Intro: [00:00:03] Broadcasting live from the SHRM 2021 Conference at the Las Vegas Convention Center, it’s time for Workplace MVP. Brought to you by R3 Continuum, a global leader in workplace behavioral health, crisis, and, security solutions. Now, here’s your host.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:17] Hey, everyone. Jamie Gassmann here, your host of Workplace MVP. And we are broadcasting our episode today from the SHRM 2021 Conference in Las Vegas, Nevada. And I have two wonderful guests with me today. I’ve got Josh Rock from Truck & Equipment. He’s the Talent Acquisition Manager. And from Workology, I have Jessica Miller- Merrell, Founder and Chief Innovation Officer. Welcome to the show you two.

Josh Rock: [00:00:48] Thanks, Jamie.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:00:49] Awesome to be here.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:00:50] So, I’m going to start out by talking with Josh, because I know you’ve kind of waited a little bit to connect with us on our show.

Josh Rock: [00:00:57] We’ve been chatting here and hanging out, and talking with your guys online via Twitter, you know, here at the show, just having a good time.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:01:02] Awesome. So, tell us a little bit about your background, how you got into talent acquisition, and just share with our audience a little bit more about you.

Josh Rock: [00:01:10] So, if any of your listeners are familiar with the cartoon Family Circus, where the kids would walk around a lawn and the whole yard and they have the dotted line, that’s how I fell into H.R. I started going to school for law, of all things. I fell into advertising for 16 years. And through that, I did ten years of recruitment advertising and trying to be a trusted advisor to H.R. professionals across the country and across the globe. And left that organization and went to work for my clients to teach them what I was doing outside but then within their walls, give them back control, back their budget, back to the power, instead of putting it in the hands of agencies. And I’ve been doing it ever since.

Josh Rock: [00:01:47] I went to work for a couple of health care organizations. I recently left a 36,000 employee health care group out of Minneapolis to join a truck dealership of nine locations, with now almost 400 employees. So, a huge paradigm shift, not only in the industry, but employee size, to lead their talent acquisition efforts and just have a good time every day.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:02:08] Yeah. Wow. And, obviously, now, hiring concerns and issues, how has that impacted the truck industry that you’re in?

Josh Rock: [00:02:17] You know, there’s impact. There’s not enough students going into the heavy duty diesel programs. And so, connecting with the schools, helping build curriculum to make that a more profitable venture for not only the schools, but the students, obviously. So, that way, we can continue to drive great business for us and then our customers. So, it’s going full cycle. It’s not just opening up a requisition, posting it on Indeed or any other partner just to wait for candidates to come in. We’ve had to be more holistic in our approach of finding, acquiring, and hiring great talent.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:02:51] Right. And so, talk to me a little bit about that approach. Are you going out to actual universities? You live in the St. Cloud area, I know there’s a big university in St. Cloud. I know I’ve been talking to you a little bit already. I know you’re a big Duluth.

Josh Rock: [00:03:06] Go Bulldogs.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:03:07] Go bulldogs.

Josh Rock: [00:03:08] Shane here from R3, he’s also a UMD Bulldog. We connected on Twitter because of our alumni association with UMD. So, yeah, I mean, I actively go out. Even in a post-pandemic world, I’m out visiting colleges already. I was down in Dallas recently. I was down in Denver. I’m now here going out and talking to students about how their careers could go well in diesel truck repair. And, you know, finding great ways about, not only who we are, what we do, and how they can grow with us, and set themselves up and maybe their families up for great success through careers in this venture. So, it’s fun.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:03:45] Yeah. Absolutely. And that’s such an impressionable age, right? I’m guessing you’re really looking at all students. But, you know, when you’ve got somebody who’s going through their program and they’re trying to figure out what they want to be when they get older, you can really have an impact. So, if another employer was looking at taking that same approach, you know, what are some kind of your advice, if you will, on how you would approach that?

Josh Rock: [00:04:13] You know, for me, it’s all about engagement. And engagement comes in different forms. Through active questioning of the people that you’re talking to, whether it’s a student or a student’s parents, about where do they want to take their career, where do they want to go, what do they want to achieve. You know, those things, layering those questions in to create a picture, a painting, of what that could be. And then, finding your organization – like mine here at Nuss – where that resonates. For some, it’s time off. For some, it’s paid. For some, it’s advancement.

Josh Rock: [00:04:46] You’re going to find those threads just in genuine conversation and questions with those students or alumni from the schools or parents looking at how do I help set my child up for a successful career. And then, just finding those threads. It doesn’t have to be, “Hey, we’re offering a $10,000 sign on bonus and you can start tomorrow.” It’s more about what do you want? And then, finding that lane of the value proposition from your organization and going through that.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:05:15] Yeah. Well, and it’s interesting you mentioned, like, finding that lane and kind of having that engagement opportunity. Because, you know, I’ve read job descriptions over my career. I think we all have.

Josh Rock: [00:05:25] Unfortunately.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:05:25] And sometimes you’re left going, “I don’t get it. I don’t know. Maybe I like this job, but there was one word that kind of threw me off.” So, it’s almost like how can that employer step out of that job description. How can they empower themselves to take that different approach? What’s worked for you?

Josh Rock: [00:05:43] So, a great story. I had a local – or, actually, a national job board reach out to me and say,” Hey Josh. You need to invite people through our portal to apply for your positions.” And I told him he was wrong. Straight up I said, “You know what? Actually, what I need to do is when somebody voices interest in one of our jobs through your portal, I’m going to call them. I’m going to text them and say, ‘Hey, you know what? I found your information. I want to talk about where your career is going and what we can do together.'”

Josh Rock: [00:06:14] Because my job is not a gatekeeper. There’s a lot of recruiters, unfortunately, in the United States that act like gatekeepers. Actually, what you should be doing is being dance partners. Helping them navigate to their career within your organization. And so, instead, what I told this vendor, I said, “What I’m going to do is you guys are going to bring me information. I’m going to digest that information. I’m going to actively reach out to them on my own, through my own information, my own tools and technology and say, ‘Hey, I’m interested in you because. Now, I want you to join me because.'” Instead of saying, “Hey, do this for me, do this for me.” Because they’re getting the information. They’re holding the power. No.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:06:52] No. I need to hold the power, right?

Josh Rock: [00:06:53] Exactly. Exactly. I’m the customer. I need to do what works for me. Not what works for you and your technology. And what you can then put on your advertisement to say you had this many candidates to customers. That doesn’t matter to me. What matters to me is that Paul Alexander from Sheboygan, Wisconsin applied for my position, has an interest in my role, was in the U.S. Military, now wants to come work for me. I want to get him on the phone as quickly as I can and find a way that maybe this is an opportunity for him to drive his career forward.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:07:24] And so, you’re very active on social media with the Twitter, because that’s how you found us.

Josh Rock: [00:07:30] Kind of. Yeah.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:07:31] So, talk to me how do you leverage Twitter or how do you leverage LinkedIn? How do you empower even Facebook, potentially, I’m guessing, could be a really good avenue for you? How do you leverage that in a way that’s helped you to get good candidates to reach out to?

Josh Rock: [00:07:45] So, in my current industry in transportation, I’m not going to find a ton of diesel technicians on Twitter. It’s just not going to happen. I can do it on Facebook. I can do searches by putting in diesel technology. I can look for trucking. I can do keywords to find people that have similar similarities or have posted something about it, and then reach out to them that way.

Josh Rock: [00:08:07] In my previous industry in health care, I could do it much easier. Because I could go on to Pinterest and find a female in Atlanta, Georgia looking at recipes for something. But she also posted on her Pinterest wall scrubs that she really liked.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:08:25] Interesting.

Josh Rock: [00:08:25] And I can say, “Oh, I see you’re a nurse. We’ve got opportunities here in Minnesota. What’s your specialty? Are you an ED? Are you in transplant?” Strike up a conversation, say, “Hey, you know what? I work for this organization. We have this many openings. I’ve got these many hospitals, depending upon the kind of community you want to be in.” I can do those types of things that way.

Josh Rock: [00:08:40] You can do a lot of different things on social channels based on what somebody is interested in. It doesn’t have to be just the resume on LinkedIn or that they’re looking for a job that they posted on Twitter. That stuff’s easy. You can do that really quickly. But sometimes it’s just as simple as finding that moment in time post about what they liked and then find the correlations. It takes time. It’s sourcing. It’s active sourcing. But you can find really good talent.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:09:07] Yeah. And sometimes going out of the script of, like, this role helps you to kind of get that engagement that you’ve been mentioning.

Josh Rock: [00:09:15] Well, you talked about social media so a great story about SHRM. We’re sitting here in Las Vegas. We all flew here Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And I’m on the flight from Minneapolis here and I’m sitting by four people in my row. I’m like, “Hey, are any of you guys going to the SHRM Conference?” All four of them said yes. I said, “Anybody staying at Resorts World, the new Conrad Hotel?” It’s where I’m staying. By the way, if you haven’t been to Las Vegas’s brand new hotel, it’s fantastic. There’s their plug. I love those guys. It’s good.

Josh Rock: [00:09:45] But this young man, his name is Ethan. He’s from Minneapolis. He was sitting with his mom. And they’re like, “Yeah. We’re staying there too.” I said, Well, why don’t we ride share? Save each other some money. Maybe we could put it on gambling, or food, or something like that later on.” Come to find out he’s a senior at a local college back in Minnesota looking to, you know, build upon his career. And I said, “Are you on social media?” “Well, yeah. I’m on Twitter.” I said, “Well, here. We’re going to do something while we’re in the car.”

Josh Rock: [00:10:08] So, I took a photo, tagged him in a post. I said, “Hey, all my SHRM social influencers, I want you to meet Ethan. All H.R. leaders here at SHRM, I want you to meet Ethan. He’s looking to start his career in the next year. Let’s connect with him, and help build him, and get to network with him, and connect with him.” He has over 50 followers now. When I talked to him, he was at 18 on the flight. He’s over 50. And these are all H.R. leaders. These are people that could offer him an opportunity, could give him tips towards connecting with other leaders. It’s endless.

Josh Rock: [00:10:36] We’re walking through the hall and I run into Ethan. We’re sitting with the other students. I said, “Hey, Ethan. How’s it going for you so far?” “It’s great. I met these people. I got invited to these dinners. I’m going to this social. All because you shared who I am at this conference.”

Josh Rock: [00:10:50] And there’s this young lady from University of Tennessee, Knoxville, sitting behind me. Her name is Stephanie. And I said, “Stephanie, can we blow you up on Twitter too?” “Sure.” The next thing you know, people are following Stephanie. Her dad followed me on Twitter yesterday and said, “Thanks for expanding my daughter’s networking world.” These are the things that we do.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:11:09] I love that.

Josh Rock: [00:11:09] You know, it may not benefit me as a recruiter at Nuss. But if I can give back, I’m happy to do it. And that’s part of the reason of one of the things we talked about earlier before coming on the show was #JobHuntChat. We’ve been doing a job advice chat on Twitter for over 11 years every Monday night. I don’t do it because I’m getting paid off it. I do it because I enjoy it. I love to give back, because if one little bit allows somebody to leverage their career, provide for themselves or their family, good karma for the day.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:11:36] Yeah. Absolutely. And engagement is the key. Not being afraid to strike up that conversation and start just, you know, getting to know people. I mean, it’s amazing what you can find out and what you can learn, which is obviously what we’re doing today, which is great.

Josh Rock: [00:11:48] Exactly.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:11:48] Well, thank you so much, Josh. It has been great chatting with you. I’m going to shift over to our next guest from Workology, Jessica Miller-Merrell. Welcome. She’s the Founder and Chief Innovation Officer. Talk to us, Jessica, how did you get into this?

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:12:03] I started a blog. I started a blog in 2005. It was a job search blog originally called Blogging for Jobs. And I was an H.R. director at a Fortune 200 company, and I was trying to fill inside/outside sales positions and supporting roles. And I started the blog to be able to build a pipeline of candidates. And it’s now became a business. I have a team of 11 and we provide resources, information, support, and training for H.R. And workplace leaders. We reach over 800,000 every single month. It’s amazing.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:12:37] That is amazing. Fantastic. So, now, you’re here at SHRM, obviously, probably been here multiple times. How do you leverage this conference for building on maybe your content or learning about what’s kind of trending within the H.R. space?

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:12:53] So, it’s my first conference in – what? – two-and-a-half years or whenever the world stopped, right? So, it’s been great to hug people, shake hands, masked of course. But just connect in person and have a conversation that doesn’t involve screens. I mean, my business is predominantly online, and the work that we do is mostly digital. But it’s nice to just be able to randomly connect with somebody on Twitter or in a session and then learn more about what they’re doing and what’s important to them.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:13:27] I have a lot of access to different resources information in people. And so, for me, it’s all about connecting those people to other people or those other resources. And sometimes the best way to do that is in crazy atmosphere like this, where we’re all kind of the same, but we’re all different, but we all have that thing in common which is working and loving the human resources industry.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:13:49] Absolutely. And so, for content, I mean, you mentioned it’s kind of a resource hub. You’ve got different elements that help H.R. leaders. I got to imagine you’ve just been pushing a ton of content out over this last year helping them with how to guide through the pandemic and others. So, how do you create that and how are they accessing it?

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:14:09] So, predominantly, there’s four different ways that H.R. leaders get access to our resources. We do have a number of trainings. We provide H.R. certification prep for HRCI and SHRM certification resources that’s all digital and on demand. And then, we also have a membership that allows H.R. leaders to get access to our library of resources, connect with me, connect with others. And then, be able to just have aggravated customized content delivered to them or training or information. So, training is number one.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:14:39] And then, we also have a newsletter that reaches over 500,000 H.R. leaders at Workology every single week. And we organize and deliver similar stuff – like, the Biden press conference will probably be on our next newsletter – just providing information to help them do their jobs better and to spend less time searching the internet for it, like we just deliver it out for them. So, I’m like their trusted friend that knows all the things over cocktails or coffee that’s like, “Here’s everything that you need.”

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:15:09] We also have a podcast ourselves. It’s called the Workology Podcast, over seven years going. So, that’s been a lot of fun. And then, of course, my blog, and we have over 8,000 articles and information there. It’s this living embodiment and a testament to how vast, and interesting, and amazing the human resource industry really is.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:15:30] Yeah. Well, there’s so many different facets. You know, there’s the legal side, regulation, talent and acquisition that we talked about, and there’s also the hiring part of it. So, one part of HR that’s your favorite that gets you just all giddy, what would that be?

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:15:48] Right now, I’m really fascinated with the evolution of the chief human resources and the chief people officer. I was telling Nicole as we were waiting that we have been doing a podcast series, really, since the beginning of the pandemic that’s just focused on talking to CHROs, and understanding what has their attention right now, maybe an initiative or program. What’s their HR organization like? How do they talk to their executive team? And it has been amazing. We’ve talked to companies that are, you know, Fortune 5 CHROs. And then, we’ve talked to companies that have 57 employees that are chief people officers in their organization.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:16:29] So, it’s really interesting to see how that’s evolving and changing. And then, the kinds of resources that we need as CHROS, regardless of the company size, need, tools, information technology is really evolving. And it definitely has increased in the speed with the pandemic, because we have to be able to be more flexible and pivot and agile. And that’s different than it ever has before because we don’t know – well, we always didn’t know what tomorrow is going to be. But we really don’t know what tomorrow is going to be in the workplace.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:17:02] Yeah. Even still today, right?

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:17:04] Yeah. Every single day, it’s changing. And, especially if you’re a global H.R. leader, if you have a global organization, maybe you’re in the U.S., maybe you’re in India, maybe you have a team in Pakistan or Mexico, you have to be able to lead not just to your core team or your team in the U.S., but you have to be able to support those employees everywhere.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:17:25] And now that so many people are remote, you might have Susan who decides to move to Portugal and now you’re faced with a whole another challenge as the head of HR. Like, how do I set a payroll and taxes and all these things for Susan who didn’t tell me for the last eight months that she relocated to Portugal. And this is happening a lot. I’m seeing it. I’m getting emails, DMs, text messages of, you know, freaked out H.R. personnel like, “I need help.” And I have been drowning for the last two years. And now here’s another just pivot or thing that we have to become an expert on and support the organization and our employees in.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:18:06] That’s fascinating. Because when they move, everything changes in terms of their employment. So, I mean, how an employee doesn’t share that with them, but you know [inaudible].

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:18:15] Well, they wanted to work remotely. I think the pandemic, like for me, I’ve had to really sit back and think about my life. And I think a lot of people have taken stock, like what is really important, what matters. And I hope that if you haven’t done that as an H.R. leader, you are doing that. And then, also, thinking about who you want to be in 18 months, two years or five years. Not just who you want to be as a person to your family and your friends, but as a leader in an organization supporting the business.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:18:44] And employees are making decisions and saying, “Hey, you know what? YOLO. I’m moving to Portugal. And right now everybody’s working from home, so nobody knows because I can do it over Zoom.” But they are just thinking about, “Okay. My boss, I just want to show them, him or her, that I can do this here. Or, you know, they’re probably never going to know.” They’re not thinking about the things that we have to deal with as H.R. leaders, employment laws, payroll, taxes, all the fun things. And, now, it’s not just somebody moving from Texas to Minnesota, it is somebody moving from Texas to Portugal or, you know, wherever else.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:19:21] So, quick question, because I had not heard that yet, but it makes total sense when you bring that up that an employee would do that because why not, right? How can an employer be proactive in saying, “If you’ve got ideas of doing this,” I mean, is there a way they can gently put that out there without maybe showing that they’re encouraging, but maybe is there communication that can be done?

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:19:44] It starts with a culture of trust and conversation. So, H.R. leaders – and they should be. And I know we have got a lot on our plate, so I hear you because you’re going to groan when I make this recommendation – you need to be investing as much time as you can talking to your people. And I don’t mean your managers and your frontline managers and your executive team. I mean, your actual people. And so, that means popping into Zoom calls, scheduling appointments, scheduling meetings, in-person or remote, however you’re going to do it. But the majority of your time should be spent with the people in the organization, and building that trust, and leading by example.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:20:23] So that when Susan decides to relocate to Portugal, she sees us as a human being, Josh or Jessica, “I might need to let my boss or Josh or Jess know what’s going on.” Just to check in.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:20:38] I think a lot of times we just look at someone who is in a position of management or leadership as a logo, not necessarily a person. So, as H.R. leaders, we need to lead with the humanity side of things. Go out there and build those relationships, set the tone for the rest of the organization.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:20:57] So that when Susan has a question because she’s probably just like, you know, no news is good news, right? So, she hasn’t heard anything about it, so she thinks it’s okay. But then, we can start to have those conversations because if there’s one person that’s done it in your organization, I guarantee you, there’s probably 15, 25, 45 more.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:21:17] I mean, personally, my goal is to move to Belize. I want to be, like, part time. I want to be in Texas. I want to be in Belize and wherever. My husband, he’s a little bit different. He just wants to relocate to wherever my daughter goes to college. Which I’m like, “Okay. We can own a house. But I’m moving to the Caribbean somewhere. I’m going to be snorkeling on my days off and when I’m not podcasting or speaking.”

Jamie Gassmann: [00:21:41] Like, this is going to happen.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:21:41] Yeah. And I think a lot of other people are wanting to do this. But if we don’t plan or prepare or at least consider this might be happening, because if it’s not moving to Belize or Portugal, it is mental health conversations or PTSD, or I’m having a lot of financial problems right now, or other things. This year has been hard for so many people, and so they’re just grabbing onto the one thing that brings them some happiness and just fills up their cup. And for Susan, that’s moving to Portugal. For me, it is Belize. And I’m going to talk about it on every podcast. I am moving there because I’m going to manifest and make it happen.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:22:21] Yeah. And then, you’ll do a podcast on living in Belize.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:22:24] Yeah. There’ll be a whole blog and a business. It’s going to be a whole thing.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:22:26] I can see it now. Fantastic. No, I’m glad we’re having that conversation, and I know you said people will groan at that. But you’re not the first person that I’ve talked to at the show that has mentioned that, about that senior, that executive level leadership needing to have more visibility kind of with employees. And that is a struggle, right? Because some of them are feeling the burn. They’re trying to balance all the shifts and turns and keep that organization strategically running forward.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:22:52] It’s the reason that I’m here to connect with the H.R. community. Because I’m providing resources just like H.R. leaders are providing their employees and organizations resources. If I don’t invest the time, like H.R. leaders are not investing time in their people, I might go somewhere else and start writing about Alaska when I should be writing about Belize or whatever resource that I’m providing. I want to make sure that we’re connected together and that I’m able to do my job and what my superpower is.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:23:22] Just like as H.R. leaders, we need to be able to do that. And that’s really that human connection piece that people focus first. That is so important right now in moving forward, because we will continue to be a hybrid workplace, whether our organizational leaders want it or not. The employees are speaking, and they are walking out of jobs, and making decisions, or moving to Portugal and not telling their organization because it is such an important thing. It doesn’t mean that working remotely is less productive, but it allows for some work-life flexibility that they maybe didn’t have in the same way before.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:24:03] Yeah. And are so appreciating that aspect over the last year of that work-life, you know, they don’t want to give that up so they’re really holding on to it.

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:24:10] As someone who has worked remotely for over 12 years, it’s good and bad. I do like going to the office because I can leave my work at work.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:24:22] Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, if anybody wanted to get a hold of you, Jessica, how would they do that? Or how would they access Workology so they can get those great resources that you talked about?

Jessica Miller- Merrell: [00:24:34] workology.com is the best place to go. If you want to connect with me one-on-one, all the places and all the social medias. Facebook is great. Twitter is excellent. Linkedin, you can connect with me there as well. You can also send me an email, you know, if you’re not on the social medias. And that’s jessica@workology.com. I’m here to support H.R. leaders and help empower them to be better at their jobs and also better at just life. I mean, this is all that we have. That’s one opportunity. So, we should make the best of it.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:25:09] Absolutely. I love that. And, Josh, if they wanted to get in touch with you, how would they get in touch with you?

Josh Rock: [00:25:14] Easy. You can find me on LinkedIn, just like many other H.R. pros that are here. Twitter, JRock96, the hockey number follows me everywhere I go. But if you’re looking for a job or seeking advice, you can always check out #JobHuntChat Monday nights 8:00 p.m. Central, we’ll be there. And you can contribute if you’re an H.R. pro and you want to help job seekers. Or if you have other job seekers that want to know more, tell them to jump on Twitter and follow us along.

Jamie Gassmann: [00:25:43] Awesome. Well, thank you both for joining us. It’s been great to chat with you.

Josh Rock: [00:25:46] Awesome. Thanks, Jamie.