In this episode of Association Leadership Radio, Lee Kantor interviews Bennie F. Johnson of the American Marketing Association (AMA). Bennie discusses the AMA’s mission to support marketers in their career development and the organization’s long-standing history and global reach. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding customers and market opportunities in association leadership. The conversation covers the AMA’s proactive stance on AI in marketing and the need for ethical guidelines, and Bennie touches on the broad nature of marketing skills and the challenges young marketers face in the job market, advocating for personal branding and authentic connections.
Bennie F. Johnson is the Chief Executive Officer of the American Marketing Association (AMA). AMA is the largest community-based marketing association in the world, trusted by marketing and sales professionals to help them discover industry trends.
AMA’s community of local chapters spans more than 70 cities and 320 college campuses throughout North America. AMA is home to award-winning content, PCM® professional certification, five premiere academic journals, and industry-leading live and virtual training events.
He most recently served as the Executive Director of AIGA, the largest professional association for design. AIGA grows the power of design as a professional craft, strategic advantage, business driver and catalyst for positive impact. While at AIGA, Bennie hosted the acclaimed Design Adjacent podcast and the design leadership fireside chat series from 2020 to 2022.
Currently, he serves on the Board of Overseers for Columbia University’s School of Professional Studies, as a Trustee of the Smithsonian Archives of American Art and is a former Board Chair of the Smithsonian’s Anacostia Community Museum. Bennie is also a special advisor to the People’s Graphic Design Archive. Additionally, he was recently named to the Board of the Phillips Collection in Washington, DC.
Bennie thrives on the connections between marketing, technology, education and innovation. With experience in strategic and consumer marketing, brand management and innovation management, he is drawn to opportunities that allow him to lead and create new modes for business engagement.
He has broad experience growing brands, businesses and organizations with a special focus on venture launch and brand relaunch business environments.
Bennie graduated from Yale University with a B.A. and from Columbia University’s School of Professional Studies with a M.S., Strategic Communications.
Connect with Bennie on LinkedIn.
This transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix
Lee Kantor: [00:00:37] Well, I am excited to learn what you’re up to. For folks who aren’t familiar, can you share a little bit about American Marketing Association? How you serving folks?
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:00:45] You know, we are, as we like to say, and work towards our mission. We are the essential community for marketing, and that really sums up kind of our world. We represent all of the development points, career, personal, professional that marketers need in order to be successful. In our current world. We are the oldest marketing association we’ve been around for almost 100 years. We have 75 professional chapters across the US, another 330 collegiate chapters, and we have membership covering the entire globe. We are also the publishers of five of the world’s most renowned journals, dealing with marketing, marketing, research, and global marketing. So that that’s where we are at at AMA. It’s an incredibly rich community. Professionals and practitioners, students, entrepreneurs who are all committed to advancing marketing.
Lee Kantor: [00:01:41] So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved with the association? Did you come from marketing? You come from the association world.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:01:48] You know, a little bit of both. I am I am the marketing kid who grew up and has the enormous task and humble opportunity to be CEO of the Marketing Association. So my background in training was entrepreneurship and marketing. As a part of that, I’ve worked in startup brands, relaunches, uh, you name it, and global marketing and strategic roles. And a few years ago, I had someone who became a mentor who actually tapped me to rebuild a global marketing function for an association. And it was the first time that I had really kind of stepped in the association space. And that kind of opened up a new door career wise. So always still with marketing being my first business language, but over the last 15 years, having the chance to lead and grow in contemporary associations. That leads me here.
Lee Kantor: [00:02:35] So how does somebody with a marketing bent, like you have kind of attack a role as leading an association?
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:02:44] You know, I think it starts one of the beautiful things about having a marketing background is you always start with understanding the customer, understanding the marketplace, understanding the business and the opportunity. And I think those are incredibly good ways to start to think about leadership and strategic leadership as an executive, as a chief executive officer.
Lee Kantor: [00:03:06] So when you think about the customer in your case, who is that customer? Is it that young person who is aspiring to be a marketer? Is it kind of that corporate person that is just trying to keep things, you know, moving and, and just kind of withstand all the turmoil that seems to be around it. Uh, it seems like you have different constituents.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:03:27] You really do. And the answer to that is yes, yes and yes. Right. When you think about, uh, the beauty of professions or they’re made up of all those parts and pieces, right. That’s it’s the person who’s just starting the career, the one who is pivoting in the career, and those who are starting executive leadership that make up a full fabric of a profession. And we offer resources and training connections and really kind of, uh, a comprehensive approach to helping marketing professionals grow and excel, both for their own careers, for their teams, for their organizations, for their missions. And so we see a broad mix of backgrounds and, uh, experience levels in our membership community. And it’s really dynamic to see, you know, we have executive marketers, CMOs working in networking with each other in safe spaces where only the executives are kind of connected to each other. We’re a growth area for them. But those same executives may serve as mentors to younger students who are coming up or may serve as subject matter experts. For those who are thinking of making career or functional changes, you know, likewise, some of the great kind of innovation that you see in marketing is happening with younger participants in our profession who are coming in with unique backgrounds and opportunities and are really pushing the profession forward. So I see at times where a member of our community can be both an expert in a novice at the same time, and I think that’s the beauty of a contemporary profession where there’s there are things that you learn that are part of how you excel. And grow. But there’s also these opportunities to shape new technologies, new learnings and new opportunities. And so our goal is to continue and to create a space within AMA in which all those things are possible starting middle, you know, executive level, your career. This is a space for you.
Lee Kantor: [00:05:18] Now, you mentioned new technologies and one of them is AI. And that is something that is affecting or at least uh, could be affecting soon or if it’s not already impacting and disrupting a lot of different industries. How does an association like the AMA kind of lead in this regard? Are we at a stage right now where we’re just still learning and we don’t really know what it is, so it’s a little premature to make recommendations? Or are we at a point where we can kind of understand some of the, um, trade offs that might be kind of coming down the road?
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:05:55] Well, I will say this. It’s never too premature to lead. You know, when you think about the role as a profession in the space, in there as things are being written, developed, imagined, there is always a role for the profession and leaders within the profession to help shape what that reality is. So are there component parts of what is AI in terms of technology and platform that’s ever evolving? Uh, we had a panel discussion recently, and we talked about the fact that the contemporary version, the version of AI that you see today is the dumbest AI you will ever encounter. Right. And that’s that statement is really about how advanced and how dynamic the growth space will be. You know, so as a profession and as professionals, we need to understand how to harness the tool and what are the things that we can do. You know, machine learning, algorithmic learning, AI and generative form have all been a part of marketing for the last few years. If you know, if you look at digital marketing spaces, we were using AI in other ways, um, that will continue to grow and evolve and there’ll be places in there. But there’s also a space as a profession where we have a role in shaping the practice and the policy that goes around it. You know, I’m a fond of saying just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should do it. So where are the ethical guide rails? Where are the practice standards that come in? That’s a role for the profession and the professional association to help, you know, our members in the industry start to shape that. Will it evolve? Yes. Will it be a work in progress? Absolutely. Should we step in and be a part of this work? We must.
Lee Kantor: [00:07:32] But is it also should we let it just kind of. Grow to see what’s what before we hamstring anything, or before we start pruning something, we don’t even know how it’s going to be. I don’t think.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:07:46] It’s a question of pruning, right. But I do think it’s a question of being involved in the growth. So if we were to wait, you know, then I would be happening to us, not us. Harnessing the potential of AI. Right. There’s there’s guidance and rules that are being structured right now that marketing should have a conversation in a place at that table. You know, there’s no value in the profession waiting to not help to shape this. You know, it doesn’t mean it’s going to be perfect. And I’m not saying that we offer kind of false regulations and guardrails in that sense, but we need to be a part of the conversations of understanding how this evolves in our professional space, because we’re being discussed whether we step up in that space or not. You know, you look at AI, their ethical concerns, their structural concerns, their privacy regime concerns. These are all things that are actively happening in the marketing space. And so as a profession, can we sit back and wait? Yes. And we’ll wait ourselves out of a leading space.
Lee Kantor: [00:08:47] But sometimes when large institutions get involved early on in the technology, um. They might not be open to having some sorts of this disruption that might impact them as a whole, that sometimes they’re kind of territorial about, um, kind of limiting the opportunity when it comes to allowing something like this to grow a little bit before making moves to constrain it.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:09:18] Yeah. This I, you know, my conversation or my approach to this isn’t about a constraint, but it is about the fact that we as a profession need to be involved. Right? And I’m not pre-scripting any one way in which we’re involved. But I am saying that we should be there’s, you know, we’ve seen from past technological innovations, there is not value in opting out right in the space in there and the transformative moment in there, you know, because these are when I listen to our community and our members and the scholars. These are questions that they’re dealing with every day. It is very real. It’s not I it’s happening in the future. This is happening now. Right.
Lee Kantor: [00:09:55] And I know, like, I, I think that it’s one of those things like I mean, I’m sure you’re old enough and I’m old enough to remember when we first when calculators came into the scene, there was a hubbub about should we allow kids to have calculators? Um, because they’re never going to learn math if there’s calculators. And then the same was with the the internet, you know, like Wikipedia can’t replace encyclopedias, which obviously it has. So sometimes the, the status quo, um, is wants to pump the brakes and not let things just kind of go and then prune. They’d rather start making kind of changes, uh, before we even know what it’s going to be.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:10:44] Right. Well, that is the nature and definition of the status quo. Right? So the status quo defends what has existed, what we have enough to see in terms of looking at history and looking at more recent history, is that disruption is real, and it shows up in unexpected creative ways in which we have a community. We’ve talked about this as well that sometimes definitions getting your own way right, definitions seek to control and curate, and sometimes before understanding the creative space. We have a lot of new people coming into marketing who never would classically consider themselves marketers, but the techniques and tools that they’re using and the the function that they are is all about marketing. You know, our language has to expand because there are things that our profession is learning from new entrants, and also things that the established profession can teach in order to continue the profession to grow in a healthy way. So yeah, we’re gonna the fallacy is that anybody in any one of us can control these innovations. That’s not what we’re discussing, right? It’s not about the controlling of innovation, but it is positioning us to understand and adapt, to change right positioning, to understand and say, hey, there should be a voice that we raise as a marketing profession about what things are valuable in terms of protecting, you know, our access to customers and consumers and our business organizations. We are keepers of the brand and customers, and all of those success measures that can be adversely impacted by this. So we should have a role in shaping the way that our organizations, our tools and our strategies show up.
Lee Kantor: [00:12:21] Yeah, I mean, you definitely have to be part of the conversation. That goes without saying. I mean, because, um, you know, there’s a saying about branding, your branding, whether you’re being proactive about it or not, you know, you’re you’re leaving an impression, uh, in the consumer’s mind, whether you’re investing a minute of thought into it or not.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:12:41] It really is. And to think that, you know, new technological advances that are happening today or planned for tomorrow or next week won’t have a critical impact on what you’re doing. And your audience is really kind of a naive space. And so what we’re trying to encourage as a profession is facing there is how do we step in fully into these dynamic spaces, you know, because that’s what our members are asking. That’s what they’re looking at. You know, some of the things we’ve talked about in AI are changing the very tools that marketing marketers use, but they’re also policy changes that are happening that are then on top of that, changing the tools. So where do we show up as marketers who have these devices to use to delivering against our goals for our organizations and our missions?
Lee Kantor: [00:13:26] Now, are you finding that the marketing as a as a career has, um, is just kind of growing and growing because, like you said, it’s now permeating almost every aspect of business. You know it even if you’re an engineer, you’ve got to be a marketer, too, nowadays.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:13:47] You really do? I mean, you see, marketing’s expanding. Kind of like our solar system, right? It continues to grow and expand on itself. The beauty of it and what I get excited about marketing is the profession is very different than it was 25 years ago when I started. Right. And it’s going to be very different 25 years from now. There are constant new ways and approaches and new entrants. You know, there are things that may be established, principles that we kind of remix and, and look at again today because as our consumer audience changes and its behaviors and needs changes, so does marketing. As our toolsets change, so does marketing as the future of business and work change. Guess what? Marketing changes as well. And so there are students who we have coming into profession. Some are coming in with PhDs in specialized market research fields, and they have a phenomenal path ahead of them. We have some who are coming out of college who didn’t study marketing, but find that this is a space that makes sense and and it’s an incredibly robust space. We also have students coming in from two year programs, or influencers or creators who have no formal education, but have something to say about how companies and organizations shape their marketing practice. I mean, we’re a really dynamic profession in which you can enter in all these points. You know, we don’t have licensure, but our organization offers certification and training for just in time resources and more, you know, long tail critical skill sets as well. And we have members, as I mentioned, who range from PhDs and CMOs to new creators who are using some of the great platforms and doing more socially driven connection points to, you know, traditional strategic marketing managers who are coming in with MBAs or masters in marketing management. All of them have a place in a contribution to our profession.
Lee Kantor: [00:15:36] Now, are you seeing a blurring of the lines of all kind of the industries within the industry, like marketing is kind of now a catch all for what used to be advertising or PR or media. Now there’s kind of a blurring of the lines, like, where does one of those end and another one begin? Or is everything marketing now?
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:15:55] I think it it always was right. I think sometimes the definitions get in our own way, right. When you look at the purview, especially if you look at organizations as you ladder up, each of these items end up influencing and tying in. So if you have a really strong marketing leader, they’re going to understand branding. They’re also going to understand marketing analytics. They’re going to understand content marketing and digital. They’re going to get paid media and advertising but also own created media. You know, now you can argue that any of those fault that I mentioned fall into somebody else’s budget line or category. But when you step back, these are all skills that successful marketers need to understand, hone and be able to deliver against. You know, our business and organizations are requiring, you know, that the marketing leader be in an expert or have a facility with technology, understand data, understand good business management practices, while also honing creativity of brand and social engagement. You know, the marketing role requires all of those things in service to delivering against the brand and the company and organization mission.
Lee Kantor: [00:17:02] Now, um, what is kind of the the job market look like nowadays for a young marketer? I’ve been hearing local. I’m in Atlanta and I’ve been hearing some, uh, I don’t want to say horror stories, but some frustrations by, uh, candidates where they’re being ghosted by some companies, they apply. They it feels like they’re not getting any, you know, they’re having a difficult time getting their foot in the door. Sometimes they get asked to do, um, you know, projects without getting paid as a way to kind of, um, you know, see if they’re a worthy candidate and then they their fear or some people say this has happened where they’re taking their materials and then using them and not hiring them. Uh, how would you, if you were a young person, navigate the world if you were trying to get in, uh, get a job in marketing?
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:17:53] Yeah. Well, I will say that some of the things you’re describing are some of the horrors of contemporary job market. So they’re not unique to marketing or that space in there. Sadly, you’re seeing that, as, you know, companies and organizations pursue job markets. And this is where we talk about what are your kind of ethical responsibilities and spaces in there and understanding how you build out an organization, you know, so those are some bad practices that we see across the board. Um, what you’re describing in terms of the work in my last organization, we took some very harsh stances on that. That’s the category of spec work in which you would do things on spec to kind of prove in space in there. And it’s not a really it’s not a great practice. And it leads to exactly what you just described, a feeling of vulnerability or exploitation. If you’re in the market space in there, you know, if I if I’m advice to a young person working in marketing space in there is to really work on strengthening your personal brand. Work on strengthening your connection points that allow you to distinguish yourself in authentic ways from others who are in the marketplace. We see a lot of success in terms of working through networks and organizations like your professional association, the AMA, both at a local, regional and national level is a great way to continue that network. We just had our major collegiate event, and a big part of it was an open house for employers looking to hire, train and grow marketing professionals. And so as a professional association, we can provide that kind of entry point, um, to help people move along in that, you know, it’s you want to be cautious before you put out your work in the marketplace in there because you want to, you know, protect yourself against that risk. But I think going into established organizations, as you said before, um, really distinguishing your value and experience and building on your ongoing network are important things that serve you well, whether it’s your first job or your 10th.
Lee Kantor: [00:19:48] Yeah, I agree 100%. That’s my advice to any young person is join your associate, the local association, for whatever industry or niche that you’re working in, and lean in. And don’t just pay money and join and think you’re done, but then volunteer, take leadership positions, demonstrate so so the people that can hire you will see with their own eyes what you can and can’t do. And that’s your best chance of standing out and getting a job. I mean, by throwing your name in the hat in one of these kind of algorithm driven, you know, uh, search engines, you know, good luck. That, to me, is a lottery ticket.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:20:24] Yeah. But to your point, it’s a great way to think about your engagement with a professional association. It’s not just membership sign and done. It is being actively involved in that. I know in this organization, in the past, organization, volunteer leadership is one of the things that people use to distinguish themselves for advancement, promotion and distinction at their 9 to 5, if you will. Right? Because often you may not get an opportunity to lead a robust project that has impact at work, but you get a chance to be a part of a robust project in your professional association, and that allows you to work with other peers. It allows you to be seen and noticed and how often if you are. I have this now and the Professional Association of Marketing. So people in my network reach out to me and say, hey, we need to hire marketers, right? And that gives you an opportunity both locally, regionally and nationally to connect with resources where people are going. First. If I want to hire a quality marketer, um, it’s a great assumption to assume they’re connected with the high quality Marketing Association.
Lee Kantor: [00:21:23] Now what do you need more of? How can we help you?
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:21:27] Well, we always need more championing the fact that being a part of an association matters, that being able to grow both personally and professionally, but also to network and help others grow, is essential to associations, right? It’s essential to how we push the profession forward. It’s an incredibly dynamic time period to be in marketing, and it’s a fun space to be. We want to spread that word for those who are considering marketing or are marketing adjacent, right? Because marketing, as you said before, it’s such a part of success. Any successful organization, campaign for profit nonprofit has marketing at its heart.
Lee Kantor: [00:22:06] It should. Because if people don’t know who you are, that’s not going to help. And you better be delivering value to your constituents or you’re not going to grow. I mean, so.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:22:17] And it’s got to be an ongoing conversation and exchange, right? It can’t be. Rest on who we’ve been and who we were, but it has to be that ongoing, what we represent and what value we show up in your professional personal lives as we think about brands for all spaces, I mean, we’re marketing missions, we’re marketing ideas, we’re marketing services and products, but it all comes back to that relationship.
Lee Kantor: [00:22:42] And and you’ve been around for 100 years, and that doesn’t happen. Uh, by accident or mistake, I mean, to be around for 100 years shows that you’re providing value and you’re you’re growing an organization that’s doing important work.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:22:56] Yeah, it does, but it also gives us a challenge that in order to be around for the next ten years or 20 or 30 years, we still have to be intentional of understanding how our profession grows and evolves and being able to provide support as we navigate that as well.
Lee Kantor: [00:23:11] Good stuff. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today, Bennie. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:23:17] Well, thank you for having me. And I thank everyone for listening. And once again, uh, Bennie Johnson, CEO of the American Marketing Association and the.
Lee Kantor: [00:23:25] Website, if somebody wants to connect with you or learn more about the association.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:23:29] We are AMA. Org and you can follow us and connect with us on LinkedIn as the heart of our professional space. And if I may give a plug, you can also listen to my new podcast, which is marketing. And and we’re talking to unexpected marketing leaders about the impact and future of the profession.
Lee Kantor: [00:23:48] Good stuff. And is that started or that’s coming?
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:23:51] It is started. It is. We are well into season three recording and season one just dropped.
Lee Kantor: [00:23:58] Well congratulations on that. And um, and they can find that I’m sure on any podcast platform.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:24:04] Any place you get your podcasts you can find it. Uh, AMA marketing and with Bennie Johnson.
Lee Kantor: [00:24:10] All right, Bennie, thank you.
Bennie F. Johnson: [00:24:13] Thank you so much.
Lee Kantor: [00:24:13] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Association Leadership Radio.
