit on two big ones. And more talent is the area that I’m obviously focused on. So, we’ve got a very high bar. We have every individual coming into our business has to pass kind of a problem solving and competency assessment that’s done to keep the high bar. And so, we can’t get enough talent coming in. There’s a lot of people that aren’t able to pass; and therefore, wouldn’t be employed with us. So, really kind of high-achieving people with high intellect, and problem-solving ability, and competency. So, we can never have enough of them. As I said, we’re growing our population by a third every year. So, that’s really near and dear to my heart.

Todd Riesterer: [00:27:54] And customers, of course. We always have customers. The cool thing is we sell to any company of any size in any industry. Always need more. But without getting into details, our business has also been phenomenal and the interest in our products are phenomenal as well too. So, we are really pleased with the number we have there.

Todd Riesterer: [00:28:15] And I think the third area, then, back to talent, which is what you’re about, is how do we help people grow and progress? And I think when you get high achievers, there’s insatiable appetite so many times for people to want to make themselves better. So, continuing to have leading-edge ways that people can grow their personal and professional skills is really important. Days of kind of showing up in classrooms as the primary way of learning, I think, are long gone and not the most effective way to do it. So, how do we keep growing the smart, intelligent, highly productive and passionate people once we get them on board?

Lee Kantor: [00:28:57] Well, if somebody wanted to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on your team, or just get to know LogicMonitor. What’s the website and the coordinates?

Todd Riesterer: [00:29:07] So, I strongly suggest you could find us on LinkedIn and/or our company’s website, and it’s simply www.logicmonitor.com. And there’s a careers page there that you can find out a whole bunch about our culture and what we’re doing, as well as read the areas of our business, press releases, and some of the other information we have there. And then, there’s the contact information based in those pages as well about how to get in touch with us.

Lee Kantor: [00:29:36] Well, Todd, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you.

Todd Riesterer: [00:29:41] Well, thank you very much. Same with you.

Lee Kantor: [00:29:43] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you next time on Learning Insights. And remember, this work would not be possible without the support of our sponsor, TrainingPros. Please support them, so we can continue to share these important stories.

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November 23, 2020 by angishields

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Pulse Secure provides easy, comprehensive software-driven Secure Access solutions that provide visibility and seamless, protected connectivity between users, devices, things, and services. Our suites uniquely integrate cloud, mobile, application, and network access to enable hybrid IT in a Zero Trust world.

Today, more than 80% of the Fortune 500 and over 20,000 enterprises (and 18M end-points) and service providers across every vertical entrust Pulse Secure to empower their mobile workforce to securely access applications and information in the data center and cloud while ensuring business compliance.

Joyeta-Samanta-Pulse-SecureJoyeta Samanta, Director of Talent Success at Pulse Secure, lives and breathes talent success.

She is passionate about solving complex problems, enabling change, developing talent and growing organizations through employee engagement, employer branding, talent acquisition, bridging data analytics with cultural trends and innovating on policies and programs at scale.

Connect with Joyeta on LinkedIn and follow Pulse Secure on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter.

Transcript

Intro: [00:00:01] Broadcasting live from Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for Learning Insights, featuring learning professionals improving performance to drive business results.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:15] Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Learning Insights. And it’s important to recognize our sponsor at TrainingPros. We could not be sharing these stories without their support. Today, only Learning Insights. We have Joy Samanta with Pulse Secure. Welcome, Joy.

Joy Samanta: [00:00:31] Hi, Lee. How are you doing?

Lee Kantor: [00:00:33] I am doing well. Before we get too far into things, tell us about Pulse Secure. How are you serving folks?

Joy Samanta: [00:00:40] So, Pulse Secure is a network security company. We started out six years ago. We provide easy, comprehensive, software-driven secure access solutions for B2B companies, helping them to really increase their employee productivity.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:58] And then, how did you get involved with the company?

Joy Samanta: [00:01:01] That’s a great question. My journey started on day one with Pulse, actually. Pulse divested from Juniper Networks, and I interviewed there. I joined Pulse. It was an exciting place to be. We were building out a company from just a product. And my journey started six years ago.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:18] And then, you’re the Director of Talent Success. What does that job entail?

Joy Samanta: [00:01:23] Basically, that job is a complicated title for simply saying that I ran the HR department. And so, we do a lot of fun things, partnering with the different leaders across various different functions, driving, learning and development, internal communications, and so much more. Just talent acquisition and total awards for our employees at Pulse.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:48] Now, how important is the culture to your organization?

Joy Samanta: [00:01:55] Honestly, it is our number one priority. And it starts with our CEO, who is very, very big on culture, values and drives most decisions and outcomes through those. So, I think it’s absolutely critical.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:11] Now, as being involved in the HR and you hear leadership tell you how important it is, how do you kind of take that messaging and that intent, and spread it throughout the organization? What are some things you can do and maybe some advice you can share for others that are in a similar position where leadership’s saying, “Hey, we want to invest in our culture. We want to have a culture we’re proud of that does the right things”? So, how do you take that information, and then kind of deploy it out to the folks in the front lines?

Joy Samanta: [00:02:43] That’s a great question. I think, and having worked with several different organizations and several different leaders, what I realized is having a clear sense of vision and communicating it repeatedly to employees, what it means, how do you embed those cultures in everything you do, how you collaborate, how you communicate, how you drive performance, but really tying every aspect of the business success to those culture and values is critical.

Joy Samanta: [00:03:12] For example, at Pulse, our values are about delighting customers, and having implicit trust, and winning together as a team. And so, for everything we do, whether it’s internal customers, external customers, we really want to be very solution-minded, focused on driving delight for our customers. We work in an environment where there is such a mutual accountability and we do have implicit trust with our co-workers and the people we work with. And the last of it is winning together as a team. We’re really focused on collaborating and all different aspects. For example, our leaders host Ask-Me-Anythings every ordinate week where every question is fair game, and they answer based on the questions that get uploaded. And so, just having that environment where the leaders are driving and are open to questions, listening to the employees is super critical.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:07] Now, how do you kind of measure success of something like that?

Joy Samanta: [00:04:13] We see how people become way more inclusive and iterative in their thinking and planning. And you can actually, I think, measure it in how aligned people are at the end of it because they’re all driving towards the same mission based on the same values. And so, I mean, that’s how we measure productivity and performance. And every time we do quarterly assessments from an HR standpoint, when managers are driving these conversations with employees, it’s really measured across those core values. But I think we have really high engagement scores because of it. That’s one way to measure it. We have very low attrition rates. And so, those are, again, things on how we measure the values and how people align themselves to it.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:05] Now, when you’re onboarding a new employee, how has that changed because of the pandemic and the reliance now maybe on more work-from-home environment?

Joy Samanta: [00:05:17] So, our products, our biggest product, VPN, helps employees around the world work remotely. And so, we have onboarded more than 200 people just during this pandemic. And fortunately, been one of those companies who have paid out bonuses at 150% and really not had to have any layoffs. And so, when we onboard people, people know that they are really partnering with an organization or coming to an organization that’s helping everybody work remotely. And so, day one, every single process that we do is virtually through Microsoft Teams, or Zoom, and so on. We have a buddy system. We have HR teams, IT teams, shipping laptops, but everybody comes together. But they also know that this is what we do as a business. And so, it’s very in line with every single action we do to drive remote access.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:10] Now, what’s some advice for the folks who aren’t as good at it as you to maybe kind of help them through this in a way that gives them some level of comfort and is effective as well? Because for some folks, this is a new thing. They hadn’t had to rely on work from home, and it’s forcing them to do this now, and maybe they don’t feel as comfortable or as confident. What are some of the kind of low-hanging fruit in order to make this a smooth process?

Joy Samanta: [00:06:43] So, regardless of whether you’ve been a remote employee or not, people struggle with it because it’s ongoing, and it’s been so for a very long time, and everybody is remote. One of the small things I think people can do is stop apologizing for every time there is a distraction of their kids playing in the background their pets climbing up. I mean, everybody understands that. Try as much to be on video. I think it’s exhausting, and people do have fatigue on facing a camera for eight hours a day, but wherever possible, build that connection, at least, for all the one-on-ones that you have to really get to know the person beyond video.

Joy Samanta: [00:07:24] And I would say, you don’t have to be ready. like, all dressed up or such. People understand what situation everybody is experiencing. And so, be real, be genuine, and it’s okay to struggle through it. Most people are. These times, uncertain as they are, everybody’s doing the best they can, and really trying to be open and genuine about it is probably what I would recommend.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:55] And it sounds like, also, to give people some grace because it is challenging for everybody, and it shouldn’t be something that we’re all paranoid of every noise, or sound, or your like you said, your kid dropping something or the dog barking. I mean, we’re all kind of in this together.

Joy Samanta: [00:08:14] Yes, exactly.

Lee Kantor: [00:08:16] Now, any advice for the young person who maybe just graduated college and is trying to get a job? And it seems like everything is now remote, and they’re doing the best they can to be kind of noticed and found. What are some activities that catch your eye with young talent?

Joy Samanta: [00:08:34] I think one of the things I’ve seen quite a few, we have a very strong internship program. And so, a lot of the students coming in looking for jobs, they’re very enthusiastic. They have bright ideas. And I think that’s super critical to share. Networking through very many virtual events. We host several different webinars and conferences that they can engage in. And I would recommend that young people use LinkedIn or other platforms that they have to share what their journey is, what their dream jobs are. People are out there to help, but they should definitely reach out to as many people in their networks as possible to help. And being patient and positive is the most critical thing. And it doesn’t matter if you’re a young person, or an older person, or people going through M&A, or change and losing jobs, I think being just patient through it and positive is super critical.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:28] And then, what is the pain that your clients are having where Pulse Secure is the solution?

Joy Samanta: [00:09:36] Honestly, we started this Pulse Cares thing in May, where we were giving out software licenses for people to try it out. And now, that they have tried it, and they love it, they won many, many, many devices to support their employees and so on around the world. And so, what they’re struggling with, I think, is scalability. And we, from our products, are definitely helping with both supportability and scalability of our products right now to help with our customers.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:05] And that helps you stand out?

Joy Samanta: [00:10:08] Yes, definitely. And our customer success teams are brilliant, and they’re 24×7 located all over the world. And I think that’s super helpful to the customers at this point and very reliable. So, we have had a lot of customers switch over from other competitors to Pulse because of the reliability, and the predictability, and stability of our products.

Lee Kantor: [00:10:29] Now, as this year is kind of coming to a close, what are some of the things you’re looking forward to? And also, what are some of the things you’re forecasting because it seems like this would be a tricky kind of environment to be forecasting into next year?

Joy Samanta: [00:10:46] Definitely tricky, a lot of uncertain elements. I would say, what we’re most looking forward to, so we’re coming up on the holiday season, and Pulse as a community does a lot for our local and global community. So, one thing we’re really looking forward to is our Giving Day, as well as appreciation event. Our appreciation event is internally for Pulsers, and our Giving Day is externally for our community. So, super enthusiastic because, every year, our employees and leaders go above and beyond and surprise us with how much they can do. So, sharing those stories is something we’re definitely looking forward to.

Joy Samanta: [00:11:24] In terms of planning for 2021, we do the best we can in terms of having a lot of variables and assumptions in the books, keeping a little bit of buffer. And we do realize that the growth that we have during this pandemic is not sustainable longer term, but planning around ways to diversify across our various products and still continue on the extraordinary growth path.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:55] So, now, for you, what’s the most rewarding part of your job?

Joy Samanta: [00:12:02] And this should be easy. The most rewarding part of my job is driving change in people’s behaviors, somehow helping people think in a different way, and making a small or a big impact in whichever community we’re serving. And I think that’s been the most amazing part. Even helping interns get full-time jobs or giving interns their full internships successfully. They’re all rewarding parts of my job.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:31] Now, can you share a story where maybe you took somebody under your wing, maybe mentored them and helped them get to the next level or maybe somebody on your team has done that?

Joy Samanta: [00:12:41] Yeah, definitely. I think it was two years ago, one of the interns we had was part of the operations team. And I, myself, was part of an operations team maybe six or seven years ago, and then transitioned HR. And having told my story and mentored them through it to understand the business comprehensively and not just from one particular department and division, they ended up moving to marketing and driving marketing operations. And that story and that change that they could see something comprehensively across the business and drive meaningful impact where they can truly see what they’re doing and the results immediately after, driving them towards that I think was fascinating and something I’m super proud of to be able to help with that.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:33] Yeah, it’s amazing the impact people can make on other people. And sometimes, you don’t take a moment to really appreciate that.

Joy Samanta: [00:13:41] Yeah, exactly. And people may not have thought about it if they didn’t have that conversation, if they didn’t watch other people do it and learn from it. So, I think it’s really important that we continue the conversations where people’s eyes are open to something completely different.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:58] And then, like you said earlier, it’s kind of the leadership really drives the culture. And then, the culture, if you have a strong culture, really kind of creates more leaders. So, it’s this kind of win-win-win all the way around.

Joy Samanta: [00:14:13] Absolutely. I think more and more leaders across the world are realizing that culture, the role of HR is super, super critical. It’s not an afterthought. It’s not just a support function. Yes. But it’s slowly changing for the better.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:28] And it’s one of those things that if you’re not intentional and mindful about it, there’s going to be a culture anyway. So, you might as well put some energy into shaping it in the direction you’d like it to be.

Joy Samanta: [00:14:39] Exactly, absolutely.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:41] So, now, if somebody wanted to learn more about Pulse Secure, what is the best way to find you or somebody on your team?

Joy Samanta: [00:14:50] I think just going to our website, pulsesecure.net, or if they’re interested in learning more about it, they can email careers@pulsesecure.net, and we’d be happy to help.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:01] Now, what do you need more of right now? Are you looking for more talent?

Joy Samanta: [00:15:06] So, Lee, honestly, we are coming up close on a possible acquisition by Avanti. So, we, right now, are continuing to do business as usual, help our customers, not hiding as we were a month ago. We had almost a hundred open recs, but we are just preparing as we can for the acquisition, as well as helping our customers at this time.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:33] Well, congratulations on all your success.

Joy Samanta: [00:15:36] Thank you so much, Lee.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:37] And thank you for sharing your story today.

Joy Samanta: [00:15:40] Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: [00:15:40] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We will see you all next time on Learning Insights. Remember, this work could not be done without the support of our sponsor, TrainingPros. Please support them, so we can continue to share these important stories.

[00:16:02] Although we go down, down, down.

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Tagged With: Pulse Secure

Dr. Ted Smith and Dr. Phillip Allison, Park Cities Dental Group

November 23, 2020 by John Ray

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Dental Business Radio
Dr. Ted Smith and Dr. Phillip Allison, Park Cities Dental Group
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Dr. Ted Smith and Dr. Phillip Allison, Park Cities Dental Group (“Dental Business Radio, ” Episode 9)

Dr. Ted Smith and Dr. Phillip Allison, Chief Doctors and Partners in Park Cities Dental Group, join host Patrick O’Rourke to share their journey in buying and building their practice, working together as partners, their experience with the Pankey Institute, what’s happened with their practice during the pandemic, and much more. “Dental Business Radio” is underwritten and presented by Practice Quotient: PPO Negotiations & Analysis and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Park Cities Dental Group

Since 1982, the friendly and experienced staff at Park Cities Dental Group has accommodated all of the cosmetic and general dentistry needs of our clients in a warm and inviting setting in the heart of Dallas, overlooking the Katy Trail. Come in and you will find a group of highly trained dentists and staff that will provide the dental care services you need with the personal attention you’re looking for.

Dr. Ted Smith, DDS, FICOI

Dr. Ted Smith provides general and cosmetic dentistry services such as crowns, bridges, dental implants, porcelain veneers and fillings, as well as extractions and TMJ treatment. He is also a Certified Provider of Invisalign orthodontics.

Dr. Smith completed post-doctorate education at The Pankey Institute and earned his Fellowship in the International Congress of Oral Implantologists after training at the renowned Misch Institute. With an emphasis on patient comfort, artistic craftmanship and post-procedural care, this advanced training puts him as one of the top in the nation and one of only a few cosmetic dentists in Dallas to have earned this distinction.

A native of Austin, Dr. Smith graduated from Westwood High School and The University of Texas at Austin. He went on to earn his Doctor of Dental Surgery from Baylor College of Dentistry. Dr. Smith joined Park Cities Dental Group immediately after graduation and continued his education with post-graduate training in cosmetic, restorative and implant dentistry. His mission is to provide exceptional dental health services to his community and the surrounding Dallas area. He lives in University Park with his wife and four daughters.

The entire team at Park Cities Dental Group thanks you for taking the time to learn about our dental practice. Cosmetic dentistry is a big decision and we offer free consultations to answer any questions you may have so you feel comfortable and knowledgeable about your visit.

Dr. Ted Smith is a member of The American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, American Dental Association, Texas Dental Association and Dallas County Dental Society and holds himself to the highest standards of the practice of dentistry.

Dr. Phillip Allison, DDS

Dr. Phillip Allison provides general and cosmetic dentistry services such as crowns, bridges, dental implants, porcelain veneers and fillings, as well as extractions and TMJ treatment. He is also a Preferred Provider of Invisalign orthodontics. He is committed to the best possible dental care for his patients.

Born and raised in Midland, Texas, Dr. Allison graduated from Midland High School. He attended The University of Texas at Austin, where he earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Biology before moving to Dallas to attend Baylor College of Dentistry. Dr. Allison graduated from Baylor in 1999 and immediately began work as an associate dentist for a local practice. In 2002, Dr. Allison established his own practice in Dallas, and for the next 11 years he built a thriving business.In the fall of 2013 Dr. Allison partnered with Dr. Smith at Park Cities Dental Group. Dr. Allison and Dr. Smith are longtime friends and classmates from Baylor College of Dentistry.

Dr. Allison has dedicated numerous hours to continuing education and professional development since he began his dental career. He is certified by the prestigious Pankey Institute in Key Biscayne, Florida and is a member of the distinguished ITI (International Team for Implantology), a worldwide collaborative focusing on clinical excellence in implant dentistry. Dr. Allison is one of a few Preferred Providers of Invisalign Orthodontics in the Dallas Metroplex. He also partners with area orthodontists to ensure his patients receive the best and most comprehensive orthodontic care available.

Dr. Allison is a member of the American Dental Association, Texas Dental Association and Dallas County Dental Society. He lives in University Park with his wife and two children.

Show Transcript

Intro: [00:00:03] Live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, it’s time for Dental Business Radio. Brought to you by Practice Quotient. Practice Quotient bridges the gap between the provider and payer communities. Now, here’s your host, Patrick O’Rourke.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:00:19] Hi there, friends of the dental industry. This is Patrick O’Rourke, your host of Dental Business Radio. And we want to thank you for joining us today. If you do like the show, please remember to rate it what we deserve. And we  want to thank our sponsor, Practice Quotient. They’re a national firm that specializes in PPO negotiations and analysis.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:00:43] And I am thrilled to welcome some folks from Texas. So, we have Ted Smith and Phillip Allison. This is going to be the Ted and Phillip Show – all right – featuring these gentlemen that are out of Dallas, Texas but, more specifically, Park Cities. They’re with Park Cities Dental Group. And Park Cities is a bit of a special place, I’m told. Ted, would you like to elaborate? Tell me why Park Cities is a special place.

Ted Smith: [00:01:15] Sure. Park Cities, I mean, it’s truly Dallas, but it’s little bubble right in the middle of Dallas, right by SMU, if anybody knows Dallas. But we’re fortunate to have friends and patients come from all over Dallas and, really, all over Texas. But Park Cities, Phillip and I’s lids have gone to the schools here in the Park Cities, and we live 10 minutes away from the practice. Big fan of a short commute. And so, it’s a big city but still got the small-town vibe to it in the Park Cities.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:01:56] Gotcha. And Phillip, anything else to add about Park Cities? I would imagine, there’s pretty cool parks there or might just need flipping.

Phillip Allison: [00:02:08] A lot of parks. A lot of parks, yeah. It’s pretty residential. It’s small. I mean, I think there’s two towns. And maybe total between the two, 30,000 to 40,000 people, but it’s right in the middle of the city. So, we’ve got our own school district. So, there’s not a lot of population growth but we’re kind of right on the edge of it. And there’s two business centers, commercial centers. Everything else is home. So, our practice is on one of the major freeways, just off of it. So, we can draw from this. It’s a pretty tight knit community. A lot of referrals from within because the schools drive the whole place. But then, we’re right on the freeway between the bedroom areas and downtown. So, people coming in and out of work, that’s an easy pit stop for them one way or the other.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:03:04] Gotcha. And you guys are involved too in the civic community or you must be popular because you’ve won some awards that’s voted on by residents in that area and some of the local publications as Top Doc or Favorite Dentist of the magazine. How does that happen?

Phillip Allison: [00:03:27] Well, you know-

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:03:29] Charm? Charm and good lucks, Phillip?

Ted Smith: [00:03:31] Sure, I’ll go with that.

Phillip Allison: [00:03:31] Well, yeah. I think from my end, we’re general dentistry. And so, we really don’t do specialist procedures. We’ve got a great group of specialty offices that we work with. And a lot of that voting is done by peers. So, we kind of hand it over to the rest of the folks around that we work with. And I think, they have recognized us and us them because Dallas is pretty big. There’s a lot of dentists up here. So, we try to keep a good relationship with the specialists. I think that helps with our visibility.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:04:16] There’s got to be other general dentists too that are voting, and you guys are still winning. That says a lot. So, this is not necessarily even a patient thing. This is like a peer-reviewed award in some respects. It’s what it sounds like.

Ted Smith: [00:04:34] Yeah, the magazine is strictly peer reviewed. And that makes it special, obviously, when your peers, your colleagues think highly of you.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:04:45] That’s awesome.

Ted Smith: [00:04:45] And like Phillip mentioned, we developed relationships and networks with our specialists that are great. And the patients, they love going to them and have confidence in them. And we’ve been around 21 years. So, you just learn over the years, and try to just treat people the way you’d want to be treated.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:05:08] Right. Do it. Do attack this way. So, how did you guys end up become as business partners?

Ted Smith: [00:05:16] So, we were classmates in dental school, class of ’99. We went to Baylor College of Dentistry here in Dallas. And then, Phillip was practicing up the highway a couple miles, and I had two older partners. And one retired in 2013 and the other one a couple of years later, but in 2013. So, we had this opportunity because we’d always been great friends, and classmates, and buddies ever since. And we’re like, “It makes sense to partner up.” I think Phillip can speak more about being a solo. And I had the group practice and saw the dynamics that can happen there, the benefits of having more than one provider in the place. And so, it made perfect sense. And seven years later, it’s been fun. It’s fun to work with your buddies.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:06:16] Yeah, for sure. It’s important. Partnerships, it’s like a marriage in a lot of ways.

Ted Smith: [00:06:23] Absolutely.

Phillip Allison: [00:06:23] Yeah.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:06:24] So, Phillip, care to expand on that, kind of going at it on your own versus the collegial type atmosphere?

Phillip Allison: [00:06:32] Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s a real contrast. I mean, I’ve seen both sides. And in their current setup, it probably couldn’t have happened earlier. I mean, we had both looked for other places to practice, and the timing just kind of ended up being right. I’ve kind of done all of them. I started out, I was an employee associate right at a school. And then, I worked to man the office of a guy who owned the practice but didn’t work there after that. Then, I finished out a space, started a practice from scratch after that. That was when I was ready to go out on my own.

Phillip Allison: [00:07:23] And I learned a lot about construction, not a lot about dentistry. About six months into it, a broker called me and said, “Hey, I’ve found a practice for you.” Timing was not good because I had just finished installing stuff. The carpet was still fresh. And so, I’ve got this practice but didn’t have patients in it. So, I said, “Okay, I’ll buy that instead.” These days the stories are of the new dentists that every stop along their path would have been a new practice that they had acquired or started up. I was really just hopping from one to the next.

Phillip Allison: [00:08:01] So, I sold my newly finished out spot, went over to this practice that have been around for several years. And that’s where I really sat. So, that was still solo, one office. I have one of each, one hygienist, and one assistant, one front desk, and worked there for about twelve years. And everything’s got pros and cons, but after a while I just saw the cons. Just some based on the growth that I wasn’t seeing, and just the other stresses. Like you could you could really fine tune the place when it’s so small and run well. But when there’s a kink, when your front desk is is on vacation, and you got to get a cordless phone to answer the phone when it rings or lock the front door because people will walk in without knowing, you start looking for another way to do stuff.

Phillip Allison: [00:08:56] And that’s just the tip of a very large iceberg of reasons why Ted’s practice was like, you can’t really just go get into a partnership with anyone. That’s the key. So, it’s not necessarily great advice to just say, “Hey, find someone and buddy up with them,” because that part’s got to work more than just the numbers. And so, when this came up, it was kind of like one in a million. And practices sell under the cloak of darkness. The staff is kind of like, “Why is everything getting counted? And what are all these phone calls?” And you can’t really be open with it, and you can’t tell your patient base as much. And it’s like, “Boom!” And I just showed up one day, and it was just like the place just exploded. My chairs, while my charts to cut rolls, it’s all filling the halls. They must have been dying when I showed up. So, it settled out. It was a little bit of a time but it was the path that it was the way it should be. I’m super happy that it happened.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:10:08] Sure, transitions are tricky. I probably have this conversation on a daily basis with folks, and they’re like, “All right. Well, I just started a practice that morning, and we need to be credentialed, and we want, really, this scheduled by Monday.” And that’s not going to happen. And then, I have to to do, explain kind of the birds and the bees. There’s always turbulence in any type of transition. So, let’s go back to when you’re the solo dentist, I got a kick out of that though. Locking your door and buying the cordless phone, they didn’t teach you that in dental school.

Phillip Allison: [00:10:48] No, no. There were some logistics that were kind of overlooked. And so, yeah. And that was in a strip center. And so, it was fine. I mean, sometimes, we just get people to come in there, and they want a place to hang out for a while, and maybe they’re not even shopping. So, maybe they just want to sit there. And I’ve had grocery carts in the lobby of the office. I mean, what it needed was growth, and that’s the one thing I wasn’t getting. And so, I would fantasize and say, “Man, if I get my production numbers to keep going and get the mix of procedures that I really like, then the place is so manageable. Wouldn’t it be awesome?” Well, I mean, it would be but it just didn’t happen. So, I gave it good college try and realized. And that was really about the time where the shift from there was monarch, which I don’t know how nationwide they stressed. It’s a publicly traded-

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:12:03] Group practice, yeah.

Phillip Allison: [00:12:03] Yeah. So, that was it. There are some kind of interesting approaches to multi … like clinics. They’re just clinics. Either, it’s you or the clinic. And so, this is the beginning of people starting to pair up, and partnerships, and the idea of DSOs and all that where maybe it’s not so great to just be you and three other people. And so, we all kind of realized that at the same time, like, “Wait a second, there might be a better way to do this.”

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:12:38] Absolutely, it’s tough. When you’re an entrepreneur, you’re either the butcher, the baker, or the candlestick maker, you’ve got to answer the phone, lock the door, do all your numbers, HR, plus to set the strategy, understand your profit and loss. And oh, you guys have to be clinicians too. So, that that’s quite the balancing act. So, care to comment on that, Ted?

Ted Smith: [00:13:06] Oh, yeah. I think it’s just too much work for one person. So, our practice, we’ve never had an office manager. And Phillip and I are, like, doing the management on our own. And there’s nothing wrong with having an office manager. I’ve heard some stories of some people kind of losing control of the practice, or you always hear about somebody getting embezzled and stuff, so they don’t have their thumb on every aspect of the business. And to be able to share those labors as duties is really nice and just economy at scale. We have an associate. Phillip and I have young kids. I think you can hear my three-year-old girl in the background. But we don’t want work Fridays after 21 years. Most people probably don’t work Fridays in general dentistry. Now, the oral surgeons that are listening are probably jealous right now.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:04] Right. But [crosstalk].

Ted Smith: [00:14:04] So, we have an associate there on Fridays.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:08] They’re not jealous on Wednesdays when they’re playing golf.

Ted Smith: [00:14:11] Yeah, it’s true.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:13] We have 11 operatories. So, we wanted the practice to be open on Fridays. So, we’ve always had an associate. And those 11 operatories are like gates at the airport. It doesn’t make sense to just running a business four days a week and have those gates empty on Fridays.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:35] Sure, absolutely. And so, how did you [crosstalk] right now-

Phillip Allison: [00:14:38] Talk about Saturdays [crosstalk].

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:38] How busy are you [indiscernible]?

Ted Smith: [00:14:45] We’re busy.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:46] Right now.

Ted Smith: [00:14:46] Yeah, we have a very brisk pace. I mean, the day goes by fast. We’ve just been blessed to always be very busy.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:55] COVID mentioned, even in the COVID times, the interesting thing to me, I have heard of ADA, I’ve heard several folks that are like, “It’s slowly down,” and da-da-da. And anecdotally, that’s not happening with our clients. And our clients tend to be more established folks like yourself, right, just by the very nature of our business. And so, I talk to them, and they’re like, “We’re slack. We’re booking out. Six months of hygiene docs, booking out a month.” And I’m like that, “That’s too long” because there was some pent-up demand. But it seemed to me, I have a theory, but I’d like for you guys just real briefly on how are you addressing that?

Phillip Allison: [00:15:50] Well, I mean, at first, there was the great unknown. When we were shut down in Texas until May 1st, from middle of March to May 1st. And so, there’s a little bit of uncertainty as to what we’re expecting. We really didn’t think hygiene would come back at all. We were planning on it not just being there. And figure there’d be a lot of dental work to do because we got calls all the time about broken teeth that we weren’t allowed to fix. But when we started up, it was just straight to the walls. Like we were packed. And it’s the change. The people that showed up at first, obviously, they didn’t care. They’re just ready to get on, get out of the house, even if it means going to the dental office. And then, it all kind of evened out. So, now, we got people. Now, they are reluctantly coming up, even though they would rather be in their houses. And so, between those two groups of people, we haven’t dropped off really at all. I mean, I think it’s about the same. But like you said, it’s an old practice. So, we’re drawn on a pretty deep patient base. So, we’re really fortunate to have had that. We need more space, actually.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:17:07] So, have you experienced an influx of new patients for any reason? That they feel more comfortable coming to your practice, for some, because I heard about it from a friend. Like, is your busyness coming from your existing patient base or are you getting an influx of them? There’s no right or wrong answer. I’m just curious.

Phillip Allison: [00:17:32] Both.

Ted Smith: [00:17:32] We’re about 50/50. I think we’re about 50 percent individual referral. And then, about 50 percent of people wanting to stay in network, and they’ll obviously cross-reference with Google and whatnot. And so, we’re probably … I think, we see around one hundred new patients a month. So-

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:18:00] That’s awesome. That’s amazing. And I’m just curious and I think our listeners would be curious, like how much marketing effort are you guys putting into that?

Ted Smith: [00:18:13] We don’t really do a whole lot of marketing. Just the local schools is really our only area that we kind of focus on. Both our kids go to the schools. And obviously-

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:18:28] Not a billboard up with your patients on it?

Ted Smith: [00:18:31] No, no.

Phillip Allison: [00:18:32] No.

Ted Smith: [00:18:33] Still contemplating that one.

Phillip Allison: [00:18:35] We can’t get the headshot to be just right.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:18:38] No, they’re too big.

Phillip Allison: [00:18:39] So, we’ve got a fine football stadium and. Yeah, nothing. I mean, let’s put our logo on a t-shirt sleeve of the local sports that the kids are involved in. That’s it. I mean, that’s it. I think we have a Facebook page, but we didn’t know it. So, I guess, people check in or something but none of the other stuff. But I mean, you could say that we take PPOs, and we’re published on the PPO rosters. So, the people that do come in that aren’t from friends of friends, they see us on PPO fee schedule. I mean, on their company plan and will list, that is why they came in. That, coupled with the location. So, I think you got to check up probably some of our PPO networks as our marketing cost.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:19:35] Sure, absolutely. I think that in a metropolitan area that’s fairly managed care-friendly like Dallas, PPOs, they can be quite useful. They’re just outsourced marketing costs. And so, we need to help manage that cost. I think that there’s certainly good partnerships to be had there. It just needs to be equitable between the provider and the payer. There’s no reason by award-winning Top Docs like yourselves should be taking 50 cents on the dollar. It’s just doesn’t make sense if your overhead is 65. That’s our philosophy and [indiscernible] probably preach us for a while.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:20:21] But that was for all of you out there in whisperland for what it’s worth, but there’s not really a one size fits all solution. I think you guys, on a scale of one to 10 from your network participation, I think you’re probably a solid eight, if not at nine. You’re not doing an APH, you’re not doing any APS, you’re not doing any Medicaid. And you’re, certainly, relevant in the Dallas market. And so, you’re on good carrier partners that are equitable and allow you to provide the type of care that your patients expect and that they very likely deserve.

Phillip Allison: [00:21:10] Yeah.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:21:10] I would think.

Phillip Allison: [00:21:11] And another, like going back to the Park Cities, what makes it good? I mean, Dallas, in general, the business climate in Dallas is fantastic and for most industries. And you see the cranes up everywhere, and the apartments, and the suburbs expanding. And every day, there’s a new company relocating. And so, we get a lot of new patients from that. And they’re usually big employers. And so, they bring their insurance with them, and then they spread the word in their office. And we are on the drive between downtown and the houses. So, I think that just really being in Dallas is not a slam dunk for a company to succeed, but it’s a good place to do business. And we see patients all the time that they move in. It used to be locals. And now, it’s from out of state all the time. And they’re relocating here because the taxes, the climate, if they travel a lot, they’re centrally located, stuff like that. So, I think we could take advantage of that as much as we can.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:22:19] I would move to Dallas in a heartbeat. I love Atlanta, don’t get me wrong, but I love Texas in general. But I’m originally from Florida. And so, I can get back to the different coast of Florida pretty easily. Atlanta certainly has its advantages. I think Georgia and Texas are fairly similar just as far as my kind of attitude of the population, and open and friendliness. And I see you guys booming, for sure. And do you think that the folks coming from high-tax environments, like California, I mean, we’re getting them from Connecticut, Jersey, coming down into Atlanta. Not so much California, but definitely if I was in California, and I don’t want to pay 12 percent anymore, this would be a good spot, I think. And so, I’m just curious.

Ted Smith: [00:23:25] Yeah, we’ve had a lot of California companies relocate to the Metroplex. I think, Toyota, Liberty Mutual.

Phillip Allison: [00:23:33] Schwabb

Ted Smith: [00:23:34] It’s built on a humongous center on Southlake right now, relocating all other people. A lot of AT&T people moving in from Jersey in New York, Chicago, a lot of Illinois, California, New Jersey, Illinois. So, yeah. Want to get away from the high taxes, for sure.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:23:58] Yeah. And no, I would imagine. Shout out to everybody up north, you guys are under some snow right now. I understand. I take calls from all over the place all week long, and I’m like, “Oh, it’s chilly. It’s like 50.” And they’re like, “It’s 10.”

Phillip Allison: [00:23:58] Right.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:24:17] And I’m like, “Oh!” Yeah.

Phillip Allison: [00:24:19] That’s not good.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:24:23] Not good. That’s not cool as it actually get there either, isn’t it? Like this is just the beginning. And they’re like, “Don’t rub it in, Pat.”

Phillip Allison: [00:24:30] Right.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:24:34] So, now, Ted, did both of you guys do Pankey or had to do this Pankey?

Ted Smith: [00:24:41] We actually do things together with a couple buddies of ours or brothers in dental school. One was in our class and one was a class right underneath ours. And their dad was a dentist in East Texas, and he had gone to Pankey back in the day. And so, four of us went out there in the early 2000s. What was it? 2001 or 2002?

Phillip Allison: [00:25:06] Yeah, 2001.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:25:06] For our listeners that are not dentists and that are not familiar with Pankey, and I’m going to count myself as one of them actually, I understand there’s some prestige there. But can you guys, in your own words, kind of … And Phillip, we’ll go with you first. And then, Ted. Articulate to the listeners what makes Pankey Pankey.

Phillip Allison: [00:25:38] Well, when you leave dental school, you have a foundation but there are a lot of different directions that you can go. And probably right out of school is a good enough time to go over there. The Pankey Institute is trying to gear you towards a little bit of the diagnostic side, trying to get a little deeper into the root cause of common problems. So, it’s a continuum of classes, and you do it over a year, and they hook you up with a mentor. And it’s pretty intensive. You’re there for a week, and it’s all day.

Phillip Allison: [00:26:22] But it’s when we did it, found out there’s a lot of stuff that was never touched on in dental school. And some of it is applicable broadly. And some of it, I think, as you get to the higher levels kind of your practice would reflect your training. And so, it’s a niche type of practice that you would develop in a very complete dentistry and very good. I mean, I think there’s an emphasis on quality. And I think that we’re able to take away some stuff. We didn’t end up going through the whole thing in terms of being the career students there, but it was a good place to get started, I think we were at a good point in our careers when we’re open and want to really learn and find a direction. So, it was good for that.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:27:21] Gotcha. So, it’s kind of like a higher caliber … I don’t want to say continuing education but-.

Phillip Allison: [00:27:31] Instead of learning how to do a good filling or a good crown, it’s kind of like how can you take someone who has suffered from decades of grinding their teeth down, and they don’t really have it functional, how do you fix that? Bigger problems, stuff that you would feel like you need to refer to a specialist? Maybe, how do you treat that stuff?

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:27:55] And that’s a big deal, right? Having to smile is important. It’s important to your self-confidence. It’s important to your self-image. I had our last show at Dental Business Radio with Jesse Jakubowski. He said to me and told me I had a beautiful smile, which I appreciated, it’s a soothing flattery, while he was telling me about how you could do implants in the same day. And he’s like, “Aren’t you coming down there?” I definitely get it. I do. I think it’s killing, especially for anybody that’s in the public eye. Are you seeing more or less of kind of grinding issues, TMJ issues, jaw?

Ted Smith: [00:28:43] Yeah, especially with the COVID. People are breaking teeth right and left right now with stress. So, when we got back on May 1, about the last three or four weeks locked down, we’re reaching four or five calls a day of people just break teeth, and we’re able to tell them, “You got to hang in there.” We’re just slammed fixing a backlog of broken teeth in May. But then, throughout the year, everybody’s just so stressed, they’re breaking teeth right and left, clenching and grinding. Yeah, have really seen an uptick in fractured teeth for sure. And people are just saying them. Probably didn’t going to tell I’m super stressed out.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:29:29] Yeah, there’s a lot of noise these days for everybody, for sure.

Phillip Allison: [00:29:35] Yeah. It sounds cliche to say the grinding war but, I mean, the numbers of the procedure mix kind of really reflects. We’re doing night guards all the time. It’s really interesting to see that. Well, and that, and I’m surprised that the amount of cosmetic work has gone up dramatically. That and Invisalign, a lot more like markedly different than, say, this time last year. And I don’t know really what drives that, but people have been asking for that more. Some people said they do Invisalign because you get a mask on. It’s like who would see it anyway. But the goal is to not need a mask. I’m sure Invisalign would say you didn’t need a mask to start with.

Ted Smith: [00:30:26] Yeah, I have a lot of patients say they had been thinking about doing Invisalign. But now that they’re wearing a mask, they just decided nobody could see. We can’t see them anyway. But I guess that last little hang up, it’s like I’m wearing a mask now, so I just decided to go ahead and get started.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:30:40] And I don’t think we’re going to be wearing masks forever, hopefully. I mean, we’ve got some positive news just this week, not to get all into COVID, but I think it is a good time for folks. I’ve been thinking about it myself. And I have had people because I’m known as like the dental dork in my circle where or my neighborhood or my family. They don’t know exactly what I do, but they’re like, “Something with insurance and he knows a lot about dentistry.” So, people are like, “Well, what do you think about this?” And I’m like, “I’m not a dentist.” And so, they’re like, “Well, is Invisalign good?” And I’m like, “Yeah, it’s pretty awesome assuming you’re a good candidate.”

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:31:29] I’m not a clinician, again, but you get to put this in your mouth in. It’s not like you’re putting these braces on, and you’re tightening them, and you have to go back. It’s not like that at all. So, is it worth exploring? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Do you want to make an investment into another [indiscernible] or do you want to have perfect smile for the rest of your life? Your call. So, that’s what I tell folks, and then send them depending on where they’re at. If somebody was in Dallas, it would be like [indiscernible]. Hopefully, they can fit you in because they’re busy over there.

Phillip Allison: [00:32:12] Make it happen.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:32:12] If you drop my name, yeah, I hope you guys would send them in.

Phillip Allison: [00:30:40] Absolutely.

Ted Smith: [00:32:22] Make room.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:32:24] I’d appreciate that. You have to give him a warm blanket or something. So, what other things do you guys do to make your office special? What do you think stands out?

Ted Smith: [00:32:30] Well, we have a good team. So, counting Phillip and I, there’s 19 of us. So, we’ve got six hygienists. And we mentioned earlier, we have an associate. So, it’s a big team. It feels fast-paced. So, the day goes by fast. And everybody likes each other, and gets along well with each other, and complements each other.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:32:58] Good culture. And then, the schedule-

Ted Smith: [00:33:00] Good culture.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:33:00] I’m a busy professional. I don’t want to be waiting around. I come in, you get in, you do what you got to do, give you some nitrous, tell me a funny joke, get me out.

Phillip Allison: [00:33:11] Yeah, yeah. I think it’s almost like we’re not really trying that hard to craft the experience. We don’t have a lot of other things like massages, like a menu of really anything. There’s not TVs to look at. It’s just pretty straight forward. Like really, people are coming there to get their teeth fixed. They don’t really want the spa effect or some people do, and they try us out, they go somewhere else because there are some great practices that do stuff like that. But we just kind of we’re mindful of your time, we don’t run late. Although we’re super busy, I think we got the scheduling down pretty well. So, you’re not sitting in the waiting room. And you just come in there.

Phillip Allison: [00:34:00] And like Ted said, the culture reflects. I mean, you can always hear people, there’s a lot of chatter, a lot of laughter because the ops are pretty close. It’s cozy. And so, you can hear a lot of stuff going on. And you can only go into a medical office, and you can tell like there’s some unhappiness going on, they’re kind of sulkier. You can just tell the mood is not good. The moods usually-

Ted Smith: [00:34:23] It’s really good.

Phillip Allison: [00:34:24] Yeah. And so, between doing that and just getting them in and out, I mean it’s sort of a relief to not have to feel like we got to lean on selling extra products or the décor, which we do try a little bit on that. We just want to have a solid product.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:34:50] Right, absolutely. You do a quality job. And then, people feel safe. They trust you guys. And then, they refer their friends, family, church, congregation, et cetera. And it’s obviously working out quite well for you. As a business owner myself, sometimes, it’s just like you got to keep it simple. It’s about just what you do. Do what you say and that’s it. And one foot in front of the other, do a quality job, and keep it basic, and just be really, really good at what you do. That’s some of my advice sometimes to other folks that are starting a business in our industry or out really. So, what are some of the business challenges that you guys have overcome that maybe you would like to share some tips or insights with some of our younger audience members or folks that are in dental school, or about to graduate, or just graduated?

Ted Smith: [00:35:56] I think the group model was a recipe for success. I really do. If I need to take a vacation, we don’t have to close the whole shop down. If Phillip needs to go on vacation, I hold the fort down. Being able to divide the duties and labor of running a business, I would say, to a young person and full-blooded, you can’t just get into a partnership with anybody but the right partnership in a group setting, I kind of see being the future of dentistry. I think that the days of the solo practitioner are probably behind us. It’s just such a high overhead business and a lot of work. You got more and more regulations every year. So, instead of somebody just starting from scratch, I would try to recommend to them to maybe consider a group practice situation that’s the right set up for them.

Phillip Allison: [00:37:03] And when you have-

Ted Smith: [00:37:04] I’d add-

Phillip Allison: [00:37:06] Go ahead. Go ahead, Ted.

Ted Smith: [00:37:09] Well, I think the other thing that helps our practice, so we’re conservative and people like that. We like conservative treatment ourselves when we see medical or dental professionals. And the word of mouth, conservative works. That’s what people want.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:37:29] Amen. Amen. So, Phillip, do you recommend trying out like five different models before they settle?

Phillip Allison: [00:37:36] Well, just call me, and I can tell you which ones is good. And I’ll save you some time because I think that the hardest part when you first start out is, let’s say, you got one of each – front desk, hygienist, and assistant – when do you add someone else? Like when do you say, “Okay, I’m going to finish out another room, and I’m going to add an assistant. That’s going to be X dollars for equipment. And then, my payroll is going to go about this,” or a hygienist, “I’ve got this many patients,” because when you add that next hygienist, that’s a big jump in your payroll.

Phillip Allison: [00:38:21] And with me, especially, just being kind of timid about if you want to grow, you kind of grow, and if you’re grown organically just from your location, you kind of have to throw it out there first and then grow to it. You got to have a staff increase, and then grow to it. You can’t really just wait till you’re overcrowded and suffering to finally throw in staff. So, growth is hard. There is a risk tolerance that you got to accept. Or else, it’s never going to happen. So, if you’re real timid, you’re going to have a hard time meeting your goals.

Phillip Allison: [00:39:02] So, to that point, I think that there’s a lot to be said for finding a practice that’s a target and growing by acquisition rather than just finding a new ad campaign and just marketing yourself out, which can work for sure. And you have to know the market. I mean, the towns are so varied that the one thing is going to work better somewhere than somewhere else. But if you’re able to find something and you buy it, then you’ve already crossed the staff threshold. You’ve got more hygienist, you got more space, you do have to manage the debt on it, but it’s a whole different thing to manage multiple people as opposed to manage growth. And I think it’s easier. So, I would be looking at refine your clinical skills, and find a good target, and try to buy it.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:39:58] That’s a really interesting point that you made actually. The choice could be what’s easier for you. Is it easier to manage growth or is it easier to manage people?

Phillip Allison: [00:40:10] Right.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:40:11] And you answered that question for yourself. But for the listeners, maybe something that you may want to ponder that’s not likely part of the curriculum at school. With all due respect to all the schools, you do a great job teaching how to be a clinician. There’s just not a whole lot of business aspects to it. And any business owner, myself and my partner included, we’re like Frick and Frack. Our personalities are totally different but we want exactly the same thing. And even having a partner, we still have advisors. So, you have to have some people there that you totally trust, that have eyeballs maybe on because you can’t see everything.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:40:58] And so, how do you find those advisors? I mean, personally, that’s been part of the journey as well because you’re bringing people in to something that’s very like your baby. It’s your family. It’s your kids. It’s like your business. And so, to find people that can add value that you trust implicitly. I mean, we have a small circle of our board of advisors, and I’d like to thank all of them that are listening. We appreciate you. What do you guys think about that? How do you guys seek counsel? I’ll just leave it open ended. So, Ted, we’ll go with Ted first, and Phillip second. How how do you feel you guys seek quality counsel? How are you able to attain that? And not only just us. I mean, just in general.

Ted Smith: [00:41:56] Well, to be honest with you, I’d say that you all probably have been one of our best advisers. I guess, Phillip alluded to earlier, we knew we had a problem, we just didn’t really know exactly what the problem was, let alone how to fix it. And so, you’re at one of those. When I refer people to you all, that’s probably the best advice I can give them. So, I mean-

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:42:24] I really appreciate that.

Ted Smith: [00:42:25] … their pwn accountants and their own attorneys, and there’s no shortage of those guys but-

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:42:30] For sure.

Ted Smith: [00:42:31] … there’s not a lot of people in your space, and you all have gained our trust, and done amazing job for us. So, I’m extremely happy to share a referral with a colleague because I know it’s just going to help our practice.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:42:49] That’s awesome. And for the record, I did not pay you to say that.

Ted Smith: [00:42:55] That is true, although you can.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:42:55] You’re definitely on my Christmas card list, for sure. Phillip, do you have any comments kind of on that? And again, kind of more geared to folks that are like they’re listening to the podcast because they’re trying to learn. And so, if you’re like, “Here is kind of what you need to think about,” what would you say as far as those kids then?

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:43:23] And let me preface. I didn’t want to totally preface the question, but I personally feel like there’s a lot of noise out there right now. And for some reason, Facebook is a source of information. Just because you read it on Facebook doesn’t mean much. And there’s some folks out there that are advisers. To be Georgia polite, I raise an eyebrow. And so, how do you work through that noise? Or how would you advise some folks to filter?

Phillip Allison: [00:44:05] So, it kind of goes back to what I was saying about when it’s time to grow, there’s a certain amount of risk tolerance. You have to have a team of professionals to help you out – legal, CPA, and such. But they might not be the best for you, and there’s really no way to know. So, you have them, you ask your friends, which is pretty much the only way you can tell with professional services is get feedback from people that you know. So, starting out your network, go to the meetings, go to your alumni meetings, and get on the internet forums and stuff like that. And take your best guess and just jump in.

Phillip Allison: [00:44:52] But if it doesn’t work out, you got to understand that you can part ways with some of these people and just move on. And you’ll find that patients are going to leave you even though you really like them. And you realize that it’s not a forever relationship. So, you got to be able to say, “You’re not taking me in the direction I need to go. Let’s find someone else.”

Phillip Allison: [00:45:19] And same with there are million consultants that can help you out, and some can really help you and can give you insight, and others can’t. And if you do nothing, you should expect nothing in return. So, the question is, are your decisions right or not? And you can’t go look that stuff up, but make some movements and find some people to work with, but tell them we’re moving on if it doesn’t work. I have known several people that have just been stuck in a rut and saying, “Gosh, I’m really not happy with where things are going,” but they won’t ever make a call to say, “I’m going to end my relationship and move on something else.”

Phillip Allison: [00:46:03] So, that hurts to see that because you can you can get really in neutral in a dental practice because we’re different where the management is basically nonexistent, and we’re on the assembly line. And so, you can get bogged down. And how good your shades, you have porcelain, and the margins, and the chemical stuff, and that’s great and important, you got to have a good product, but you got to spend some quality time on the management side and how are you going to grow because, really, the growth management questions and the things I’ve struggled with in the years past were completely different than now because Ted and I, we’re not looking to add four or five more offices or anything like that. And so, we have different priorities and different goals with our questions when we talk about the future of the practice, and recognize that the time and your career changes your priorities, and you can’t always be looking at the same stuff. But then, you got to recognize it’s time to change your direction. And that might mean a change of crew helping out.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:47:16] Yeah. No, that’s a really good commentary. And I was driving down to Florida today, I was listening to a different podcast, The Bulletproof Dentist. I don’t know if you guys have heard it. And they were talking about Balance is a Myth. And it has to do with, really, kind of your cycle of life, and you just have to be okay with sometimes, you’re walking; and sometimes, you’re jogging; and sometimes, you’re sprinting. And I thought that that was a really good, candid, honest conversation that I really like to shout out to those guys. And so, before we leave today, is there anybody that you would like to shout out, give thanks to, or mention publicly on this particular radio show, Ted?

Ted Smith: [00:48:06] I would like to shout out to my beautiful wife, Nicole.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:48:14] Very good. Nicole Smith, big shout out. You’re famous now. You’re welcome. Phillip?

Phillip Allison: [00:48:22] Well, I hate to sound repetitive but, I mean, you all have really been that group that has helped us the most. I mean, tailoring real specific needs and specific instruction with specific results. You overlook the fundamentals like that a lot of times, and you all are at the top of the list. We’ve been thrilled.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:48:50] Hats off. Well, I appreciate you saying that. I almost thought you were going to say, “Well, I hate to sound repetitive,” and then say Ted’s wife too.

Phillip Allison: [00:48:57] I know.

Ted Smith: [00:48:57] I was thinking the exact same thing.

Phillip Allison: [00:48:59] I was going to be [crosstalk].

Ted Smith: [00:49:00] I was wondering why you had the mailman outfit in his office.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:49:13] All right. Well, with that, I’m going to give a shout out to Mayor John Ray, the unofficial mayor of North Fulton and everybody at Business RadioX. We appreciate all of your time and your expertise. I’d also like to give a shout out to the entire team over at Practice Quotient – Rachel, Jordan, Nicky, Scott, Tony, Donald, and that guy Patrick who keeps talking, he’s an alright guy though. But Practice Quotient, PPO analysis and negotiation, thank you so much for sponsoring our show. Thank you, Phillip. Thank you, Ted. Park Cities Dental Group, if people want to find you, how do they get in touch with you?

Ted Smith: [00:49:52] Parkcitiesdentalgroup.com.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:49:56] Very good. Excellent. All right. So, with that, we’re going to wrap up this show. And I hope everybody has a terrific weekend. Thank you so much, Phillip. Thank you so much, Ted. I appreciate you.

Ted Smith: [00:50:09] Thank you.

About Dental Business Radio

“Dental Business Radio” covers the business side of dentistry. Host Patrick O’Rourke and his guests cover industry trends, insights, success stories, and more in this wide-ranging show. The show’s guests will include successful doctors across the spectrum of dental practice providers, as well as trusted advisors and noted industry participants. “Dental Business Radio” is underwritten and presented by Practice Quotient and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Practice Quotient

“Dental Business Radio” is sponsored by Practice Quotient. Practice Quotient, Inc. serves as a bridge between the payor and provider communities. Their clients include general dentist and dental specialty practices across the nation of all sizes, from completely fee-for-service-only to active network participation with every dental plan possible. They work with independent practices, emerging multi-practice entities, and various large ownership entities in the dental space. Their PPO negotiations and analysis projects evaluate the merits of the various in-network participation contract options specific to your Practice’s patient acquisition strategy. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

Connect with Practice Quotient:

Website

LinkedIn

Facebook

Twitter

 

Tagged With: cosmetic dentistry, Dr. Phillip Allison, Dr. Ted Smith, general dentistry, Park Cities Dental Group, Patrick O'Rourke, PPO Negotiations & Analysis, Practice Quotient

CAW E9: AGILITY Innovation’s Drew Kallestad & Ken Sloan

November 20, 2020 by angishields

Tucson Business Radio
Tucson Business Radio
CAW E9: AGILITY Innovation's Drew Kallestad & Ken Sloan
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DREW KALLESTAD & KEN SLOAN 
Drew Kallestad: Founder, Chief Strategy Officer 
Ken Sloan: Founder, Chief Growth Officer 

AGILITY Innovation Partners 

16750 Amberstone Way 
Parker, CO ZIP: 80134 
Email:  Drew: dkallestad@agilitydcs.com  Ken: ksloan@agilityhda.com  Phone: 303.881.1872 


Drew Kallestad: Founder, Chief Strategy Officer 

Drew founded AGILITY in 2018, armed with over three decades of executive experience in healthcare, ranging from employee benefit consulting & health risk management to healthcare finance & employee engagement. 

A truth seeker and business connector, Drew has successfully guided innovation launches in health data analytics, payment integrity, direct primary care, and improved health outcomes fields.  Pre-Agility, Drew served as Executive VP at CoBiz Insurance. As the senior member of the division, he led the transformation of the Employee Benefits team. The firm tripled in size during that time. 

Today, Drew’s most invigorating “innovation workstation” isn’t behind a desk or a laptop, but up at his Colorado mountain getaway, skiing, hiking, snowshoeing, and fly fishing. 


Ken Sloan: Founder, Chief Growth Officer 

Ken has successfully launched multiple innovations in health technology, insurance technology, and has experience leading teams that have played a key role in transforming healthcare and wellbeing in America. 

He started this pursuit as an early adopter of consumer-driven health plans/ consumerism in healthcare in the early 2000s and moved into behavior change and driving innovation in health insurance for key stakeholder groups.  Prior to co-founding AGILITY, Ken served as the Vice President of Growth and Distribution at Vitality Group, a leading global behavior change health tech company. 

Originally from the Chicago area, Ken and his family now live in Evergreen Colorado. He enjoys everything outdoors, spending time with kids, grandkids, and the family’s Black Labrador, Teddy. 

About the Business

Since its inception in October 2017, Nice Healthcare (one of Agility Innovation Partners’ key initiatives) has focused on making primary care affordable and accessible to people who historically have not had access to care, either for cost concerns, convenience, or other factors. Nice clinicians currently provide healthcare services for over 200 small businesses that encompass 30,000+ members. 

Nice’s goal is to enable its care team to treat as many medical conditions as possible. By expanding its offering to include over 550 acute and chronic medications free of charge as well as virtual physical therapy to address the musculoskeletal needs of its patients, Nice is broadening the ways members engage with their Nice provider. Genevieve Swenson, co-Founder and COO, and FNP elaborate. “We want every one of our members to know that we are in their corner. Whether they are healthy, have the sniffles, or are managing chronic health conditions, a Nice healthcare provider is going to be able to engage with them and help them accomplish their goals. Expanding our prescription formulary and adding access to licensed physical therapists are the two newest examples of how we are broadening ways we can help.” 

Host

Matt Nelson: Senior Vice President, Crest Insurance Group 
Matt is a Senior Vice President at Crest Insurance Group in Tucson, consulting with companies to identify and implement insurance, risk management, and employee benefits solutions.  With more than a 15 years of industry experience, he has served as a keynote speaker on the healthcare industry, leadership, workplace culture and risk management for professional organizations throughout Southern Arizona, including the City of Tucson, Greater Tucson Leadership, the Financial Executives and Affiliates of Tucson, and the CEO Roundtable of Tucson. 

Matt is an active member in the Tucson community, having served as a Non-Commissioned Officer in the Arizona Army National Guard and volunteering with multiple local organizations, including as Treasurer and a Big Brother with Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Southern Arizona, a volunteer with the United Way of Tucson and Southern Arizona, Chair of the Pima County JTED’s Business and Industry Council, a builder with Habitat for Humanity and many other local youth charities. 
Email: mnelson@crestins.com  
Phone: 520.784.7636 
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mattrnelson2   

 

 

 

Tagged With: Crest Insurance Group in Tucson, Culture at Work in Tucson

Decision Vision Episode 92: Should I Pivot? – An Interview with Brandon Cooper, Aphid

November 19, 2020 by John Ray

should I pivot
Decision Vision
Decision Vision Episode 92: Should I Pivot? - An Interview with Brandon Cooper, Aphid
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Decision Vision Episode 92:  Should I Pivot? – An Interview with Brandon Cooper, Aphid

The question of “should I pivot?” is not just a question for a pandemic, but one businesses are often confronted by as markets grow, target customers change, and competition arises. In this edition of “Decision Vision,” Aphid Founder & CEO Brandon Cooper tells host Mike Blake the engaging story of his company’s pivots and what he’s learned along the way. “Decision Vision” is presented by Brady Ware & Company.

Brandon Cooper, CEO, Aphid

Aphid is a financial technology company and ecosystem that specializes in Internet-related services and products utilizing Artificial Intelligence and Blockchain technologies.

Brandon has over 15 years of experience in Information Technology, graphic design, and over 6 years of chat support. His specialty is in machine learning, and blockchain technology. Cooper has been featured on Steve, NBC, MTV, FOX, and more.

He holds a degree from Michigan State University in Marketing and Merchandising Management.

LinkedIn

Company Website

Company LinkedIn

Mike Blake, Brady Ware & Company

Mike Blake, Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series

Michael Blake is the host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series and a Director of Brady Ware & Company. Mike specializes in the valuation of intellectual property-driven firms, such as software firms, aerospace firms, and professional services firms, most frequently in the capacity as a transaction advisor, helping clients obtain great outcomes from complex transaction opportunities. He is also a specialist in the appraisal of intellectual properties as stand-alone assets, such as software, trade secrets, and patents.

Mike has been a full-time business appraiser for 13 years with public accounting firms, boutique business appraisal firms, and an owner of his own firm. Prior to that, he spent 8 years in venture capital and investment banking, including transactions in the U.S., Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.

Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm which helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality. Brady Ware services clients nationally from its offices in Alpharetta, GA; Columbus and Dayton, OH; and Richmond, IN. The firm is growth-minded, committed to the regions in which they operate, and most importantly, they make significant investments in their people and service offerings to meet the changing financial needs of those they are privileged to serve. The firm is dedicated to providing results that make a difference for its clients.

Decision Vision Podcast Series

“Decision Vision” is a podcast covering topics and issues facing small business owners and connecting them with solutions from leading experts. This series is presented by Brady Ware & Company. If you are a decision-maker for a small business, we’d love to hear from you. Contact us at decisionvision@bradyware.com and make sure to listen to every Thursday to the “Decision Vision” podcast.

Past episodes of “Decision Vision” can be found at decisionvisionpodcast.com. “Decision Vision” is produced and broadcast by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Visit Brady Ware & Company on social media:

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/brady-ware/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bradywareCPAs/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BradyWare

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bradywarecompany/

Show Transcript

Intro: [00:00:01] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions. Brought to you by Brady Ware & Company. Brady Ware is a regional, full-service accounting and advisory firm that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make vision a reality.

Mike Blake: [00:00:20] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we discuss the process of decision making on a different topic from the business owners’ or executives’ perspective. We aren’t necessarily telling you what to do, but we can put you in a position to make an informed decision on your own and understand when you might need help along the way.

Mike Blake: [00:00:42] My name is Mike Blake, and I’m your host for today’s program. I’m a Director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia. Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast, which is being recorded in Atlanta per social distancing protocols. If you like this podcast, please subscribe on your favorite podcast aggregator and please consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Mike Blake: [00:01:10] So, the topic today is Should I Pivot My Business? And in one sense, you might look at this topic and think, “Well, doesn’t everybody pivot my business?” Our producer, John, and I were talking a little bit before we started the program and, well, doesn’t everybody’s business pivot? Because there are not many businesses that are static throughout their existence, right? Maybe if you’re an electrical utility, maybe if you’re in some kinds of real estate, maybe if you’re in some kinds of mineral industries, maybe that’s true. But for the most part, most businesses do find themselves in what they would think is a pivot every day.

Mike Blake: [00:01:55] But I’m not talking about that. I’m putting my startup hat back on today. And I don’t put it on often because I want the show to be more of a generalized business show and not just focused on startups, but this is something that I think is more applicable to startups. And in the coronavirus environment, I think that this topic should be, at least, thought about or on the radar screen of even established companies.

Mike Blake: [00:02:25] And so, what I mean by a pivot, to not put too fine a point on it, is you’re in one business one day, and then the next day, you come to the realization that the business you’re in is no good. And it’s most likely no good because the need that you thought was in the market just isn’t there or, at least, not in the manner that you can effectively address it. Or if you’re in the coronavirus timeframe, your business Feb. 1 looked great. And then, by June, your business doesn’t look great, right?

Mike Blake: [00:03:06] If you’re a restaurant, and I know restaurants are places that we will never do takeout, right? Well, that restaurant did one of two things. They either pivoted to take out or they weren’t a restaurant anymore unless they had a big pile of cash they’re sitting on. Hotels are are pivoting. They’re renting out their rooms now, not to people who are traveling, but they’re renting them out to people like me who are working from home, and then come to the realization that if they stay at home one more day, they’re going to get either fired or they’re going to go crazy because of their family. And people are sort of taking these refugees and that’s what hotels are catering to.

Mike Blake: [00:03:51] So, even in a conventional industry, companies are are pivoting, for sure. I would even argue, Apple Computer back in 2007 pivoted from being a computer company to a mobile device, and software, and media service and sales company. They started that pivot. And now, they’re well along the road. General Motors is very much pivoting towards becoming an electric vehicle company because they see the handwriting on the wall, like it or not, gas-powered cars are going away sometime in our lifetimes. At least, new ones will be. And the list goes on and on.

Mike Blake: [00:04:33] Well, if you’re in a startup, the necessity to pivot, at least, the potential is a way of life. And some startups have to pivot multiple times, and we’ll talk about that. But what you find is nobody really talks about pivoting because pivoting is not really sexy. Pivoting is necessary. It’s often ugly. It’s a survival mode. And you find out who your friends really are in the pivot. And then, after you successfully emerge from the pivot, everybody’s your friend again. Everybody wants to interview you again, and you’re the darling of the startup world.

Mike Blake: [00:05:08] So, it’s a topic I really want to sink my teeth into. And you know what? It’s hard to find a guest that wants to talk about a pivot because it is tough. You have had to admit a setback to your business. And so, it takes somebody that has a willingness to be vulnerable, that has a lot of emotional intelligence that is willing to come out and publicly talk about the pivot. And fortunately, found somebody great who’s going to talk about that with us. And that person is Brandon Cooper, who is joining us from California. And he is the CEO of Aphid.

Mike Blake: [00:05:43] Aphid is a financial technology company and ecosystem disrupting the 9:00 to 5:00 workforce, using artificial intelligence and blockchain technology. And they’re preventing what’s called the singularity, meaning that robots take human jobs, and robots basically think independently and become sentient artificial life forms. From Detroit, Michigan, Brandon is a serial entrepreneur and inventor. He’s an expert in blockchain and machine learning, has over 15 years of experience in information technology and graphic design, and over six years in client support. He specializes in machine learning and blockchain technology. Brandon’s been featured on Steve, NBC, MTV, Fox and more. He owns a Degree from Michigan State University in Marketing and Merchandising Management. Brandon Cooper, thanks for coming on the program.

Brandon Cooper: [00:06:36] Thank you for having me. Glad to be here, Mike.

Mike Blake: [00:06:39] So, Brandon, did I get it right when I described what a pivot is? Do you think I got that description right? Is there something you want to add or change?

Brandon Cooper: [00:06:47] No, you’ve hit the nail right on the head. That’s exactly what it is. Basically looking at businesses and deciding to take a turn down a different street.

Mike Blake: [00:06:59] So, let’s go to pre-pivot days. How long ago did you do your pivot?

Brandon Cooper: [00:06:59] I’ll completely unveil everything, and these are things that I don’t talk about. But as you know, a lot of people don’t like to talk about pivot. As you said, it isn’t sexy. But we had the company a long time ago. This is when I was just really just trying to conceptualize something. It was AphidByte, and we were trying to prevent the piracy protection. So, we would put these Easter eggs hidden encryption into music songs and, also, into video files, so when people were streaming it, midway, we’ll cut them off and say, “Hey, go to iTunes.” Hey, go to whatever outlet it is to actually buy it, right? And these big companies were going to pay us money. We just flood the internet with all of these things.

Brandon Cooper: [00:07:54] I mean, I’m tired running into these aphids. And then, I said, “Yeah, that’s a great business for large enterprises and movie companies like Universal and Warner Brothers, but people are going to hate us.” So, that was short-lived, and we dropped it. And then, I saw that streaming was coming into effect. I knew that Spotify was going to change that. That’s what Sean Parker really wanted to do with Napster anyway, but just did not formulated him and Shawn Fanning. But I saw the streaming was coming, so I knew that there was no business there. So, I really just shelved the company and didn’t do anything with AphidByte any more at the time.

Brandon Cooper: [00:08:34] And in the midst of that time, I did different ventures, just trying to find my way, just looking for different projects to try to work on them. And I’m naturally an inventor. I worked on a project called Proximity that, basically, can show anyone in a room nearby, and you can get all that information with one button as long as they allow it to be seen. So, it destroys business cards. So, different projects like that I worked on. And then, I resurrected AphidByte in about 2017-2018. We were looking at the creative economy, seeing there are a lot of media people who aren’t making much money in the industry. These companies take a big chunk out of the record companies that take a lot of money. So, I was just looking at how to use blockchain technology and things like that with AphidByte.

Brandon Cooper: [00:09:23] So, we made two pivots. And as you’ve mentioned, we’ve changed everything over to AI and that’s the final pivot. This is what we are. I wanted to make sure when we went to market that we established our identity with automation and artificial intelligence. So, I pull back on the marketing and made a tough decision. There are people in the company at that time who didn’t really like the pivot, and they wanted to kind of stick with what we had, and I made a decision, and people left the company, and they’re great people. I’m sure that they didn’t leave because they didn’t believe in the pivot. They probably just got a little exhausted on the change, but I did what was best for the company. So, now, we have Aphid. No Byte, just Aphid.

Mike Blake: [00:10:08] So, I want to talk a little bit about the times leading up to those pivots, either one or both, however you want to answer this. But you tell me if I’m wrong, but I imagine that there was some sort of struggle, if you will, for lack of a better term, to kind of make that business work, right? I would imagine you would have thought that if you tweak X and Y, or change A and B a little better, then the core business is still potentially viable. So, if that’s true, what were the kinds of things that you tried and, I guess, ultimately, didn’t work that, then, led you to the conclusion that that business just was not going to be viable?

Brandon Cooper: [00:10:54] For the initial business premise, streaming was coming into effect. So, I knew that it was going to be dead in the water, where piracy is not going to matter as long as people are paying $10 a month to use Apple Music and TIDAL, or whatever to use. So, that’s when I knew that business model was dead in the water. And then, in terms of the creative economy, it definitely works, it’s just more expensive.

Brandon Cooper: [00:11:18] So, just leading into to that, it’s great to have it as a feature in the future as a future phase, but having that as a business is very expensive. Music industry, streaming, data, I mean SoundCloud is still trying to raise money just to stay profitable. They might make $100 million, but their expenses are $100 million because they ultimately become the YouTube of audio. So, things like that I did a lot of R&D on and realized that artificial intelligence was the future anyway. So, that’s when I knew.

Mike Blake: [00:11:54] So, I think it’s really interesting that you saw … I mean, it sounds like that you saw soon streaming came on, it came on the scene, that things like iPods were just not going to matter anymore, things like stored music were not going to matter anymore, that everything is just going to go online to this virtualized streaming model where there’s not even a transfer of ownership of media anymore for the most part. It’s really just everybody rents them, which is interesting.

Brandon Cooper: [00:12:24] Yeah.

Mike Blake: [00:12:25] I think, frankly, that’s extraordinary because a lot of founders would have denied it, but they would have gone through sort of the stages of grief, and they would have hung on to denial, and said, “No, streaming is not going to be all that. Maybe it’ll have our role alongside it,” right? Netflix was doing streaming and DVDs, parallel for a long time. There’s still going to be a role. We can still make a go of it. What was it that you saw or is it something about you and your makeup that you said, “No, there’s no reason pulling with it. Let’s just look at this with ice-cold clarity. Call it for what it is and get out in front of it before we get run over by it.”

Brandon Cooper: [00:13:10] It’s a tough decision to make because of all the work that’s put into it. And I said I stayed up, I mean, ultimately, you know, at least a year and a half to two years into it and worked just to say everything has been done, just throw it in the trash, or just throw it on the shelf for later or someone else, right? A lot of founders cannot make that decision because of prior issues, because of the amount that they put in opposed to just making the right decision that’s best for the team members and the company.

Brandon Cooper: [00:13:47] So, I saw that piece. I definitely don’t want to get in my own way. A lot of founders can get in their own way, get in their own head, and get emotional, and there’s no room for emotion in business unless you’re like your Steve Jobs putting the spirit into the company and everything. But you can’t be too emotional of something that doesn’t make business sense. It doesn’t make sense to be the SoundCloud in the SoundCloud predicament. We’re not profitable, right?

Mike Blake: [00:14:21] Now, when you’ve had either those two incarnations of your company, have you taken outside money for them?

Brandon Cooper: [00:14:30] Yes, very small. Very, very minute. Small thousands. So, no big angel or venture money. It’s really, really small. And most of that was just for legal information, just structuring LLC, things like that.

Mike Blake: [00:14:48] And do you think that made the pivot easier because you didn’t? Or maybe I’m assuming something. I mean, did that make the pivot easier that you didn’t have large institutional capital in it? Or did you still have to say a lot of uncomfortable conversations where you’re based upon time of death on the investment and saying, “Look, this is what’s happening. I don’t know. We’ll see what will happen next. You may or may not get your money then.” How hard was that?

Brandon Cooper: [00:15:18] It’s a lot easier when it is not big money and you know who the investor is. If it is VC level, they try to control a lot of it. I’m a bigger fan of angel investment because of that reason, unless you have a really, really good VC. But yes, it definitely made it a lot easier to make a pivot. And one of the investors understood the pivot and was supportive of it. And because of the results, they feel better about the pivot even now because there was no worry in their mind. They trust me as a leader to make the best decision. And because of the results that we’ve merited, they’re happy that that has occurred. If there’s no results, then, of course, there’s blame. You made a bad decision. That’s all people care about is results. So, they put money in behind me or into the company. Then, I have to make the best decision for their money and not get emotional myself.

Mike Blake: [00:16:21] You brought something up a couple of times, and I think it’s worth kind of spending a beat on. And that is the emotions of pivoting and being able to look at a company almost like an assassin, if you will, that whatever you spend today, you can’t get it back. It’s gone. And the only thing you can change is from this moment on, what is the future going to look like? And I guess how do I take whatever resources I have left, and then redirect them towards something that has a chance of being successful?

Mike Blake: [00:17:00] But, boy, that’s so hard, especially with that first venture because you really think you’re on to something, you’re getting traction, and then boom, the market just changes. In that case, there  was no bad decision there. It was just bad luck that somebody came out with streaming, and that wasn’t necessarily visible. That emotional mind set to be able to cut the loss, and be decisive, and absorb uncomfortable conversations, if nothing else, with your employees, that is such an important leadership quality in order to execute a pivot and do it in time to actually save the company.

Brandon Cooper: [00:17:43] Yes. I talk about that emotional piece. If you think in terms of relationships, how many people do we know that are in mediocre relationships, but they stay in them just because they’ve been dating them for so long but it’s no longer serving them, right? Look, we’ve been together. I’ve known him since high school, or we’re eight years in, and all the time we put in but it’s no longer serving them. Or even a close friend who is supportive of your business or they want to see you do good, but not better than them, but they’ve been your friends your whole life, and you keep them in your circle even though you know they’re toxic and they’re cancerous to your vibration and your energy. So, if you think in terms of that, that should be applied to business too. And especially when you have people believing you, in the team, and investors.

Brandon Cooper: [00:18:30] And also, an added point for me is with Aphid, we didn’t actually go live. So, that did make the pivot easier as well. These were things that we were just working on. It’s one thing to launch as McDonald’s and you say, “Hey, we’re selling tacos.” That’s not going to work. It doesn’t matter what McDonald’s tries to do. If they start delivering pizzas, I mean that they’re not going to have much success. It’ll probably tank. I have this where they did a joke or whatever, and they called it International House of Burgers.

Mike Blake: [00:19:04] Yeah, I remember that.

Brandon Cooper: [00:19:05] And people went crazy on Twitter about it because they’ve set an identity. So, that was a key piece in my decision of looking at what is your identity. Once you get out here and really start getting the mass press, what is going to be your identity when they see that Aphid? Is it going to be automation or is it going to be this over here? And luckily, we were able to pivot before we actually “got out here.”

Mike Blake: [00:19:31] You said something that, again, I want to latch on to because it is so true that a failing business itself can be very toxic. I’ve been in a failing business before, and it was so toxic and so demoralizing on so many levels that the business itself can almost become a bully. And being able to pivot, this is really interesting, I’m learning something really interesting is that being able to pivot is so much dependent on the emotional state of mind that I’d be willing to bet you that every reason you think of not to pivot is probably, really, just an emotional facet to yourself trying to put up a barrier to making the hard decision.

Brandon Cooper: [00:20:25] Yeah, no question because it’s the work that you put in to it. If you build a house halfway up, no one wants to knock it down and start from the first brick again. And they would rather just continue to build a mediocre house and get mediocre results, but that’s never been me. I’d rather knock it down and start from scratch if that’s what it takes.

Mike Blake: [00:20:48] When you decide to pivot either one or both times, I mean, you talk about what were you able to salvage from the previous businesses or reuse from the previous businesses to help the next incarnation of the business be more successful? It could be anything. It could be physical assets. It could be lesson learned. It could be labor, skills that you could transfer over. Whatever it is, but were you able to salvage from the first incarnation to try to make the likelihood of the next incarnation would be more successful that much more likely?

Brandon Cooper: [00:21:25] It’s definitely putting time into people and understanding delegation. And the terms of order of importance is the idea itself. How scalable is it? Is this something that’s going to be here five years, 10 years, 20 years? And I try to do my best to anticipate the next 15 to 20 years. General Electric, it’s here for how long, right? Ford has been here for how long? And even though they make strides in there, but they’ve created businesses that don’t necessarily shift based upon fads or flip of a switch that can change things. So, that was important for me to say, “Okay. Well, ideas first.”

Brandon Cooper: [00:22:11] And then, the next one of things that I’ve salvaged and I’ve learned to answer your question is bringing in people that had the strengths that I didn’t have. So, whatever my weaknesses were, I brought with me and got out of the way. With this current team with Aphid, there are people on the team who have domain expertise in their particular department. I tell everyone on our team, you’re the CEO of your own position. I don’t micromanage them. They go in and they handle their own thing on their own on autopilot. And the previous team, there were people in a team, there was a lot of retention. People were always managing people in terms of babysitting, not just general managing, but babysitting them.

Brandon Cooper: [00:22:56] And if I have to tell you to do something, then it’s taking away time for me that’s stressing me out. So, I learned that to have people on your team that don’t require you every waking hour is a very, if not the most vital thing to the success of a company because Steve Jobs and all these people got a lot of credit, but there are so many people in the back end that helped these people. Even in sports, everyone gives praise to Aaron Rodgers and these kind of players in the NFL, but they have ball boys, coaches, nutritionists. These are all people who make LeBron James who he is and Tom Brady who he is, right? It is no different in business, whether that’d be a performance coach or your colleagues. I learn from my team. Even though they work with me and look up to me, it works both ways.

Mike Blake: [00:23:49] So, in your mind … I mean, we’ve talked about pivoting. Now, at any point, an option could have been to simply shut down and build something entirely new. Did that thought ever occur to you? And if so, why did you choose to go the way that you did as opposed to just blowing everything up, shutting it down and starting entirely new?

Brandon Cooper: [00:24:15] What occurred? It really was something universal and divine, to be honest with you, because an aphid is an insect that can clone itself. As I mentioned, the original premise was to just flood the internet full of these encrypted files, right?

Mike Blake: [00:24:33] Yeah.

Brandon Cooper: [00:24:33] And then, it would just reproduce at a really high rate. But it just so happened that when I was thinking about artificial intelligence and the reason for creating Aphid was because I was so tired of working for the company I was working for, I said, “Man, I wish I could just clone myself.” I’m so exhausted. I was stressed out. I had a therapist. I took a lot of leave of absence just because. And I worked from home. And I was in my pajamas, and still, just, it wasn’t for me. I just felt there was something pulling me, some energy field pulling me.

Brandon Cooper: [00:25:08] And because I said I wish I could just clone myself, I looked at AphidByte at the time, and I said, “Man, how can I have artificial intelligence work for me?” And I looked at it and I saw AphidByte. And I said, “Let’s just drop the Byte and make it Aphid.” Like there’s Apple, let’s just do Aphid. And it ended up working. Otherwise, it would have just been a different company name, but it fits so perfectly divine that I kept the name.

Mike Blake: [00:25:38] So, talk about your thought process, how you came across the current incarnation of artificial intelligence, and maybe tell the audience too because I did a very high level and probably bad job of describing the company. What’s Aphid doing now and how did you come across that idea that that’s what you’re going to put the new direction?

Brandon Cooper: [00:26:02] Yeah, I was looking to see how can something be at work for me, and make money for me, and I don’t have to be there, where I could spend more time with my family. Typically, we go to work and we get a paycheck every two weeks or some people get paid every week, but typically, it’s biweekly, right? So, I said, “Well, how can we make this go from horse and buggy to the electric car overnight?” And that’s basically creating a digital version of ourselves.

Brandon Cooper: [00:26:28] So, what we’ve created is a mechanism that allows people to earn from the efforts of bots. And what that means is we create a network of chatbot solutions for websites, and we basically take the digital version of yourself, put them on those sites as sales agents. And when it makes sales, you get a commission. So, now the Michael Bot or the John Bot goes on to those websites. If it sells an iPad or refrigerator, you as the controller of your bot, we call aClones, you get a commission. So, now, you’re in your sleep, you wake up, Michael Bot has sold five items. You’ve installed a plug-in for the Michael Bot to trade artificial intelligence, stock trading, or cryptocurrency trading. You can install those plug-ins to your bot, you can train it up to sell different things to people who want to license out your decision trees in terms of the artificial intelligence mechanism in our ID, which is our development system environment.

Brandon Cooper: [00:27:28] But yeah, it’s creating time leverage, right? Time is our biggest asset and we’re losing it every day. If you were to go into a job, and you started a job at 20, or let’s just say 23 out of college, and you’re working at Pfizer or whoever, just pick any company name, and they say, “All right. Well, here’s your 40-year plan,” and then they put how many hours you’re going to work and they time the hour and say, “Here’s your 63,000 hours that you have to work.” Walk to the company, saw on the wall every day, you will lose your brain looking up seeing 61,000. It will feel like you’re in prison. But we don’t look at it that way because the time is diced up and it’s hidden under the table.

Brandon Cooper: [00:28:11] But I know that. We know that it doesn’t work because we see the older people at Walmart, no disrespect, greeting people and everything. They say they’re tired, but the truth is they ran out of money because the system is technically a joke. So, we’re preventing the singularity, saying, “Hey, don’t be afraid about robots taking your jobs.” A robot taking our job is the only way we’re going to be able to spend more time with our family. We just need to pick those machines to a human. And when they work, you get paid. So, we’re going to start off on the internet with the chat bots, the digital agents, and then we’re eventually going to go into IoT and smart cities.

Mike Blake: [00:28:51] So, what’s been the timeline of this whole thing? How long is it taken you to get from starting AphidBytes to this current incarnation of Aphid?

Brandon Cooper: [00:29:03] We’ve done this in about a year and a half.

Mike Blake: [00:29:07] Okay. So-

Brandon Cooper: [00:29:07] Just like about on paper and everything that we’ve accomplished, it looks like about five years of work. We have a large team. Since the pivot, we’re now at almost 30 people in the company without funding.

Mike Blake: [00:29:22] So, without funding. So, just as an aside, I’m curious, how has that happened? Do you have your own funds to bankroll this thing or are you generating revenue now that’s able to support it? How is that working?

Brandon Cooper: [00:29:35] It’s all bootstrapped. And we’re working on our pilots now. So, everyone that’s in the company, believe it or not, has joined the company, they’re equity holders, and then they’re contracting people out as well. But they all believe in the project and glad to be on board. So, I can’t really explain to you how these many crazies have believed in the vision but they see it, and going to be a part of it, and have a piece of that pie. Yeah.

Mike Blake: [00:30:04] I have a feeling we may be coming back to ask you for another podcast because of what you’re describing sounds remarkable. That’s a major accomplishment in and of itself.

Brandon Cooper: [00:30:15] Thank you.

Mike Blake: [00:30:15] How quickly have you seen validation in your decision to pivot?

Brandon Cooper: [00:30:24] I think it only took, I would say, roughly about eight months is what it took for everything to really because we had to formulate the technology behind it, how it’s feasible economically, the tokenomics and the cryptocurrency, the digital asset that we’re creating takes a lot of work. So, I would definitely say at least 18 months.

Mike Blake: [00:30:50] And when you started this thing, you were originally in Atlanta. That’s how we know each other. And you moved out to California. Was the move part of that pivot process?

Brandon Cooper: [00:31:03] Yeah, a big part of the move was I felt like I exercised as much as I could for raising funds and the opportunity of what’s going to be best for the company. Silicon Valley is great, but I didn’t want to go there. I wanted a little bit of a nightlife too just in between. So, I came to LA and like second to third in terms of raising funds for technology with kind of back and forth between here and Austin, Texas beyond Silicon Valley. So, I saw that and said, “All right. Well, that’s a better opportunity for us.” I think the innovation in Atlanta is really stifled because there are people who don’t invest into real innovation. They play it safe. And to me-too companies, nice B2B companies and things like that, but there’s no real innovation. I love Atlanta. There’s no disrespect Atlanta and everything that Atlanta did for me, but the resources just weren’t there. And I honestly felt my presence wasn’t felt in Atlanta in terms of what I was doing with proximity and things like that. So, the pivot towards AI was made once I came to California.

Mike Blake: [00:32:21] Now, along the way, were there other people or resources that you withdrew upon that made the pivots easier than they otherwise might have been? Were their advisers? Were there sources of information? Networks? Anything like that that you kind of leaned on to help make this happen?

Brandon Cooper: [00:32:43] Not at all. It really was just the instinct and the gut. The advisers, at the time, wanted me to stay.

Mike Blake: [00:32:49] Really?

Brandon Cooper: [00:32:50] Yeah, they actually wanted me to stay, and I went against it. And I listened very well to the team and to the advisers, but I looked at the past, I just didn’t want to recreate that past into our future. And I saw the desert, and I had to go to uncharted waters to see what was out there and see what’s here. So, we’ve made great connections. And since I’ve moved out here, the press is night and day.

Mike Blake: [00:33:22] So, what do you attribute what appears to be a great calmness, at least, externally anyway? Where do you get this sort of calmness to pursue a pivot and the way you pursued your venture, the way that you have, frankly, without panicking because I think a lot of people in your position would panic? Where does that come from in your mind?

Brandon Cooper: [00:33:51] Knowing that one day, we’re all going to die and everything, in my opinion, is an illusion, some type of a test to see how bad you want it. But even though the failures occur and things don’t go your way, it’s just a test. It’s a grand test. And I want to be here to make history and just choose a business model that’s going to allow to, not from egotistical point, but just as a company, as the camaraderie of our culture and our company, that’s the most important.

Mike Blake: [00:34:33] So, a lot of businesses right now – just have time for a couple more questions here, but one I want to get to is a lot of businesses are pivoting in a certain extent the way AphidByte pivoted and that there’s an external event that was not foreseeable, that is just overnight rendering certain business models not just obsolete but, in some cases, physically dangerous. And their businesses are very much in jeopardy. Regardless of industry, if somebody were to ask you, “Brandon, I’ve got this business, but I just don’t think in the post-COVID, it’s going to be relevant anymore,” what would be the first couple of pieces of advice or maybe the questions you’d ask them, either one or both, about helping them think through that pivot and giving it a chance to be successful?

Brandon Cooper: [00:35:32] I would always say definitely get what’s changed before change gets with you because at that point, you become [bored with first books]. You become a blockbuster. And if you don’t know how to predict or try to forecast these changes in business or your industry, you probably don’t know your industry, and you have to look in the mirror, ask yourself, do you really know your industry or is this something that you just want to make some money, and you want to make an exit and sell it off because you know it’s a fad, it’s it’s a snuggy, or is this something that you want to pass down to your kids? And I think that’s the first question to ask.

Brandon Cooper: [00:36:12] And then, for the people who don’t know how to forecast or what that looks like in the near future or long-term future is to get a mentor, someone who sees it and knows the business. And you have mentors from afar. You can go on YouTube and see people, Gary V that these people will talk about. You have resources that are free. You don’t have to go to a conference and pay $2000 to get this information. We have the internet.

Mike Blake: [00:36:38] For sure.

Brandon Cooper: [00:36:39] You can piece it together and save yourself a lot of money and learn this information. But the wrong thing to do is to act as if you are a master of your business and you’re not. You have to be learning at all times and always be a student. If you’re not a student at all times, then you’re egotistical. And then, when you’re egotistical, the door’s going to smack you right in the face when you least expect it. You start in yourself. So, that’s really, really important. That would be my advice to that person.

Mike Blake: [00:37:14] Brandon, this has been a very helpful conversation. And I love how vulnerable you’re willing to be. I love how raw you are here. If there’s a question we haven’t covered that one of our listeners would like to ask, can they contact you? And if so, what’s the best way to do that?

Brandon Cooper: [00:37:33] Certainly. The company’s website is aphid.io. That is A-P-H-I-D-dot-I-O. And our social media is @aphidfs. FS is for free society. That’s our slogan, our motto. A-P-H-I-D-F-S, that’s on Instagram and Twitter, and as well as Facebook. And then, me personally is @brandonc00per, the Os in Cooper are zeroes. And that’s on Instagram and Twitter. I’m also on Facebook as well. Yeah.

Mike Blake: [00:38:08] Okay. Well, thank you for that. That’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. I’d like to thank Brandon Cooper so much for joining us and sharing his expertise with us today. We’ll be exploring a new topic each week, so please tune in, so that when you’re faced with your next executive decision, you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy this podcast, please consider leaving review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us, so that we can help them. Once again, this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision Podcast.

Tagged With: Aphid, artificial intelligence, blockchain, Brady Ware, Brady Ware & Company, Brandon Cooper, Machine Learning, Michael Blake, Mike Blake, pivoting your business

Zachary Pritchard with All Around Financial Coaching

November 13, 2020 by angishields

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Dallas Business Radio
Zachary Pritchard with All Around Financial Coaching
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Zachary-PritchardZach Pritchard is a leading expert in creating behavioral change through honest communication.

He has taken old information and process to create a new way to jump start success in areas such as personal finance, marriage, careers, personal development, and team culture.

Zach has taken part in many presentations and interviews in his career and is now the owner and CEO of All Around Financial Coaching as well as the host of the All Around Wellness podcast where we destroy self-deception in the eyes of business and personal growth.

He is also passionate to spend time with his wife and 3 kids in their newly built home in north Texas.

Connect with Zach on LinkedIn and follow All Around Financial Coaching on Facebook.

Dr. Jesse Jakubowski, Bay Center for Oral and Implant Surgery and Dr. Frank Yeh, Coastal Virginia Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

November 12, 2020 by John Ray

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Dental Business Radio
Dr. Jesse Jakubowski, Bay Center for Oral and Implant Surgery and Dr. Frank Yeh, Coastal Virginia Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery
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Dr. Jesse Jakubowski, Bay Center for Oral and Implant Surgery and Dr. Frank Yeh, Coastal Virginia Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery (“Dental Business Radio, ” Episode 8)

Dr. Jesse Jakubowski and Dr. Frank Yeh are representative of a new generation in oral surgery, and they join host Patrick O’Rourke to talk about getting into the industry, how they operate their respective practices, and the challenges presented by DSOs. Patrick also provides commentary on recent dental insurance industry maneuvers (example: fee reductions) happening now as we enter the homestretch of 2020; and how the choice of approach by the individual carriers to the provider community is acutely sensitive with long-term risk/reward impact. “Dental Business Radio” is underwritten and presented by Practice Quotient: PPO Negotiations & Analysis and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Bay Center for Oral and Implant Surgery

Bay Center for Oral & Implant Surgery has been providing oral and maxillofacial surgery to Pinellas and neighboring counties for over 30 years. They pride ourselves on providing the highest standard of care to their patients in a comfortable and safe environment. They have three convenient locations, all with the latest state-of-the-art technology needed to serve you and your family.

Jesse Jakubowski, Oral Surgeon/Owner

Dr. Jesse Jakubowski is the newest member of Bay Center for Oral & Implant Surgery, joining Dr. Horner and Dr. Jones in 2013.  He was born and raised in Wisconsin, attending the University of Wisconsin for his undergraduate education and is truly a “midwesterner” at heart.  He then decided to follow his father’s footsteps into the career of dentistry, moving to Fort Lauderdale to complete his dental training at Nova Southeastern University.

While at dental school he served in multiple leadership positions, including Student Government President and still is involved in leadership and community service to this day.  It was also during this time that he developed a passion for Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery and completed six externships throughout the country in this field.

After dental school he stayed in Fort Lauderdale and completed his Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery training at Nova Southeastern University and Broward Health Medical Center.  During his final year he served as Chief Resident of his surgical service and was also voted “Resident of the Year” by his peers.

Upon graduation Dr. Jakubowski and his lovely wife Kinga, an Optometrist, moved to St. Petersburg and joined Bay Center for Oral & Implant Surgery.  This allowed them to settle down closer to her hometown and family in Palm Harbor.  Together they enjoy almost any outdoor activity and love to involve their two boys, Carter and Bennett, and their fun loving Labrador Chloe.  They are avid sports enthusiasts and enjoy cheering on their hometown favorites from both Wisconsin and Tampa Bay.

In addition to his position at Bay Center for Oral & Implant Surgery, Dr. Jakubowski was previously Predoctoral Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Course Director at LECOM Dental School in Bradenton.  He truly enjoys being involved in academics, to both help educate the dentists of the future and also advance his own education.  He has published multiple articles in a variety of journals and most recently co-authored a book on lip cancer.

Dr. Jakubowski is board certified by the American Board of Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery and practices all aspects of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery.  He is a Diplomate of the American Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery and a member of the Florida Society of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, American Dental Association, Florida Dental Association, West Coast District Dental Association and Pinellas County Dental Association.  He is also a Diplomate and Fellow of the International Congress of Oral Implantologists, a member of the Academy of Osteointegration, and is certified in Basic Life Support (BLS) and Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS).

Coastal Virginia Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

At Coastal Virginia Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, patients come first. Their primary focus is to provide the highest level of compassionate care. From the very first phone call, they treat patients and their family like one of their own. They strive to provide exceptional oral and facial care in a comfortable and safe environment.

Their doctors constantly challenge themselves to stay abreast of the forefront of the specialty in order to provide the highest quality of treatment to every patient.

Their team is dedicated to excellence in patient care and aim to be empathetic, caring and efficient. They pledge to you, our patients, and each other our commitment to provide and inspire outstanding value: because WE CARE.

Frank Yeh, President, Oral Surgeon

While Dr. Yeh is from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, he headed to the University of Pittsburgh for his undergraduate studies, where he majored in Exercise Science. He decided to stay in Pittsburgh to complete his dental training, and it was while he was a student at dental school that he discovered his true passion for all things related to oral and maxillofacial surgery. This motivation allowed him to study under some of the most renowned oral surgeon experts in the field.

After graduating from dental school, Dr. Yeh headed to Newark to complete a one-year surgical internship at Rutgers University.

Show Transcript

Intro: [00:00:03] Live from the Business RadioX Studio in Atlanta, it’s time for Dental Business Radio. Brought to you by Practice Quotient. Practice Quotient bridges the gap between the provider and payer communities. Now, here’s your host, Patrick O’Rourke.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:00:18] Hi there. Welcome to Dental Business Radio friends of the dental industry. This is your host, Patrick O’Rourke. And we appreciate you listening to the show. It’s brought to you by Practice Quotient. Practice Quotient, PPO negotiations and analysis. You could do it yourself. You could have an office manager do it. You can also do your own taxes and represent yourself in a court of law. It doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. So, if there’s a lot of money on the table, you should go and give Practice Quotient a call.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:00:51] So, with that, I want to welcome our guest, Dr. Jesse Jakubowski of Bay Center Jaw Surgery.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:00:58] Hello. Thank you very much for having me, Patrick.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:01:01] It’s a pleasure to see you again, Jesse. And Dr. Frank Yeh of Coastal Virginia OMS. How are you, Frank?

Frank Yeh: [00:01:09] I’m doing great, Pat. Thanks for having us.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:01:11] It’s my pleasure. So, you know, as I was kind of talking to you guys prior to the show, you guys have a relationship with each other. I’m not sure which one of you I met first, actually. And you have some other compadres in your circle. And so, I talked to a lot of oral surgery practices and I’ve spoken to many, many of them across the country, and I consider you guys to be kind of the young guns of growing OMS practices. So, you’ve already done it. You’ve established yourself. And, you know, I’m sure you’ve learned quite a bit along the way. And so, that’s really what the theme of the show is. How did you guys meet?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:01:56] So, Frank and I were co-residents in residency at Nova Southeastern University, Broward General. So, we met – oh, jeez – we would have started residency in ’09, so we probably met at interviews in ’08. And we spent four years side-by-side in Fort Lauderdale. And so, we became pretty good buddies at that point. Then, I would say to this day, we probably talk, at least by text, almost on a daily basis about work, and patients, and things of that nature.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:02:31] Gotcha. I think that that’s terrific. We all need others around us, they’re going through the same things. You know, as a business owner/entrepreneur, you guys have it a little bit tougher, even. Because it’s like, well, hey, you’re a partner, you’re an owner, so you need to understand all the aspects of the business. You know, you’re the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, the website guy, the H.R. guy. You know, you need to understand the building. But, also, you need to put patients to sleep and make sure that you’re delivering quality care all at one time, you know, so that can be somewhat challenging. Could that be a correct assumption?

Frank Yeh: [00:03:12] Yeah. I mean, absolutely. You know, you learn all the stuff to be an oral surgeon in residency, you learn how to take wisdom teeth out and put implants in. But no one ever teaches you the business side of running a practice, no one teaches you the H.R. stuff, staff management. So, for me, it was kind of learn on the go.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:03:35] You know what cracks me up? When I did the chat on your website, I was like, “Hello, does this work?” And then, Frank answered and he was like, “Is this Patrick?” And I was like, “Is this Frank? Are you answering your own chat?” He’s like, “Yeah. I just want to make sure everything works fine.” That’s me. I kind of do the same thing too. I think that’s awesome. So, what are some of the challenges that you’ve overcame? Either one of you, feel free.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:04:09] Well, I think in general, like Frank said, they teach you how to do the surgery and how to take care of patients, but they don’t teach you how to run a business. So, I don’t know that it’s overcoming a challenge, but it’s definitely learning a lot more than just the basics of going to work, seeing patients, and going home. You know, you spend, at least, as much time on the business end and trying to figure out how to run a business, how to manage staff, the insurance end – which, obviously, you came in and helped us out on that side tremendously – just learning all of those things. And we’re a little bit over seven years out of residency, and I would say it took five years, probably, to figure out what you’re doing from a business standpoint before you could say, “All right. I can comfortably do this on my own.” And that’s just something that would be nice to have some sort of education on that prior and to leaving residency. But it’s not really operating, you know, dentistry, medicine. Nobody gets that training until you’re out on your own.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:05:16] Okay. Frank, thoughts?

Frank Yeh: [00:05:18] I completely agree. I mean, I think the biggest stress as an oral surgeon, as a business owner, is not so much the oral surgery side, not so much the putting the patients to sleep, and doing the surgeries, and taking care of the patients. It’s more of all the other business stuff, keeping staff happy, keeping the practice afloat. Especially during this COVID time – holy cow – we were shut down for two months, you know, trying to navigate through that. What a struggle that was. That was the most stressful part of our job. I think we all just come on and do what we are trained to do and take care of patients would be a lot easier. But, like Jesse said, I mean, we learn on the go. And it took us four or five years to finally get comfortable in where we’re at. The beauty of Jesse and I’s friendship is we’re always talking with one another, text messaging with one another, and bouncing ideas off each other. So, that’s the beauty of our friendship. But, yeah, I mean, I feel the same about Jesse.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:06:18] You know, when I started this business – you know, I came from corporate America and they were like, “Well, five years as an entrepreneur. It takes you five years.” And I was like, “Whatever. I’ll get this done in two years.” Five years goes by and you’re like, “Whoa. All right.” Now, I know what they’re talking about. There’s just a lot. You don’t know what you don’t know. And, you know, you get in there and there’s a lot of things that kind of suck your time, distract you. What do you think is an important part of being an oral surgeon that you aren’t taught? Is this aspect the most important thing that you wish was there? Or is there some other stuff that you feel, like, is critical from an education perspective?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:07:11] I’m sorry. Could you repeat the question? I kind of —

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:07:14] What do you think is the most important part of being an oral surgeon that you aren’t taught in school?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:07:22] You know, kind of like we talked about, I think a lot of it is how you treat people and how you deal with people. Now, you learn some of that in residency. But it’s more than just the patients. You know, you come out and you just have to treat people right. You have to treat your staff right. You have to treat your referrals right. You definitely have to treat your patients right. And, really, do what’s best for them and kind of go from there. And, really, it’s about people, a lot more than you would ever think. It’s about relationships and developing those relationships. And if you have strong relationships with your staff, and your patients, and your referrals and care about people, then, I think, you’ll be well, regardless.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:08:09] Fair. The golden rule. I like that.

Frank Yeh: [00:08:13] I completely agree with Jesse. I think it’s all about relationships. It’s not just relationships with patients and staff and referrals, but, you know, we’ve spent a few minutes here talking about the business side of our practice and how to be successful. You know, if someone taught you, “Hey, develop relationships with other professionals that are either insurance minded, accountants, attorneys.” If you get a successful network, have a successful relationship with all those people. You’ll be successful in practice.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:08:51] Gotcha. And so, as you’re five years past now – so oral surgeons, it takes a little bit longer to get through school, then you have to do residency – now, you have a business. And so, now, you turn a corner. And, now, do you feel like you’re hitting the gas? Well, Frank – and I kind of know the answer to this – it’s like you had one practice. You’re an associate and you become a partner. And, now, you’re like, “How am I going to grow?” Right? And so, do you feel like it turned the corner? Are you mashing the gas pedal or are you just trying to get a speed limit?

Frank Yeh: [00:09:28] Me, I’m always trying to mash the gas pedal as fast as I can, you know. That’s just the type of guy I am. But I think I’m still learning in every single day. You know, there’s always a new challenge that I’m met with every day. I mean, just recently, you know, we’re having problems with our practice management software system. And it’s a jump from that software system to another. It’s just whole different. It’s something you learn something every day. But I feel like I’m comfortable enough to know, what business ventures I want to start getting into. Like, you kind of mentioned I started off as just one practice, one office, gotten to two. I was 50 percent owner. Now, I’m 100 percent owner. And then, we went from two offices to three offices. So, I feel like I’m kind of getting the comfort level of the business aspect of it, where, now, I’m ready to just kind of take off.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:10:24] Gotcha. So, you have, like, a mogul clause too. You have to get special clause in order to be a mogul.

Frank Yeh: [00:10:31] Oh, yeah.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:10:33] So, you’ve been reading Mogul Magazine, I hope.

Frank Yeh: [00:10:35] That would be great.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:10:37] Very good. So, Jesse, in your situation, you walked into three successful practices in Pinellas County. Pinellas County, Florida, part of the Tampa Bay region. Go Bucs.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:10:52] Go Bucs.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:10:52] That’s right. And we’ll give a little shout out to all of our friends and family back home in Tampa in a little bit. For those of you who don’t know, your host, Patrick O’Rourke, is a Tampanion. I’m born and raised in the City of Tampa. That’s correct. Proud of it.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:11:07] So, Jesse, when I met you guys, you already kind of had a nice machine going, right? And so, now, it’s even nicer. So, as your pivoting, and you turn this corner, and you see some open ground – COVID has been a little speed bump, that’s for all of us. But, you know, I think that’s just temporary and a test of our gumption, if you will. So, I don’t want to get too deep into COVID, but I know it’s challenging. We all have a rut. But yours, still, the future is bright. So, what do you see as you pivot?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:11:47] Yeah. So, I had a little different situation than Frank did. I joined a group practice seven years ago. It was two practices. Pretty much right after I joined, we bought a third practice. I became a partner within about a year from that point. And, yes, I am less than very happy and lucky to get the partners that I got that treated me fairly and equally from day one. And I walked into a relatively well-oiled machine – not that it’s a machine, but you get the point. I worked in a very nice practice, a very well-respected practice that I’m very happy with. And so, we continue to be partners to the day. There’s three of us. This past summer, we did bring on an associate as well, so, now, there’s four of us with the three locations.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:12:41] And we’ll always be a group practice. You know, as soon as you guys are ready, you can join us as partner and we’ll keep doing what we’re doing. And the practice is doing well. Whether or not we’ll grow or we’ll expand, you know, I think that’s obviously a conversation I would have with my partners as opportunities arise. But at this point, I don’t think there are any plans for that. Just to continue working hard and, you know, the future is unpredictable. And so, you know, I’m always kind of the same way as Frank, and I like to keep my foot on the gas and just be prepared for anything that might get thrown at us. I’m very happy with what’s been handed to me as far as this location and my partners.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:13:33] Absolutely. I mean, you guys already have three and a very good footprint with an established reputation. You know, you don’t want to grow just for growth sakes. In my humble opinion, you know, we’re not growth oriented. We’re a bit of a boutique. I hate that word, but it’s kind of true. We’re not volume based. And it makes it to where you’re able to pick and choose and take only projects that you are sure that you’re going to be successful with, and work with people that you want to work with, and not run around with your hair on fire. So, that’s one part, for me, that I’ve learned over the years is that, there’s a little bit of a balance. You know, I’ve got two small kids. I know you guys have kids, too. And, you know, professional fulfillment is important. But, you know, one of the reasons – I assume is true for you guys, too – that we all work is to provide for our families and be good fathers, right?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:14:32] Absolutely.

Frank Yeh: [00:14:33] Yes.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:34] And so, kudo’s to both of you, though, too, because you’re both still very involved in your professional community. Frank, are you the president now of the Virginia Society Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons?

Frank Yeh: [00:14:48] Currently, I’m the vice-president of the Virginia Society of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons. Next year, it’ll be president.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:14:56] Gotcha. Very good. So, I’ve sat on some boards before. I mean, it’s a commitment multiple years, because you’ve got to go by secretary, treasurer, vice-president, president, which is like a whole second job, by the way.

Frank Yeh: [00:15:09] Oh, my gosh. Absolutely.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:15:10] And then, you’re the previous past president, which still has its obligations. It’s like after you work out, you have to have a routine afterwards, and the president is doing okay. So, that’s a lot to take on in addition to being a father, being a husband, and a business owner, and a mogul. So, what’s been the most satisfying thing about that type of time and effort spent for you?

Frank Yeh: [00:15:42] With the VSOMS?

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:15:44] Yes, sir.

Frank Yeh: [00:15:46] I’ll tell you what, no one ever tells you when you first commit to VSOMS to an officer position that, “Hey, this is a four year or five year commitment.” And I committed when I just had two kids and everything was going smooth. And, now, I got a third kid and I’m running around with my head cut off. But, you know, I really love this organization. It really helps, especially here in Virginia, keep our specialty in the forefront. It basically fights for our specialty, whether it’s in a [inaudible] rights, insurance rights, licensors. That’s really kind of the gratifying part about being an officer is, as you get inside scoop of what’s really going on with my profession. And I feel like what I’m really trying to do is try and protect my profession, try to protect my specialty here in Virginia. That’s always gratifying.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:16:41] Yeah. It’s key. It’s key. And, you know, you do some education and some professional development yourself, Jesse. Why don’t you to tell us about that?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:16:51] Yeah. Sure. I’m involved in a couple of things. I, actually, just became executive board on our County Dental Association, and so that’s a five year track to president. So, in five years, I’ll be president of that. So, that’s relatively new.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:17:08] Congratulations.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:17:09] I’m looking forward to that commitment. And I’m sure I’ll be struggling with the time commitment once it gets down in a few years from now. But, now, I’m happy with the decision, so that’ll be good. In addition to that, as far as other things like we talked about, we do some lecturing and clubs for the dentists and staff in our area. So, we do that as a practice, probably, five or six times a year. And that had been a pretty big group, 150 or so per study club. And we did start that back up this fall. But we’re kind of limited in space, so we’re down to about 70 attendees and we’ve had two lectures this fall. So, we do that, which is a great way to get out there and talk to dentists, and teach, and educate, and get feedback from them.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:18:05] In addition, I lecture at a local VA. It has a general practice residency, and so I go there and lecture to their residents. It’s a year. So, I’m still active with lecturing to some of the LECOM groups. LECOM is Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, which has a branch down in Bradenton. And so, I had taught at that school for the first two years I was out of residency. I was oral surgery program director there for two years. And then, I went fulltime at private practice. But I’m still involved with them and I still have students that come up and shadow me from the school as well. So, kind of a little bit all over the place with the education. But it’s still nice to stay involved and to talk to people and teach.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:18:57] Gotcha. It’s nice to help people, right? It’s fulfilling giving back. You know, trying to say, “Hey, look out for these potholes too.” Do you ever get involved in the business conversations?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:19:12] Not necessarily. But the dental students are so focused on dentistry and oral surgery. You know, the funny thing is, like, I love finance, I love personal finance, I love tax law. Honestly, if I go back and teach again at LECOM, I would love to give them, like, a little mini-finance course or business course or something like that just to prepare them more than I was prepared, because that’s really key to that.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:19:41] I think you should for sure. I think that’s a brilliant idea.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:19:48] Yeah. Yeah. It’s on my radar for the future, so we’ll see how things unfold.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:19:54] And this has just been my observation and this is anecdotal, but, you know, just kind of two schools – and I say the new school. But the new school of doctor/owners are more entrepreneurial in mindset and spirit. They tend to be more – they’ve done their research. They’ve done their homework. You know, they have a pretty firm grasp of, at least, where they want to go. And they thirst for that knowledge. And they’ll just kind of I’m going to do my work and I’m going to be the best at this. They understand that it’s business as well. And you guys are like the tip of the spear of that new school.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:20:38] You know, I think everyone carries so much more debt now that if you’re not business minded, you’ll never be able to tackle the half-a-million dollars in debt you’re in after you’re done with residency. And so, unfortunately, it’s an unfortunate/fortunate consequence that you become business minded because you need to.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:21:01] That’s a really good point. Really good point.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:21:07] Absolutely.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:21:07] Frank, anything to add?

Frank Yeh: [00:21:07] Absolutely. I mean, you learn all the necessary tools that you need to be an oral surgeon when you come out of residency. You know, I think Jesse and I are just down to earth generally nice guys, so we treat our patients well. We’re always going to do the right thing. But what we’ve kind of learned over the years is that, if you look at the trend of not just oral surgery, but dentistry. Dentistry is probably more ahead of our time than oral surgeons are. But, you know, if you look at the trends of Google, outpatient marketing, public marketing, you really need to start having that kind of business mindset if you want to be successful in life or successful in business. And just like Jesse said, our debt load these days is just astronomical, that if you just sit back and just expect patients to come through your door because of just your name and the way you treat people, that’s old times now.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:22:05] Or if you are extremely good looking like Frank Yeh.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:22:13] Is that what you do in Norfolk and Virginia Beach, you just put on big, like, billboards of your face, Frank?

Frank Yeh: [00:22:19] Oh, man. Billboards with my face on it or I’ll just have signage on corners of some streets, newspaper ads.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:22:29] You should do it like you and your wife, though. I think you’d get better results that way.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:22:37] There you go.

Frank Yeh: [00:22:37] You’re more good looking than I am.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:22:40] So, yeah, I think the days of just hanging a shingle and, you know, being fine is great. You know, “Hey, people come in to me because I’m the doc.” Like, those days are gone. And, you know, there’s been corporate or, you know, private equity money in dentistry for a while. I got into specialist fairly recently within the past few years. And I’m sure you guys are somewhat aware of it, neutral towards it. You know, but there’s one thing that I’ve observed and I tell a lot of clients and I’m like, “Look, bud. If you just go out and go shake some hands and kissing babies and make yourself available in the community, your local Chamber of Commerce. You know, maybe even if you don’t like people, like, why don’t you send somebody out there.” If you’re not a good looking guy like Frank Yeh or Jesse, you know, go hire somebody that’s very friendly and personable and have them go out and represent your practice. Because familiarity breeds trust, you know. And so, you know, your website is important. Google reviews is really important. But it’s also, you know, health care always has remained and will be inherently local, in my opinion. You know, just health care is local. That’s that. What do you think of that statement? Frank, we’ll go with you first.

Frank Yeh: [00:24:08] That health care is local? I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. I think you make a name for yourself in your local community by treating patients right. I mean, talking about external marketing, you know, you treat these patients right. They’re going to tell their family members. Their family members will come to you. Yeah, I think for sure, health care is always going to be a local thing, if I’m understanding that question correctly.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:24:38] Yeah. I mean, I was just kind of making a statement, so I guess not too much to comment on there. Jesse, would you like to add anything.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:24:45] No.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:24:45] No?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:24:45] I agree.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:24:46] Fair enough. Is there anything special that you guys do besides – you know, hey, were all surgery practice, but is there a niche that your practice does differently and/or better than most people or most other oral surgery practices, you know, with all due respect? What do you think sets you apart? And we’ll go with Jesse first on this one.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:25:13] Sure. You know, it’s funny, when I joined the practice, the practice name was Bay Center for Jaw Surgery, because before I had joined and well before I joined, they weren’t even doing orthognathic surgery anymore when I joined. But one of the big niches of the practice was orthognathic jaw surgery. And over the years, we did less and less and we did a lot more dental alveolar and implants. And so, pretty quickly after I joined, we changed the name to Bay Center for Oral and Implant Surgery because it more accurately described what we were doing on a daily basis. We’re doing oral surgery, office based oral surgery. And we’re doing a lot of dental implants.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:25:57] And so, not that implants is a niche to our practice because, obviously, a lot of practices do implants. But more specifically, within that niche and one of the things that I’ve grasped on, too, personally, are immediate implants. And I would say that’s my niche within a niche. You know, majority of the implants that I place are placed at the same time of the extraction. And this is something that I feel like I’m well known for in the area, that if somebody has a patient and they want to have the implant placed at the same time of the extraction, they’re going to send them to me because they know that if it can be done, I will be able to do it.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:26:39] And so, I feel like that’s something that I’ve grasped onto and I’m able to provide that for the referrals, for the patient. You know, it’s less time of a wait for healing. When you’re looking at, you know, four or five months total versus eight or nine months total and you’re looking at less surgery, if you can do everything at once, ultimately, happier patients and happier referral, if you can do that at the same success rate and the same results, which I feel like I can. And so, that’s kind of my little thing that I do and I really enjoy doing. It makes the cases slightly more complicated, but I’m doing them all day, every day, and so I love it.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:27:22] So, can I restate that in my own words to make sure I understand?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:27:27] Yes, sir.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:27:28] So, I’m the patient, what you’re saying is, let’s say, I need to have five teeth extracted out of the lower portion of my mouth – so I forget. Which mandibular – is that the mandibular?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:27:42] Sure. The mandible.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:27:42] The mandible. All right. The lower mandible. I can have them extracted and then you’re going to put implants on the same day?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:27:53] Yeah. And, you know, obviously, I can’t do it for everybody. So, I’m clinically evaluating. I’m taking a CT scan on pretty much everybody to see what the bone looks like, making sure there’s no active infection, making sure there’s adequate bone to get me primary stability on the implants. And then, a lot of times, I’m at least immediately placing them. Now, this doesn’t mean that they get teeth on them necessarily the same day. That would be immediate placement and immediate provisionalization, which we can do in some cases. But you need to have a very compliant patient for that.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:28:25] And so, immediate placement means that I can take the tooth out and put the implant in, and leave it in there for four months, and then they get a tooth back at the end. Versus a more conventional way, you take the tooth out, your bone graft, you wait four months, you’ll re-evaluate, you place an implant, you wait another four months, and then they get the tooth back. And so, that’s a conventional way to do it. But majority of the time, I’m taking the tooth out and I’m putting the implant in the same day. And in some cases, I’m taking a tooth out, I’m putting the implant in, and we’re putting in a provisional tooth on it the same day. So, it just kind of varies case-by-case. But I’m doing that, more than half of the implants I place are that way.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:29:08] Well, it sounds like a whole lot of awesome as a consumer, because it’s one thing I can’t make more of is time. So, if I need something done, you know, I don’t want to wait for months and make a bunch of appointments. So, the more we can knock it out, especially if we have an established high degree of quality, you know, that’s attractive to busy people. You know, I mean, everybody’s busy. But as a business owner, time is money. I think that’s awesome. I learn something new every day about oral surgery. I did not know that you had the extraction, then you wait – then you put it in the screw?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:29:49] Implant.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:29:50] Right. Right. To a layman, right?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:29:52] It looks like a screw, yeah.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:29:52] Not all oral surgeons listen to this show. Tom Brady could be listening to the program.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:29:58] He is. I texted him earlier, so he’ll be listening.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:30:02] Antonio Brown is listening to it too. Listen, you guys are doing a great job as a lifelong and in long suffering Buccaneers fan. Bravo.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:30:12] This is going to be an interesting year, that’s for sure.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:30:14] So, to us regular patients, it’s a screw. I got to pull it out. You’re going to put a screw in there. And what happens is, I’ll walk out with a screw mouth?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:30:29] So, you know, everything’s usually covered with tissue and bone when we’re done. So, you walk out, it looks like nothing happened. You look in there, you just see a hole where the tooth was. It undergoes a phase called osseointegration, which means the bone fuses to the outside of the implant. It kind of becomes a part of your body. And that can take around four months or so. And so, it just sits in there. Usually, you know, if it’s a front tooth, we get something temporary, removable made that you can wear while it heals. If it’s a back tooth, we kind of usually just leave it out and you just go without the tooth for four months.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:31:03] Like Dracula teeth?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:31:05] It could be. I mean, if you wanted it, we can make that happen. But usually normal teeth.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:31:09] Gotcha. It’s all done. So, all right. I did know know that. So, you have the interim, then you come back, and then you’re putting on the top – which I’ve seen many times like almost. You know, I’ve seen the demos – and then you put the cap on, which looks better than my normal teeth, basically.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:31:29] Yeah. Definitely. Definitely better than your teeth. Definitely.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:31:32] Yeah. I’ll be coming down there. I need stuff. I didn’t know I could get it done that quick. We could do it over Thanksgiving. Yeah, I definitely need to. I know sometimes clients look at my mouth and I’m like, “Hey, eyes up here, buddy. Eyes up here. I see what you’re looking at.”

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:31:47] You have a beautiful smile. You have a beautiful smile.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:31:55] Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I don’t want to be too pretty. You know, Frank Yeh, you can’t use Jesse’s.

Frank Yeh: [00:32:05] No.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:32:06] So, you’re going to have to come up with something else that’s cool about your practice.

Frank Yeh: [00:32:10] You got it. So, no, we don’t do that. We are your typical wisdom teeth implants, dental extractions, but we don’t do nearly the volume that Jesse does. I feel like our niche here in our practice would be orthognathic surgery. And it’s funny that I got into a practice that does a lot of orthognathic surgery. In residency – oh, my gosh – that was not a procedure I enjoyed. I don’t know if you enjoyed it, Jesse. But doing it down there at Nova, I did not like it. It took us eight hours to do a double jaw. So, I got out of residency thinking I’m not going to do another orthognathic surgery. But things happen for a reason. I got into this office, it does a lot.

Frank Yeh: [00:32:58] We do, probably, about ten to twelve double jaws a year. And I found that I’ve grown to really enjoy it, to really like it, to change someone’s life by just changing their smile. Just putting their jaws in a better position. Correcting their bite, whether it’s a bite problem, a TMJ problem. Some patients come to me and say, “Hey, I have sleep problems. I have sleep apnea and I hate my CPAP.” So, let’s do orthognathic surgery. And I find that procedure in itself to be very, very gratifying, very life changing.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:33:33] That’s interesting. I’ve heard that. So, orthognathic surgery, from what I’ve been told – we have a lot of oral surgery clients – is very satisfying and it’s also complex and very labor and time intensive. You have to create models. This is not a small procedure at all, right?

Frank Yeh: [00:33:52] No.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:33:52] And it’s not one of the things – it’s a high frequency. So, I mean, I’m an insurance guy, you know, it’s not something that shows up in the claims report as, you know, a spike claim or something that has a high degree of cost risk. And so, it doesn’t get much of a second thought, really. So, the people that are doing the underwriting on it in medical, they’re dealing with dialysis, they’re dealing with chronic conditions, they’re dealing with, it’s not millions, but billions of dollars. So, orthognathic doesn’t get the time and consideration that it deserves. And they don’t have the time to, you know, compensate folks appropriately.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:34:36] So, for those of my insurance friends that are listening to the show, hello. And there you go, there’s some work to do on orthognathic. I realized it’s not a slice of the health care cost buy, but it does make a difference in patients’ lives. And I’ve heard this from several oral surgeons across the country and they struggle with it, they stopped doing orthognathic surgery because the reimbursements are so awful. They just can’t afford to put in the time and labor to do it right, which is sad.

Frank Yeh: [00:35:07] Absolutely. That’s one of the biggest downfalls of orthognathic surgery. That’s why oral surgeons don’t want to do it. Let’s face it, you spend about five or six hours in a hospital to do a procedure, take on higher risks, where you probably just stay in the office and do two or three sets of wisdom teeth and make the same amount of money and take the lower risk. Here in our practice, we feel like we want to offer that service to our patients. Not just our patients, but to our orthodontist. You know, we know that not all patients can be corrected with braces or just Invisalign, so we want to provide that service to them.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:35:43] Excellent point. I think that’s very noble of you. And you’re probably one of the very few to do that in the Greater Virginia Beach-Norfolk area, right?

Frank Yeh: [00:35:55] Mm-hm.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:35:55] There you go. What are you guys seeing out there that is troublesome or that’s causing you to lose sleep at night? Jesse, we’ll go to you.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:36:08] I would say, in general, from a business standpoint, and not from COVID or from the election or things of that nature but from a business standpoint, the expansion of DSOs buying private practices and converting, just in the seven years I’ve been in practice here, I think between our three offices, there’s, maybe, around 200 practices that could refer to us that are in our area.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:36:40] And I would say over seven years, I’ve seen close to 10 percent of those sell out and be bought out by a DSO. Even if it’s a smaller one where they only have four or five locations, in seven years, seeing almost, probably, around 10 percent or close to 10 percent of private practices not being private practices anymore. It’s a disturbing trend that, ultimately, from a specialist standpoint, you know, when you say, “Well, why does that matter to you?” Well, obviously, there’s less people referring us patients. You know, I don’t know if people know this, but most of DSO’s model is to keep all procedures within the practice. And that usually means that they are hiring an outside oral surgeon or periodontist to come in to their four or five locations and do all of their oral surgery. And someone else to do all of the perio and someone else do all the endo. So, they have their own specialists.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:37:44] And so, although DSOs aren’t buying specialty practices, they don’t want to. They don’t need to. They want to buy dental offices and then put specialists inside of them and increase revenues secondary to that. And so, that’s probably the biggest threat out there to a private practice. Not just oral surgeon, but specialists in general is, as more dentists get bought out by DSOs, there’s going to be less and less patients referred out to us. And if I saw 10 percent go in seven years, does that mean in, you know, within 70 years that everything’s going to be DSO? Probably not. But you see where the trend is going.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:38:30] And so, what’s your observation, would they bring in specialists in-house? Or they own the general dentist to do the implants and put people to sleep? Or are they going to get the kid that’s got half-a-million dollars in debt and having them run six practices all over Pinellas, Hillsborough, Hernando, Pasco Counties?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:38:49] Yeah. I mean, some of them will try to get the dentist to do as much as they possibly can. So, if the dentist can do implants, if the dentist is going to take a weekend sedation course, you know, different things like that, they might try to do that. And then, like I said, a lot of them will hire somebody, a specialist, to come in and do the special treatment that needs to be done and not refer that out.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:39:15] Can I learn to put people to sleep in a weekend?

Frank Yeh: [00:39:21] To quote, “Yes, you can.” There are courses out there, you can do it in a weekend.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:39:30] That, I could. Right? That’s disturbing.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:39:33] Well, not you. But, you know, there are courses for general. So, Frank and I went to residency for four years, where we were sedating people on a daily basis for four years, where we were doing a four month rotation in an OR with an anesthesiologist intubating patients and sedating patients. And this four year process to get to where we are, and that’s where our training came from. That’s how we learned how to sedate patients safe. And there are options for people who don’t go that route to do continuing education courses and get certified in conscious sedation as a general dentist or as a different specialist. So, you can undergo that training and get a permit for conscious sedation as a general dentist. Yes.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:40:30] Got it. All right. So, if somebody is not a doctor, “I don’t have any health care background. I can’t do it.”

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:40:34] You still have to become a doctor first and then take the weekend course.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:40:38] Being a doctor would make my mom real proud. Hi, mom. But none the stars for me. Okay. Well, that makes me feel a little bit better. And I was like, “What can I learn in a weekend? Get a rubber mallet?” I know how to do that now, anyway. But I don’t know what the actual health care outcome would be. All right. So, that makes sense.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:41:06] And so, if they’re keeping everything in-house, I can see that. Not really any solution there except to be vigilant and make sure you do a good job. And, you know, luckily you’re in a pretty good market and you’ve got a mean well-oiled machine going on.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:41:28] Frank, is it the same thing for you or is there anything else keeping you up at night besides COVID, the election, your kids, and corporate dentistry buying up all of your referring general dentist practices?

Frank Yeh: [00:41:42] Yeah. You know, so we got DSO here too. For Tom Brady, if you’re listening, DSOs are just basically business ventures, you know, non-dentists businessmen who are going out and buying dental practice to put on their portfolio. So, the difference in that mindset is, they’re business first and then patient care second.

Frank Yeh: [00:42:05] Whereas, Jesse and I, we’re always about patient care first. Yeah, we’re business minded folks, but we’re about patient care first, then we’re about the business. We got DSO here in the area as well. They’re kind of getting big. I think my CPA once told me, you either get succumb to it or you play their game. And, hence, I went ahead and bought another oral surgery and bought out his office. And I considered doing that here in the near future. Not so much to have the same business model. It’s just to have a bigger presence in the area. And that’s less to worry about if DSOs are coming in and and taking up all these dental offices.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:42:51] Market power.

Frank Yeh: [00:42:52] Market power, absolutely. But I think what really keeps me up at night is, like I texted you a couple of days ago, where we got this nice little postcard from one of our insurance carriers that said, “Hey, we got a deal for you. We’re going to get some new patients for you.”

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:43:11] New patients. Good news, new patients. It’s always new patients. That’s bad news, baby.

Frank Yeh: [00:43:18] I’m like, I’m sold while we go online and find out our fee schedule has been decreased about 10 to 15 percent. And it is so demoralizing, because after COVID, as offices – I know, Jesse, you’re the same way – we’ve taken on more expenses with PPEs, gloves and gowns. The prices have gone up and the medical supplies have gone up. The medications have gone up. To run a business, everything has gone up. Now, to hear the insurance companies kind of reimburse you less and less, that’s what’s really disheartening. And that’s what really keeps me up at night.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:44:01] Well, that would make two of us. You know, thank you for bringing that up. Actually, it’s something that we’re trying to get the word out. To my friends and colleagues in the insurance industry who may be listening to this, this is the challenge, right? So, I can see Frank right now and his beautiful face. You guys can’t see his face. You guys are all in board rooms. You’re making decisions. And I’m a little bit disappointed and some of us being in the insurance industry that, you know, I figured that COVID would kind of bring us all together and we’d be somewhat reasonable and not use it as an opportunity to – you know, I get it. Hey, it’s business. You got to control your costs of care. We see an opportunity that we can bring our costs of care down for years to come. I get it.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:44:55] At the same time, you got business owners out there doing the best that they can and they’re buying all this equipment. And it’s not like they’re charging your full fee. I’m familiar with the contracts. The discount is fair. And so, now, we’re going to slice them even more. You know, and I’m sure to be fair to everybody and respectful, I know that there’s two camps in that boardroom. I know there is. And there’s one camp that says we’ve got to do what we got to do. And the other camp is like, “You know what? Our product here is the doctors. It is the network.” And the last thing I will say to all of you who are listening, you can only tax the people so much before they throw your metaphorical tea into the harbor.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:45:54] And I will leave the rest of the conversations to be in private. But thank you very much, Frank, for that. That definitely keeps me up at night. There’s not just one carrier right now. There’s a couple of them. And some of them, you know, to be fair, carriers are all different. They’re not all doing the same thing. Some carriers are doing really awesome things, helping out the provider community, helping out the member community, helping out their own local communities. And some of them are using this as an opportunity to be unfair, and I’m being as polite as I can.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:46:36] So, with that, let’s see here, what else do we want to talk about? What is unique about the Virginia Beach ecosystem? You know, your market there, what do you love about Virginia Beach and Norfolk?

Frank Yeh: [00:46:58] Oh, my gosh. So, you know, first I had no ties to Virginia Beach whatsoever. I am a Pennsylvania guy, so I grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. I went to Pittsburgh for eight years for undergrad and dental school. And then, I moved down to Fort Lauderdale for all sorts of training. When I got out, I realized, man, Fort Lauderdale was too damn hot. Pennsylvania is too damn cold.

Frank Yeh: [00:47:23] So, I literally took a map and I told my wife – my fiance at the time – I said, “Listen, let’s look on the map. Virginia Beach, North Carolina. In the middle between Pennsylvania and Florida, so that’s got to be the best of both worlds.” So, we took a shot and came up here and we’ve been up here for seven years now. We just love it. So, living in Virginia Beach, we got, obviously, the beach. When you want to go to the beach, it’s right down the road. But if I’m tired of the beach, I want the mountains, I drive three or four hours west of the pier, past Richmond to Charlotte, I got the mountains. If I want to go to D.C., it’s a four hour drive up north of D.C. So, it’s got a little bit of everything here. It’s a great community to raise kids. There’s a lot of cool events and farms that kids love up here. So, from a community standpoint, we just love it up here. There’s so much to do.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:48:17] That’s why I like that area too. And being from Florida, it is too hot. That’s why I’m here. And then, you keep going north, there’s snow. I can’t. This is as far north as we’re going to get. My wife is also a native Floridian from Broward County. She’s East Coast Florida. I’m West Coast Florida. There is a difference for those of us that are Floridians know. Jesse, are you native Floridian? Are you from the sunshine?

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:48:44] No. I’m from Wisconsin.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:48:47] Okay. So, you got down here like, “Holy smokes, no snow. This is awesome.”

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:48:54] Yeah. So, I did move to Florida just with the thought of getting out of Wisconsin for a while. And then, I would go back to Wisconsin, where my dad was a dentist and I would join his practice, and the rest would be history. That being said, I ended up in dental school, decided I wanted to do oral surgery. I also met my wife, who is from Clearwater, Florida. And so, we set our sights on the West Coast after residency. Ended up in St. Petersburg.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:49:28] West coast of Florida, you mean.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:49:30] West coast of Florida, correct. And you’re right, there is a difference. You know, the East Coast, and particularly Fort Lauderdale and Miami, people are not as nice as they are in the St. Petersburg area. I will leave it at that. So, we ended up in St. Pete’s, closer to her family. And the same thing, I love it here. Summers are hot, okay. But, right now, for the next eight months, it’s going to be beautiful here. You know, just get out on the water. You know, I love fishing and we’re going to be doing the big King of the Beach Kingfish Tournaments this weekend, so I’ll be doing that with some friends, which are fun. And, you know, we’ll be fishing while everybody else is shoveling. So, you know, we got that going for us.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:50:18] I’m coming back home. It’s gotten gotten cold all of a sudden, I’m like, “Okay. We’re going back to Tampa for a little bit.” My son loves fishing. That’s the only thing he loves more than video games. I don’t know. He just digs it. He watches, like, fishing shows and stuff too. Like every chance I get to, you know, I take him out fishing. He digs it.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:50:40] Awesome.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:50:40] And he’s, like, not hating me for pulling him off of the video games or making him play basketball or something. So, yeah, this is the time of year where I really miss Florida. And, you know, sometimes people call me, like, from Cleveland or even Wisconsin and they’re like, “Hey, Pat.” – non-COVID times – “will you come speak at our study club or meeting.” And I’m like, “In February? Nuh-uh. No.” I don’t own the clothes that would get me, like, from the airport into the car and get around safely without freezing to death. I don’t think. You have to have special clothes and underwear. So, those of you that are up north, God bless you. I really hope that you are enjoying this show. We’re not judging. We’re just saying that you guys have it harder and so you’re tougher. Rock on.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:51:31] Let’s see here, so before we wrap this program up, is there anybody that you would like to give special mentions to? We’ve already talked about the Virginia Society for Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons. Laura Givens, how are you? The Florida Society for Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons. Hank, how are you? The Florida Dental Association. I’ll give a little shout out to Mike being down there, the association partner. I’ll send this to you. I’d also like to say hello to the Catacali family, Aparicio, McCain Love Nunez, Mike Cole in Tampa, Argus Dental, the Zambrano family, my family, everybody in Tampa. I’ll be coming back soon. Anybody who like to say hello to, say thank you for your support. Frank, we’ll go with you.

Frank Yeh: [00:52:26] I just want to thank, first of all, Jesse, actually. Really, he was the guy who introduced me to you. So, thank you, Jesse, for hooking me up with Patrick. He’s done wonders here in our office in the past two or three years, and so we’ve really got to know one another. But, more importantly, I just want to thank my oral surgery program professors, my attendings out there, Dr. Coleman, Dr. McClure, Dr. Lopez. I mean, you guys are the ones who are the reasons why we’re capable of doing what we can do, teaching us the necessary tools and lessons that we can go and treat patients. So, thank you to them.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:53:12] I like that. Jesse, you’re up.

Jesse Jakubowski : [00:53:16] Sure. Sure. Well, thank you, Patrick, for having us on your show. I appreciate that. And Frank Yeh for helping make that happen as well. And the same shout out to Nova Southeastern University and our faculty there. You know, they provided us with a great education and gave us the building blocks to build on for what we’ve become today. You know, obviously, my wife and kids as well for supporting me through my education and my career. And then, my partners at the practice for just giving me the opportunity to join and really join something special here in Pinellas.

Patrick O’Rourke: [00:53:57] Terrific. I’d like to thank both of you, not just for being guests, but for your confidence and, you know, your business place in Practice Quotient. I’m pretty sure you guys are happy with it. I appreciate your referrals and all the nice things that you say about me in public and in private. And I’d also like to thank John Ray and all the team at Business RadioX Studios for making things happen. They do a great job producing the show. And, of course, we need to thank our sponsor, Practice Quotient, PPO Negotiation and Analysis. A national firm that specializes in strategic guidance on all of your PPO, UDHMO, and EPO contracts. You need to talk to an expert when the stakes are high. So, thank you very much to Practice Quotient and everybody on the Practice Quotient team. Scott and Nikki, hello. You guys do a great job. Thank you very much. So, with that, this is your host, Patrick O’Rourke, with Dental Business Radio with the young guns of OMS signing off. Until next time.

About Dental Business Radio

“Dental Business Radio” covers the business side of dentistry. Host Patrick O’Rourke and his guests cover industry trends, insights, success stories, and more in this wide-ranging show. The show’s guests will include successful doctors across the spectrum of dental practice providers, as well as trusted advisors and noted industry participants. “Dental Business Radio” is underwritten and presented by Practice Quotient and produced by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Practice Quotient

“Dental Business Radio” is sponsored by Practice Quotient. Practice Quotient, Inc. serves as a bridge between the payor and provider communities. Their clients include general dentist and dental specialty practices across the nation of all sizes, from completely fee-for-service-only to active network participation with every dental plan possible. They work with independent practices, emerging multi-practice entities, and various large ownership entities in the dental space. Their PPO negotiations and analysis projects evaluate the merits of the various in-network participation contract options specific to your Practice’s patient acquisition strategy. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

Connect with Practice Quotient:

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Tagged With: Bay Center for Oral and Implant Surgery, Coastal Virginia Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, dental insurance industry, Frank Yeh, Jesse Jakubowski, Patrick O'Rourke, PPO Negotiations & Analysis, Practice Quotient

Decision Vision Episode 90: Should I Franchise my Business? – An Interview With Lauren Fernandez, The Fernandez Company

November 5, 2020 by John Ray

The Fernandez Company
Decision Vision
Decision Vision Episode 90: Should I Franchise my Business? - An Interview With Lauren Fernandez, The Fernandez Company
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Decision Vision Episode 90:  Should I Franchise my Business? – An Interview With Lauren Fernandez, The Fernandez Company

Lauren Fernandez of The Fernandez Company joins host Mike Blake to discuss what considerations business owners should weigh before becoming a franchisor, the legal foundations a franchise organization must establish, the success factors in running a franchise organization, and much more. “Decision Vision” is presented by Brady Ware & Company.

Lauren Fernandez, The Fernandez Company

The Fernandez Company specializes in helping restaurant brands grow from 2 units to 20 and beyond. Lauren Fernandez is fully immersed in the restaurant industry as an operator, developer and executive with deep business and industry understanding. The Fernandez Company generates new revenue streams for companies, particularly in the food & hospitality industries. They diversify revenue streams outside the four walls of a restaurant by creating new channels of revenue in the areas of organic expansion, franchising, product development and licensing. They create this growth for their clients through  their process of strategic consulting, management support and investment.

Learn more at their website.

Mike Blake, Brady Ware & Company

Mike Blake, Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series

Michael Blake is Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series and a Director of Brady Ware & Company. Mike specializes in the valuation of intellectual property-driven firms, such as software firms, aerospace firms and professional services firms, most frequently in the capacity as a transaction advisor, helping clients obtain great outcomes from complex transaction opportunities. He is also a specialist in the appraisal of intellectual properties as stand-alone assets, such as software, trade secrets, and patents.

Mike has been a full-time business appraiser for 13 years with public accounting firms, boutique business appraisal firms, and an owner of his own firm. Prior to that, he spent 8 years in venture capital and investment banking, including transactions in the U.S., Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.

Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm which helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality. Brady Ware services clients nationally from its offices in Alpharetta, GA; Columbus and Dayton, OH; and Richmond, IN. The firm is growth minded, committed to the regions in which they operate, and most importantly, they make significant investments in their people and service offerings to meet the changing financial needs of those they are privileged to serve. The firm is dedicated to providing results that make a difference for its clients.

Decision Vision Podcast Series

“Decision Vision” is a podcast covering topics and issues facing small business owners and connecting them with solutions from leading experts. This series is presented by Brady Ware & Company. If you are a decision maker for a small business, we’d love to hear from you. Contact us at decisionvision@bradyware.com and make sure to listen to every Thursday to the “Decision Vision” podcast.

Past episodes of “Decision Vision” can be found at decisionvisionpodcast.com. “Decision Vision” is produced and broadcast by the North Fulton studio of Business RadioX®.

Visit Brady Ware & Company on social media:

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/brady-ware/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bradywareCPAs/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BradyWare

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bradywarecompany/

Show Transcript

Intro: [00:00:01] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions. Brought to you by Brady Ware & Company. Brady Ware is a regional, full-service accounting and advisory firm that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality.

Mike Blake: [00:00:21] And welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we discuss the process of decision making on a different topic from the business owners’ or executives’ respective. We aren’t necessarily telling you what to do, but we can put you in a position to make an informed decision on your own and understand when you might need help along the way.

Mike Blake: [00:00:40] My name is Mike Blake, and I’m your host for today’s program. I’m a Director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia. Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast, which is being recorded in Atlanta per social distancing protocols. If you like this podcast, please subscribe in your favorite podcast aggregator, and please consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Mike Blake: [00:01:05] Today’s topic is, Should I Franchise My Business? So, we’ve had conversations about franchising before. Mainly, the one that I’m thinking of is with Anita Best. It was very early on in the podcast series. I think she’s in the single digits. And she’s a person that is an expert in helping people find a franchise to buy into. So, if you want to become a franchisee, how do you figure out the right one? And if that interests you, please go back and listen to it. It’s a good, informative show.

Mike Blake: [00:01:41] But being a franchisee is only one-half of the equation. The other half is, should I become a franchisor? Which means that you’re going to make your business and your business model available to other people that would like to participate in it in a hybrid sort of operational and ownership way.

Mike Blake: [00:02:08] And franchising is actually kind of interesting. I did a little bit of background research. Uncharacteristically of me, I did some background research prior to this interview. And it turns out that franchising actually dates back to the medieval Catholic Church. It turns out that the initial territories, if you will, or dioceses, as we call them in Catholicism, were apportioned in Europe in a way that were set up effectively as franchises, including a certain portion of revenue generated by that church would be sent back to, for the most part, the Vatican. The seat of Catholic Catholicism was in Southern France for a brief period of time, but mostly to the Vatican. And of course, in exchange, the Vatican lent the brand name of Catholicism, and the rights, and rituals, and so forth, and all the other things that Catholicism brings to the table.

Mike Blake: [00:03:07] So, I had no idea that franchising goes back that far. And that’s a far cry now from starting a McDonald’s franchise, or a car wash franchise, or a dry cleaning franchise, but it just goes to show you that that business model has been around for a very, very, very long time. And anything that lasts that long probably has something going for it, despite all the change that’s occurred.

Mike Blake: [00:03:38] So, clearly, it’s a topic that’s worthy of discussion. And I have a feeling that there are some folks that are in businesses right now, either as an owner or as a key decision maker, that are thinking about the issue or the question, should I franchise my business? So, I have leant with you the sum total of my expertise on this topic, and that means we have more time to fill in the podcast.

Mike Blake: [00:04:01] And today, joining us to fill that time with expertise is Lauren Fernandez of the Fernandez Company. They are simple, effective and elegant, providing growth solutions for food and hospitality. At the Fernandez Company, they generate new revenue streams for companies, particularly in the food and hospitality industries. They diversify revenue streams outside the four walls of a restaurant by creating new channels of revenue – and we’re going to talk a lot about this – in the areas of organic expansion, franchising, product development, and licensing. They create this growth for their clients through their process of strategic consulting, management support, and investment.

Mike Blake: [00:04:38] Lauren is the founder of The Fernandez Company. The culmination of over a decade of practice as a trusted brand consultant and legal adviser with all kinds of clients from startups to multinational companies. Lauren started the Fernandez Company after starting funding with private equity and selling an eight location restaurant chain at a substantial return. She consults with companies on all aspects of restaurant and franchise development, brand licensing, product development, and market implementation. She focuses her practice on regulated industries, particularly in the food and drug space.

Mike Blake: [00:05:10] Before forming the Fernandez Company, Lauren served as the general counsel for Focus Brands, where she was instrumental in the rapid growth of the licensing program. Prior to joining Focus Brands, she was part of an elite team at Novartis CIBA Vision that successfully launched the company’s first new product in over a decade. She started her career in one of Atlanta’s most respected intellectual property boutiques, Gardner Groff. Lauren holds an undergraduate degree from Stetson University, as well as a juris doctorate and MBA from Emory University. She serves on the advisory board for the Atlanta Community Food Bank. She’s also a dedicated fundraiser for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society and was named the 2015 Woman of the Year for raising $95,000 in less than three months for cancer research. She’s a native of the Tampa Bay area but has lived in the Atlanta area for over 15 years. So, she’s almost accepted as a near native. But she’s native to our hearts and native to the podcast. Lauren Fernandez, welcome to the program.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:06:06] Thanks for having me. That was quite an intro there.

Mike Blake: [00:06:09] So, before we jump in, I want to ask you this, $95,000 for cancer research. First of all, thank you for doing that. My mother is a two time cancer survivor. What motivated you to do that?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:06:27] Well, it’s actually a very personal cause for me as well. In the early years of my law school education, my mom actually passed away from an extremely rare lymphoma. And for years I wanted to do something to help fund research. And as you know, there are hundreds of different types of blood disorders that are classified as leukemias or lymphomas. And the research, because there are so many differentiated different blood cancers, it is very difficult to tailor research to actual treatment plans. And one of the things I love about Leukemia and Lymphoma Society is they put those dollars that we raise almost dollar for dollar directly into tailoring research to effective solutions to target cures for these cancers.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:07:13] And I’m so pleased that we were able to fund not one, but two separate research studies that directly targeted T-cell lymphoma, which had affected my mother. And the survival rate for that cancer in the last 15 years has shot up from nearly four percent, which is abysmal to the double digits, which is fantastic. So, I was very blessed to be a part of that and to use my network and my friends and family to help us all fundraise, to fund those two research studies. It was very important.

Mike Blake: [00:07:46] Yeah. It’s remarkable. And I’ve noticed, I don’t know anybody who’s suffered with that particular cancer. But there’s been a lot of progress there. And that’s one area of cancer where there’s a lot of movement, too. So, again, thank you for contributing to that success.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:08:02] It’s my pleasure.

Mike Blake: [00:08:02] So, getting into your area of expertise, let’s help people understand that may not necessarily be expert. What does it mean to move into a franchise model? And how does a franchise model differ from other, maybe, more conventional business models?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:08:21] Right. So, franchising is actually a little bit of an American invention in terms of its legal structure and recognition and regulation. The United States is pretty much the leader in the law defining a franchise. We have the FTC in the United States who helps regulate the disclosures attached to franchising. But it might surprise most people to know that on a state by state basis, that’s where we look to for the governance regarding business relationships and specifically franchises. So, there’s about 15 to 16 states that have specific franchise rules and disclosures that are tailored to that type of business model.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:09:07] So, what is it exactly? Well, the true answer is it varies a little bit from state to state. But in reality, we can talk about it generally in the common denominators of what forms of franchise. So, a franchise is generally defined as three key elements. One, you have the brand. You have the trademark. And that trademark is licensed to an individual who, two, wants to use a proprietary system to run a business. And three, that person who has the system, i.e. the franchisor, is the person who’s controlling the quality and the execution of that system. So, there are some quality controls and guidance that are provided along with the ability to and the license to use the brand and the System.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:09:54] Now, when we say the System, we use that term kind of capital S, System. What does that really mean? Well, it could be anything, like if you’re in a restaurant, it could be methods, it could be floor plans and designs for the restaurant, it could be recipes, menus, interior decor, operational training, et cetera. Often you will also see franchisors manage things like marketing through a marketing fund. So, the idea here is that you are taking a workable, ostensibly profitable business model and licensing it for your use as an entrepreneur. So, it’s kind of like being an entrepreneur, but with guide rails, if you will.

Mike Blake: [00:10:37] And that’s interesting because I think that’s a very important point that I want to highlight, because I think when most people start to explore franchising, they think about the brand. Because the brand for us, as consumers, is a front facing part. But the part that strikes me that is actually the harder part to really nail down is that that system that you’re going to sell and then put people in a position to execute with their own dollars. So, I’m glad you mentioned that, because I think that’s a very important kind of learning point for our audience. So, if I have a business now and I start to think about franchising, I’ve heard about it from someplace. In your experience, what motivates people to start to consider franchising? Why are people asking you about it? Why are your clients asking you about franchising?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:11:30] This is a great question. And this is just my instincts and from many years of talking to people who are interested, I believe it’s because they are genuinely interested in growing their revenue and growing their business, whether it’s a restaurant or a service industry, et cetera. And that just is the most common way that they know of or have heard about, whether it be through television or movies or they’ve seen other success stories on Shark Tank, et cetera. And so, they think that that is the natural way to necessarily grow their business.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:12:10] However, I like to ask the why question. Why are you looking to grow? What’s really behind that? Do you need an exit strategy? Are you not making enough money? Do you need to fund two kids going to college? I think when you really spend time – and in our case with our clients, this is at least a two hour interview where we spend a lot of time getting to know them and their goals. And then, I think the question is, is franchising the appropriate fit for growth if that’s what we’re going for? I would say about 90 percent of the time you hear two things when we ask that why question. They want to grow their business and they want to make more money. But it doesn’t necessarily always follow that franchising is the right answer. Because with franchising, there’s a lot of other things that you have to consider, including supporting a franchise system, operational costs, loss of control to some extent, et cetera, that I think lots of people don’t necessarily think of when they consider franchising.

Mike Blake: [00:13:14] And I suspect – and you tell me if I’m wrong – at the end of the day, a lot of this boils down to the prospective franchisor is trying to figure out how to achieve scale and probably try to do it relatively rapidly, right? At the end of the day, to me, that’s what that sounds like. Am I off base or is that close to being right?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:13:33] I think sometimes that’s one of the reasons. But, ultimately, I think, again, that why question, yes, there is always ways to grow your business and to create scale in your own business without necessarily engaging in franchising as the appropriate model. And so, for us, even especially having been a franchisee myself and an owner-operator, I think really understanding their pains and their day to day operations, like what’s really going on? Why do you feel like you can’t scale it yourself? Why do you feel like you need other people to partner with you as franchisees in order to achieve scale? I think really driving down in those deeper questions gets us really to the problems they’re facing so we can solve them better. Because I will say this, while, franchising, I very deeply believe in it. I think it’s a wonderful way to kind of harness the American entrepreneurial spirit. It provides viable growth for a lot of different people, both the franchisor and the franchisee. It is not always the answer for growth. There are many different ways you can grow your business.

Mike Blake: [00:14:40] So, I want to dive into that here. I haven’t ripped off the script in a long time, but I’m going to rip it up a little bit today, because what you’re describing to me is that that process or the thought process, at least, when you consider franchising, it sounds like maybe a symptom of potential issues in the company that franchising is not going to solve the problem, in fact, it may make it worse. It sounds like that probing that you do helps identify whether or not the problem they’re solving is even franchise appropriate. And by definition, I guess, can be solved externally as opposed to something that really is an internal problem. Is that fair?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:15:22] No. I think you absolutely nailed it. And it’s not to say that there are people out there who are ready to franchise and who are good to go the minute they walk in the door. But in my practice, one of the things we do is our initial consulting in the first three to six months is, what I would call, tidying up. We go into the business, we really start to understand it, and we solve for what we know will be problems later. Because you cannot copy, paste, repeat and rapidly grow, whether it’s through your own organic growth or through franchising or any other channel, unless you really clean up the house and the foundation is strong.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:16:01] And so, in my experience, we see three things almost every single time when we go into a business that need correction or need tightening, if you will. One is, you’ve got to clean up the books. You have to have really daily available, accurate accounting. You’ve got to be able to show very key metrics. And I’ll use restaurants as an example, since that’s my wheelhouse. You’ve got to be able to, obviously, show the daily sales. You’ve got to be able to show your daily food costs, your daily labor costs. And you need to be running on what you think a target profit margin should be and show those numbers over time. Because if we don’t know those numbers, we can’t diagnose and show room for improvement. And we need to be able to show profit margin over time or else who’s going to want to buy your business as a franchisee if it’s not making significant amounts of money.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:16:55] The second thing is we tighten up operations. And sometimes that’s the people piece and making sure that the H.R. is all buttoned up and the risk is managed. That, from an operator’s point of view, if you can’t easily teach somebody else how to do it with a manual, with SOPs, with charts, and basic instructions, you’re not ready to franchise yet. And that’s usually not a huge hurdle. We just need to document, document, document. The third thing is you’ve got to define the brand. Sometimes there’s a little work to be done on making sure the brand messaging is clear, the design is clear. It’s really consistent and it’s differentiated so that when you move to market, that value proposition to a prospective franchisee is there. So, there is some work to be done, yes. When people come and do actually decide the franchise, we still spend a significant amount of time on, what I would call, that sort of tidying up period before we even really get to the growth plan and whether or not that involves franchising.

Mike Blake: [00:18:03] All right. So, let’s fast forward a little bit and say that somebody has made it through those three gates, if you will. And so, “Okay. I agree. Let’s go ahead and launch this franchising model.” At a high level, what do the steps look like to get from I’m not a franchise yet into now we’re a franchise?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:18:29] Right. So, there’s a significant amount of the cleanup, as we just discussed. But then, you really need to make sure we’ve got the legal foundation there. And I think there’s a misconception that this costs hundreds of thousands of dollars or that it costs, you know, even $50,000. It’s just not the case. So, you need to check some legal boxes. So, typically, that involves a federal trademark filing to make sure that the trademark is secure and available for use. And that you can protect those rights and the rights of others to use the system. Because, inherently, a franchise is a trademark license, first and foremost. So, buttoning up that kind of brand itself with the legal function of the trademark is very important.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:19:12] You know, there are franchise agreements that are required and also franchise disclosure documents, which, as I mentioned earlier, are regulated by the FTC and also 15 or so states. So, those legal documents provide the foundation of the relationship between the franchisor and the franchisee. And it starts from the minute that you engage them in a sales discussion. So, really, I think the foundation there is necessary.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:19:40] And then, as a secondary step, we like to educate our clients on what it means to be a franchisor. What it’s going to look like in a year, in two years, in five years as the company grows. And that includes, in the very early stages, making sure that they get their mission as a franchisor to become a good partner for franchisees. And they understand what transparency looks like and what it really means in a legal and practical context to be a franchisor and try to sell to a prospect. I think that those are really key initial first steps for anyone who’s building a franchise system.

Mike Blake: [00:20:22] And that disclosure document sounds to me like it looks fairly similar to a placement memorandum or an information memorandum for companies that are going to go out and raise capital. I don’t know if you’re familiar with those.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:20:36] Yes.

Mike Blake: [00:20:36] So, is that fair they’re fairly similar? They have some similarities.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:20:40] Yes. There’s a defined structure that’s outlined by the FTC that governs the shape and form of what’s called an FDD, a Franchise Disclosure Document. And, again, there are states out there that have additional disclosure requirements. So, you will often see one universal or nationwide FDD with several writers for each individual state. So, it is a checkmark, if you will. But it is essentially the four walls of your ability to sell the franchise. Because, ostensibly, you should not be discussing anything about the system or making any claims or forward looking statements about the franchise system other than what’s fully disclosed in that FDD.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:21:26] So, for sales people, including the original owners and the franchisor and their team, it’s very important that they understand the legal requirements behind that. And that, also, that they work with you and the legal team in producing an FDD that’s meaningful and substantial so they can talk about the brand and that there is decent substance in the disclosure. Because we like to operate in the light, I think that’s just the best way to roll. So, we try and make the FDD, not just to legal check the box, but more so a legitimate living sales document that helps the team not only sell into prospects, but helps prospects really genuinely understand the opportunity.

Mike Blake: [00:22:09] So, can you give an estimated timeline, and it can be from maybe the idea of having a franchise or maybe after they go through your cleanup process – maybe that’s better but I’ll let you decide – what does the time timeframe look like between, you know, deciding that you’re going to launch a franchise to actually having it out there and be available for potential franchisees to buy into?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:22:37] That’s a great question. So, our process involves that initial tidying up or cleanup period, which is somewhere between three and six months. A lot of that time is usually spent either in operations or buttoning up the accounting, cleaning up the finances, et cetera. And then, as a secondary stage, we go through what’s called a growth planning process. So, it’s a little bit more strategic. We sit down and we talk about goals, visions, planning, et cetera, and talk about the end game. And assuming that franchising is a part of that growth plan, then we go ahead and start the legal process of forming those documents. That’s about a two month process. The documents that need to be registered with various states in which you plan to sell the franchise. So, I would say all said and done that that whole process usually is somewhere between ten months to a year before it can be offered to the general consuming public.

Mike Blake: [00:23:33] And do you typically kind of have a suggested budget in mind? How much should a company plan to set aside to kind of go through that process?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:23:46] That is a wonderful question. So, a really good benchmark that we give to people is we assume that they’re making a certain number, a certain amount of profit margin. Because as I discussed earlier, in my opinion, if you’re not making a decent amount or profit out of your business, you probably have no business franchising it in the first place. But assuming they got –

Mike Blake: [00:24:06] Yeah. It’s like trying to solve a bad marriage with having a baby, right? I mean, it sounds like a really bad idea.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:24:14] Right. So, anywhere in the first year alone, we like to reserve about 20 to 25 percent of their annual profit margin in reserve for funding not only the legal documents that come of that, which is an initial upfront expense, but other expenses like state registration, sales, people, commissions, et cetera. So, there’s a decent amount of that, I would say, usually, north of $10,000 that’s legal in nature, whether that’s the sales disclosure documents, the FDD, the registration, the trademark registration, as we discussed earlier. Those costs are up front. But then, there’s some ongoing concern. There’s the people that it takes, the time that it takes to actually coach and manage and lead these franchisees to success. So, we also have to be thoughtful and considerate about who on the team and how much time it’s going to take to, for example, help a franchisee open a location, to train a franchisee at your headquarters, et cetera. So, there’s a decent amount of expense and I would say even more so than probably the legal expense and just the human capital and the time investment it takes to help franchisees.

Mike Blake: [00:25:27] So, I want to switch gears a little bit here. You know, you do everything you can to help. But then, a franchise, you know, at some point, it has to either execute or not or it has to thrive or not. And, of course, not all franchises, you know, succeed. I’m sure the ones you launch all do. But not every franchise succeeds. So, in your mind kind of post-launch, what are some of the differentiating factors that make a franchise launch successful versus not successful?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:26:06] This is a great question. So, I always say it’s not just about the horse that you pick, but it’s about putting it in the right race. So, there might be phenomenal prospective franchisees out there but they’re just not a good fit for your brand because, for example, your brand requires a very hands-on owner-operator. And the person that you’re talking to has a day job that they don’t want to leave and wants to treat the business more like it’s a check in the mailbox. And there’s nothing wrong with that. There are brands and systems for which that is the norm and it works. An example would be like a coin operated car wash. That’s a very different type of franchise system than, for example, owning a restaurant, which might be a lot more hands-on where you need to be the face of the restaurant. You need to be involved and engaged and be the mayor of your local community, et cetera.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:27:06] So, I would say when we see individual franchisee failures, largely, it is because it’s a mismatch between the system and the abilities or willingness of the franchisee to kind of buy into that, literally and figuratively. So, I do often think sometimes that you have to put the responsibility on both parties. So, while a franchisee may fail because it’s a mismatch or not a good alignment with the franchisee, there are instances of franchisors also not providing appropriate support in all of the areas where a franchisee would need it. It happens.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:27:48] I do think that there are some brands out there that franchise a little bit too early and it puts a lot of stress on a company to support rapidly growing franchise units who need that field business consultant. They need the marketing support. They need the customer service. They need the supply chain support. So, suddenly, the overhead for a franchise system to a franchisor can shoot up exponentially. I’ve seen numbers north of a million to $2 million a year in operating costs for 30 to 40, 50 units. And I think for a lot of franchisors, that kind of can take you by surprise if you do not have a properly laid out growth plan. So, unfortunately, it happens. I do not think that it’s the norm. I do think franchising as a system is a wonderful entrepreneurial spirit. Again, it gives people a chance to own their own business with the guide rails of someone else’s experience and expertise helping you along the way.

Mike Blake: [00:28:56] Good. So, this segues nice in a question I want to address with you, because it’s, in my experience, a very controversial topic. I think you have a lot to contribute to that. And that is, that I suspect that you’re aware that the the Small Business Administration website has a list of failure rates for SBA loans by franchise. And I didn’t look. I should have. But I think they kind of list their lowest 50 failure rates and their highest 50 failure rates. And, you know, some of the failure rates are quite striking. I remember the last time I looked at it, the highest failure rate was something in the 70 percent. And I think it was one of those ice cream places where they dump a bunch of ice cream on a cold table and mix some M&Ms or something inside a $10 ice cream cone. But my question is this, are you familiar with that list? And do you think there’s any validity to it at all in terms of the metric of the relative strength or business viability of one franchise system versus another?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:30:10] This is a phenomenal question. And it is controversial, right? I will just start with a general comment. So, in franchising. I think that there is a tendency to have what we will call fad franchises. So, there was a hot moment where, like, you could not open a pizza joint fast enough, then it was froyo, then it was mix-ins, like you just used the mix-in yoghurt example. Then, it was burgers. You remember there was, like, designer burgers on every corner. So, it’s driven by people. And so, when there are food demands or trends in the marketplace, you often see quick to act and sometimes well-positioned brands out there to benefit from those food trends in the marketplace. So, one of the current trends is poke bowl everywhere. Everywhere is a poke bowl, fresh tuna, rice, avocado, and a bowl. And it’s moved from the West Coast to the East Coast. Another trend right now, huge one, is ramen. There’s ramen everywhere.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:31:16] And so, occasionally, what you will see is there’s a glut in the marketplace where there are some initial first movers that are usually established brands who know what they’re doing. And they’re out there to kind of ride the first wave of that trend in the marketplace with consumer taste and diet. And then, you see the second movers, right? You see, like, these brands that just want to jump on that wagon very quickly and sell as many as possible as quickly as possible. So, when we’re looking at failure rates, I think sometimes what I quickly spot are those fads or those trends falling out of favor with the American public. You just see things not being as popular anymore as they once were or the fad is over. It’s just done. And so, there’s so much saturation in the marketplace with competing brands to serve that hunger in the marketplace, for lack of a better word, that eventually not everyone’s going to survive. And the brands that do survive are usually the ones that are more nimble, but also more mature and can respond to the changing diet in the marketplace or the changing tastes.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:32:23] The other thing that we see sometimes is, again, not a proper filtering or selection for prospective franchisees. So, that mismatch is happening and that’s why you have to have very specific guidelines for your sales team and a clear understanding of what a good franchisee looks like for your brand. And I think sometimes that means that the growth rate isn’t quite as exponential as what you might see in some of these other brands. But for the long term relationship, it’s the right thing to do. And I firmly believe in that. I think most people don’t catch this. But just like commercial real estate leases that are north of 10, 15, or 20 years, franchise agreements often run in similar length terms. So, you are signing up for a long term relationship with these prospective franchisees. And so, getting that match right is extremely important.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:33:24] You know, I think the third thing I will leave with is, part of that screening process is proper capitalization. Making sure that your franchisees have the amount of liquidity and proper balance of liquidity to leverage the debt to open these units. Because it’s not just about getting the doors open. You have to have available cash in reserve to maintain good inventory levels, to fix things that break, to hire the right managers, et cetera. So, there are estimates and FDDs that will give a prospective franchisee an idea of the low and the high. But I think screening to make sure that that available capital is really there and it’s a mix of capital and debt, if necessary, is really important. Because you’re going to cut off a lot of these issues before they even start when you do that.

Mike Blake: [00:34:21] You know, you said something in that answer that I just I think is so smart that I want to extract that because it has application, not just to this particular topic, but I think business decision making in general. And that is, that sometimes the best deal is the one you don’t make. And defining your business, not in terms of what you do, but what you won’t do or whom you’re going to exclude because they’re not a good fit or they’re not ready. As opposed to, you know, “Hey, can I come.” Sort of being the online ministry of franchisors or anybody who signs up is now ordained. So, I think that’s so smart and that the selectivity of the franchise – and any business, I think – means so much.

Mike Blake: [00:35:17] In my own business, one of most liberating and best decisions I made was I decided there’s certain kinds of assignments I don’t take on. I’m not good at them. I don’t enjoy them. They operate in a way that is immensely disruptive to my natural workflow. And there are people that do them way better than I do and will refer me work back, so I just refer them out. And I think encouraging anybody to decline customers that just aren’t a good fit. You know, listen to that inner voice saying, “Yeah. I’m not sure they’re the right one.” In my own experience, I’ve never turned down a client and then regretted that and wanted them back. And I’m not turning this into Mike Blake interview, but I wanted to raise point because I think that’s so important that it comes out of the franchise model because as general application. What do you think about that?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:36:14] You know, I have seen it across multiple brands. And some of the most successful growth stories that I’ve seen with brands that I’ve worked with come from exceptional leadership at the top. A vision to treat franchisees as partners and long term partners. And franchisors who are constantly asking the question, is what we’re doing today good for the franchisee? Is it good for the System – capital S? And, also, who invest in really high quality sales people who understand this about their brand.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:36:51] And I’ve worked with some phenomenal sales professionals at my time at Focus and since then. And I think that that sometimes makes all the difference because when they’re interviewing prospects, they know what to look for and they have a long term vested interest in not just selling a quick deal. They’ll sell the right deal to the right person. And those are the people that I keep going back to for continued sales growth. I trust them. I trust them to bring me the right qualified prospects. Because I don’t want to put the wrong people in front of my clients either.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:37:28] It’s the same with investors, even as a franchise or if you take investors, we do the same level of screening. Is it the right person to be a partner with us long term in the growth of this brand? I think that the same applies there too. You want to bring quality investors who understand the mission, who understand the trajectory of the growth plan, who are going to push a different agenda, and who are in the boat rowing in the same direction. And I can’t highlight that enough. I think when you’re in a system, franchising by definition, again, it’s a long term, mutually beneficial relationship. So, you got to know who you’re getting into bed with, right? You got to know and you got to choose wisely.

Mike Blake: [00:38:18] Yeah. A question I want to make sure that we get to is, you know, it strikes me with a franchise is that once you move from, presumably, a single location – or maybe not a single location – but a self-contained business model to franchise, you probably have to develop new skill sets. The things that made you successful as a self-contained business may need to expand or may need to change for the ones that are going to make you a successful franchisor. Do you agree with that? And if so, what do some of those new skills look like?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:38:59] So, wonderful segue. I think, here, one of the things I would highlight is the best franchise brands that I’ve seen, you see an owner-operator really become a leader of a community. So, they go from being the mayor of their one or two restaurants, for example, to being the leader of their entire brand. And there’s a level of camaraderie, inclusiveness, and transparency in that leadership that inspires everyone to do better.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:39:36] And I think that there is an element to this of – again, I’m using the restaurant terminology here of the owner-operator, where you’ve walked the walk and you talked the talk. So, you know what it is when the fryer goes down and what that means at lunch rush. And so, when the franchisee complains that the equipment keeps breaking, you don’t say, “Well, tough, it’s the equipment package.” You know that you’ve got to find a solution and your solution is based in your own practical experience. And I think those kinds of simple, and elegant, and down to earth solutions are really what define the best franchises because the leadership is in the trenches with the franchisees. So, I think if I could identify one type of skill set that is a must have, it’s that type of leadership. It’s the servant base with you all the way kind of leadership.

Mike Blake: [00:40:35] You know, that’s interesting. I’m not a franchise expert, as I’ve said, but I’ve observed that some franchises, in a way, have a multilevel market. I’m sure you’re going to cringe as soon as I bring that in, but let me finish. Is that some franchises do develop almost a cult of personality around the founder and a cult around the brand. And that they have huge – did, anyway, before the virus wrecked everything. But they had huge annual conferences, and trips, and contests, and internal recognition, and who’s the best franchisee in this region for whatever characteristic. And, you know, I hadn’t really thought about that but you’re right that, you know, there are a lot of franchises that really do place a high premium on strong leadership.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:41:36] Yeah. So, Mike, to that, I will say, I think that’s a little bit of a double edged sword, too. Because if you build the cult of personality around any leader, whether it’s the founder or the hired and gone CEO, what have you, you run the risk of that not being fully scalable. And, you know, you’re putting all your eggs in one basket. But the best leaders I’ve seen create this community with an entire executive team. They are experts that recruiting in talent and making sure everyone’s compass is pointed north and is going in the same direction.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:42:18] And so, there’s a level of redundancy to the messaging, the community, and the reinforcement of it is in the daily actions. And I cannot stress this enough. You want to make sure that the leadership for the brand is divested across an entire group of people who all have the integrity to do the right thing even when nobody is looking. And I think that it’s more than just one person. And it needs to be more than just one person.

Mike Blake: [00:42:53] Who, in your mind, does franchising really well? If you’re going to highlight somebody out there, they’re just a great franchisor, they really know what they’re doing, and their best practices a lot of franchisors can learn from. Is there a name or two you can throw out there that you think are just great kind of examples or exemplars of franchising?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:43:17] You know, I am extremely biased because I actually came out of a career in food and product development. And, as an attorney, I was working at Novartis and doing pharmaceutical development. And was recruited over to Focus Brands by Russ Umphenour, who, to me, is still one of the industry’s legends. And much of what I learned, I learned from him and from the team that he put around him, who brought me in with open arms into the industry, taught me about restaurants, taught me about franchising. And I think that my time at Focus there when I was working with Ross and the team was just one of the best examples of what a class act franchiser looks like.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:44:07] That said, there are plenty of others in the industry, you know, under David Novak’s leadership, Yum! Brands was a phenomenal example of this. And working hand in hand with them on a number of deals with some of their brands, I was just so impressed with the consistency within their organization, even though they were massively so much bigger than us as Focus Brands at the time. Just really impressed with the way that they handled themselves across multiple different departments. And I think that’s, again, the test of really good leadership is, everybody on the team doing the same things even when you’re not looking. It’s that integrity diversified across the entire talent pool, which is really hard to do as a leader to inspire people to really be at their best and have the right kinds of folks on your team, not only in recruitment, but in retention and the training of those folks.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:45:02] And I think the common denominator, if I can just say this, is all of these brands or franchisors, if you will, have a heavy investment in people, in talent, and in continued training. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. I mean, I must have been at a conference at least once a month as an executive. I spent months in brand training individually in all of our brands before I ever touched a contract when they hired me at Focus, which I thought was insane. But I understand it now as an operator. I totally get it. How can you assist any of these brands unless you really know what it is to operate one? And I have insane amounts of respect for the people who operate these businesses as franchisees and owners. So, I think, to me, that’s a major common denominator behind the best franchisors.

Mike Blake: [00:46:01] You know, thinking of Yum! Brands because I have a personal observation that before the Pizza Huts, Taco Bells, and KFC, I think, were consolidated under Yum! Brands, my perception is I don’t think those franchisors were particularly successful. I think they’re floundering. I think they had that operational consistency and branding problems. And, you know, you’re right. I think ever since they were consolidated – and you know the inside out, I don’t. But ever since they were consolidated and, I think, probably recapitalized with that consolidation, they have turned those all into very powerful competitive brands. And, you know, the same core food. You know, Pizza Hut food has not changed. KFC has not changed. Taco Bell a little bit. But they’ve elevated their game. I think they’re a good example of how great management and leadership makes an impact.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:47:02] Well, right. And if you’re making the system innovative, forward thinking, exciting, and profitable for your franchisees, you’re going to energize the heck out of them and they’re going to want to carry that flag up the hill. And I think the other thing that these brands tend to do really well is they’re nimble. And so, when they take the brand to other countries or into markets that are, maybe, a little bit different, they are not so rigid that they can’t figure out a way to make it happen. And I think that that’s also something they treat the brand with a level of respect. The brand is invested, not only by the people who are operating the brand on a daily basis by it, but by its customer base. So, they’re respectful and reverent with how they develop, evolve, and mature these brands. And I think that that’s really key.

Mike Blake: [00:48:01] We’re speaking with Lauren Fernandez of the Fernandez Company about the decision to franchise your business. We’re running up against the clock so we only have time for a couple more questions before we let you get out of here and help some more people. But one question I’d like to ask is, I think most people associate franchising with restaurants, first and foremost. Is there something about restaurants that makes them more franchiseable or more tempting to franchise than other lines of business?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:48:38] I don’t necessarily think so. I think that’s just what’s front of mind. There are so many service industries out there. There are a million brands, batteries plus, pet supplies plus. There’s a number of different brands out there that you may not even realize are franchised. I think because we, in this country, grew up with franchising, we sort of developed it or evolved it, if you will. And we have McDonald’s to sort of think as sort of our industry titan and leader in the channel of franchising to thank for that. So, I think it’s what’s front of mind, but I don’t think that it’s a universal truth that obviously all franchises are not restaurants.

Lauren Fernandez: [00:49:22] Restaurants, themselves, are actually fairly complicated. Whereas, there are other models that are fairly straightforward. You purchase the inventory, you open the doors, and it’s a lot simpler. There are service industry models, I believe Glass Doctor would be a good example of that, where you’re an owner-operator, but you’re servicing an actual need in the community. So, it’s a more service driven franchise. And those are very successful, too. They’re just a different model. Again, I think it’s just that restaurants are front of mind. Obviously, I have a huge bias towards them because that’s what I specialize in. So, it’s an interesting question, though. But no, I don’t know that I’ve seen any statistics on proportionately, like, what percent of franchises are restaurants. But it seems to me like it can’t be more than 50 percent of the total number of franchises in the US.

Mike Blake: [00:50:16] Lauren, we’ve learned a lot and we can learn a lot more, but we are running out of time and I want to be respectful of yours. If people want to contact you to learn more about this topic, can they do so? And what is the best way to do so?

Lauren Fernandez: [00:50:32] Yeah. Hit us up on our website, so we’re at the fernandezcompany.com. There’s a way to reach me with a form on there. Also, we have our contact information with our phone number and our email address. And we do provide consultations. And we are here to consult and help you figure out what the right growth strategy is for you and your brand. It may be franchising, but it may be some of the other tricks we have up our sleeve. And so, we’re here to help if you are interested in growing.

Mike Blake: [00:51:02] Well, thank you. And that’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. I’d like to thank Lauren Fernandez so much for joining us and sharing her expertise with us. We’ll be exploring a new topic each week, so please tune in so that when you’re faced with your next executive decision, you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy these podcasts, please consider leaving a review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us that we can help them. Once again, this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision podcast.

Tagged With: Brady Ware, Brady Ware & Company, franchise, Franchising, Franchisor, Lauren Fernandez, Michael Blake, Mike Blake, The Fernandez Company

GWBC Radio: T. Renee’ Smith with iSuccess Consulting

November 3, 2020 by angishields

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GWBC Radio: T. Renee' Smith with iSuccess Consulting
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T-Renee-Smith-iSuccess-Consulting1T. Renee’ Smith, CEO of iSuccess Consulting, Inc. is the secret weapon behind many small businesses and top corporations scaling and positioning themselves as an industry leader. Her super power is strategy.

T. Renee’ has helped raise more than $30 million in capital for small businesses and managed multi-million dollar budgets for diverse programming with Fortune 500 corporations.

iSuccess is an international business consulting firm helping clients in the corporate, government, and non-profit sectors in five key areas:

1. Strategic Planning
2. Supplier Development
3. Diversity and Inclusion
4. Board Governance
5. High-Performance Teams

Past and present clients include Delta Air Lines, British Telecom (Bahamas), Southern Company, and hundreds of emerging and established small businesses.

For over 25 years T. Renee’ has taught small businesses how to grow a sustainable business utilizing her CEO Life® Build Framework. She shares her step-by-step strategies in her best-selling book The CEO Life: A Holistic Blueprint to Scale Your Business and Life and through her online business development programs and workshops.

T. Renee has been featured in numerous local and national publications including Entrepreneur, Cosmopolitan, and The Atlanta Tribune.

Connect with T. Renee’ on LinkedIn and follow iSuccess on Facebook.

Transcript

Intro: [00:00:04] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s time for GWBC Radio’s Open for Business. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:15] Lee Kantor here. Another episode of GWBC Open for Business. And this is going to be a good one. Today, we have with us T. Renee Smith with iSuccess Consulting. Welcome.

Renee Smith: [00:00:29] Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:32] I’m so excited to get caught up with what you’ve got going on. Tell us about iSuccess Consulting. How are you serving folks?

Renee Smith: [00:00:39] Well, iSuccess Consulting, it is a strategic planning boutique management consulting firm. We work with clients on diversity, equity inclusion, supplier development, and leadership development and training. And so, we are worldwide working with corporations, government, and small businesses.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:57] So, now, how did you get into this line of work? Were you always kind of passionate about this side of business?

Renee Smith: [00:01:02] So, it’s funny because I remember I started my first company when I was 19 and I was interning with Coca-Cola Enterprise and AT&T. And I had great internships with them for about three or four years. And I found myself inside these companies at such a young age looking at their strategy, what they needed to do, how they should change it, what pivots they need to make in order for the businesses or the units to be more successful. So, I think I just came here really liking strategy and leadership development. So, I really kind of fell into it. I don’t think I woke up and I said this is what I want to do. I just was placed in a situation. I saw a need. And I had innate skill sets that I developed. And I just love working with clients and helping them achieve their goals.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:48] Now, when you’re working with the clients – and I would imagine this is clients of all kinds of shapes and sizes – is strategy something that they spend, maybe, too little time on? It just kind of happens. And instead of, like, being methodical and mindful and kind of having a purpose around that, it just kind of occurs.

Renee Smith: [00:02:07] It is. So, for most clients, there is not proactive. It’s very reactive. So, when something happens and things are falling apart, they’re not making the kind of revenue that they want to make, then that’s when they look down and say, “Hey, what is it that I need to do?” So, that’s most clients. You do have some that sit down and they will plan their strategy for one year or three years in advance. But most of the time with the clients, whether it’s a government, corporation, smaller and mid-sized business, it happens when everything is falling apart or they’re not receiving the results that they want.

Lee Kantor: [00:02:40] And do you find that you’re spending some time with these clients in just kind of getting to the heart of why they exist? Like, what’s their big why? What is, you know, their true north? What is the the outcome that they wish to influence and help people attain? Is that part of your work?

Renee Smith: [00:02:58] Absolutely. It is. And that’s all within the strategy. Really looking at what’s your vision for your company, what’s your mission, what’s your purpose, what is your promise that you have to your clients. So, I think a lot of times, companies are focusing on revenue or money. They’re focusing on how can they grow their revenue. Or they’re focusing on how they can streamline their operations to save money. And so, what we have to say is your revenue, all of that really is tied back to what’s your vision, what’s your purpose, what’s your mission, what is it that you’re doing.

Renee Smith: [00:03:27] And so, as companies get larger, they kind of a lot of times lose that north star of why am I doing this? What is the purpose behind it? And they’re focusing more on the executable actions or the technical items. So, one of the very first things that we do is, we sit down and we, of course, do a SWOT analysis to figure out what’s working well and what’s not. But then, we say, why are you in business? Why are you doing this? What is the heart and the soul of this business? And what is it that you give to your clients? How you serve them and offer them value, whether it’s a product or service?

Lee Kantor: [00:04:02] And I think that that information is critical, especially in times of kind of chaos like we’re in now, where there’s a lot of uncertainty and there’s a lot of disruption. If you’re not clear about those things, you could be kind of devastated. It’s like if you’re one line of business is now disrupted and you don’t have a true north of why you even exist, it could be kind of an end game for you, like it could be over. But if you really are kind of clear, then you have kind of other ways to serve people and then you can survive.

Renee Smith: [00:04:37] And I think that’s a great point. And I think in addition to people understanding or businesses understanding their purpose and their north star, they have to understand what are they good at. A lot of businesses, they get caught up in the shiny object syndrome or the me too syndrome and really looking at other businesses or looking at what is successful. And then, they try to implement that in their business. And that may not be what they’re good at. That may not be part of their purpose or part of what they’re supposed to be doing. And so, that’s what we always have to say, you don’t just chase the money. You really have to chase the purpose. You have to chase what you’re good at.

Renee Smith: [00:05:14] And so, I think in these times, you’ve had so many businesses that have had to pivot because their purpose or their service or product that they provide because of, you know, everything that’s going on now with the pandemic, that is just not a need for that. And so, they’re having to go back and really take a hard look and say, what are my skill sets, what are my expertise, what are my experience, my core capabilities. And align that with what the market needs right now and what the market is willing to pay for and pivot their business to ensure that they’re able to stay alive and to stay afloat. So, it is about your purpose as well as understanding your skills, your expertise, your capabilities.

Lee Kantor: [00:05:53] And I would think that when you start working with a client, then you kind of bring in these fresh eyes and, maybe, can educate them and see things that, maybe, it’s obvious to you. But they can’t really see because they’re so far in the weeds and maybe they’ve gone on this kind of rabbit hole tangent that wasn’t really part of their north star that you’re able to say, “Hey, remember. This is why you started this. This is what you used to do. Why don’t we get back to kind of some of the fundamentals?”

Renee Smith: [00:06:23] And you’re absolutely right. And one of the biggest things for us is, when you bring in an outside consultant to work with you, they’re able to see your blind spots. You’re so in it, you’re so inundated in it, you’re so emotionally attached to your business, and you know the amount of hours that you and your team are putting in your business. It’s difficult sometimes just to be able to step away emotionally and detach and really look at it and say what is the best for the bottom line or what’s the best for the direction of our business.

Renee Smith: [00:06:53] So, when we come in, we have a proprietary process that we take all of our clients through that helps us to be able to identify what are their blind spots, what are the areas of opportunities, what are their threats, what are their weaknesses. And be able to present it to them or help them through this discovery process so that, for themselves, they can look at their business objectively, look at the industry objectively, and not make emotional decisions. We have to look at data or we have to look at past history, and then we have to look at the direction that the industry is going in to make sure that we’re making sound decisions for businesses to be able to be sustainable. And when you’re in the business, sometimes it can be very difficult for you to do that because it’s your heart, and it’s your soul, and it’s your baby.

Lee Kantor: [00:07:37] Now, when you’re working with clients and you kind of agree on, “Okay. This is the true north or north star. And this is how we’re going to go about this.” How do you kind of – I don’t know what the right word is – but kind of encourage them to take risks and to try things that, maybe, they hadn’t done because there is a chance of failing? But if you’re not really pushing, you’re never going to really get to the next level. So, it’s a balance of you got to, you know, do the stuff you’ve always done, but you also kind of have to go out there and take some risks in order to really see what you can become.

Renee Smith: [00:08:13] That is such a great point. I think one of the biggest things that we do for our clients is we help them to understand what is your goal, what is your endgame, your end result, what is it that you want to achieve. So, once we’re clear on what the angle and the end objective is, now we’re able to backtrack and figure out what is the best way to reach that goal. And we do it by looking at the risk, but in mitigating the risk.

Renee Smith: [00:08:37] So, I think a lot of people, when they think about business ownership, they think that these small business owners, they just are adverse to risk. They just take all kinds of risks. They just leap. No. Most small business owners, they take calculated risk. And so, they look and say what is the risk involved? How will this risk affect my business if it works out well, if it does not work out well? So, we have to go through all the different case scenarios and then we can make decisions to figure out how do we mitigate that risk before we actually take a step forward. Because if it’s a risk that is going to collapse your business, if it doesn’t work out, because there’s always an opportunity that when you’re doing something new that is not going to work out. So, you have to take calculated risk and you have to go through the process of figuring out what’s the worst case scenario, what’s the best case scenario, and make sure that you prepare for either case.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:30] Now, in your career, has there been a risk you took that maybe didn’t work out that you’re willing to share?

Renee Smith: [00:09:35] Oh, my gosh. A lot of them leave when I tell you. I think one of the biggest risks that I took, and it was probably about 15 years ago, it ended my company in bankruptcy. I had to file business bankruptcy. I lost everything. It was crazy because the same day the shares were coming to evict me out of my office space was the same day that my company was featured in Entrepreneur Magazine as one of the top rising companies. But I had taken a risk and gotten into a business partnership with someone that offered complimentary services to the business that I did. And I did not do my proper vetting. I did not do my risk calculation. I didn’t go through the best case, worst case scenario. And as a result of not doing that, I ended up being in a business relationship with someone where we didn’t have the same north star. We didn’t have the same values. And as a result of it, my company closed and I had to start all over again.

Renee Smith: [00:10:38] But I think that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned is that, yes, you can take risks, but it has to be calculated risk. And you have to do your due diligence to determine if this is a risk worth taking or not. And that particular instance, it wasn’t. But I looked at it not as a failure. I just look at it as that was an opportunity for me to learn on really how to do proper risk mitigation. The same thing that I do with my clients today.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:04] Right. And that’s the lesson. I don’t like to look at things as failures or successes. But there are lessons that we can move forward and help other people so they don’t have to make that mistake. And I’m a big believer in, with the right partner, you can do anything. But you have to kind of do your due diligence. You know, it’s a trust but verify kind of thinking I think works best.

Renee Smith: [00:11:30] Absolutely. I think it’s a combination when you’re a business owner of your intuition, your gut, as well as doing your research and proper vetting and due diligence. I think it’s a combination of both.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:41] Now, recently, you wrote a book, The CEO Life. Tell us about what kind of compelled you to do that. Was this a way for you to answer a lot of questions you kept getting over and over again?

[00:11:56] You know what? I wrote it for two reasons. Number one, absolutely. Yes. Because the businesses that I was working with and even the corporate or government clients that I had in dealing with their suppliers, it was always the same questions. And so, I would find myself answering the same question over and over and over again. And so, I wanted to create a manual or playbook, as I call it, of how you can be successful in building and growing your business. That’s number one.

Renee Smith: [00:12:23] And then, number two, I think that I was at a period in my life where I was working to figure out how can you have success in both your personal life as well as in your business? So, I’m married with kids. And I think, what so many entrepreneurs or small business owners deal with that they don’t talk about it, and even anybody, is, how can I have success in both and still be sane and not be stressed out? And so, I went on a journey of looking for business books out there that taught me both of them. They taught me the business savvy and how to have success in my personal life. And I didn’t find it. And so, of course, as any entrepreneur would do, I wrote the book. I wrote it myself.

Lee Kantor: [00:13:05] And is there anything you can share from the book? Is there anything you learned, like maybe a common denominator or maybe a myth about CEOs that you want to share?

Renee Smith: [00:13:15] So, I learned a lot. And I think one of the biggest things that I learned is really what is required in order to be successful. So, I think that I often talk about that you have to have the right mindset, you have to have strategy, you have to have accountability. But when I was researching and looking at different CEOs that was successful in all kinds of industry, whether it was in corporate, small business, et cetera, they really had several things in common. Number one was consistency. I think number two was discipline. And number three was perseverance. And that’s in any area.

Renee Smith: [00:13:51] So, whether you’re looking at mastering marketing in business, whether it’s strategy, whether it’s supply chain, regardless of what it is, you have to have those three areas because business is not going to always work out the way that you want it to work. And I think if most people understood in the beginning what was required to run a successful business, most people would not even start one. They just wouldn’t do it. And so, I think that people have to understand that it just takes discipline, consistency, and perseverance, regardless of what you’re doing, regardless of what industry you’re in, you’re going to get knocked down, and you have to get right back up.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:26] Now, part of your journey, I would imagine, that you’ve had people that have helped you, whether it may be mentors or maybe it was just folks that were encouraging and, maybe, opened some doors for you. Can you talk about the importance of kind of aligning yourself with the right folks?

Renee Smith: [00:14:44] I think that that is everything in life, whether it’s in business or in your career. You are a sum total. And I’ve heard this quote and I just love it, “You’re the sum total of the five people that are around you.” So, if you don’t like where you are in your life, you have to really look at the five people that you’re in most contact with that you talk to or that you’re around, because that is who you are. That’s who you’re going to become. So, one of the biggest things that has accelerated the success in my business has been being around the right mentors because they’re able to lessen your learning curve. Because they’re several steps ahead of you, they’re able to help you avoid pitfalls, they’re able to see the blind spots that you’re not able to see, and they’re able to help to guide you.

Renee Smith: [00:15:31] And so, I remember as early as when I started my first company, I always had mentors. And initially when I didn’t have the access to mentors, so I didn’t have the money to become a part of a mentorship program. Books, videos, they mentored me. And then, as I got older and got more seasoned in business and I was in different circles, then I was able to have one-on-one contact with the mentors. So, I say to anybody, regardless of where you are in your business, you have to find a right mentor. And I think sometimes people have a misconception about what a mentor is. I think a lot of people think that it’s just going to be a person that’s going to pour into your life. But a mentoring relationship, it is a mutually beneficial relationship where you’re helping to pour into their life. You’re helping them as far as in supporting and achieving their goals. And they’re doing exactly the same thing for you. So, mentorship, the right kind of mentorship, really is a two way street. And it’s not just a one way where you’re doing all of the taking and they’re doing all of the giving.

Lee Kantor: [00:16:34] Right. And that’s something that young people, especially, should take into consideration. It can’t always be just about them. There has to be some give back in there. And the give back doesn’t have to be anything monumental. But just being there and listening and doing your best to open doors or whatever you can do and add some insight. It doesn’t have to be like, “Oh, I have to do it in the same dollar amount or value wise.” It doesn’t have to be that. It’s just really in your heart. If you have that heart of helping and wanting to give, that goes a long way.

Renee Smith: [00:17:08] And it can be something simple. “Are you doing an event that I can come and that I can volunteer and give my time?” “I was reading this article and I thought about you, so I wanted to send it to you.” So, it could be something that is very, very simple. It’s just letting them know that you’re appreciative of them taking their time to mentor you and anything that they need from you that you are available to help.

Lee Kantor: [00:17:31] Right. Now, let’s talk a little bit about GWBC. How has that organization helped you in your career?

Renee Smith: [00:17:38] Well, GWBC is an amazing organization. I’m a woman entrepreneur, of course, woman business owner. And so, to be surrounded by other like-minded women, I think that in itself. Because you’re in a company and you’re around people that want to be successful in business, that they’re going to put the hard work in, in order to be successful. And, also, the resources that they have as far as the training, the introduction to corporate buyers, for you to be able to talk about your products and services, I think that it is invaluable. And so, I would encourage any woman business owner out there to become a part of GWBC. Oftentimes, we don’t find the support that we’re looking for in our family, or maybe not necessarily, even our friends, about somebody that can understand the journey. Because I think that being a business owner, I always say it is a spiritual journey because of the amount of time and effort and commitment that is required. And so, just to be in a space around other CEOs and other business owners, I think it is invaluable because sometimes our family and friends, not that they don’t support us, they just don’t understand the journey and what is required to run a business.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:51] Right. You had mentioned it earlier, these blind spots. If you have folks out there that are along in the same journey, maybe not on the same exact road you’re on, but it might be a road that has similar pitfalls. They can really open your eyes to things that you don’t know. I mean, you don’t know what you don’t know most of the time. So, if you have somebody that’s a little ahead of you in this journey and they can go, “Hey, watch out for this over here. This can bite you.” That’s helpful. And it’s great to have an organization where that’s what you’re surrounded by. It’s very collaborative.

Renee Smith: [00:19:24] And I think that it’s so important, too, because it is a diverse group of businesses, a diverse group of industries. So, a lot of times we will attract people that are in similar industries to us. They may think similar to us. So, I think when you’re part of GWBC, it just opens your mind up and it opens up your exposure to so many different type of businesses, so many different types of industries to expand you, to stretch you, to help you to grow as a business owner, and to help you grow as an individual.

Lee Kantor: [00:19:55] Now, I know you work with companies of all sizes in lots of different industries, but if you were to give advice to, maybe, a young person that’s starting their own thing, what kind of advice along the lines of strategy is kind of the low hanging fruit that if they get this right, they’re going to have a better chance of success?

Renee Smith: [00:20:16] I’ll get to the strategy in a minute, but I think the one thing that I would say to a young person in reference to business is, be clear and understand why you want to be a business owner. If it’s that you want it because of money or you want it because you just want to set your own hours, then those are not the right reasons for you to go into entrepreneurship. So, I would, number one, say, you’ve got to be very clear on what your reasoning is for going into business. Because for most business owners, the amount of time that it takes for you to build a successful business is way more than the initial payoff. So, I know a lot of people, they start businesses on Monday and by Friday they want to be, you know, making six figures or a seven figure business. And so, it doesn’t work like that.

Renee Smith: [00:21:07] So, number one, do you have the discipline, the consistency, and the perseverance to go through what is required in order to build a successful business? And if you have that, then one of the first things that you need to do is you need to develop your strategy. You need to be crystal clear on what your mission is, what your vision is, what you value, and what you expect from the business, what’s the outcome that you want for the business so that you’ll know how you want to build. Is it something that you’re building to create as a legacy for your family? Do you want to sell it? Or do you want to just have a business that pays you enough where you’re able to work for yourself? Because depending upon which path you take, it’s going to be different things required to build a sustainable business.

Lee Kantor: [00:21:53] Now, when it comes to your clients, what is the pain that they’re having right before they hire you and your team?

Renee Smith: [00:22:01] So, it really, really depends. And I’ll tell you the top three. Number one is dealing with a team, is dealing with a dysfunctional team. So, you have a leader that’s trying to achieve certain goals or trying to have a collaborative spirit within their team. And for whatever reason, they are not able to have that. And so, one of the biggest things is a team that’s in crisis, as I like to call it. That’s number one. Number two is, when we deal with diversity, equity and inclusion, and accessibility work, that is where they’re in crisis because some event has happened that has brought awareness and attention that their organization is not as diverse and equitable as they thought that it was. And, oftentimes, this is something that is negative, that has been leaked to the press, employees have complained about, or there has been some negative ramification. So, that’s number two.

Renee Smith: [00:23:00] And then, number three would be where companies that they have not achieved their goals, whether it’s their annual goals, quarterly goals, et cetera. And so, a VP or someone is looking at them and they’re saying, “Why have you not achieve these goals? Why have you not reached these benchmarks?” And so, they’ll bring us in to do a full strategic plan and assessment to identify those blind spots as to why they have not achieve those goals and put in a plan of action to ensure that they meet those goals.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:34] Well, if somebody wanted to learn more, have a conversation with you or somebody on your team, or even get a hold of your book, what is the best way to find you?

Renee Smith: [00:23:43] Okay. So, first, you can find me at my website, which is isuccessconsulting.com. That’s isuccessconsulting.com. Or you can reach me on any of the social media platforms at iSuccess Consult. That’s I-S-U-C-C-E-S-S Consult. And The CEO Life is available where all books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere books are sold, you can find The CEO Life.

Lee Kantor: [00:24:10] Good stuff. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Renee Smith: [00:24:16] Thank you so much for having me on. And this is amazing. Thank you for doing this for GWBC.

Lee Kantor: [00:24:21] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on GWBC Open for Business.

About GWBC

The Greater Women’s Business Council (GWBC®) is at the forefront of redefining women business enterprises (WBEs). An increasing focus on supplier diversity means major corporations are viewing our WBEs as innovative, flexible and competitive solutions. The number of women-owned businesses is rising to reflect an increasingly diverse consumer base of women making a majority of buying decision for herself, her family and her business. GWBC-Logo

GWBC® has partnered with dozens of major companies who are committed to providing a sustainable foundation through our guiding principles to bring education, training and the standardization of national certification to women businesses in Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina.

Tagged With: iSuccess Consulting

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