In this episode of Women in Motion, Lee Kantor is joined by Dr. Pamela Williamson and guests Robin Billups, Michelle Muncy, and Erika Guerrero. They share insights on the dynamics of their partnerships, the importance of trust and boundaries, finding a partner who shares the same vision, and the impact of COVID-19 on work dynamics. They also emphasize the need for documentation, hiring the right people, and involving everyone in marketing and business development.
Robin Morgan Billups is an entrepreneur who established her career in banking focused on commercial real estate (CRE) construction financing.
Prior employment includes U.S. Bank as a CRE Construction and Community Lending Relationship Manager. Robin created the U.S. Bank National Supplier Diversity Program across a 24-state footprint.
During her tenure, the bank received outstanding ratings from regulators and national recognition for its lending, educational procurement, and supplier diversity programs.
After U.S. Bank, Robin leveraged her expertise to establish The Billups Group (TBG). TBG couples supply chain diversity and inclusion with corporate social responsibility efforts to establish and achieve a strategic plan(s) via assessment and coaching.
TBG clients entail entities and entrepreneurs seeking to address market demand for capacity and scalability. TBG consultancy seeks to support the clients’ economic goals and compliance reporting.
Robin is an alumna of the USC Marshall School of Business’s Minority Program in Real Estate and a certified Supplier Diversity Professional/UCF.
Michelle Muncy is the majority owner of Able 2 Adjust, Inc. She has her Masters in Science with an emphasis in Mental Health and Wellness and has been managing the day-to-day operations with her partner since 2011.
Together they have built and expanded their business nationwide and have offered over 300,000 online, on-demand classes to families in transition. They are currently hoping to expand their reach to better serve the community.
They are currently working on classes for the workforce, the Department of Children and Family Services and other court agencies.
Erika Guerrero has over a decade of technology experience. She began her career on the Dragon 1 program at SpaceX, was New Product Introduction Program Manager at a battery manufacturing startup and was promoted to manage the joint venture with BorgWarner. In 2019, she founded Electric Goddess, a premier boutique research and development lab, that has grown to a multi-million dollar bootstrapped enterprise.
At the end of 2021, she took on the role of CEO at Redivivus and defined the company scope, financial path, and technology strategy to solve battery recycling industry challenges from a first-principles perspective.
Erika enjoys being active, spending time with her family and her chameleon Hiroshi, enjoying living the beach life, and traveling for work and play.
About our Co-Host
Dr. Pamela Williamson, President & CEO of WBEC-West, is an exemplary, dedicated individual, and has extensive experience as a senior leader for over twenty years.
She has served as the CEO of SABA 7 a consulting firm, overseen quality control at a Psychiatric urgent care facility of a National Behavioral Health Care Organization where she served as Vice President and Deputy Director,and has served as the CEO of WBEC-West, since 2008.
Her extensive experience in developing and implementing innovative alliances with key stakeholders has enabled the organizations to reach new levels of growth and stability. Her ability to lead and empower staff members creates a strong team environment which filters throughout the entire organization.
She takes an active role in facilitating connections between corporations and women business enterprises and sees a promising future for WBENC Certified women-owned businesses.
Dr. Williamson holds a Doctorate in Healthcare Administration, a Master’s degrees in Business Administration, and bachelor degrees in both Psychology and Sociology.
Connect with Dr. Williamson on LinkedIn.
Music Provided by M PATH MUSIC
This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix
TRANSCRIPT
Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios. It’s time for Women in Motion. Brought to you by WBEC West. Join forces, Succeed Together. Now here’s your host.
Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here with Dr. Pamela Williamson. Another episode of Women in Motion brought to you by WBEC West. Dr. Pamela Williamson. It’s been a minute since we chatted. I’m so excited about this topic, the topic of women leading the way with male partners. How are you doing?
Dr. Pamela Williamson: I am doing well. I am excited by this topic too. We get lots of questions around certification and whether you can get certified if you are partnered with a male and what that looks like. So I’m excited to hear these two ladies stories and super excited today to have Robin Billups from the Billups Group as our expert panelists today. So Lee, I’m going to pass it back to you.
Lee Kantor: All right. Well, let’s start with Robin Billups with the Billups Group. Robin, can you share a little bit about the Billulps Group? How you serving folks?
Robin Billups: How am I serving folks? I coach, I do an assessment. I coach and push them towards a strategic plan in order to meet the compliance regarding procurement and also to to grow their businesses. You know, most corporations now are looking for capacity and scalability, and I’ve decided to focus on existing businesses that really just need that extra push to make decisions immediately and to be more strategic on how they’re planning their their day.
Lee Kantor: Very cool. Next up, we got Michelle Muncy with Able 2 Adjust. Welcome, Michelle.
Michelle Muncy: Hi. Thank you so much. A little bit of background about our company. We started off doing family education on demand classes and we are trying to transition now over to leadership training classes across the country and trying to get into government procurement. So it’s always fun.
Lee Kantor: And last but not least, Erika Guerrero with Electric Goddess. Tell us a little bit about what you’re up to.
Erika Guerrero: Thankfully, Electric Goddess started in the spare bedroom of my luxury high rise apartment where building with my partner and we had one power supply and meter. And then before I knew it, we filled up that entire room with electronics. And so now we have two labs that is a boutique research and development firm. And why I say it’s boutique is because we don’t go for quantity. We really go for quality. We solve really large issues for startups, investors and large corporations and energy storage, batteries, space propulsion industry. And it’s been a fun ride.
Lee Kantor: Fascinating. Let’s dive right into this again. The topic is Women in Business leading the way with male partners. So I’ll kick it off with you. Robin, What inspired you to partner with your partner in the first place? How did it all get started?
Robin Billups: Well, I spent over almost 30 years in the banking industry. My background is construction, real estate, commercial real estate, construction financing. And having spent a lot of time in that sector with males, I learned everything that I learned about the lending business came from a male perspective, and I saw that they were they were earning quite a bit of money and they weren’t doing half the work that I was doing on the residential side. So I moved into commercial real estate, and when I turned 50, I decided I needed some other skills and I moved into the supplier diversity space. I created the supply chain inclusion process for US Bank. I’ve actually been on the board president for We Bank West. I actually was the business development director for a national director for We Bank National. And with all of these multiple skills, my husband and I decided that, you know what, when you decide to not be in corporate, you have a book of business and the and the connections to actually support and work with coach other individuals who are in this in this space trying to do business with corporations. And my husband is a major he ended up teaching fifth grade. He retired and we call it the Billups group because my sons and my two sons are actually engaged with with us as well.
Lee Kantor: Michelle, can you talk about your origin story?
Michelle Muncy: Yeah.
Michelle Muncy: Um, well, I was. I was working in the corporate world as well, um, doing marketing, and I was always kind of an entrepreneur on the side. So in the evenings and I actually ran across my partners actually over in Europe, and we just formed a relationship. And when we decided to kind of delve into this space, this kind of untapped market back in 2011, he was just an infant. He was really young but super, super intelligent. And I knew I was going to be partnering with somebody that gave me my space and I respected his space. And it was and it’s turned out to be a huge blessing and a great fit. So we’ve been we’ve been partners for quite a long time. And, you know, we’ve we’ve made it work. You know, it’s it’s been it’s been a journey for sure, Erica.
Erika Guerrero: I have always been surrounded by men. I’ve being in technology. I guess I did get a sociology degree, but my minor was in astrophysics because I really liked looking up into space. So when I was at Space X, definitely surrounded by male engineers, and then I became a new product introduction program manager for a battery factory. So they gave me like an empty building and said, Go build batteries. And from there I was running a joint venture with one of the largest automotive parts suppliers in the world, and I had a similar experience to Robin where I did a really great job. I saw a lot of people excelling in ways that I wasn’t given the same opportunities, and so I branched out on my own with my partner, Luke, who ended up becoming my husband last year. But when we first met, he was kind of this feral ish scientist that was helping me choose some glue. And eventually I just really got to see like, Hey, this is a really good person. This is somebody who’s been in the Electric Revolution since like 2006 when it was like weirdo to have an e-bike. And so he’s really helped bring more clients to our business and I’ve been able to empower him by he doesn’t want anything to do with the business. And I’ve been able to learn so much about technology and it’s been a wonderful blessing.
Lee Kantor: Can can any of you speak to maybe some of the trade offs like like in terms of how you’re you deal with conflict or you deal with challenges or obstacles and maybe your partner deals with them through a different lens. Can you share any stories in and around that?
Robin Billups: My my personal experience. I was a management trainee many, many years ago. My first manager when I became a loan officer said to me, I’ve always had male managers up until I got into late in my career and they’ve always he always said to me and it always stuck with me. Deliver a note early and often. Because sometimes we will waffle on what we know is the right thing to do and we need to deliver that. No. And what he what he shared with me is that, you know, the folks are looking for. Yes. But if the answer is a no, you have to deliver that early and often, because the longer you protract that, the deeper the problem becomes and the more expensive it becomes. And they’re looking for the deep pockets. So, you know, my husband was a major you know, he’s a numbers guy. Numbers wasn’t my thing. My degree is in journalism. He went on that that side. So we kind of have this yin and yang thing going on. We’ve been together 52 years. We’ve been married 46 years, but we’ve been together 52 years. So we kind of grew up together and we kind of know each other’s strengths and weaknesses from that perspective.
Michelle Muncy: And I’ll jump in. Um, I, I would think and I hate to stereotype, but I’m a lot more emotional and I drive by emotion and I really admire in my, my partner in his ability to just kind of see things very black and white and very clear. And he is also brings in the technology piece of it. And I do the the business side and the marketing side. And it’s, you know, I’m finding a balance to really try to respect knowing that he’s usually the voice of reason for me. And I’m although he has ideas, I’m the idea person and I’m always wanting to like make friends. And he’s coming at it more from like, but this is the reality and these are the facts. So there is a really good, as you were mentioning, Robin, the yin and yang part of it. And I think that’s what’s made us successful is finding that balance and really showing him the respect. And when he can see that I’m respecting him and his decisions, he gives a lot more freedom to me to be open with my ideas so I can voice my ideas. And that’s what makes it great. And a successful partnership is that we both respect each other and knowing, you know, I’m really we’re struggling with an issue right now where he’s saying no. And I’m certain it’s a yes. And I’m really trying to understand his no. And I want to have his no be okay, but I’m still grappling with it emotionally.
Lee Kantor: So how do how do you break ties?
Michelle Muncy: With the yes and the no.
Lee Kantor: Yeah, like so if you have, you know, differing opinions, is there a default like, okay, if we don’t agree then it’s a no or if we don’t agree it’s a yes. Like how do you break ties?
Michelle Muncy: He’ll let me try it and fail. And he’s really good about he’s really good about giving me grace and knowing, okay, it’s going to cost this much if she fails and we can afford to do that. But he appreciates the fact that I’m going to try. And so that’s again, why it’s such a good relationship is he gives me the space to fail and we might have some success or we we’ve had successes and so we have enough room to grow and and and try and knowing that there’s going to be some failures in there, which I think is also important is to know not everything’s going to work, but we need to keep trying. And he gives me the space to do that.
Lee Kantor: Right. And and you feel safe in that environment where it’s okay to take risks. Like it’s not, you know, the it’s not something that’s going to end anything. It’s just we’re trying different things. And life is an experiment. So this is just another one.
Michelle Muncy: Absolutely. So how much can we risk now?
Lee Kantor: Erica, what about you?
Erika Guerrero: I would say when you’re at the tip of the spear and no one’s really done anything of what you’re doing, there’s really no rule book. So I would say I’m very orderly. I did a program management job. I’m like, here’s the schedule, here’s where all the parts are, Here’s everyone moving. And Luke is the total opposite. Like if I just let him alone in the lab, he would just it would explode with parts everywhere. Maybe literally and physically and actually. But I think there’s a fun quote from a Dune audiobook I was listening to that was like, too much order in research. You’ll never discover anything new. And so it’s a really fun balance between, as Michelle was saying, like you can make those calculated decisions, right? If you fail, you know, it’ll cost X amount. But if you win, like, you know, that’s part of being an entrepreneur is you’re taking you have a certain level of risk. And I would say that balance really comes on a program and technical level with me and Luke where I can definitely give ideas like, Here’s what I’m thinking we do. And he’s older than me, and so he can provide more like experience because he’s seen a lot more things. Like, I can be definitely naive and I understand that because I always want to see the good in people, and I like that about myself. Actually be a bit more rude. Be like, Hey, you should watch out and make sure someone’s not taking advantage of you. And I would say, like the biggest thing I really notice is actually people’s unknown biases. So like in your brain, you have like.
Speaker8: Thanks.
Lee Kantor: Erica’s cutting out a little bit.
Erika Guerrero: The same exact thing I say, but it delivers like someone asked.
Lee Kantor: So, Erica, you’re cutting out a little bit. But Robin, I see you nodding your head about these kind of biases. Can you speak a little bit, Robin, about you?
Robin Billups: Just you just you just reminded me that, you know, as I said before, my sons are engaged in the business as well. And my, my my 42 year old or my 38 year old, sometimes I have to remind them mom and dad are 25 and 30 years older than you guys. And we’ve been down the road a piece. Right. And because we may not necessarily be so technologically, technologically strong sometimes or we’re not up on the latest and the greatest, I always say to them, if the computer went down, what could you do with a piece of paper and a pencil, you know, that type of thing. So yeah. Erica, I hear you When you say that age wisdom, this is what I tell my, my, my young people wisdom and knowledge comes with time. It comes with time. And Michelle, I love what you said about being able to take a risk and validating what that risk looks like and still taking the risk. I think that most of the time you learn from those situations. You learn a lot more about yourself, you learn a lot more about your business, and you learn a lot more about how you’re going to grow the culture of your company. When you have those situations where it may not turn out the way you wanted it to and or it may fail, you know? So that’s that’s good practice.
Speaker7: Yeah.
Michelle Muncy: And go ahead. Sorry, Erica.
Erika Guerrero: The wisdom tells you. Right. But you definitely should listen to it because these little tidbits of knowledge that you wouldn’t have.
Lee Kantor: Now, Michelle, you were going to add something?
Michelle Muncy: Yeah. One of the things, too, that I was going to say is it helps with the knowledge. You know, sometimes I think about, gosh, I wish that our the employees that we have could, you know, think like so and so, you know, this, that and the other thing and kind of extrapolate on an idea and I’m you know, I’ll come to him and I’ll be disappointed. I’m like it just it makes sense. So I think what makes sense in an entrepreneurial mind isn’t making sense to the employees. And they take direction. And he helps me kind of again see the big picture. Like that’s the reason they’re not, you know, they’re employees and not entrepreneurs. And that’s why we do what we do, even though sometimes the frustration level is there for me when I’m like, but it’s and he’s like, well, if it was that easy for everybody, they would be doing what we’re doing. And again, it kind of brings me back a sense of reality. So he really grounds me because I’m up there floating sometimes and I do need that balance, which is really nice.
Lee Kantor: So how do you think it’s impacted your culture of your company having both of you lead?
Michelle Muncy: Well, for us. I mean, we have very distinct roles as far as what we do. And it sounds like both Robin and Erica maybe also do as well as he he stays in his lane. I stay in my lane. I give him the freedom to do his job. I don’t micromanage him whatsoever. I have full faith in my business partner that he’s going to be doing his job. I’m not running after him worried about and that a lot of times with partners, it’s like, gosh, are you pulling your weight? And again, I’ll just speak for myself. What makes us successful is I don’t have to guess or wonder or hope. He’s pulling his weight. He is pulling his weight and my weight. And so I was listening to a presentation where they were talking about relationships and, you know, and it is true. I mean, if you talk to them and I do say this like I’ve got about 10%. I mean, hopefully he’s got the you know, even 80 or 90% to carry me at that time. But he’s still in his lane but helping to support my role also. And I’m there to support him. And technology when we need to look at features or we need to build on something. And I think there’s just a respect level. And when one of us is down, the other one’s, you know, picking us up and that kind of thing. So it we have been able to find this dance that really works. And I don’t know, you know, I feel like it is very unique, especially in this space. And it takes a long time to develop. And it’s like when Erica was said, I mean, I’m not surprised that she ended up marrying her partner because, you know, it is such a blessing. And even with Robin, they’ve been married 52 years. This is unique rather than, I think, a standard.
Robin Billups: Well, you know, and to your point, Michel, first, we’ve been dating 52 years. We’ve been married 46 years. And to that point, literally, he went away to school. I went away to school, and then we got married. And, you know, right after I graduated from college. So literally, when I say we actually grew up together, we kind of were raised to a large degree. And what I heard you say earlier, and I think this is critical, we all bring the stuff that our parents gave us to the table. Right? And I tell people all the time, you nurture the things that you like and you have to work on the things that you don’t like because it’s in you to be that and do that. And so for us, my husband literally kind of like lets me lead this thing because I’m the one that decided I was going to be a consultant. But he certainly is there for me when I need to pass something by him or when I have a new idea and having to rope rope me in because I’m like you. I like ideas. I’m like, Eric, I want to push it out.
Robin Billups: I want to get it. I want to put a strategy together. I want to work that strategy. And one of the things that I want to say to women in particular, you hear all the time, you know, people ask that question of what does work life balance looks like look like? Nobody can give you that answer. That answer belongs to you, your partner and your family. So to Michelle, you made a very valid point. Sometimes you he’s at 80% and you got the 20 or sometimes it’s 5050. And so again, work life balance. There’s no such thing as that. You know, we got all these buzzwords that people operate and live off of, and I think that we need to just let that be. They’re just buzzwords because at the end of the day, organically, you will figure it out if you are committed to each other. And one last thing I’ll say, you don’t have to. You always have to love your partner, but sometimes you don’t like them, sometimes you don’t, you know, sometimes you don’t like them. And that’s that’s natural. That’s natural. Can be prolonged, but that is natural.
Lee Kantor: So how do you work through those kind of points of friction? And especially when you are in a married relationship where they could spill into a personal life and they they may not be siloed in your business where it’s hard to have, you know, kind of really strong lines between them.
Robin Billups: Well, you know, for me, it always has. This thing of business is business and personal is personal. If you keep the I learned that so very long ago when I got into commercial real estate, you know, women could be in the residential side and you could do credit cards and lines of credit and all of that. But when I got into commercial real estate, you cannot take this stuff personal. This is not personal. This is business. And so that’s kind of been the way I’ve trained Robin. My husband is just one of those easy, you know, I’m high energy. He’s the easy going guy, right back to that yin and yang thing. And so how do you do that? You cannot you cannot let your. Personal overlap onto your business piece, and you can’t let the business overlap on your personal, because I think that’s where it gets confusing. And now you’re saying stuff that you don’t really mean and all of that kind of stuff. You know, we I’ll be very candid with you, all of us know the button that we could punch that will pop them up out the box and they’ll never go back in the box. Right? So you can’t dance around those buttons. You really just can’t. You have to keep the personal, personal and keep the professional professional. And sometimes you just have to say, you know what? Let’s just walk away and come back to this in a few minutes once we calm down or, you know, once we do a little bit more due diligence, you know, that type of thing, you have to work at it, no question.
Speaker7: Erica’s.
Michelle Muncy: I don’t know if Erica wants to chime in, but coming from the perspective of we are not married, but we are extremely close, both of us have partners. Is that he well, and he’s been married for several years. There has to be a lot of trust on like even coming from his wife and knowing that there’s no boundaries that are going to be crossed. I did just run into a situation even this week with a gal who had a a male business partner, and there was that threat and that insecurity from their spouse that was coming through. And so I think part of our job is because we do have such a close relationship and being on the outside is to make it clear that those and make the spouse comfortable that that we’re not going to cross those boundaries, that our intention is to build this together and that they’re are part of that. And so I’ve included her a lot, you know, and hopefully we’ve built a relationship over the years to where she’s comfortable and know those won’t be crossed as well. So anyways, I think that is an important part to make is that the spouses need to be comfortable, you know, because we’ll go on trips and stuff and they yeah, the trust needs to be there from all parties.
Speaker7: Absolutely.
Erika Guerrero: I could totally see that because business is a contract and really people forget that marriage is also a contract. And so they’re very serious to me about both of those things. And so I love to see that you’ve found that balance. I do think there’s pros and cons to being married to your business partner, just like pros and cons of not being married right there. Um, for me, I like it because I know that my husband and business partner can see my heart. And so he knows that, like, I’m never trying to do anything to, like, screw anyone over or like, you know, just I’m always trying to do my best and he can support me in that way to help communicate that sometimes because that goes back to what I was saying earlier with the like, unknown biases where I say something, it doesn’t land. But if he says the same thing, sometimes people will listen and it goes the opposite way too. Like if I’m wearing a suit and he’s wearing a t shirt and doesn’t have a haircut for three months, sometimes people don’t listen to him versus me. And so it’s been a really nice balance. And I agree exactly what Robin was saying, like business is business. But I would be lying if I said that sometimes you go home and you like, can’t stop talking about this one thing that you have. And I mean, as an entrepreneur, it’s work life balance is like, What do you mean? Like, I’m not working? So it’s kind of like you got to find your your peace with it. And I think really just make time to do the things that are important to you because, you know, when we’re. Old. And, you know, we look back on our life. I want to remember those memories on the beach of looking at my family and not saying, Oh, I chose business always over that personal life.
Robin Billups: One of the things that I think is important to and Michelle, you hit on it. You know, when you actively engage the other parties, we’re literally all of us are looking to try to build legacy businesses. Correct. So if something were to happen to the partner, you know, and not not in a in a not being morbid, but if something were to happen, that individual who’s the other partner could potentially be the person who could step in. Right. And then, you know, I have I have a bunch of work husbands. I have a bunch of work husbands. I’m working on a big commercial real estate construction project now with a guy. And his wife called me up. She introduced me. She’s we bank certified. She introduced me to him and she goes, Robin, you know, Mike, Michael thinks you’re his work wife, you know? And I said, Yeah, because we talk every day. You know, we’re trying to get this project done. And so, again, I think that take Erica, you said it best take the time to have that time where you’re smelling the roses. You guys are going out for some cocktails or you’re coming over for brunch or you go to church together or you go to the kids program, you have to incorporate those individuals in the family so that they feel like they’re not only just you’re not just building the business for yourself, but you’re building a legacy business and you’re, you know, part of the community. I think that that helps as well.
Lee Kantor: Now, Do you see any advantages of coming into a business with a male partner and especially the two people that are married? Is there an advantage that you’re married as opposed to just business partners? I mean.
Speaker7: Just. Well, I can.
Michelle Muncy: Go ahead. Go ahead, Erica.
Erika Guerrero: I was just saying, I’m recently married, so I really don’t know. Time will tell, I guess.
Lee Kantor: I mean, I see it. I mean, there’s pros and cons in everything like we talked about earlier, but being married and having that united front, um, I can see as an advantage and, and the support that comes with being married is an advantage. But then it’s just, it’s easy for it to creep into your day to day life and not have those lines drawn where the workday ends and the and the rest of the day begins. So I just wanted to know if any of you felt that as a net. Obviously you’re doing it. So it’s a net positive today. But if you could do it again, is it something you would say, okay, that was the right move? I would definitely do that again.
Robin Billups: Well, Michelle said it best. It’s that trust factor. You know, this is the person that you do trust, You know, even even like I said, even sometimes you’re a little ticked off with them, you know. But that’s that’s temporary because at the end of the day, the value add of these relationships and the legacy and the history and the trust factor that you built with them, The one thing I can say and Erica keeps chiming in on this, you know, sometimes when people want to receive information, they don’t want to receive it from a female. You know, they they just because they have these unconscious biases or they’re just prejudice or whatever. And so, again, it’s I think that it’s critically important to have some you know, even if you’re not partnering with someone, you should always have that male counterpart that. You know what? Let me bring you to the meeting. You know, let you let me have you attend this meeting. Let me let you kick the meeting off, you know, that type of thing. You know, historically, I was because of my voice being so heavy, people would always say, I need to talk to Mr. Billups. Yes. Can I help you? I want to talk to Mr. Billups that I spoke with. Yes. Can I help you? I want to talk to Robin Billups. Yes. Can I help you? Because they weren’t expecting me to be the female, you know, leading the train kind of thing as as the conductor of that particular day. And so I think the trust and the the the way the outside receives you, depending on what their mindset is, if there’s definitely a value add there.
Michelle Muncy: And just to chime in, where Robin kind of touched exactly on what I wanted to say is for as much as I you know, it’s frustrating, I still use him as kind of like the heavy hand, even if I’m making the decisions. It’s there is that respect factor coming from a male and it is helpful to have or if I’m going back, it’s like, you know, I need to check with my business partner, see what he has to say. And I do use that to my advantage, um, again. And he’s just like, Well, what do you want to do? And, but, but he does know. It’s kind of like good cop, bad cop, and he takes the brunt of it. Is it fair? Is it the way it is? I mean, do we get further because of it? Absolutely. I’m just going to be honest about it. So we do have that. But that benefit by having a male partner and it you know, just like with anything, I mean. Yeah. So totally agree with you Robin, there on that one.
Robin Billups: That good cop bad cop thing works every time. Every time. You know, sometimes my husband can be excited about something and, you know, and he’ll call me and he’ll say, okay, now I need you to play that role. I’m like, Oh, cool. I will play that role because you’re talking money, you’re talking time, you’re talking, add something else to the mix. And so with that, somebody has to say has to it’s a very good negotiating tool, I’ll put it that way.
Lee Kantor: And it sounds like it’s a circumstance where you’re on the same team. So whatever it takes to get the win you’re willing to do.
Robin Billups: Bam, shakalaka, boom, boom. That means that’s the right answer. Absolutely.
Lee Kantor: So now let’s talk about a little bit of lessons learned. Is there anything you can share? If you were advising somebody who’s thinking about either going into business with their spouse or a male partner, there are some kind of do’s and don’ts that you some advice you can share.
Michelle Muncy: For me, one of the big things is, is the respect factor, especially if you’re going in it with a male, is that you absolutely 1,000% have to respect that individual and have confidence in that person. I mean, again, partnering we try to partner with companies or what have you. And you know, it a lot of times it goes south and so you just need to know what that person you’re going into. I’m willing to go into battle with this person. And as Robin has said several times, it’s not always perfect. And I would love to say that we’ve gotten along. And there’s been a couple times I didn’t know if we were going to be able to pull through. Um, and a lot of give and take, like, do I do I want to go into battle with this person and really think through it and being willing, willing to work hard a lot longer hours than you would as if you were just working. I mean, hiring somebody in the corporate world, it’s a whole new ball game because they just don’t have this. It’s just a different work style. And, you know, do they have the same vision? Like, can this person carry you or do they complement you? I mean, there’s a million ways you can just you really have to do a pros and a and a SWOt analysis on this sucker and make sure I have the tendency to just think we all can dance around a maypole and everybody’s going to get along and it’s not the case at all. And and so, again, it’s the reality of what it actually looks like and being able to take a step back and do an assessment.
Robin Billups: When I was working in the supplier supply chain inclusion space, you know, and people because again, as I said early on, most of these companies are looking for capacity and scalability now. And Michelle, you made a very valid point that when you’re looking at staff and adding to your team, people that you’re looking to hire nowadays have a lot different perspective. And I think, you know, Covid had a lot to do with it. But at the end of the day, I think it was coming anyway because we are in this revolutionary change about how work functions and how companies function. And and now folks are having to deal with women, right? You know that the woman is the lead. You know, she may he may be a silent partner, you know, that type of thing. But when I was working in the in the in the procurement space, one of the things that I learned and one of the things that I always shared is. Instead of looking for a partner, Looking for look for a team. Right. Look, do a teaming agreement first. Do the dating. That’s what I call the dating process. You do a team in agreement with somebody so that you can decide whether you can partner with them or not.
Robin Billups: Right. And so when you’re when you’re looking at should I do business with my husband, should I build a a business with my male partner? I think you have to come up with a project that allows you to see the teaming agreement process unfold, the dating process unfold, and have to have those real candid conversations and possibly sign up for Michelle’s services so that you learn, you know, your style and your culture. And and again, as I said before, how you were raised comes out in all of this. You know, what what kind of parenting you receive and what kind of education you receive, all of these things come into play. And so that teaming agreement, you know, building a team first before you actually dive into, you know, a joint venture or LLC or, you know, something that’s going to be concrete, concrete, concrete that’s going to take a legal process to unwind. So I think that build the team first and then that way, you know, whether you can you’re dating and their success and you can get married into a partnership or a joint venture or something of that nature.
Speaker7: Erica. I feel married. Oh, hi. I feel very.
Erika Guerrero: Empowered by having a partner that I trust so much. And I think that’s. I, like Robin said, like, I’m definitely the leader. I get calls. Mr. Guerrero or Hello, Eric and I would like to talk to the business owner and really my partner. We love it because we’re in a male dominated engineering scientist business, right? My company name is called Electric Goddess. And so it’s very polarizing, right? So there’s some people who are like, oh my gosh, I love this. And then there’s other people who you can tell they’re kind of uncomfortable. But really, there’s so many different layers to why we chose that name. But really bringing that femininity and that balance to an industry where I, I personally I mean, this is my experience as a woman. I think women are wonderful leaders, and I think that men love to serve. And I think that men are very much, you know. And I’m saying this generally just very much wanting to accomplish a goal where, you know, generally women can think about things from a like many different levels at once. And, you know, there’s crossover with that with anyone.
Erika Guerrero: But really in my role, I’ve been very empowered to take that lead and know that I have kind of that partner who has my back that and is making sure that like, Hey, we’re doing this to the best of our ability and we’re doing great. I will say that being married has gotten the same kind of polarizing effect because there’s people who are like, This is great. You know, you and your partner are very much, you know, integrated in your lives. And so I can see you building that legacy. I can see your passion. And I’ve also had the other side where I’ve had people being like, Oh, you’re married, like not liking that so much. And then I’ve even had like previous employees who are like, okay, Erica, you made that decision because that’s how your partner felt. And, you know, I can’t believe I’m working for a married couple. And I was like, wow, I can’t believe that, you know, you’re still working here. But it’s it’s been an interesting journey for sure.
Speaker7: Now.
Robin Billups: My one last comment would be to.
Speaker7: Um.
Robin Billups: I’ve always been trained that the vision is given to an individual right. The mission is getting written by the team, but the vision is given to an individual. So everybody’s job is to capture that vision and move the vision out. Versus I got a vision. You got a vision, and we got to fight on which one we’re going to push forward. Right. And so I think that if people if you’re if you share that with your team, meaning your staff, especially the vision was, you know, generated, captured by this individual, this is the vision. Be very candid about what that vision looks like and what the mission of the organization is and do that early and often. I think that people tend not to revisit why they got into business, how they became a partner in this business. And I think that we can lead by example by being more narrative about the stories that we share and being more authentic in under and sharing the good and the bad through this process. But I think that, you know, again, the vision is going to come from one individual and then that somebody, everybody else’s job is to get on board with that.
Michelle Muncy: I’m going to definitely second that with the team and with my partner is that he enhances my vision and that’s what’s great and can come up with stuff I didn’t think about. But supporting the original goal and making that come to fruition, whatever that looks like is that. And I’m going to guess it’s that same way with Erica too, is that they can expand on it. But you’re right without I mean, it’s already hectic enough and to not have that chaos but you’re working on that single vision. And a lot of times he has to say to me, you know, especially even with Covid and things changing and the employee structure looking different and just the the mindset of people is, where are we at? Do we need to just rather than grow and expand, it’s like, let’s just stay in our lane and work on this. And you know, right now, just so we don’t, you know, go off the rails. And so he does a really good job. And, you know, I don’t want to build a statue for everything he’s done. Right. But it’s just keeping me in our lane a lot of times. And to stay focused on that one single vision. So good. Good call there, Robin.
Erika Guerrero: Yes. Thank you, Robin, for taking what I was trying to communicate and putting wonderful words on it. I appreciate that.
Lee Kantor: And and. And Michelle.
Robin Billups: Excuse me. Excuse me. Lee. Michelle made it. She she she she. She just reminded me of something else. Is that vision creep? Right? You know, you know, the market changes, things change. Covid hit, and then the vision starts to creep because nobody’s staying on task with that, with what we originally started with. That’s good stuff. Really good stuff.
Lee Kantor: Yeah. And clarity around this one. True North makes everything a lot easier. It’s it it makes everybody clear on what what the real goal is. And it helps you make decisions when everybody’s in agreement of of what you’re trying to accomplish, then everything becomes easier. But that requires a constant reminder and the communicating clearly so that everybody is on the same page. And it’s so important when you’re onboarding new people so they understand how everything fits together. So yeah, I think clarity around the True North is critical for any successful organization.
Michelle Muncy: Yeah. And I don’t know if anybody is, you know, I can identify with this post. Covid is trying to get your, your staff or the people that you’re onboarding in alignment with what your vision is and the value of what that is. I mean, we’re we’re struggling on our side and you can explain to them and it’s yes, yes, yes. But just the work ethic is changed post Covid, the mindset has changed post Covid. It’s just it’s a it’s a whole new ball game that we’re finding. And and we’re just trying to find a real balance. I sometimes I say we have survivor’s guilt because we do online education. And so for us, we did we did fine. But again, just finding the resources and the staff to help move this thing forward is and one thing one thing I did want to to mention that and sometimes I struggle. But when you’re in these sorts of partnerships and I think any partnership is leaving your ego at the door, you know, check it in. And you know, it’s not we’re not going to die if anything doesn’t go our way. It’s just, you know, to to remove ourselves and finding like, again, we’ll go back to that work life balance is just sometimes I have to detach myself and know that I’m not going to die if these decisions aren’t made the way that I see that they need to be made. And so letting some of that control go, too. And that’s that’s tough as as an entrepreneur, because I see it a certain way.
Robin Billups: Well, you know, the other one a couple of last things that I wanted to say. And based on exactly what you just said, Michelle, I one of the things that I learned early on in my training, as I mentioned, to deliver the note early and often, you know, just just just don’t skirt that issue. Do not skirt the issue. I think especially with this change and the mentality that people have nowadays, it’s I was trained many, many years ago. Documentation is the key. You know, what happens is people don’t want to take the time to document, but you have to document that situation right then and there. You know, even if it’s, you know, sending a short email right after the meeting is over with, you know, to recap. So you need to put some processes in place that and also too, I think was critically important. If you put that process in place and you have the documentation when you’re not there and the other partner is the person you know you’re traveling and they’re there managing the day to day, they can actually go to that person’s personnel file or go to the HR or whatever and be able to look at what has been going on. You’ve already had the conversation about it, but the documentation, I think, allows you to be more candid without being concerned about becoming more personal or unprofessional about it.
Robin Billups: And I think that is critically important. Two things. One, don’t micromanage the weeds when you hire a stellar employee. I think that that tends to happen in companies where people go and hire the best and the brightest and then they want to micromanage them from one day to the next and always to make sure you’re doing one on ones with your with your team, you know, make sure that you have that time where you’re spending some time on their professional development and your professional development. Because I think people tend to work in their business and not on their business. And that working on that business is that documentation, making sure that they capture the vision and that the vision is delivered early and often. And my one last thing, if you have a receptionist, everybody in the company has to be marketing and business development. So when a call comes in, they can’t say, well, you know, Eric is in a meeting and can I take a message? No, how can I help you? You know that everybody that you hire has to be able to tow the barge, carry, carry the load and tote that barge, because again, you don’t have the time, the space and the money to hire people just to do a job. Right. So so keep that in mind. Please keep that in mind.
Speaker7: That’s great.
Erika Guerrero: Michelle. Like, I really feel what you are going through. I will say that having a staff is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in business, right? The human factor is not something that’s super calculated. I do want to say with hiring, you know, one of the things that I found that is the best is what are these people doing in their spare time? Because you can teach skills. You cannot teach character. And if someone’s character is I’m in my garage, tinkering, building stuff on the side doesn’t even have to be anything we’re working on. But they just have the drive and the energy to want to learn. That to me is like the most one of the most important things and characters. Characteristics of somebody I like to hire is passionate about learning.
Lee Kantor: Now, before we wrap up, I want to make sure everybody gets a chance to share the best way to connect with them. Robin, why don’t we start with you? What’s the best way to connect with you and the Billups group?
Robin Billups: You can reach me. I’m on I’m on LinkedIn. You know, I’m on LinkedIn. My profile is there. I think I say LinkedIn is the professional Facebook. And and so I would I would strongly suggest, folks, just look me up. Robin Billups I’m the Billups group. I’m on LinkedIn. I don’t I did I’m not building a huge business because I’m expecting my sons to kind of take it to the next level. Um, but I am on LinkedIn and I think that would be the best way.
Lee Kantor: And the website for the Billups group.
Robin Billups: I don’t have a website, a website.
Lee Kantor: So just. And Billups is Billups, Correct. All right. Michelle.
Speaker7: I.
Michelle Muncy: Um, we try to make ourselves accessible. So pretty much if you went to my website online parenting programs.com or just emailed Michelle at online parenting programs.com able to adjust as our company and online parenting programs is the is an easy way to get a hold of me or any of the staff. No I mean it’s kind of like just find me and the phones will roll over to me. So I in this industry, I have to be accessible whether I like it or not. So yeah. Michelle at online parenting programs.com and our phone numbers all over the website but yeah feel free to reach.
Speaker7: Out and.
Lee Kantor: Erica.
Speaker7: You can find.
Erika Guerrero: Me on LinkedIn as Erika Lauren Guerrero and our company website is Electric Gotesco.
Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, thank you all for sharing your story today. You’re doing important work and we appreciate you. And Pamela, before we wrap. You mentioned a lot of people ask you questions about, you know, what is the breakdown between a male and a female partner in order to be certified? Do you mind answering that question? What what is how does that work?
Dr. Pamela Williamson: So for certification, the woman owner has to be 51%. And we look at course at ownership and governance, right? So we need to make sure that that women owner is actually leading the processes.
Lee Kantor: Well, great job in putting this group together. I think we covered a lot of ground and it’s an important topic.
Dr. Pamela Williamson: I agree. I walked away with lots of nuggets. And so, Robin, definitely appreciate your nugget around. If you’re thinking about moving into a partnership, try it out first, do a couple of projects, make sure it’s a good fit. Erica I love Jaws Around. Trust that you have to truly be able to trust that the individual has your back and they have to trust that you have theirs. And Michelle, respect definitely is key to building a strong partnership. So I appreciate your comments on respect and and how you communicate and move that forward throughout the day to day. So Lee, I think we had a great group of ladies who shared lots of nuggets. And for both those individuals who are thinking about moving into a partnership, but also for those individuals who are in long term partnerships.
Speaker8: Yep.
Lee Kantor: Well, that’s a wrap for Women in Motion. This is Lee Kantor for Dr. Pamela Williamson. We will see you all next time.
With a focus in marketing and a background in various for profit and not for profit companies, including much professional and volunteer work, Kyle McIntosh wondered, “How can I pair the passion and commitment to community progress of a non-profit with the sustainability and reach of a for profit company?”
Albert Loveland has joined the MAC⁶ Team full-time. Al will be helping us to takeMAC⁶ to the next level as Vice President of Operations(and, for all of you who are familiar with EOS, as the MAC⁶Integrator).
