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Navigating Startup Chaos: Lessons from Atlanta Tech Village’s Community Builder

April 14, 2026 by angishields

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Greater Perimeter Business Radio
Navigating Startup Chaos: Lessons from Atlanta Tech Village’s Community Builder
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In this episode of Greater Perimeter Business Radio, host Adam Marx sits down with Aly Merritt of Atlanta Tech Village (ATV) to explore startup culture, community building, and networking in Atlanta. Aly shares her unconventional journey from print journalism to the startup ecosystem, discussing ATV’s mentor program, the realities of startup life, and the mental health challenges founders face. Together, they highlight Atlanta’s collaborative spirit, the importance of genuine relationship-building over transactional networking, and why showing up consistently is the ultimate key to success in any entrepreneurial community.

Aly-MerrittAly Merritt is the President of Atlanta Tech Village and a community builder in South Downtown ATL. She has been a pivotal figure in Atlanta’s tech ecosystem for more than a decade. Her startup journey includes Head of Community at SalesLoft, where she also contributed to product management and customer experience, and served as Chief of Staff.

With a background in journalism and a passion for innovation, bolstered by an MBA from Georgia State University, Aly has dedicated her career to advancing local startups and elevating Atlanta’s national profile. She previously organized and emceed ATL Startup Village, fostering connections between entrepreneurs and investors.

As a co-founder of ATL Unlocked, she continues to drive collaboration between startup hubs across the city. With the advent of the South Downtown ATL project, she is driving new interpretations of innovation and helping revitalize Atlanta’s historic business district. Atlanta-Tech-Village-logo

Aly (sporadically) shares her insights on tech and the startup community through her blog, AlyintheATL.com. Her multifaceted experience, from copy editing to community strategy, uniquely positions her to support and inspire entrepreneurs in America’s fourth-largest tech hub.

Connect with Aly on LinkedIn and X.

Episode Highlights

  • Aly’s role at Atlanta Tech Village and community building in South Downtown Atlanta
  • Overview of the startup ecosystem and its evolution
  • Importance of community and network building for startups
  • Challenges and realities of startup life
  • Value of mentorship and advising in the startup environment
  • Differences between corporate and startup work cultures
  • Mental health considerations in the startup community
  • The significance of building genuine relationships and showing up in the ecosystem
  • The role of networking in startup success and misconceptions around it
  • The collaborative nature of the Atlanta tech and startup community compared to other cities

About Your Host

AdamMarxHeadshotMay24Adam Marx is a networking & leadership consultant, speaker, startup advisor, journalist & the founder of The Zero to One Networker.

Formerly the founder & CEO of music-tech startup Glipple, Inc., and as a writer appearing in Crunchbase News, Startup Grind, Mattermark, & others, Adam draws on more than a decade of experiences in the music & startup tech industries to teach others how to cultivate powerful relationships using strategies of patience, consistency, authenticity, & value creation.

As a networking consultant and speaker, Adam has worked with numerous organizations, including Georgia State University, TechStars Atlanta, the Atlanta Tech Village, ATDC (through Georgia Tech), & Startup Showdown, where he’s advised & mentored founders on how to develop magnetic dialogues & long-term relationships.

Adam’s talks include those given at Georgia Tech and Georgia State University, with a keynote at Emory University’s The Hatchery and as a featured speaker for Atlanta Tech Week 2024.MinimalFontBusinessLogo4

In addition to advising & consulting, Adam sits on the steering committee for InnovATL, cohosts LinkedIn Local ATL, emceed the 2022 Vermont SHRM State Conference, and was a workshop speaker at South by Southwest (SXSW) 2025.

He is currently working on his forthcoming book.

Connect with Adam on LinkedIn and Instagram and follow Zero to One Networker on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Greater Perimeter. It’s time for Greater Perimeter Business Radio. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Today’s episode of Greater Perimeter Business Radio is brought to you by 0 to 1 networker, helping founders, funders, and operators build the strategic relationships and access that move businesses forward. For more information, go to 0 to 1. Networker. Now here’s your host, Adam Marx.

Adam Marx: Thanks so much, Lee. I am so excited for today’s guest. Aly. How long have we known each other?

Aly Merritt: Oh, has it been a decade? More than a decade.

Adam Marx: Oh my God, no. Maybe

Aly Merritt: That just aged me. Never mind. It’s been a year.

Adam Marx: It’s been a year. Okay, so before we get into how old I apparently am, um, who you are, what you do, where you work.

Aly Merritt: Yeah. Ali Merritt, Atlanta Tech Village and also building community in south downtown Atlanta. What I do varies day to day. Sometimes I am acting almost like a kindergarten teacher with a bunch of startup entrepreneurs. Um, sometimes I’m coaching them through a fundraise. Sometimes we’re just there to be a philosophical sounding block on what it is that they’re doing or not doing. And then in South Downtown, we are revitAlyzing and reimagining the original business district in the heart of Atlanta.

Adam Marx: Wow. There’s there’s so much in there. So let’s start first with Atlanta Tech Village, the flagship location in Buckhead. Then we’ll move to South downtown. And through that, we’ll kind of talk about the importance of community and network building because that is so core to what ATV does. So how’d you how’d you first come to ATV? I think I know the background story, but I don’t know if everyone knows the background story.

Aly Merritt: I don’t know that it’s that interesting, but I think that I’m a great example of why startups are attractive to people, because you don’t have to have a background in something to be able to do it. A lot of people like myself just fell into it.

Adam Marx: Me too.

Aly Merritt: Exactly. It’s it isn’t something that you feel like you have to do, like 20 years worth of work in order to get to. Although apparently now you can get an entire degree in entrepreneurship, which baffles me a little bit.

Adam Marx: Well, that was I told you I was on a panel earlier this earlier this week at this Innovate Georgia, which was held at Kennesaw State. And there were people there from, you know, Georgia Tech and Morehouse and, and, um, Mercer. And it’s amazing to me to see how entrepreneurship has grown beyond like when I was in school, it was like a club that had no funding. It was.

Aly Merritt: People watching, like now.

Adam Marx: People like watching Shark Tank and like, hey, man, this, this kind of stuff is pretty cool. And now it’s like, oh, there’s some real like funding and direction there, which is great.

Aly Merritt: It’s a legit profession now, which is entertaining, but it’s of course very sexy on the surface, right? Because you’re seeing like the six year overnight success, quote unquote, where people have been shilling in a basement and, you know, working so hard on something that very suddenly you hit traction. I think that’s the attractive part of a startup is that when it works, it can very suddenly and very quickly work. And so people get the impression that it’s an overnight success. But usually it’s a lot of work behind the scenes for a very long time. So, um, my background, I think I’m on like my third or fourth career, to be perfectly honest. I started as a journAlyst in the print journAlysm world, so I was a copy editor and a page designer.

Adam Marx: Quick, quick aside for anyone listening, what’s print journAlysm?

Aly Merritt: It’s not really a thing anymore, right? Uh, yes, I worked in newspapers, and you have to have somebody to do a couple of things. After the writers write the article, you have to proof it. You have to copy, edit it, and then you have to fit it into the page, which with all of the computer programs now, it just automatically does stuff for you. If you were me. Because again, I’m old, I spent a lot of time being like, this story is two inches too long and we need to cut two paragraphs out of it. And then you have to figure out which part you cut so that the writer doesn’t hate you, because it was their hard crafted, you know, words of wisdom. And so that was challenging. Uh, but it was really fun. And nobody does newspaper journAlysm for the money, right? You’re working nights, weekends, you get paid less than teachers, you’re working holidays. Um, everything’s on deadline. So it’s always incredibly urgent all the time and sounds healthy. I didn’t say it was like a mental health and wellness journey, Adam, but you felt like you were doing something that was important to the community, for the community that you were helping find out what was going on and share it with people and share the news about the world. And so everybody in journAlysm has this like, kind of altruistic aspect to it. And you’re doing something for the love of the thing that you’re doing. Um, unfortunately, uh, the bottom fell out of the newspaper world when right when I moved to Atlanta with my husband and I knew people with Pulitzer Prizes who couldn’t get jobs and I didn’t have one of those. So I definitely wasn’t going to get a job. Um, so I had to kind of reinvent myself, which was humbling and a little bit soul sucking at the same time. Uh, and I did a couple of different things, including working for a company that did the, the professional way to say it is linen management for the healthcare industry, which is really laundry for hospitals.

Adam Marx: Um, still important.

Aly Merritt: It is important. But I was in marketing. You can’t make that sexy.

Adam Marx: That’s a that’s but that’s why we see all these like amazingly cool commercials for like progressive. You’re going into higher education for And what you’re looking to get out of the experience, that is a factor to consider.

Aly Merritt: You know, I think that’s an interesting point. I’m going to diverge slightly. Not that we were going to be really direct in our conversation anyway, but, um, I’m going to diverge slightly because I think that’s an important aspect. So at Atlanta Tech Village, one of our programs is our mentor and advisor program. It is one of the biggest value adds, we’ve been told by our villagers. And we have about 60 advisors on staff who are just giving back for free. This is their time. We swap them for a community membership because we want them to be members of our community and actually work out of the space. And for a very long time, that program was split into mentors and advisors, and that was two different things. The advisors were subject matter experts, and the mentors were meant to sort of pair up and walk a longer path with our startups. Um, what ended up happening is we had a lot of mentors who also were subject matter experts, and they would get used both ways. But the theory behind it was that if you were going to be a mentor, you had to be a former founder, not just an early team member. Even though you carry as an early team member, I can tell you that you bring a lot of wisdom to the to the space. But if you are a former founder, you understand because you have done that job, you have walked that path. And I think this goes back to having the adjunct professors, right? They know what they’re talking about because they do this job. So when you are a founder who is talking to a mentor and you’re like, I don’t know if I’m going to make payroll next week and you have somebody who can say, oh, congratulations, welcome to the club. It’s a rite of passage. It will be okay because they have been there and they have done that and they have not made payroll. That is very different than having somebody who’s never had that experience be able to talk you through it.

Adam Marx: It’s it’s interesting because so, so when I did advising at, at Tech Village, um, I did notice there was that, that kind of, um, I would say divergence, but there were those two kind of groups and it is different. Um, when one lives through certain things. And so when I was doing, advising around like building networks and scAlyng networks way before, I think the landscape has changed actually quite a bit since, since I was at ATV because at the time, and I think that, you know, this, like you were steering a lot of people my way going, hey, you should have this conversation.

Aly Merritt: And that’s kind of my job. Adam. I share a lot of people, people’s directions, right?

Adam Marx: But it was, I think at a time when it was much, much more difficult for people to recognize the differentiation between sales and marketing and network building. And I think that there’s now a better understanding of how all those things are different. They’re all equally important. It doesn’t mean that sales and marketing are not important, but what I’ve noticed is that there’s more of a, more of a, um, an acknowledgment that founders are looking for people who’ve Experience these particular things in a way that is more than theory or reading, reading a number of books or, you know, it’s when you’re part of like 2 or 3 rocketship startups, like you’re, you’re catching the tailwind in a lot of them. And there’s something to be said for being around people who are like, yeah, yeah, I know what it’s like when like all the junk is coming down and like, it’s like, we just need to like, go to the bar and have a beer and start fresh in the morning.

Aly Merritt: And to tell you that there is life on the other side of it, right? You need somebody who has been through the fire and is like, it’s gonna be okay.

Adam Marx: And I also think it’s funny you phrased it that way because, you know, when I moved out of the music industry, um, for a number of reasons, I wrote an article around the concept of there being life after failure. And it was, it was really written in two parts. It was the first part I remember writing like in the dark by myself three in the morning. Just that that really heavy, intense feeling of like, what is going on? What am I doing? And then that second part of it, and if someone reads this article, it’s still somewhere, I’m sure the second part internet lives. I know I’m gonna have to remember to tell, for better or worse. Yeah, really. The second part, I remember sitting in a Starbucks kind of in, uh, midtown somewhere and just like having a large coffee and like the, the vibe is so different. It’s like, okay, what’s next? And I think that part of what we need to do a better job at in the startup space and we’ve been getting better at it is we talk about fail fast and like failure is great and you learn a lot and like, that’s fine. But failure and that heaviness, it also hurts. Sure. And so we shouldn’t gloss over like what it feels like in the moment. It doesn’t make you less of a founder to feel like, oh man, like I can’t just brush it off today. I need like a few days to recover from it. And that’s part of being a founder is acknowledging that emotion and sitting with it for a minute and then finding a way through it in a way that is actually good for one’s mental health, as opposed to pretending like I’m fine. Everything’s great. It was easy. Next thing.

Aly Merritt: Yeah, I for for also better or for worse, I think the the upcoming generations have a much more comfortable relationship with mental health and wellness, which is great in a lot of ways. Yes. Um, I think it’s interesting because I have several friends who are in charge of large teams of the next generation or two down, uh, and not that anybody’s ever actually said this exact phrase to them, but one of them said that they’ve gotten very close to hearing, um, Mercury is in retrograde and the vibes are off. So I can’t come in today. And she’s like, all right, look, I’m here for mental health and wellness, but some days you just have to get up and do it.

Adam Marx: If people could see my face right now, it’s like, look.

Aly Merritt: You could be in a balance. We need to get to.

Adam Marx: There is a well, because the, the, the flip side of it is, I think that when people come into a startup and part of what you were talking about vis a vis being a founder is when someone comes into a startup, whether you’re employee number three or employee number 300, there is already a kind of structure in place. And people who have not had to put that structure together can sometimes forget that someone’s got to be bolting that stuff into place. And it takes time and, and trial and error to figure out, yeah, what does that look like? The infrastructure of a company doesn’t just, you know, pop out of the ground like a daisy. There’s just a lot of, a lot of work that goes into.

Aly Merritt: Them are also bolting that structure together as the plane is flying, like they are building the plane as they are flying.

Adam Marx: On the way down.

Aly Merritt: Yes, on the way down to the ground.

Adam Marx: Yeah. Trying to avoid that, that that bottom of the canyon. Yeah. And, and so like, I think, uh, employees who come in earlier see a lot of that and help with a lot of that and are instrumental to a lot of that, uh, uh, employees are coming a little bit later, may have a harder time seeing it unless they are already aware of like, that’s what’s gone on. So like when someone goes and works at, you know, Home Depot, which is a massive company, someone had to put that structure in place to create those workflows. And it takes time.

Aly Merritt: I think that’s actually a great point. And so I end up meeting with a lot of people who are exiting a corporation. They’ve had 15, 20 years of experience at a corporate company and they want to do a startup because again, on the surface, startups sound really sexy. And so I have to have discussions with them about like, what’s your risk tolerance? Because most startups don’t make it for a variety of reasons that usually have nothing to do with the founding team. There’s a lot of luck involved. Product market fit has a lot to do with timing that you may or may not be in control of, i.e. Zoom and a pandemic, right? You know, they were doing well, but they weren’t zoomed until a pandemic, but nobody can know that that was going to happen. So I talked to a lot of people in corporates and their, their impression of how fast a startup actually moves and how loose the guardrails are and the reAlyty of that are typically very far apart. And a lot of people who have been in corporate structure for a long time struggle with that. They think that they want to be bowling in a bowling alley without the gutter guards, but they actually really liked the gutter guards. They just didn’t know it until they were in a position where they couldn’t handle it. It takes a special kind of like slightly crazy and probably neuro spicy person to be in a startup, frankly. And you know, as all of us are self-diagnosing ourselves from Instagram and TikTok videos at this point.

Adam Marx: Oh, I mean, you do, you do have to be masochistic on some level to want to do this.

Aly Merritt: Yeah. You’re gonna go like, bash your head against the wall a whole bunch of times and be like, okay, that sucked, but I’m gonna keep doing it.

Adam Marx: But, but and like for, you know, the thing is for people who don’t want to do it or feel that it isn’t the right fit for them, like that’s also okay, because there are a lot of us who would feel maybe less comfortable in a more corporate environment. I think people should win where they feel most comfortable. It doesn’t make someone less of a great business person because they like, quote, couldn’t hack it. Like, I just don’t buy into that.

Aly Merritt: No, it takes all kinds.

Adam Marx: It takes all kinds. And, and, you know, I think it’s important because when I was coming into, it’s important to acknowledge that because when I was coming into tech into startups, I mean, this was 2015, 16, 14, 15, 16. It was at a time when like, if you didn’t write code and you didn’t go to San Francisco and move to San Francisco, like you didn’t care enough, you weren’t, you weren’t being serious about your startup. And now it’s gotten a lot better where people are, are in all different cities, um, from like Atlanta to Omaha to the Bay area and like Texas, obviously. And, and so I think that’s really great. But I think that it’s an indication that we need to recognize like great startups are built. Yes. With tech talent, with sales talent, also with graphic design talent, also with copy editing talent, network building talent, like it takes all kinds to create like a very dynamic company that’s going to end up being successful.

Aly Merritt: Sure, you can’t just have the technical talent because half the time the technical talent can’t sell it. And you can’t just have the sales talent because then they’re selling vaporware that can’t be built. And then once you do get past that initial foray, you’ve got to have customer success and technical support to be able to actually get a customer to adopt it, to implement it, to train on it, to be able to use best practices and get the value out of it. Right? Like a lot of customer implementations fail, not because the product isn’t good and the customer doesn’t fit with it, but because there, there wasn’t enough time spent on that Alygnment piece.

Adam Marx: I want to I want to key in on that time and Alygnment because. Looking at network building and how it’s changed in the last 4 or 5, six years since since we’ve known each other. The time component is something that I think a lot of people misunderstand, particularly in the, in the arena of startups where everything is that flywheel.

Aly Merritt: Everything’s fast.

Adam Marx: Everything is fast. And you’re trying to get that, that, that wheel as tight as possible to get the product out there, collect feedback, iterate quickly, which is great for a product that you can effectively control. But building networks is glacially slow sometimes.

Aly Merritt: And it’s not fast.

Adam Marx: It’s not fast. And this is it’s like, it’s a war of attrition between you and your impatience and the people who build Staggering networks are the people who outlast their own impatience. They’re the people who are the actually the the people closing the rooms, not the people who are first to the party, but the people who hang around. And that’s something I think a lot of founders don’t really want to hear, or it’s hard for them to kind of accept that like, this is going to take time. I can’t just give you a list of a thousand people that you can throw into an AI flow and see like, who’s going to be your next investor? Like you need to put in the time to cultivate that dialog.

Aly Merritt: I mean, you probably could, but I don’t think the answer would be correct.

Adam Marx: So you could, I would not recommend it.

Aly Merritt: I mean, at the rate we’re going, I think you could ask AI anything, but, uh, I think that that’s an excellent point. Right. I was at an event last night. I was one of the last people to leave. Um, and some of the best conversations tend to happen at that point in the night, right? You, a lot of the people who are there to put in the face time, um, have now been able to move into a space where they’re a little more relaxed and they can go a little deeper. Um, you know, I was talking to somebody and we discovered we had people in common from ten years ago, right? And that’s always really fun. And we were able to kind of dig into, where were you when this, what happened when this changed all the, the different fun pieces that you have to start talking about in order to build a rapport with person. Um, one of, I think both of our skill sets is finding common ground with people relatively rapidly. And that’s a core skill to being a good networker now. I want to also make the note that when you say networking and I say networking, there’s a whole group of people who are networking and they make sad faces. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. Um, I am clearly not an introvert. And so I will talk to anybody in a room. I’m the person in the grocery store that if somebody is like, I don’t know what kind of flower I should pick. If I’m standing on the aisle, I apparently look approachable and they will talk to me about it. But I know a lot of people here are either extroverted introvert, so they present as an extrovert, but they have to go recharge, or people who are just straight up introverts and they know they need to go to the networking event, but they really hate the word networking and the entire concept of networking, right? Because they’re like, oh, I have to go and hand out some business cards.

Adam Marx: I don’t even think networking is the best term for it. I think it’s the best term that we have right now.

Aly Merritt: It’s just you’re just building community and connection.

Adam Marx: Just have one good conversation. You don’t have to get rid of your business cards. I but I think it’s, I think it’s really critical that founders and startups who are maybe further along in the pipeline raising series B, series C, recognize that. Here’s how the dynamic goes. If you you can have the most charismatic CEO or COO on the face of the planet who are in the early days that those people can do like all the networking, all the outreach.

Aly Merritt: Sure. They’re the face of everything.

Adam Marx: The face of everything. But as you grow series B, series C, now your company’s bigger. Now you have. They have more on their plate, everyone’s got more on their plate.

Aly Merritt: But every single person at your company now has to be that person.

Adam Marx: Precisely because that that that charismatic person, their time to do all those 1 to 1 conversations goes down because they’re running the company and trying to make sure everyone gets paid and the next product is great. And so startups need to understand that integrating network building skills into their entire organization, including their tech team, yes, their sales team, but also their, the tech side of the organization is a secret weapon because it means that the more conversations that all those people can have, whether it’s ten people or a thousand people, the more conversations they can have, the more yes leads they can bring you for for customers. That’s part of it. But it’s also the more doors they can open to potential funding sources, potential PR sources, partnership resources, like the list goes on, high end talent. Like that’s how you attract great talent.

Aly Merritt: That’s how you attract, grow and retain great talent because they’re building their own internal advocacy for your company at that point.

Adam Marx: And what I think startups sometimes mistake is everyone early on, everyone wants introductions. The introduction factory, that’s almost the easiest part. It’s startups who master the maintenance and the scAlyng of networks as their companies grow. Those are the startups that you see in the rooms and consistently at events and consistently at events, not even necessarily with other startups and other founders, but in the rooms, with the journAlysts, in the rooms, with the funding sources. The institutional bankers, like those are the people who get in those rooms and know how to stay in those rooms.

Aly Merritt: But you also don’t know who in that room. They might not be the right person. They may know the right person, right? They may know your next customer. Your next employee. Your next investor. And so you have to approach every single room as it’s, it’s endless possibility, right? And that’s one of the things that I try to tell people when they’re trying to talk about, what do they need to bring to a networking room is you ask how you can help, right? How do you you ask somebody else how you can help. You don’t go in with, I have an itinerary. I have things that I need to get out of this. It’s how can I help you? Because you open up a conversation, then that creates infinite possibility around where to take that conversation. Um, to go super far back here in this conversation to where you asked me how I ended up where I am now.

Adam Marx: Yeah, let’s go back there.

Aly Merritt: Um, this is actually extremely relevant. So I got my MBA at this company and I reAlyzed that what I was missing was the sense of camaraderie and everybody working toward a common goal, not for the money, not for the fame, but because they believed in the thing that they were doing, and newspapers had sort of collapsed at that point, and that wasn’t a possibility anymore. And so I reAlyzed that the another place that you could find that kind of idea were startups. Everybody’s coalescing behind a common goal that they think is really important. And they’re doing it because they believe in it. And so I, Atlanta Tech Village at the time was fairly new. This was 2014. Um, David Cummings bought the building that Atlanta tech village Buckhead is in in the end of 2012, started doing um, with, with entrepreneurs in the building, started renovating it floor by floor in 2013. So in early 2014, I basically showed up at events at ATV until somebody hired me.

Adam Marx: That’s people ask me, people ask me like what I do? It’s like, man, I show up and talk. You show up till people pay me to go away. Like that’s what I do.

Aly Merritt: That is hands down, the number one thing that I try to tell people is just show up.

Adam Marx: I don’t think that people reAlyze how much it makes a difference, and it’s show up when it’s not your thing. Yes, your demo day. Your pitch off like, yeah, show up for those and congratulate the other demo day presenters and whatever. Um, but just consistently show up at events and I always quAlyfy this with, show up with, you know, something that fits within your budget, whatever it is, you know, your wallet is a factor. Your mental health is a factor, your time, your family, these are all factors. So I’m, I’m not advocating for people to run themselves into the ground because at this point, I do get comments like, oh wow, you’re everywhere. You’re just everywhere. And it’s like, no, no, I’m not everywhere.

Aly Merritt: I think you’re thoughtful about where you are, right?

Adam Marx: Because to to try and be ubiquitous is not healthy and not reAlystic.

Aly Merritt: And frankly, it dilutes your personal brand.

Adam Marx: It does, but to create the perception of ubiquity is a lot easier and a lot more, a lot easier to maintain over time. It’s something that startups and startup founders could conceivably do, even as they’re very early in their journey and their funds may be, you know, quite limited.

Aly Merritt: I think one of the benefits of Atlanta as an ecosystem is we have a ton of free events, most of which come with food. By the way, um, we have free events that anybody can attend. We are working hard to ensure that all of the events are on the Startup Atlanta shared community calendar. So you can go, you’re new to Atlanta. You can go, you can figure out where you need to be. All of those events tend to have some version of a Venn diagram of overlap into another event or another space in town, and to your point, showing up to support other spaces and other hubs. You know, I got a sitter and drove super far north of town For me, as somebody who lives in Decatur, all the way up to Alpharetta for carrying cash and formerly tech Alpharetta, now North Atlanta Tech for their grand opening of their new space. Yeah, it was it was like a Thursday. It’s like 4:00. I think I narrowly made it in right before the ribbon cutting. Um, because it was a whole I had to go home, get the kid, hand them off to a sitter and get up there. But it was important to me to be there for her. And then when we had Atlanta Tech Village Sylvan in South Downtown open at 8 a.m. on one of the coldest days. I was there too. I was freezing, it was so cold. It was literally 20 degrees. Like I’m not. That’s not even hyperbole. It was actually 20 degrees. Um, Karen drove down at 5 a.m. to make sure that she was there for my grand opening because I had been there for hers. And that is an incredible feeling to know that people care about you and what you’re doing to that extent, but it also creates this flywheel effect where then when there’s something important to you, they show up for you. You show up for them, and then suddenly a rising tide raises all ships.

Adam Marx: And I think it’s also indicative of, you know, there’s this, there’s this concept I have called the 300 club, um, which is just an idea that occurred to me a few years ago. And I’ve posted about it a number of times. And the concept came to me as like, I’ve been in a number of different communities throughout my career. I was in the music world, I was in the tech journAlysm world. Now I’m in the tech space and, you know, on the LinkedIn space and Twitter before that became a dumpster fire. Um, and it just seemed to me in any given real community that there tend to be 3 to 400 voices, give or take, who are just driving the conversation that day, that week. And they rotate, you know, people kind of pull out, they have other things. Other people come up and introduce new ideas. But there, there’s this group of, of voices and they all tend to know each other. They don’t always all get along with each other because humans are are human. But people like everyone knows everyone. There is a certain kind of dynamic at play where everyone knows everyone. And I think you and I know that that is true in the Atlanta ecosystem. There are a lot of people who just know each other, um, sometimes disagree or do business differently. And that’s okay. But if founders understand how to, how to, how to see that and how to, you know, when I say crack a relationship there, I mean like how to identify those people and create value for them in a way that’s more than, hey, I want free tickets to something or I want free access to this. But just to say, oh, this is, this is a certain echelon of people or a certain group of people that are in the know, they know what’s coming down the road. How to get into that community can be insanely powerful, and it has less to do with asking for stuff and more to do with consistently showing up and trying to support and just trying to be a part of the community.

Aly Merritt: I think of the Atlanta community especially, is a more welcoming and open ecosystem than a lot of other cities. Now, here’s the thing. I think compared to other cities, we’re doing good. We could be great. There’s a lot of room for improvement, but we have a lot of the same goals, and we frequently open our ecosystem and network to incomers who are new. And we don’t do that because we want to get something out of it. We do that because we genuinely want to grow the community. And I hear that a lot of times from people who have come in from SF, for example, and they say, when I go to an event and I meet somebody and they say, I’m going to make an intro for you, they actually do. Yeah. And that does not happen in San Francisco, partially because I think there’s a, an impression of scarcity of resources in SF, whether it’s accurate or not. I think there’s a lot of people who get very territorial in San Francisco around their ecosystem, their options. If I introduce this person, maybe they’ll get a thing that I didn’t. And not that there aren’t. I’m sure people in Atlanta who don’t think that way. But overall, I think the Atlanta community is collaborative, not competitive, and that is our superpower.

Adam Marx: I fundamentally agree with that because it’s the what I call the accessibility factor, which I, I’m just, I’m not looking at at only the money component. Like, you know, there’s a lot more money going on in startups in San Francisco and LA. I mean, but it’s harder if one isn’t a part of a rocket startup already or having had a successful exit, it is harder to get taken seriously out there. And I think, I mean, I don’t know if you actually know the story. Do you know how I met David Lightburn the first time tech village. Okay, so I.

Aly Merritt: Were you on an elevator with him?

Adam Marx: No, I wasn’t, but but I had known through Twitter, um, I knew Adam Wexler, you know, from from prize pics and.

Aly Merritt: Formerly insight pool, by the way. Oh, yeah. He’s our only double alumni graduate out of Atlanta Tech Village.

Adam Marx: Oh, I didn’t know that.

Aly Merritt: Insight pool graduated early on. Adam then spent six years building this quote again overnight success, right? Right of prize pics and came back and built it at ATV again.

Adam Marx: Amazing. So, so Adam and I knew each other just kind of casually. And I vividly remember I was like up in Sandy Springs and like, I was having like mechanic work done on my car and it was, I had like 30 minutes left and then it was free for the rest of the day. And we were just chatting via DM because I think at the time he was kind of commuting between Atlanta and New York. And, and so he’s like, oh, I’m actually down at ATV if you want to come down and like, I’m happy to just kind of have, you know, 5 or 10 minutes. And it turned out it was one of the ATVs, just kind of a community events. And, um, he was great. You know, we had a great kind of just coffee chat and whatever. He said, okay, come inside and meet some of the people. And he introduced me to David Lightburn, who, for people who haven’t met him, is very tall. Uh, certainly much taller than I am. And, um.

Aly Merritt: He does like to call himself the tall David.

Adam Marx: The tall David. And so Adam is, um, proceeding to introduce me to David and saying, oh, yeah, Adam’s done. Um, I like, I’m talking to myself about myself in the third person, but.

Aly Merritt: Not weird at.

Adam Marx: All. Not weird at all. Um, that, that he was mentioning to David that I had done, you know, tech journAlysm and this and that. And he may have seen my stuff on Twitter and David stops him mid-sentence and goes, oh, wait, I know you, right? The guy with the orange sunglasses. Right? You could have knocked me over with a feather. I was like, this is insane because here’s like president of the tech village. And it’s like, what? What is going on? But it’s indicative of two things that Adam was was just generous enough to share his network because I consider I consider both of them to be serious contacts. You know, you know where there’s mutual respect. But he at that time had already made a name for himself. And I was still kind of figuring out what my next play was. And so for someone to be generous with their contacts and be like, hey, come down and be a part of the community and let me introduce you to someone who has like some serious clout, but who also is like, hey, let’s have a conversation. And like, that’s how my, my relationship started with David. And that’s something I think Atlanta is very special with is just in integrating new people. But that’s also how relationships work. It wasn’t like, oh, here’s the president of the tech village. Now let me ask for something.

Aly Merritt: It’s not transactional, right? It’s relationship first relationship forward. And for those who don’t know, David Lightburn is one of the two Davids behind Atlanta Tech Village. David Cummings is the primary founder that everybody knows. David Lightburn is, as he says, the tall David and actually works more effectively than any other six foot eight person I’ve ever seen. I think he like, folds in on himself like a stalk. I don’t actually know how he does it. Um, but they’re both incredibly important in the Atlanta ecosystem. They’ve both built companies here. They’re now helping build not just more companies, but the city of Atlanta. And to your point, the fact that they pay attention.

Adam Marx: Yeah.

Aly Merritt: To the Atlanta ecosystem, to the landscape, um, not just what’s in it for them and their fancy now. And so they don’t know what’s going on on ground level. They know they knew he knew your orange sunglasses.

Adam Marx: Well, it’s well, that’ll be a conversation for another time about the orange sunglasses, but.

Aly Merritt: Which you are wearing right now. I appreciate your adherence to your brand.

Adam Marx: Oh, gosh. Sometimes you gotta, like, lean in and just move with it. But I think it’s really important to, founders to understand because there are like, you know, in an exciting way, there are a lot of people coming into the Atlanta ecosystem. And now the Atlanta Tech Village has built this really phenomenal brand and first in Buckhead, now in with South downtown and, and kind of being part of a real pillar, I think, of the Atlanta tech and startup ecosystem. But I want startups coming in to understand that, like having conversations, the idea of, I’d like to have a conversation with these people, you know, Adam Wexler, David Lightburn, David Cummings or you like these are real possibilities and they can really happen. They will more easily happen when someone comes in not looking for, hey, give me something. It’s come to come to a startup Chowdown come to an event that ATV hosts all the time. And like the David’s are very often at some of these events, come to a, come to the, um, the graduation for like the, the, the, um.

Aly Merritt: It takes a village.

Adam Marx: It takes a village accelerator program and like, just show up and listen to the startups and give some feedback and help the community.

Aly Merritt: And be supportive.

Adam Marx: Yeah.

Aly Merritt: Give feedback, be a first customer. You know, there are so many things you can do. And I think that goes back to you have to just show up, right? One of the things that Atlanta Tech Village believes very strongly is in, um, engineered serendipitous interactions, those collisions that happen in a hallway at the coffee shop, in the elevator, um, and serendipitous interactions don’t happen in a Zoom chat window. They happen in person.

Adam Marx: Well, I mean, that’s what I call it overflows into a concept I have called serendipitous empathy, which is just like, you just happen to be there and like, hey, man, I’m gonna cheerlead for your startup and like, you got some money in today. That’s great. You got a first customer in? That’s great. Someone wants to write an article that’s also great. Like all these things are good things. And it’s it reminds me of, um, because you and I are on the innovatetech thing together and like before that was even a thing. The ATL unlock thing that you did with Jay Bailey, which.

Aly Merritt: We’re going to be doing some, some reprises.

Adam Marx: Some more.

Aly Merritt: Of we’re going to do a reboot.

Adam Marx: So Jay Bailey from, from the Russell Center, who, whom I will never, ever, ever follow on stage because.

Aly Merritt: Oh no, he’s a mic drop.

Adam Marx: No, no, you can’t follow Jay.

Aly Merritt: I have a rule now that if we’re going to be on a panel, I have to go. You have to go first because I whatever he says, I’ll be like, yeah, that.

Adam Marx: Well, I just was on, on a panel. I told you with, uh, with, um, uh, Jen Whitlow from, uh, fusion and Mike Johnson from, uh, ATV and, uh, Quentin Bostic from, from, uh, Russell center. And like, my rule now extends to Quentin as well. He’s so good because I was like, I was sitting next to him and I leaned over. I was like, dude, I’m not following that. Like, like we’re, we’re finished.

Aly Merritt: I have nothing else to say here. You’ve said it all, and you said it in a shorter, more quotable way than I would have.

Adam Marx: More eloquent than I have the ability to be. Um, we’re we’re kind of like running up on time, but but before we do, you know, I want to just kind of tack back to something that’s unique in your journey and in mine, which is the journAlysm thing, because a lot of startups, they want PR, they want that. And it’s, it’s interesting because I happen to see a, uh, this a post from someone in my network who I think currently writes for TechCrunch or for, you know, one of the big Bloomberg or whatever. Um, and this was last summer and the post, which was public, anyone could see it was effectively boiled down to dear startups, please don’t slide into my DMs three days before your product launch and ask me to write something. It’s not that I don’t want to help, it’s that there’s a process and a protocol. I have to do the research. There’s due diligence. I have to, you know, figure out what the story looks like. I have to pitch it to my editor, then I have to write it. Then I have to go through the editorial process. Then we have to figure out how do we Alygn it with your launch? I need three weeks.

Aly Merritt: I mean, but in the age of AI, everybody expects instant gratification.

Adam Marx: Well, the amazing thing about this is that I looked through the comments and it was journAlyst after journAlyst, a tech journAlyst after tech journAlyst saying, oh my gosh, this, oh my gosh, this, oh my gosh, this from all these, some, some of the publications I was familiar with, some of them I was less familiar with. But the point being that all these people are saying, help us to help you. Okay? And so when we’re talking about network building, relationship building vis a vis journAlysm and PR and getting that story out there. It’s, hey, you’re going to have to put a little bit of time into this as well, a few months because that person may have a beat. Their beat may be, you know, agtech or health tech or whatever. And they have a bunch of stories.

Aly Merritt: There’s a schedule, there’s other people coming out in front of you. You are not the only amazing startup in the world. It’s, it’s spending time building that relationship in advance. Right? And then there’s a trust factor. Then the journAlyst that you’re reaching out to trust that you’re not just vaporware, you know that you are a functional startup that deserves to be written about and shared with the world. And I think that goes back to, I spent a lot of time trying to get my startup founders to go meet investors before they’re anywhere close to wanting to raise. Yeah, maybe they don’t even think they want to raise, I don’t care, go meet people now. Because when you add people into your cap table, when they are in charge of some of your equity, you’re getting into a marriage. Yeah. And you don’t really want to be doing this whole like blind date, blind marriage thing with somebody. You want to build a trust factor in advance. You want to have that investor be getting your weekly updates every single week for a year and a half before you go out for a raise, so that they know exactly what you’re doing and you already have a relationship with them.

Adam Marx: And you want an investor who understands this stuff is hard.

Aly Merritt: Yes.

Adam Marx: If it was easy, everyone would run out next week and make $2 million and they’d retire and it would be great.

Aly Merritt: This stuff that you can retire on $2.

Adam Marx: Million, well, you can’t.

Aly Merritt: Anymore. That’s really.

Adam Marx: Optimistic. You can’t anymore. But in theory, they would retire. You want an investor who will take the call and understand, oh, it feels like things are burning down. We’re going to work through this, okay? You don’t want someone just just for the bank account. Yeah. And you know, someone who brings in that support network, obviously the experience and the desire to see that your company grow and, and hopefully achieve its mission, you know, beyond only the sales component.

Aly Merritt: And there are some very good investors who are there for the long haul. Um, not as much private equity. Uh, a lot of private equity is exactly what people think that it is. There are several smaller firms here in town, fulcrum being one of them that I think are great at actually being there for the long haul for the companies they invest in. Most VCs are looking for potentially a follow on, right. And so they’re there for the long haul. But you have to find those people in advance to be able to build that trust factor. Because otherwise you’re meeting with somebody and they’re saying the right things, but you have no way of knowing if they mean it well.

Adam Marx: And the last thing I’ll add is that founders who are early on, um, and I was like this, I don’t necessarily know what kind of financing you might need. An angel is different than a VC is different than institutional banking is different than government grants. Like there are all these different resources for potential financial assistance. Uh, but they all have different flows. They all have different mechanics. And so it’s not like a one size fits all. You may not need a VC. You may need a government grant that gets you over that that first finish line.

Aly Merritt: Yeah. But it also is helpful if you have a VC who already has companies in their port. Oh yeah, that helped already do a SBIR sttr loan that maybe they have a specialty in that and they know how to navigate the process. And so there’s a lot of opportunity in every single relationship, even if the one thing you’re looking for isn’t in that exact relationship. And I think that goes back to, again, asking how I can help. Showing up in a room and just talking to people, getting to know them, learn about their kids, their dog, their life, their travels, you know, there’s so much more to a person. And Atlanta’s really great at building that trust factor so that when we do need somebody to lean on, that relationship is already there.

Adam Marx: I’m not even going to try and follow that. So we’re gonna wrap. Tell people where yeah, there’s the mic drop.

Aly Merritt: Forget about that. Yeah.

Adam Marx: Where people can go find you and support you and support what ATV is doing next and what you all have kind of coming down the road.

Aly Merritt: Yeah, absolutely. Our website’s one of the best places to start. Atlanta Tech village.com. And in fact, we are working on a refresh behind the scenes. Ooh, sparkly new things coming shortly. Um, you can also find us on Instagram, ATL, Tech Village and I also for South downtown, especially South downtown ATL on Instagram is a great place to start because we showcase all the historic finds that we’ve got down there. So now we do real estate. You know, we do a lot of things over here. Yeah, just.

Adam Marx: Yeah, I was.

Aly Merritt: Getting into real estate. It’s fine. I just work here.

Adam Marx: Oh well we’ll talk more about that behind the scenes.

Aly Merritt: Yes. It’s. Listen, it’s fun and exciting every single day.

Adam Marx: I’ll see you at the next ATV event.

Aly Merritt: All right. I’ll see you there.

From Structure to Freedom: Coaching Through Life After Work

April 14, 2026 by Jacob Lapera

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
From Structure to Freedom: Coaching Through Life After Work
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, host Lee Kantor interviews Millree Williams, owner of Willekop Coaching. Millree shares his journey from communications leader to coach, specializing in career transitions and retirement life coaching. He helps mid-to-late career professionals navigate identity shifts, reframe retirement as an exciting new chapter, and create fulfilling second acts on their own terms. Millree discusses working with organizations on employee retirement transitions, shares a client success story, and highlights his Retirement Roadmap framework.

Millree Williams has had several careers throughout his life—including roles as a tech editor, PR executive, communications leader, communications consultant, and professional coach. He has learned that everyone has the capacity to overcome challenges, struggle, and ultimately thrive in their careers.

Beyond coaching, he brings curiosity, an eagerness to learn, and the confidence that people can get through anything—qualities he shares with each client.

Connect with Millree on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Career transitions for mid to late career professionals
  • Retirement life coaching and its significance
  • Mindset shifts regarding retirement and identity management
  • Creating fulfilling second acts after leaving a career
  • The role of organizations in supporting retirement transitions
  • Coaching approaches and client experiences in navigating retirement
  • Importance of planning retirement on one’s own terms
  • Addressing age bias and the value of experience in the job market
  • The shift from traditional retirement activities to meaningful engagements
  • The impact of coaching on personal fulfillment and life structure post-retirement

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have the owner of Willekop Coaching, Millree Williams. Welcome.

Millree Williams: Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about your practice, how you serving folks?

Millree Williams: Yeah, I really do two different kinds of things. One is I really work a lot with career transition professionals, especially those who are in mid to late career, particularly late career. And I focus a lot of attention on helping people who are thinking about preparing for or in retirement, not the financial side, but the side that talks about, you know, what are you actually going to do now that you’ve put this money away?

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? Have you always been involved in coaching?

Millree Williams: No, I actually came to coaching about 8 or 9 years ago. I had been a communications leader in universities and in non-profits. And at one, at one point in my life, I got a coach who was helping me sort of navigate, you know, my way forward. And, you know, we did some really good work together. I was really happy about it. And then she came back a few years later and said, hey, you know, you really should be a coach. And of course, I was. I thought that was the worst possible thing I could be because I was a communications person. And she literally convinced me over about 3 or 4 months of calling me from New Zealand almost every week to convince me to do it. And ultimately, the point that she made that was kind of the pivotal place for me was, look, Mary, whether you become a coach or not, and I think that you will become a coach, but whatever you do, you’re going to learn some new skills that you’ll be able to use in your communications practice. You know, all these other kinds of areas. And so that convinced me to go out and, um, train to be a coach. And, um, you know, I just haven’t looked back.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you made the transition to becoming a coach, did you think initially. Well, I’ll be a coach in and around what I’ve been doing communications. Was that kind of your first move? And then you obviously pivoted.

Millree Williams: Yeah, that’s really interesting. Yes. That’s exactly what I thought was going to happen because I was a communications and marketing person and I thought, hey, I’m just going to coach, you know, marketing and communications people who are making transitions and, you know, the pandemic started shutting down opportunities that I ordinarily would find, you know, like going to conferences and things like that. And I had this conversation with my mentor coach, the one who convinced me to become a coach, and she said, look, your tribe, your niche will find you. You just continue doing good work. And that’s what I did. And I started working with people who were mid to late career. And ultimately it got me into this whole other demographic where I didn’t even think there was such a thing as a retirement life coach. But I started seeing more and more in my practice in the late, you know, career transitions area that people were really approaching retirement and thinking about, you know, who am I going to be in this next chapter of my life? And so many of them were thinking and, you know, concerned and cautious because they were thinking, you know, I just don’t know who I’m going to be. I’ve been putting money aside, but honest to goodness. I feel like this is kind of an end stage rather than a beginning. And of course, I’ve gone through many, you know, professional transitions in my life and I thought, this is an area where I can actually help people, uh, and just show them that there is a different way to think about it as well as, you know, just knowing that all the things that are really important to them, they already have inside of them. So yeah.

Lee Kantor: Now when you’re working with a client, are you kind of having that same conversation your coach had with you in terms of maybe you don’t have to figure it out? Exactly, but let’s just get directionally correct here and then just play in that world to see what kind of resonates.

Millree Williams: Uh, yeah, uh, that’s part of it. Uh, the larger part though is just helping them think, hey, and just know within themselves that I’m actually going to create this next exciting, sort of fulfilling chapter of my life, whether that’s a career transition or whether it’s planning for and entering into retirement. So, um, that’s really a baseline in most of the conversations that I have on both sides of the equation, career transition and, um, and retirement life coaching.

Lee Kantor: So the person has to kind of get the why, right?

Millree Williams: Yeah. And it’s just kind of a mindset shift, you know, rather than thinking, you know, I’m really feeling some trepidation about this next chapter, um, and whether or not, you know, how am I going to be approaching it and just create a level of excitement about you can now be whomever you want to be at this stage of your life. And, uh, is just really a very exciting time that you can actually create on your own terms. It’s not that you’re, you know, shifting Jobs, or you’re trying to fit into someone else’s thinking about who you might be or what they might need, and just thinking, what are the terms that I want to create and starting to live that out and just actually planning for it.

Lee Kantor: So instead of kind of taking a woe is me now, look, I didn’t want to do this, but now it’s thrust upon me. You try to reframe it to give them more agency and control over the possibilities.

Millree Williams: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: Now, do you find folks that are in the mid to late career, um, having a difficult time finding those opportunities maybe that were in a similar, maybe, um, amount of money they were making or even a similar amount of responsibility. Is it, is it difficult for, uh, mid to late career folks to kind of jump to a new opportunity or do they have to rethink everything?

Millree Williams: Well, you know those folks who are those professionals who are, um, in their late career, uh, transition. So many of them are thinking, oh my goodness, I’ve got to compete with a younger person or, uh, they’re thinking, oh, how do I get around this issue around age? And rather than thinking, uh, instead, what do I actually bring to the table? I’m a consistent, uh, employee. Maybe they’re going to be some areas that I’m going to have to that I’m going to have to upskill in. But an employer who gets me is going to get someone who is committed because they actually know who I am. They know you know what I stand for. I have a track record of of experience and excellence, and I’m going to bring a certain level of maturity to this role rather than thinking, how do I sort of game plan around the age issue? There are so many things that a person who is in late career transition, for example. Brings to the table and you know, they, you know, we’re taught in this society that youth is king. And it’s not always king or queen. It’s, uh, what is the value and what is your, what is the value you bring to an organization? And what is your value proposition in life in general, and what you actually bring to this new enterprise? And just leaning into that.

Lee Kantor: Now, do they have to kind of manage their expectations in terms of, well, maybe I won’t be able to get a full time job with all the benefits and perks that I had, but maybe I should transition into more of a consulting project based kind of second or third act.

Millree Williams: Well, you know, it just kind of depends on the terms they want to create for themselves. Um, if consulting is an area they want to go into and I made that transition myself. Um. Um, you know, earlier in my career, but if they want to, um, be embedded in an organization where they are, they get the benefits, they have a steady income rather than the cycles that go into consulting, uh, and contract work. They can just sort of create that on their own terms. Now, there may be some things that they’ll have to do. They may have to, you know, bone up on their tech skills. They may have to learn how to use the communications, uh, platforms that are in an organization. And, you know, there are some realities, you know, as we get older, you know, we learn a little bit more slowly, but the value that we ultimately bring to the enterprise is the bigger thing.

Lee Kantor: Now let’s switch gears into the retirement folks, because I find that to be an interesting, um, like you, I didn’t realize there was a market for folks that help somebody transition from working to retirement. When you discovered that, um, what were some of those conversations you were having where you were able to say, you know what, I can be a bridge and help people make a successful transition. What were some of the, the fears or trepidations that the, um, retiree or, or almost retiree was having? Right? Yeah. Like how, what were those early conversations where you were like, okay, now I can see, I see where the challenge is and where I can be a bridge.

Millree Williams: Yeah. One of like, one of the first things I was hearing pretty consistently is the whole idea around identity. You know, who am I now? Who am I as I’m going into this next phase of life? And when they hadn’t answered that question. That’s where the trepidation and the caution and the anxiety started. Because, you know, quite frankly, most people were building their own financial base. And the the opportunity then became, you know, where who am I going to be? You know, what am I going to be able to do with the lack of structure when, you know, and you get an opportunity to create those things on your own? Our people. Are my family members going to be considering me a retiree, which I’d love to get rid of that word, but are they going to be considering me as a retiree? And my, my, um, time blocks are totally open to anybody that I want, you know, who wants to pop into my life? So creating structure, identifying, you know, who they want to be, leveraging whatever their assets have been in the past, you know, whether areas of expertise, passion projects, Volunteerism. Consulting. Contracting. You know, whatever those things are. Creating it on their own terms. That’s really where, um, I started seeing and started helping people create on their own terms who they wanted to be. And I think once I started really working with, um, people who were approaching retirement and they started doing that mental pivot, they really got more, much more excited. I mean, if they wanted to go back to work and do something part time or be a consultant, you know, and building on an area of expertise, that’s great. But if they wanted to just kick back and travel for a while, that’s the terms. Those are the terms that they’re creating on their own. And I think, um, when people, when my clients started seeing, hey, I now have the latitude to do the things that I want to do, that’s when it really started kicking in for them. And, uh, that’s the thing that World Cup coaching helps people navigate.

Lee Kantor: And so they get kind of that aha moment where it’s like, oh, I control every aspect of this. These are every choice I make are my choices. I don’t have to really do anything. I get to do lots of things.

Millree Williams: Exactly. And I get to do them on my own terms. It’s a process. I mean, it’s a it’s not that. It’s not one conversation that you might have with someone or that I might have with a client. It’s helping them think about what is the difference, uh, what, what’s going to be the impact of your family on your retirement? You know, have you checked in with them? Have you checked in with your partner? Uh, what are the things that really are important to you? Uh, maybe it’s, um, creating a legacy or maybe it’s mentoring. Maybe you’ve got additional skills that you want to bring to another organization as a consultant, you know, where you help an organization problem solve. Uh, maybe you just want to work just enough to do the kind of travel at the level that you really are. The level where you want to be. You know, whatever those things are, helping my clients identify what those important, uh, levels are with those important, uh, steps are. And then helping them create a plan to do that really is very empowering to them.

Lee Kantor: Do, do people believe nowadays? I think, um, when we were younger, maybe you pictured, oh, when I retire, I’ll be fishing all day or playing golf or doing some leisure activity, you know, forever. And it’s like eating cake, like eating cakes. Nice. Once in a while, but I don’t know if I want to eat cake at every meal. Uh.

Millree Williams: Right.

Lee Kantor: But so is that kind of a mindset shift that people still have nowadays, or are they, or are we kind of beyond that, where people realize that, hey, life is long and I got to fill 24 hours every day, so I better have stuff to do or else I’m going to go crazy.

Millree Williams: Well, it’s not so much. I better have stuff to do. It’s more I’m going to be alive. I expect to be alive in around for at least 20, 25 more years. You know, minimally and I think society has demonstrated that that’s generally the case. And um, how am I going to spend these this. You know, what chapter am I going to create and how is that going to look on my terms? And, um, you know, look, people go back to work. You know, people consult, uh, people do a lot of different things professionally. Uh, but they also find things that they really want to do in their community. They want to spend more time with their, you know, children or grandchildren, whatever those things are. Li it’s, it’s, you’re setting an intention that this is the way I want to walk going forward as opposed to I’m being pulled into something. You know, I was I my, my company, you know, forced me into retirement. I wasn’t really ready for it psychologically and emotionally. And so now I’m kind of stuck. No, it’s like you have an opportunity now to just create the lifestyle that you want and it happens. Yeah, you would be.

Millree Williams: Well, you might not be shocked to know that it happens, you know, amongst high net worth, uh, people who are working with financial planners. It happens in succession planning in organizations, professional athletes who are, you know, have been cut from their teams. Now, you know, who are in their 30s, they’re young, they, uh, have money and resources and they, but now they just don’t have the identity that they’ve been used to having for 20 years, you know? Um, so we’re not 20 years, but maybe for, for professional athlete, maybe 10 or 15 years. So, you know, what is the, what are those areas that you’re actually lacking that you really want to now, you know, um, pivot and do some other things, you know, like, for example, a professional athlete who’s cut from a team has had a tax sheltered foundation that he or she has been working in. And they’ve been doing that for a while now. They get a chance maybe to lean into it a little bit more fully. Maybe they do some things with the NBA or the NFL where they can do, you know, partner. So the setting, the intention is really the thing.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you help them just for that initial kind of shock of when that happens? Because at that point, I would imagine there’s a lot of fear bubbling up and a lot of, um, you know, going from some, like you said, structured, organized life to now an unstructured, um, chaotic, seemingly chaotic life going from very clear, um, path of what every day and week looks like to now a blank calendar. How do you help them through that period of being untethered? I would imagine for some people that’s very, maybe the scariest part, like waking up one the next day and not having anything to do. Like, do you try to get to them before that happens? Like, are you part of organizations kind of, um, you know, offboarding process? Um, or is this something that just like here they are, it’s the next day and it’s like, figure it out guy.

Millree Williams: Well, I, I work with clients all along the spectrum. Um, if they’re in an organization and the organization has brought me in to do a webinar or a workshop on succession planning or in a wellness program. I get employees to start thinking about that in advance. Uh, if, uh, a wealth management, uh, organization has brought me in to, um, work with some of their retiring, you know, wealth managers, for example, um, I get a chance to have those conversations in advance. Um, but, you know, I just want to step back just a second and just kind of say that, um, you know, people think that the fear is that they’re going to have this huge chunk of time and that they’re not going to be able to do anything with it, or they’re afraid that the lack of structure, um, for them is intimidating and has them sort of, to use your phrase, untethered. But the reality is that once people really start talking about what’s really important to them. And this is where I come in in many ways. In the very beginning, to just have them thinking about, you know, like what’s really important to you at this moment. And you would really be shocked at least to, to see the light go off. Uh, the light go on, uh, amongst, uh, clients and my clients in particular where they start thinking, okay, all right, so this is not something that I should be afraid of. Now, if I want to spend a certain number of hours a week with my grandkids or my, my children, that’s great. If I want to travel, let me start planning that. Uh, if I want to work part time, you know, or volunteer, let me start thinking about that. Where might these opportunities be? If I want to go back and consult or be a contractor, short term, you know, project focused contractor, where can I do that and where does that fit in my life? But the intention is I want to be in control of that, where maybe prior to that, you know, they had been pulled along organizationally.

Lee Kantor: Now our organization’s especially, I mean, every day you’re reading about layoffs nowadays. Um, are they on one hand, they’re comfortable laying off lots and lots of people. Are they at least mindful enough and have enough humanity to insert somebody like you into the process to make that kind of transition at least more humanized?

Millree Williams: I would love to have that happen. It’s starting to happen more and more. Uh, and I’m working with, you know, particularly corporate HR offices where they are really sort of focused on, um, you know, the fact that they have a retirement plan for their the employees, but, you know, employees who are entering the last couple years of their work, their work experience in the organization are starting to look outside rather than thinking about, you know, what is the great succession plan that I, as an HR leader, can create? How can I have this person thinking more about mentoring folks and, you know, while doing his or her work? How can I have them think about mentoring and creating a plan that, you know, sort of maintains the intellectual property of an organization rather than having it walk out of the door because a person, you know, has now retired and you’ve thought about it more as a financial issue rather than a succession issue.

Lee Kantor: And, and then they leave all that history behind and all that, um, that knowledge.

Millree Williams: And, and yeah, and HR offices really as they’re beginning to think more and more about this. They’re bringing people like me on to really be thinking about that and planning it because, you know, like retirement really isn’t a date. It’s actually a human transition. And how can an HR office in an organization help to manage that? And guess what? Uh, when organizations think about this in a different way, the brand of the organization is embellished in a way that they really never really were thinking about. Because if you have employees who you’re interviewing, uh, on the front end of their relationship with the organization, guess what? When they start thinking that, hey, I’m thinking about Mary as a human being, what sort of not just skills that I can help Mil recreate, but how can I help him to create the kind of program that’s going to make sense for him as a human being that really embellishes your brand as well.

Lee Kantor: And I would help. I would hope that would help in recruiting your next generation of talent, because they would see how you treat your people.

Millree Williams: Exactly, exactly.

Lee Kantor: So, um, is there a story you can share about maybe one of your clients that came to you with, uh, maybe they’re going through a transition, or maybe they were going into a second act of their career that you find rewarding. Were you able to help them get to a new level?

Millree Williams: Yes. Sure.

Lee Kantor: You don’t have to name their name, but maybe just share the challenge they were going through.

Millree Williams: Yeah, yeah. I, um, was recruited by a wealth management firm to help a retiring senior executive. So a wealth manager who was a senior executive for this organization. And they wanted to, they, they wanted to bring somebody like me in. And they, they interviewed several different people and they found me. They brought me in to help this person. Um, they wanted to give him an off ramp, and that was very kind of this organization of this wealth management team. So they wanted to give him an off ramp. So, you know, they gave him golf clubs and a whole bunch of different things, but they also offered him, uh, eight months of retirement life transition, retirement, life planning. And so they brought me on to do that. And honest to goodness, when I first started working with this guy, he was really sort of, uh, anxious about what’s next for him. And this kind of gets into the whole sort of, um, you know, identity issue, which we see, which I see so commonly amongst, uh, many of my clients, I started working, I started working with him and he would be on the golf course and someone would say, so what do you do? And honest to goodness, he was he hesitated because he had built a whole legacy of success bringing clients on, helping them manage their money and all of these different kinds of things.

Millree Williams: And he just hesitated on the golf course. He hesitated because he didn’t really have an identity for himself. He also didn’t have any structure. And one of the things that he and I tackled quite a bit was so often when he was working, he was building in the time of day where he was really in a very structured environment, and in the evenings he could do all the things with his wife and with his, you know, his son. Um, but then once he retired, he found himself doing so many of these different things during the day that he couldn’t figure out exactly what to do with that 6 to 8 p.m. time that ordinarily would be filled with his family, because now he was spending more time with them. So we spent a lot of time trying to figure out, you know, who am I now? So he can really seamlessly and with passion answer the question that he was seeing so often on the golf courses, as well as figuring out the kinds of things he could do in his own family. And of course, travel was one of those big, big deals that was really important for him and his wife spending more time, you know, helping his son, um, learn more about stocks and investing and those kinds of things, helping his son create a small business. All of those things became, um, they emerged as priorities for him that he really didn’t know when we started talking and when we started working together, uh, he found that he had this really passionate interest in Eagles, and he really started doing a bunch of research.

Millree Williams: He started actually working with his golf associates, with his golf club, with his, the, the, the golf course where he played the golf course. Thanks. Uh, the golf course to because he, they, he discovered that there were several eagles that were in that area. And so he would do lectures. So all of these things were things that he never was thinking about. Um, when he was, you know, exiting his organization and they just became very, very important to him. He was carving out time. He was creating, you know, plans to travel with his wife. He was helping his son, um, create a business. All these different things. And he started out believing that he was not going to have enough time. And then all of a sudden he, I mean, he, was trying to figure out what am I going to do with this time. And then he started, you know, as he walked through this whole process and started getting engaged in these other areas, he started realizing, hey, I just don’t have enough time in the day. So it was really a very interesting sort of transition for it.

Lee Kantor: Now, how do you deliver your coaching? Is it primarily a one on one or do you do group coaching or is there online courses?

Millree Williams: Oh yeah, I, yeah, I don’t do online courses. I do workshops for organizations. Um, I work individually with a portfolio of individual clients. I get referrals. Um, and I create this thing that I call the, um, retirement roadmap. And it’s a sort of a framework to help people think through what’s really important to them.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive Conversation with you. What’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Millree Williams: Yeah, they can reach me at Mary at corp.com or they can go to my website, which is william.com.

Lee Kantor: And that’s W I l l e k o p.com.com.

Millree Williams: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: Well thank you.

Millree Williams: The easiest way is to just reach out to me directly.

Lee Kantor: And then you’re also on LinkedIn, right?

Millree Williams: Absolutely.

Lee Kantor: All right. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Millree Williams: I really feel like I’m this is an area where I can provide great value to people and I’m really passionate about it. So thank you.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Tagged With: Millree Williams, Willekop Coaching

Inside EVOLVE: Empowering MEP Contractors to Design, Fabricate, and Install Buildings Faster with Automation and Offsite Fabrication

April 14, 2026 by Jacob Lapera

Nashville Business Radio
Nashville Business Radio
Inside EVOLVE: Empowering MEP Contractors to Design, Fabricate, and Install Buildings Faster with Automation and Offsite Fabrication
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In this episode of Nashville Business Radio, Lee interviews Richard Burroughs IV, CEO and CTO of EVOLVE, a software company specializing in design and fabrication tools for mechanical, electrical, and plumbing (MEP) contractors. Richard shares his background in building construction and how he joined EVOLVE in 2020. He explains how EVOLVE helps contractors design buildings faster through offsite prefabrication, reducing construction timelines significantly. The conversation highlights the complexity of construction software adoption, the importance of customization, and how EVOLVE complements existing coordination tools. A standout example showcases how one client reduced a six-month installation to just 48 hours using EVOLVE’s solutions.

Richard Burroughs IV serves as CEO of EVOLVE, a construction technology company developing design and fabrication software that accelerates VDC and prefab performance. He is focused on modernizing how work gets done by driving the shift toward manufacturing and construction operating as one integrated system.

His background spans finance, operations, product development, analytics, and even fiddle playing—experiences that shape how he leads, partners with, and engages MEP professionals. He prioritizes meeting teams where they are and building solutions at the intersection of technology and the built environment.

At EVOLVE, he operates with a simple philosophy: listen closely, understand deeply, and innovate with purpose. He believes that when meaningful tools are built alongside the people who use them every day, results follow.

Connect with Richard on LinkedIn.

Episode Highlights

  • Overview of Evolve and its focus on design and fabrication software for MEP contractors.
  • Richard Burrows’ background in building construction and his journey to becoming CEO and CTO of Evolve.
  • The unique value proposition of Evolve in serving an underserved niche within the construction software market.
  • Challenges faced by MEP contractors in software adoption and the complexity of construction projects.
  • Importance of customization and coordination among multiple trades in the construction industry.
  • The shift from onsite assembly to offsite fabrication and its impact on construction timelines.
  • Evolve’s approach to educating clients and building trust through pilot projects and hands-on experiences.
  • Integration of Evolve’s software with existing coordination tools like Autodesk Revit.
  • Ideal client profile for Evolve and the types of companies they serve.
  • The need for raising awareness about career opportunities in the trades and the importance of MEP contractors in the economy.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Nashville, Tennessee. It’s time for Nashville Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Nashville Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have the CEO with EVOLVE, Richard Burroughs. Welcome.

Richard Burroughs IV: It’s great to meet you. Thank you for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us about EVOLVE, how you serving folks?

Richard Burroughs IV: Absolutely. So we are a software company that sells design and fabrication software for mechanical, electrical and plumbing trade contractors. So we help them design buildings and fabricate and install the parts, the MEP systems of those buildings.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s a great question. I’ll give you the short answer. So I grew up in the built environment, got a degree from Georgia Tech and building construction. Went to China for supply chain related to a big general contractor building apartments here in the United States. Went to business school and then fell in love with this small software business at the time. EVOLVE to join that company post business school in January or June of 2020, and grew in the ranks for the firm. And I’m now the CEO for the business.

Lee Kantor: So what was it about EVOLVE that got you so fired up that you decided to, you know, get involved to the level you did?

Richard Burroughs IV: Yeah, it’s a great question. While at University of Virginia in business school, I did a field case. So I wrote a research case working with this startup EVOLVE at the time to understand how they could grow the business, whether they wanted to pursue funding to grow the business, these types of questions. And part of the work was financial analysis and modeling. But a good part of the work was interviewing a lot of the key employees, many of whom are still at the business. So now our VP of product and he on our VP of engineering, Jason Faulkner, and hearing them describe how necessary these design automation software tools that they were building for these electrical and mechanical plumbing trade contractors in order for them to do their jobs and to design buildings faster and to be more constructible. You know, hearing their passion was really what led me to join the business.

Lee Kantor: And what about the EVOLVE solution did you find so intriguing and so important for the industry?

Richard Burroughs IV: Yeah, it’s a great question. So we’re what the world calls a vertical market software business. So said simply, we focused on a corner of the world that at the time, ten years ago, nobody else was really certain. So there’s a lot of very big companies like Autodesk who provide big platform softwares for the broader architecture and engineering and overall construction industry to leverage. But at the time especially, no one was serving these mechanical, electrical and plumbing contractors. And really, when you think about it, those trade contractors are carrying the vast majority actually delivering these buildings that we so rely on, things like data centers. The largest portion of the actual, if you get into what that building is comprised of, comes from the MEP contractors work. So they were underserved. They needed. There’s huge pressure to decrease the the construction timelines to execute these buildings. So they have to produce faster. Uh, somebody has to serve them the means to produce things faster, design faster, and to fabricate and install material faster. Uh, this company sits squarely in the middle of supporting that.

Lee Kantor: So if there was no EVOLVE, how were they doing it before you were around?

Richard Burroughs IV: Uh, so it’s a great question. There was such a need, uh, that we saw companies home building, home developing software about ten years ago. This was before AI. So frankly a much harder process than than perhaps now. But there was such a demand, such a need, that we saw contractors developing their own solutions to automate their designing of these MEP systems. Um, so in part, we actually acquired code from a contractor. We ended up rebuilding, redesigning that code base and launched what we now call EVOLVE electrical. About a year after that was May 2016. Uh, that’s a great signal of the demand. Again, it was an underserved space that needed to produce things faster and had to get the tools together to accomplish that.

Lee Kantor: And then did the same thing happen with mechanical?

Richard Burroughs IV: Uh, exactly. So we followed the electrical product about a year later. So this was May 2016, was inception of the business. Uh, about November 2017 was our fourth sale of, uh, of all, of all electrical, our launch of that product. And then about a year later was, uh, the fast follow with EVOLVE mechanical.

Lee Kantor: And so is that how you’ve been kind of growing It’s just kind of listening to your clients and then just building them a solution that, you know, will save them time and resources.

Richard Burroughs IV: Lea. That’s exactly right. You know, something that makes EVOLVE unique is our desire and willingness to hire from industry. So we have over 200 collective years of design experience from the MEP trades that constitute our product management team. They constitute our customer support team, among others. And so that allows us to really understand and live and breathe the voice of the customer, as the software world calls it. That allows us to create purpose built solutions that actually meet them where they are. Uh, so we are not here selling vision, you know, we’re selling practicality. You know, our customers think of them as, you know, the, the world’s, you know, best tradesmen and women, right? So they don’t want, you know, the, I’m going to go to Walmart and buy a given product off the shelf. I want to go to Ace Hardware. I want to engage with an expert that’s lived and breathed my craft, that can speak my language and understand my needs and help me on, you know, the mission that I’m trying to achieve. So they need service and tools. So we have to provide both great tools, purpose built and the service above and beyond that.

Lee Kantor: Um, the, this industry, do they tend to be risk averse or are they do, is it easy to find these early adopters that want to try a new thing?

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s a great question, Lee. You know, it’s oft quoted in, you know, the famous Andreessen Horowitz, uh, venture capital fund. They just came out with an article about how construction lags in digital adoption of software. And I see these things all the time and I defend our industry. You know, it’s a reflection not of their willingness to try digital tools and software. The lack of adoption is a reflection of the complexity of the project delivery itself. So the number of stakeholders, Architecture and engineering and site and civil and structural and MEP. The trade contractors, the general contractor. The owner. The local building. You know contact such as code in the city itself. There’s so many factors that go into how you deliver something like a data set. So bespoke, it’s that kind of marginal cost problem. It’s hard to get, you know, uniform software that applies to all of these different use cases and stakeholders. So that’s why the construction industry rarely lags in, quote, software adoption. It certainly is not only due to the lack of interest or desire to adopt software. Again, I’ll go back to the way we started. Our contractor trade base was building their own software. Um, the amount of scripting and Dynamo and PowerShell, the amount of kind of last inch customization, the tinkering is world class. Um, so our users often blend to almost like an engineer, like a developer in the software world, we call it in their day jobs. So their willingness is there. It’s the product’s complexity that makes applying software uniformly across the whole industry very difficult.

Lee Kantor: So because of the complexity and the fact that there’s, there could be a no around every corner in that world. Um, how do you help educate your clients or prospective clients so they feel confident that this is going to not only solve these problems but make their life easier?

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s a great question. So again, like software wants every use case to be the same, right? Because software has typically very low marginal cost to sell in the next client. They want every client to be the same. Well, as we just discussed, that’s not the case for our industry. So there’s a certain level of customization that you have to provide within your product. And that is a common talk track with us. So an example could be when I design as a user of EVOLVE, I by design, an electrical system in a building. I draw my conduit. I draw my support, I draw my equipment, and eventually I have thousands and thousands of parts and footage of these things inside this building design. Well, it can’t execute all of that at once. I have to break that up into a proverbial Lego brick. You know, a smaller part that I can act on tomorrow, what the industry calls a spool. And so we provide the ability to define your schools, and then you create a deliverable for that school, what we call a shot draw. And you can picture an 11 by 17 sheet of paper with a dimension drawing of some pipe and conduit and supports. Um, and maybe there’s a schedule that shows what those materials are, this, this semblance of a shotgun. Well, every company will have different standards to execute, say that shop drawing or maybe the size and start and end points of their spool. So we can provide things like templates and then the automation. Once you define your settings and templates, you can create this shop drawing the same way every time per your standard. But we’ve automated that kind of last ditch. So it’s this blend of automation and customization that allows you to serve and get over that kind of trust hump with industry.

Lee Kantor: But before your clients buy, is there a way for you to kind of give them a chance to try it on, or do they have to kind of go all in?

Richard Burroughs IV: Oh, it’s a great question. So absolutely, there’s ways to ingest their existing building designs and run, you know, a pilot in our words. Um, you certainly have to have that in a limited capacity. It’s in a controlled instance, but you can test, for instance, the previous example, I want to recreate a full template and a shop drawing template. I want to see a time trial and a B study of how long it takes me to create these deliverables and my current methods. And with EVOLVE. So we offer those services as part of pre-sales. As you move towards fabrication, it gets a bit harder. So for instance, if I want to test fabricating conduit. Well, now you have specialized machines. Uh, and there’s an interesting shift in the industry where especially for electrical, uh, machine automation has just now come about in existence. So we’re once all things were fabricated with manual or semi manual processes with hydraulic benders, you’re telling it when to start and stop. Now that work is done with an automated capacity with things like CNC bending. So what we’ve done to allow them to test that out is we actually invested in a physical fabrication lab. As we say in Atlanta. They can take their designs. We now have a CNC bender, a Positioner and the specialized equipment in Atlanta. They can submit their designs to us and then visit us in the Fab Lab Atlanta and actually run time trials and see it physically produced. But it gets a little harder there. You kind of got to fly and be there in person.

Lee Kantor: But ultimately that’s going to save, um, your client time and money. Right?

Richard Burroughs IV: Exactly. Right. I mean, the entire, uh, the reason for our existence is buildings have to be built faster today. So we run a survey every year, 68% of MEP trade contractors have experienced greater than 25% schedule reduction over the last three years. So they have 25% less time to build the same building today than three years ago or more. Um, and so the way that they accomplish that is they have shifted from on site construction assembly and installation of materials to offsite fabrication. So the metaphor I’ll use is picture a Lego brick, picture a one by one square Lego brick, the smallest instant size you could get. Picture a two by six, that larger classic brick size. Now try to build a wall that’s four feet long and two feet high. Using a one by one and a two by six. Well, you’re going to do the two by six. It would be a lot faster to build that wall. Uh, that’s the nature of the work our clients do. We allow them to create these parts, these spools, offsite, before the building reaches readiness so the concrete gets poured. The second that concrete is poured, they can go and install like this proverbial two by six brick, this larger portion of MSP and it goes much, much, much faster. So that’s kind of the core of our value proposition.

Lee Kantor: And so everything becomes integrated before, before they’re even there.

Richard Burroughs IV: Exactly. Right. So design and fabrication all have to occur before the concrete’s even poor, the building doesn’t even exist. It’s roughly akin to like buying furniture before you buy your house. You know, there’s a lot of sort of forecasting and design and understanding of what that’s going to look like, the amount of space you’ll have, the exact placement of certain parts that allows you to execute your designs and your fabrication before the building’s there.

Lee Kantor: But the technology helps you get all of that exactly right without having to, to, to be there and do it on site.

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s exactly right. So if we’re going to go build like the new T patch center, uh, in Nashville, before that building, before the site’s been cleared, before they put the foundation in, I’ve already designed that entire building down to the eighth inch, you know, every single element in that building. I know exactly how long my pipe needs to be, where my supports need to be placed, and then I can release those to my manufacturing facility and I can fabricate them. And they’re sitting there in my warehouse. And the second that concrete is poured, I can go install that order.

Lee Kantor: And so, um, when you tell that to your clients or prospective clients, is that is their head explode like that seems like too good to be true.

Richard Burroughs IV: Oh, so look, credit to industry. So these off site fabrication, doing these things in advance. Uh, it was spearheaded by the mechanical employment industries. Um, it’s now been adopted fully by electrical. So they understand that it’s the way of the future. It’s the business model of construction is becoming manufacturing. That religion is now believed, if you will. So we’re selling Bibles. To an extent for things like design automation, but where you continue to see the evolution of the business model itself is in what I referenced earlier. It’s well, now we fabricate things off site in a controlled environment, but I need to do that faster. I need to increase the production rates. And to do that, I have to I need to I need to find some innovation. I need to buy machine automation by an example. So instead of producing content with manual hand benders or semi manual hydraulic benders, I could buy a fully automated CNC bender, get 80 to 100 bins a day, and you can start seeing, well, you better have designs of a quality that can feed that vendor appropriately. So this seamless design through fabrication, all of the pre-processing and controls around what the nature of that design is, it’s that next level of maturity we know we have to fabricate off site. Well, how do we scale that? Now? That’s the question that we’re dealing with.

Lee Kantor: And then how do you deal with the fact that, like you mentioned earlier, that there’s so many, um, you know, hands on a project, how do you get everybody to communicate to the level they have to so that all of that can elegantly be put together?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, it’s a, it’s a great question. It’s what the industry calls coordination. So let’s just say there might be 20 different trades, specialty trades and electrical and plumbing, etc., that combine to form the entirety of a building’s design, all the different systems. Well, like you said, well, what if, what if the, uh, the fire protection guy has his pipe and it’s running right through where the Hvac is supposed to go? How do you know that these things are a problem in advance before the building’s physically present? It’s what the industry calls coordination. They all create design. Those designs share the same common offering platform. It’s Autodesk Revit. Same with our clients. Uh, and then they can compare those designs. Where is the location of my part versus yours? Do I need to move or do you? And they, they will shift things around until the building has been coordinated, at which point they know that the design will equal what will become physical reality. So they can start to do things like spool those designs, release them for fabrication, bring them into existence and ready them for install.

Lee Kantor: And EVOLVE plays nicely with that kind of quarterbacking software that everybody’s already using.

Richard Burroughs IV: That’s exactly right. So that’s there’s companies like Autodesk has a Navisworks product. Revisto is a wonderful business that solves coordination quite well. So we’re how they design the building and how they detail that design and consume that design for fabrication. We play directly with how they coordinate. So they’ll use a different software for coordination.

Lee Kantor: So is then is your who is your ideal client? Is it kind of the master software so that you’re implemented in all of their projects, or is it? Do you have to kind of get individual people to buy into EVOLVE?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, it’s always, uh, you, we want to serve the labor market and the company market equally. So our ideal client from the company perspective, it’s a trade contractor, mechanical, electrical or plumbing or a combination of, they tend to have around 75 or 100 employees. Um, they use 3D design and off site fabrication as their business model. Uh, or they want to, they recognized that prefabrication, offsite fabrication is the way of the future. They need to invest in the methods, processes, and technologies to allow them to do that so we could help them get there. Um, in terms of the high end, we serve some of the MEP industry’s largest um, trade contractors, Rosen’s and Cupertino’s, um the Harris mechanicals of the world, K Murphy co, you name it that e n r you know, 1 to 3 billion, uh, top line revenue, and locally here as well. I’d be remiss if I didn’t shout out. So like enterprise solutions, wonderful electrical contractor. They utilize prefab to build the Fisher Center performing arts, the beautiful center at Belmont. Uh, Lee co, uh, Lee company, wonderful mechanical, multi trade contractor. Um, and we also support Stancil electric. They do a lot of industrial work, like the Dry Creek wastewater facility out here in Davidson County.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share about? Uh, maybe it was early on or maybe it was just a rewarding story where, um, one of your clients deployed EVOLVE and they were able to get maybe a result that even surprised them.

Richard Burroughs IV: Absolutely. Um, let’s reference enterprise as well and pull up the actual quote here. Um. So let’s see. So enterprise solutions, they’re an electrical contractor, um, for a recent project. So if you think about the building underneath the ground, you have to pull power from the street. These huge conduits, these big pipes with huge wires coming in from the street to get power to the building. Um, these are called duct banks. So the electrical contractor has to install underground duct banks. And historically, those are done piece by piece, pipe by pipe. But what they did is they created again this idea of this Lego brick. So they took a bunch of pipes and added them into a single what they call a skid. So think about like a big metal framing that carries like 40ft of these huge pipes carrying wire, and they break that entirety up into these different skids. And they were able to do what would have taken six months of traditional work. They were able to install the entire underground duct, uh, in 48 hours. Um, so getting that gain at the field install, that’s their throughput one.

Lee Kantor: Wow. That, I mean, that sounds impossible. I mean, when you, I mean, to even have a conversation telling somebody that that’s possible, It seems too good to be true.

Richard Burroughs IV: And it’s, um, the hard part is getting there. So again, the, the magic is in the field install. If I can install that two by six Lego brick, I can move, you know, ten, 20 times faster installing material in the field. But to create that two by six slug correctly is like, that’s the hard part. That’s the upfront design plan, the coordination, the offsite fabrication. That’s, that’s where the magic is.

Lee Kantor: Right? But it’s, um, it’s just going against, you know, a person’s anything they’ve seen with their eyes prior and you’re, and you’re, it makes intellectual sense, but just having their experience in the past be so different, it just must be jaw dropping when it actually happens. Like you promise?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, absolutely. Yep.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help?

Richard Burroughs IV: Um, look, just get the word out. So a broader appeal is the trades themselves. Um, the trades are a fantastic industry to build a career in. Uh, careers are incredibly accessible. Uh, demand is extreme. You know, there’s an oft quoted labor shortage, but that not just applies to field roles. It also applies to these design roles. It applies to these fabricator roles. You don’t have to work on a job site in the field installing material. You can be on a computer doing this design work in an office. Um, all of these roles are in huge demand right now. They’re very accessible. Not all of them need college degrees. So it’s a broader appeal. Look at the trades for your career, for your if you’re a young man or woman, you know, come out of high school, come out of college. Um, another appeal is for folks to understand really who’s carrying the weight of the economy. Obviously that’s a broad statement, but when you think about things like AI, these emerging technologies, if you think about the semiconductor, the chips that power, the data centers that that provide the processing for AI? All of those buildings are being built by the trades. A huge portion of the data center projects cost and material and labor is carried by the electrical. So, um, and so the growth that we’re seeing in the MEP broadly and the amount of work they’re doing to support the broader economies march towards these new technologies, it goes unnoticed. People don’t realize how critical these MEP trade contractors really are. So the awareness is is really the summary for me. Just be aware of what’s happening in the trades as they EVOLVE from construction trade contractors to manufacturing driven trade contractors.

Lee Kantor: Now, from the standpoint of your ideal customer, what are they? What’s the pain they’re having right before they hire you? What is kind of some signals that, hey, maybe they should contact Richard and his team?

Richard Burroughs IV: Yeah, it’s a great question. Um, oftentimes you’ll have. The company will not have standards. So I’ll go back to the. The previous example of a shop drawing is a shop drawing produced for a given, say, hangar or a piece of conduit or a rack of a few pieces of conduit. Is it produced the same way every time? Uh, does it have all the dimensions and bills of materials, the instructions needed on that sheet for the fabricators and material folks downstream to do their jobs the first time and not have an information retrieval wastage problem. Um, we see that very commonly. Um, the second piece you look at is if there’s no standardization or if there is, well, how long does it take you to produce that deliverable? Are you modeling your design manually? Click by click by click. Are you placing your hangers? You know, adding these details manually? Click by click. And if we see that symptom as well, then it’s a reflection that our automation can really increase your productivity. Roughly 1.3 x about 25% time savings gets you about 1.3 x gain on productivity. So those are the common signs that we see.

Lee Kantor: And if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Richard Burroughs IV: Absolutely. Lee. So our website is WW. Dot com. Uh, and I live in Nashville, so find me on LinkedIn. Let’s, let’s grab coffee sometime.

Lee Kantor: Good stuff. Well, Richard, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Richard Burroughs IV: Hey, Lee, credit to the trades. And thank you, sir for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Nashville Business Radio.

Tagged With: EVOLVE, Richard Burroughs IV

Go Further: Strategies for Leadership, Growth, and Self-Mastery

April 7, 2026 by Jacob Lapera

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Go Further: Strategies for Leadership, Growth, and Self-Mastery
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On this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee Kantor welcomes Laurence Anthony, founder of Go Further Coaching, to discuss the art of helping high-performing individuals and teams reach their full potential. Laurence shares his journey from careers in film, luxury real estate, and consulting to discovering his true purpose in coaching. He dives into how he empowers clients to overcome fear, build confidence, and make decisions that align with their values and future selves. From Fortune 100 executives to individuals navigating life transitions, Laurence reveals practical insights on moving from “should” to “could” and taking action that leads to personal and professional growth.

Laurence Anthony is the founder of Go Further Coaching and a sought-after coach for senior leaders and executive teams who want to go further. As an ICF-PCC level coach, he blends executive coaching with high-impact training so teams lead better, communicate stronger, and execute with consistency.

He has delivered leadership and performance engagements for organizations including Google, RBC, and United Airlines, bringing practical, real-world frameworks that help leaders build trust, alignment, and performance in high-expectation environments.

Connect with Laurence on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • How high-performing individuals and teams can overcome fear and take action with confidence.
  • The difference between confidence and self-esteem, and why both matter for personal and professional growth.
  • Practical strategies for slowing down, reflecting, and making better decisions under pressure.
  • How to shift from “should” to “could” to unlock creativity, possibilities, and authentic leadership.
  • Signs it might be the right time to invest in coaching for career, relationships, or life transitions.
  • Stories and insights from coaching executives, athletes, and everyday individuals to reach their full potential.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have Laurence Anthony with Go Further Coaching. Welcome.

Laurence Anthony: It is such a pleasure. Lee. It is. It is such a pleasure. How are you?

Lee Kantor: I am doing great. I am so excited to learn about your practice. Tell us about Go Further Coaching. How are you serving folks?

Laurence Anthony: Well, that’s such a great question. It’s such an honor to be on. That’s an interesting question because the best way to say it is that my purpose is changing lives professionally and personally, and that’s the work that I get to do every single day. I work with individuals, top performers, athletes, executives, CEOs, leaders, and taking them from where they are to where they want to be. These are sometimes elite, high performing individuals and teams. Sometimes these are folks who are looking to get to the next level, or who are looking to kind of expand their horizons or maybe just make a big change in their lives.

Lee Kantor: So what is your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Laurence Anthony: Great question. So I got involved with this line of work. And you know, it’s funny, I don’t even consider it to be a job, right? This is who I am and it’s the best way to answer it is I grew up working with individuals who were at the top of their game. I’ve done everything but flown a plane. I have run two restaurants in New York, got best restaurant in the country. I used to be in film and TV, had a movie that opened number one in the world, but I wasn’t really fulfilled or luxury real estate in New York. I’d done a bunch, but I wasn’t finding my fulfillment. I didn’t find my purpose. And so for me, the purpose became, let’s look back in the past. What is the evidence that I have to kind of give me a signal as to what I enjoy doing. When I looked at the past, when I looked at the things that I had done, there was always a linear story and a through line of working with individuals, wanting folks to kind of be at their best potential to maximize their potential and to help and serve. I tell everyone I’m a servant. I get to serve great performers, great leaders. That’s what I’ve done throughout it. And I would have folks, CEOs, executives, leaders, athletes ask me, Laurence, what do you think about this? You know, what are you what’s your what’s your insight? What’s your take on this? And I said, well, I’m always in that position and I always find myself wanting to give unsolicited advice or unsolicited guidance anyway, so there’s something here. And I said, you know what? I think I’m a coach. I’ve always loved motivating people. I’ve always loved listening to people, and I’ve always loved seeing people win, which is ultimately at the core of what I do is I get to see teams and individuals win.

Lee Kantor: So did you have kind of a mentor or some sort of a philosophy template like, or does this just stuff that you’ve learned over time and you’ve kind of created a coaching, um, methodology around?

Laurence Anthony: It’s a great question, you know, and that’s a question that a lot of folks ask me. Like, you know, how did you, how did you get involved with this? And I didn’t have a mentor at all. Uh, my mentor, I tell everyone was life. You know, a lot of my mentorships came from experiences, came from some tough challenges, but also some great wins and successes. So my mentors were all those people around me. My mentors were my mom, my grandparents, uh, my successful friends, my friends who maybe weren’t quote unquote successful, but trying to get to that level. My mentors were just life and all the different experiences. I think that’s why it’s really important that I list all the things that I’ve been a part of is because a lot of those experiences allowed me to show up the way that I am now. So working in restaurants taught me how to interact with different personalities, how to interact with different people. Working in luxury real estate in New York taught me how to sell, how to be around high performing individuals, people who are absolutely demanding the best not just of their home, but life. Working in a consulting and coaching firm for eight and a half years taught me to have presence, how to be in a room full of people, whether it’s one person I’m interacting with or over 150, 200, which I’ve been in. So all those kind of experiences served as mentors for me in terms of what I was able to do. So by the time that I left my consulting firm and I started my own coaching firm, I had already had 15 plus years of experience and mentorship.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re working with your clients, how do you help them when they’re in a world like you mentioned earlier, that you started or, or at least some part of your career was involved in show business and acting in that world. There’s a lot of, um, pick me kind of mentality where you’re you and the people who hire you are picking you amongst a pile of other people that are kind of like you. How do you, um, move a person from this pick me mentality to I have more agency and I can, I have more control over some elements of these things.

Laurence Anthony: It’s a great question. And one of the things that comes up, you know, what I’m really hearing from you is, you know, what I’m taking from that question is how you believe in yourself. And you know, when you’re working in film and TV, as I was, and I was very fortunate that, you know, when I got into TV and film, you know, I booked auditions my first year, you know, I started saw one of the saw movies, a horror franchise, and the movie opened up one in the world on my birthday. You know, I was on Degrassi with with Drake. I did 30 Rock, right? And so I had had some relatively early success early in my career. And what got me to leave the arts from a film and TV standpoint was exactly what you’re talking about. This idea of pick me. I couldn’t wrap my head around walking into an audition and letting other folks determine my fate, and letting other folks determine essentially, my capability or my worth. And it just didn’t sit right for me. And so for me, I said, well, I know what I’m worth. I know how I can perform it. A lot of it is very subjective, right? A lot of it is whether the cast and director, director or producer woke up one day and said, oh, you know, this person’s got it, or I like this person.

Laurence Anthony: It was just too much out of my control. And as someone who is somewhat of, of a control freak while also understanding that we don’t really have much control. I said, no, I want to be the master of my own fate, and I want to be the one who’s going to be the decision maker in the ways that I move. And I said, well, that’s risky, but it’s going to have to pay off because I’m going to choose that. And I just, I just didn’t, I couldn’t wrap my head around waiting for someone to choose me. So I ended up choosing myself. I ended up choosing my path. I ended up choosing the, you know, the things that I believe in. And that’s a gamble and that’s a risk. But I’m also someone who is not risk averse. I tell everyone I’m like, Captain Kirk, I am ready to adventure and check out some new planet. So for me, it was just a matter of betting on myself.

Lee Kantor: Now, since you’re right now dealing with a lot of, uh, high level executives, obviously they also decided to to bet on themselves. Um, how do you kind of advise the person who isn’t there yet but aspires to be? How do they get the confidence to believe in themselves and bet on themselves rather than just kind of going along for the ride?

Laurence Anthony: You know, Lee, in my experience and in my profession as a coach, I see a number of individuals and the individuals to me that I get the luxury of speaking to and working with and coaching are the ones who say, there’s something inside me. There’s a little voice that I want to listen to. Now, I genuinely think we all have that. And for some people, they don’t want to listen to that voice. And that’s absolutely okay. Some people want security, want stability. Um, and some folks are just very fine being comfortable, not taking a risk. And I do not judge that whatsoever because it takes all shapes and sizes. The, the coach in me gets to work with people who say, okay, maybe I have been stable, but there’s been a voice inside me calling me to do something else. Or maybe I have been on this path, but maybe it’s not my path. Maybe I thought I wanted this, but I actually don’t. And for me, it’s. I tell everyone I’m kind of like Rafiki from The Lion King. My job is to help you remember who you are. My job is to help. My job is to help. You kind of listen to that inner voice and plant that seed and just try to give a little bit of space for that inner voice to be a little bit louder and to be a little bit more authentic, a little bit true.

Lee Kantor: So do you think that it’s fear that’s holding these people back? Like what is where, what is the thing that, um, because I’m with you and I’ve always been the one like you, I’m willing to bet on myself because I have a lot of confidence in myself, but a lot of folks out there just are kind of, I don’t know, it’s a belief of security, which I don’t think is real. I think that’s kind of a rationalization. But how do you move them to believe in themselves enough to invest in themselves and to take the action that is needed, not just the, you know, to turn a dream into a reality. Even though it may not go as planned, it will definitely go somewhere.

Laurence Anthony: You hit the word on the head. It’s my favorite four letter F word. Li it’s fear and we all encounter it. We all experience it. Look, you know, fear is such an interesting element. I’m fascinated by fear because fear can serve as a paralyzer or it can serve as a motivator. And for many individuals, fear serves as a paralyzer. Many folks encounter fear and say, oh my gosh, this is too much. This mountain is too big. I can’t scale it. What happens if I fail? Which is a fair thought. The interesting thing with fear is that we cannot be fearless. It is impossible to be fearless. What I coach a number of individuals and teams of successful brands companies on is. Since you can’t be fearless. The goal is how to reduce fear. How to fear less in order to go further. That is essentially what I am invested in doing. That is one of my life purposes, is how do we get folks to confront their fear? Because we all have it personally. Professionally, either fear from our past experiences that we’ve had to encounter. And so it’s looking at that fear confronting and saying, I’m going to do it scared anyway. Okay, yeah, this is a little scary, but I’m going to step into that job. I’m going to go for that promotion. I’m going to maybe try that new career. I’m going to step into that relationship. It is acknowledging the fear and going beyond that. That’s not for everyone. And that’s absolutely okay. But I do think all of us could benefit from acknowledging the truth. I’m a little scared about this or I’m a little worried. Okay, now what do I do? What could I do with it now?

Lee Kantor: How do you coach folks that are, you know, That moment of decision of should I pursue this or that? They can rationalize not making a move for ways that seem logical, but maybe it’s fear that’s holding them back. Like how do they even have the self-awareness? Or how do you help them get the self-awareness to look at that kind of, um, point of inflection in a way that, hey, you think you’re being, uh, prudent here, but you’re really being fearful.

Laurence Anthony: Well, you really were you really talking about is the self-awareness and having that moment and what I do, what I specialize in, one of the things is getting you to slow down. Lee. We work and operate and live in such a fast paced life, and it’s only getting faster. The goal is how to slow things down. If you think about, think about some of the great athletes. You think about what they all say whenever they’re either doing well in a game or a match, or maybe when it’s over and they’re being interviewed. Often you’ll hear them say the game just slowed down or time seems to slow down. Now, we can’t scientifically slow things down and slow time down, but what we can do is slow ourselves down and we can check in with ourselves and regulate ourselves and start to ask questions. Okay, what am I experiencing? What am I feeling? What could I do next? By slowing things down, it allows us to do a number of things. It allows us to confront fear, acknowledge that it exists, and then say, okay, what do I want to do about it? By slowing things down, the second thing that it does, it allows us to think about the next action that we want to take and to either mitigate the risk or to kind of just evaluate, all right, I know this is going to be a challenge yet how am I going to embrace this challenge? The problem becomes we don’t slow things down. And so then we end up reacting. And I always tell everyone, it’s not how you act, it’s how you react. And the best way to control your reaction is by slowing things down, giving yourself time to pause and think and asking, okay, how do I want to react to this situation, this circumstance? What do I want to do next?

Lee Kantor: Now, I read a book, um, that says kind of humanity lives in that space between stimulus and response. Uh, that’s your choice. That’s where you can make a decision. Um, but when there’s fear involved or you’re, you’re kind of not really living towards your true, true north or your values and you’re in a situation where you’re making a, a bad decision or a self-destructive decision. How do you help your clients kind of take that moment that you describe? Are there kind of exercises or there’s tools because everyone has that point where it’s like, okay, right here, this is I have to choose, am I going to go down this road where this does not. You know this. Maybe this doesn’t look or feel right, but it seems like fun or whatever the rationalization is. Or do I make maybe a harder decision to say, you know what? Not tonight. I’m not going to do this behavior. How do you help them in that in that moment of, um, you know, I have to make a call and I don’t want to do something that might feel fun or, um, good today, but may not really help me get to the outcome I ultimately desire. Whatever my values are true, North is.

Laurence Anthony: Yeah. And that is, that is a challenge that a number of my clients experience, right? A number of my clients who I work with will ask, okay, or I’ll ask them rather, I’ll ask my clients, where do you see yourself? Now, that’s not where do you see yourself in five years? I don’t, I don’t, you know, I don’t care about that as much. But I asked, what version of yourself do you want to live with? And this is the important question because you’re asking, okay, how do I decide essentially in a moment, how do I make a decision within that moment to propel me forward? Now that could be anything as small as working out. It’s 6 a.m., 7 a.m., and you’re torn. I don’t really want to get up in the morning and and work out. It’s cold. But then you ask yourself, okay, what version of myself am I working out for? And am I working out for the version of myself that I want to be better? Am I work out for that version of myself where you know what, I kind of want to live a little bit longer.

Laurence Anthony: I want to have a healthy life. So the commitment isn’t necessarily to the version of you. Now, it’s a commitment that you’re making to the version of yourself in the future. So what that means is asking, what kind of individual do I want to be? And I think when we ask that, it becomes a lot clearer because then essentially we’ve got either two paths and sometimes more than two paths, and you get to explore, okay, play the tape forward. If I go down path A, this is what is going to happen. How comfortable am I going down path A? If I’m not, then that answer is right there. Then it’s path B. What about path B excites me. What about path B? Even though it might be challenging? What about path B is calling to me? And is that the kind of world that I want to live in? Do I want to pursue that path to get to the end destination? Because both of those paths are going to lead to a destination. The question becomes, which destination are you going to be comfortable living in?

Lee Kantor: Now, who is kind of the ideal client for you? What type of organization or what type of individual, um, is kind of your perfect fit client?

Laurence Anthony: You’re asking who is my ideal client? Who is a perfect fit? You know, that’s an easy answer. Anyone who is looking to no pun intended, go further. I’ll tell you this. I can’t work with individuals who have no desire to ask questions or no desire to think. What could I do? If you are not someone who is looking to either improve your life, improve your relationship, improve, improve your career, or even just be curious. I work with curious individuals and that’s what lights me up. I want to work with people who are curious now. Don’t get me wrong, some folks are stuck. Some folks are trying to figure it out. And that’s also where I step in. But I work with individuals who at least there’s a strong desire, or at least even a tiny, tiny voice that says, I want more. I want to be better. I want to live, lead, and love better. And if you’ve got that, I can work with you. Some of my clients are fortune 100 companies. I coach folks at United Airlines, right? I’m the person who’s responsible for going in to teams within one of the top airlines in the country to coach their teams. I am the person responsible. I just gave a talk at Google. So I’m working with top elite performers and executives, but I also work with individuals who are trying to find their way. And for me, that’s what lights me up, is working with people who are maybe unsure of what their next step is, or are going through a life transition or career transition. And that’s where I get fuel, is how I can help navigate that, because I think it’s a little challenging and all of us experience that. So if you can do it with someone who is seasoned, who’s got the expertise, who’s been trained as I am, then it becomes an enjoyable journey. That journey becomes a lot less enjoyable when we’re doing it on our own, and we’re somehow stumbling around in the dark.

Lee Kantor: Now, what are some symptoms or signals for a person listening right now that, hey, maybe I should get in touch with Laurence and his team? What what’s happening right now for me that maybe I’m misinterpreting or I’m not seeing as, hey, this is a time, this is a perfect time for me to start talking to a coach.

Laurence Anthony: Yeah. I think if you ask yourself a few questions, I think the ideal questions you want to ask yourself. If you think about working with a coach, are am I satisfied with who I am right now? Or is there something more. Do I find myself questioning my career choice? Do I find myself questioning my leadership style? Am I thinking, you know what? Maybe I want to be a better leader. Maybe I want to have a better communication, uh, funnel with my team. Maybe I want to listen more. Maybe I find that I’ve heard some feedback that might sound tough to hear, but there might be a kernel of truth. Maybe I want to change my life. And I think a lot of us have that mirror in our room where we go into that room and we look in the mirror, and that’s the one place we can be truthful with ourselves. And if you can go into that room and look in that mirror and ask yourself, am I happy with where I am right now? Am I happy in the position I’m in? I’m happy in the relationship I’m in? Do I think I could be better? Even just start with that. Do I think it. Or I could be better. Then that’s an amazing place to start with me as a coach.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share? Maybe. Um, don’t name their names, but maybe share. Uh. A person came to you with a challenge, and you were able to help them get to a new level and maybe surprise you and themselves.

Laurence Anthony: I’m doing that every day of my life, working with individuals and teams who constantly surprise me in terms of their capabilities and possibly surprise me in their capacity for change. And, you know, there’s so many different stories. I’ll tell you this one I had, I had an individual who came to me, it was a very successful individual. Um, works in, in the military. God bless. And came to me and this, this man has extreme high confidence. You have to have high confidence to be able to perform at some of the highest levels in our armed forces. And he said, you know, I know I can fly, I know I can, you know, be in the military, I know I can lead my troops, I know I can do all this, but I, I’m unsure about some areas of my life. I’m unsure about, you know, how I kind of move forward, right? And so it was a confidence issue. It was a confidence issue. And I kind of boil things down to confidence and self-esteem. And you have individuals who have very high confidence and sometimes low self-esteem, and you have individuals who have very high self-esteem and sometimes low confidence. I work with both of those and with this particular individual, again, who’s just massively amazing and successful, just so much integrity. One of the works that we needed to kind of invest in was how to increase his confidence, not necessarily in his profession, but in his personal life, because the two go hand in hand. And to see that that transition, to see that shift, you know, was just one of the best experiences of my life. Because not only am I serving, which I get a lot of joy out of, but I’m serving someone who is serving his country and that is beyond rewarding.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there any kind of actionable advice you can give a leader? Right now, they can do today that would make them more effective?

Laurence Anthony: Absolutely. Except one thing. I never give advice and I tell every single one of my clients, teams, individuals, brands, I don’t give advice. And here’s why. That’s a two part answer. I’m going to give you both answers. One, if I give advice to a client or a team or company, and if that client team or company succeeds, then that victory is not theirs. It becomes my victory. So that’s why I don’t give advice. However, if I give them advice and it doesn’t pan out, then that loss they don’t own either. It becomes. Laurence gave us bad advice. Ultimately, my job. My purpose is to empower individuals and teams To make their decisions and to feel confident and to step forward with conviction. I’m not saying step forward with perfection, but with conviction and be able to own their wins. And sometimes when things don’t work out and know that I’m also there to support them across the board, win, lose or not. That’s the first part. The second part is, since I don’t give advice, I give frameworks, I give lessons, I give stories, and I think one of the best things I can say to anyone is move from should to could. I talk about this all the time. If you think about it, all of us are really just little children in grown up bodies. And why do we love kids? We love kids and we love seeing kids play and use their imagination because anything is possible.

Laurence Anthony: Something happens when we become older. We stop thinking anything is possible and we stop living in. What could I do? What could this look like? Imagination. Imagination. And we start moving into what should I do? What do I have to do? What do I need to do now? Of course, responsibilities happen and life happens where we’ve got to. We’ve got to step into those roles and we’ve. And there’s things that we’re much more responsible for. But that balance is important is. I think a lot of us spend a lot of time and should need and have, which all it does is create pressure and we don’t spend as much time and could. And what’s possible and what do I really want? So I would encourage any single leader, any single individual, any single team listening to this to think about what you could do. What could it look like? How could you lead better? How could you love better? How could you live better? Instead of what do I have to do? Have to ensure all that does is create pressure and force us into roles that we don’t necessarily love, or could allows us to maybe step into roles that we feel are much more authentic to who we are.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Laurence Anthony: Oh, well, they’ll speak to me directly. I’ve got a phenomenal team who I am beyond grateful for. There’s no way that I get anywhere, uh, where I am now without my team. None of us do it alone, which is the absolute truth. But if folks want to reach out, they can get us on our website, which is www.gofurther.com. We’re on Instagram at Go Further as well. And of course, a lot of our clients, a lot of our friends, a lot of individuals who look for us can find us on LinkedIn. I’m at Laurence Anthony.

Lee Kantor: Well, Laurence, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Laurence Anthony: Uh, Lee, thank you for the time. Thank you for the great questions and thanks for the conversation. It’s a pleasure.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Tagged With: Go Further Coaching, Laurence Anthony

Inside the Business Sale: Valuation, Exit Planning, and Market Trends with Gregory Kovsky

April 7, 2026 by Jacob Lapera

High Velocity Radio
High Velocity Radio
Inside the Business Sale: Valuation, Exit Planning, and Market Trends with Gregory Kovsky
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In this episode of High Velocity Radio, Lee speaks with Gregory Kovsky, President and CEO of International Business Associates, shares insights from over three decades of helping entrepreneurs sell their companies. He explains how business brokerage works, why accurate valuation and preparation are critical, and what factors influence successful deals. Kovsky also highlights current opportunities in the market, the role of AI and economic shifts in entrepreneurship, and practical advice for business owners planning their exit.

Gregory Kovsky is the President & CEO of International Business Associates (IBA), the Pacific Northwest’s oldest and largest business brokerage firm, established in 1975.

With over 30 years of experience as a mergers & acquisitions intermediary, he has personally facilitated over 300 transactions involving privately held companies and family businesses across multiple states. His expertise spans manufacturing, distribution, technology, marine, automotive, and service industries, with transactions typically ranging from $1-30 million in enterprise value.

As both a seasoned entrepreneur and business sale expert, he purchased IBA in 2000 and has grown it into a regional leader with 10 offices across Washington and Oregon, completing over 4,400 transactions in the company’s 50-year history. He combines his deep transactional experience with comprehensive real estate expertise, holding broker licenses for over 30 years.

He is also a published author, seminar speaker, and advocate for entrepreneurship, operating on a unique work-life balance philosophy of working 45 weeks per year while maintaining a family-first approach to business.

Connect with Gregory on LinkedIn and Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • How business brokerage firms help owners sell privately held companies
  • The key factors that determine a business’s true market value
  • Why most businesses fail to sell—and how to avoid those mistakes
  • The step-by-step process of selling a business and negotiating deals
  • How financing, attorneys, and due diligence influence transactions
  • Practical steps owners should take to prepare for a successful exit
  • Current market trends creating opportunities for entrepreneurs
  • Real stories of founders turning small startups into valuable businesses

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for High Velocity Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of High Velocity Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have the president and CEO with the Pacific Northwest premier Business Brokerage Firm since 1975, International Business Associates, we have Gregory Kovsky. Welcome.

Gregory Kovsky: Thank you. It’s an honor to be here.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn about your practice. Tell us about IBA. How are you serving folks?

Gregory Kovsky: Certainly, as you mentioned, IBA is the oldest and largest business brokerage firm in the Pacific Northwest. We’ve been in business since 1975, ten offices throughout Oregon and Washington. We serve the seller side of transactions and try to facilitate sales of privately held companies, family owned businesses with knowledge, experience, skill, best practices and integrity.

Lee Kantor: So what’s your backstory? How’d you get involved in this line of work?

Gregory Kovsky: Great question. So my family was a customer of IBA before I joined the firm. My father was a veterinarian in Portland, Oregon, and in the 1980s, he decided he didn’t want to be a practicing veterinarian anymore. He wanted more control of his life. He was frustrated. If he needed to do an emergency caesarean section, delivering puppies, which is a real thing, or a dog gets hit by a car and it would disrupt his life. So he hired IBA to sell his veterinary hospital in real estate. He was impressed with them in the sale, went on and worked for Hill’s pet products science, diet. Dog food. Teaching pet nutrition before it was a thing nationwide. So he still was a veterinarian, but not having his life influenced by the unforeseen occurring. And I left the northwest, went to the University of Texas down in Austin, studied investment finance and accounting, pursued my first career, and it took me to Kansas City. And I was sitting in Kansas City and had an epiphany moment where I missed the mountains and oceans of the Pacific Northwest and decided I didn’t want to build my life in the Midwest and so returned to the northwest. Didn’t know what I wanted to do as the next chapter. And my father said, I think you’d be good at selling businesses.

Gregory Kovsky: You’re a salesman by personality. You’ve got the accounting and finance background academically. Let me introduce you to the founder of the firm, Bill Osofsky. So I met with him. It intrigued me. I joined had very strong success in two industries that do not even exist today. When you talk about the speed of entrepreneurship, one beating travel agencies, before Expedia, they used to be big chains and the other ISPs, the old dial up internet service providers. And they used to be five 10,000 user networks where today it’s your cell phone company or Comcast or limited providers. And that was a classic big fish eating small fish marketplace. And in 2000, the founder came to me said, I want to retire and I’d like to sell you the company. I was already managing the Bellevue office for IBA, which is our Washington State head of the pyramid. And I was a bit of a logical choice. We had an old guard of brokers, many approaching retirement, some with kids in college, and he didn’t want to disrupt the team he had built and they had mentored me. They liked me. I was endorsed internally, took over the helm in And 26 years later, I’m still running the show.

Lee Kantor: So now what is kind of a day in the life look like for you?

Gregory Kovsky: Well, as the executive head of IBA, about 70% of my time is spent executive management, financial management, marketing management, online technology oversight, um, and then sales management and my 20 M&A intermediaries spread throughout the region doing transactions. And then I still like to lace up the boots and get on the pitch. And so about 30% of my time is still doing transactions. I’ve personally done over 300 transactions, including 2 in 2026.

Lee Kantor: So do you specialize in any industry or is this kind of industry agnostic? Your work.

Gregory Kovsky: Ida, actually serves 20 different industry sectors. We are well known in construction, manufacturing, technology. Education, hospitality, a broad spectrum of industries. Personally, I like the old economy. I do a fair amount of industrial manufacturing type companies myself. That’s that’s my favorite pond to swim in.

Lee Kantor: Now, when you’re selling your business or most of the business you sell, do they have kind of like a real estate component or an equipment component? Or can they be like service industry where it’s more kind of along the lines of your father with, you know, there may not be a lot of stuff, but there’s a lot of happy clients.

Gregory Kovsky: Excellent question. So every one of my brokers is licensed to sell real estate in one or more states. So we are a little bit unique as a mergers and acquisition firm in that we do have the ability to sell both the business and real estate asset classes in one representation package. I would say about 25% of our deals will have real estate involved, but the remainder will generally have leases. And in Washington and Oregon, you need to have a real estate license to negotiate or assign facility leases. So it’s it’s one of the many domains we bring expertise in. Um, we do sell virtual companies, SaaS platforms, education platforms. One of the education platforms we sold was actually based in New York and was an equivalent to Khan Academy, providing education for school districts to supplement what was occurring in the classroom. And they hired us because we’re at the 50 yard line in terms of technology. Being in Seattle with Microsoft and Amazon in Portland with Intel. So we know the technology space very well and have the ability to properly value create a marketplace and sell technology and other service type businesses that don’t have the substantial assets, though. You know, on the other side, we just sold an aerospace manufacturing company that had the Navy and had Boeing as customers. And in that case, the equipment infrastructure was quite large.

Lee Kantor: So what, um, when you’re dealing with a business owner, I’m sure that some of it, if not a lot of it is kind of emotional. They might have an idea of the value of their business based on look, I’ve lived it for 30 years. Um, how do you have that valuation conversation with them? Because I would imagine a lot of the times you’re going to give them a number that is not the number they have in their head.

Gregory Kovsky: 100% true. So we are very good at valuation. We generally sell our companies for within 10% of where we went to market. And it can be plus or minus minus because we will try for the high end of the range for our clients. Plus, because we often create competitive market dynamics, which will take the price higher based on supply and demand issues. We work on a business model that’s 100% paid on performance at IBA. So no matter if a business sells for six, 7 or 8 figures, we don’t charge our clients a penny until they get paid and the transaction closes. So we have a vested interest in being honest with them because we do this full time for a living. We’ve sold as a firm over 4400 companies. We get paid on performance, so we have an incentive to get the maximum value possible. But we actually reject two out of three companies that come to us because if they’re not realistic on value, we will work on other projects. I would rather go with my wife and two dogs on a walk, rather than work on a project that doesn’t sell. But to finish on your question, which was a very good one, part of our education is who we need to sell the price to. We start selling it to the buyer.

Gregory Kovsky: They are actually the easiest. They’ve got emotion. They’re mentally engaged. Then they hand off the package to their CPA or CFO. That individual is not emotional, but we need to get a thumbs up from them that they endorse the purchase for their client. Then it gets handed off to the attorney, and the attorney is not as focused on dollars as in liability mitigation. So we gotta convince the buyer of the business and their legal counsel that the risk is acceptable for the price. If we’re selling a manufacturer of pacemakers, that’s a high risk liability. If they have product defects, people die. So that’s a big legal issue. If we’re selling a chain of eight Arby’s, which I have done, what is the real damage risk? A bad sandwich, they come back and you give them another sandwich. So liability issues in fast food are not nearly the same. So we got to sell it to the attorneys. And then finally there’s an old saying. He who has the gold makes the rules. We’ve got to sell it to the bank or investors. And they’re looking at their return on investment and the safety of their investment. So it’s a multiple step sale process. And personally, I’m never going to start a process. I don’t think I can win.

Lee Kantor: So now what percentage of businesses and business owners actually exit with a sale? Is it is it 100 for 100 or is it a much lower number?

Gregory Kovsky: Well, for us it’s usually 80 to 90% of our engagements end in a sale. Nationally, it’s only 15 one 5% of businesses that sell. And let me talk about both of those briefly. So why are businesses not selling nationally? First thing is they’re failing business models. People have put their life savings into starting up a business. They never get to critical velocity and they’re trying to find a successor. But if it’s failing, there’s not a lot of buyers. Secondly is they are unrealistic on value. It can’t get financed by saying SBA loan. Third, there are so many moving pieces in a sale. They don’t know what they’re doing. Be it a business broker who’s out of their industry expertise, size, expertise, element in terms of knowledge and experience and skill. Who may give the college try but isn’t able to end in victory. On the IBA side, why we fail is usually one of three elements. Either our client or the buyer are not negotiating in good faith, and we deliver five offers to our client, and they always find something wrong with the potential buyer, or a buyer gets inside the business and determines something that we didn’t know about it. The seller hasn’t disclosed a material fact that should have been known, and the deal fails, or attorneys end up creating confrontation and selling fear and cooler heads don’t prevail. By the entrepreneurs to get the deal done so those can kill transactions as well as something changes in the business model. And let’s say they had a big customer who was 30% of their sales and they lose that customer. Well, now that business is a lot less attractive on the market.

Lee Kantor: Now when a sale occurs, is it typically okay, here’s a check for the amount we discussed or is this something that’s um, I’m going to pay you over time?

Gregory Kovsky: Great question. So there are multiple components that can go in business sales every seller always wants as much cash as they can in a transaction. And we frequently get to all cash transactions. I one of the transactions, I closed a industrial distribution company that closed March 31st was an all cash transaction. So those do occur. But you have to ask, why do buyers want seller financing or an escrow holdback. And usually it gets back to this issue of liability. So if something comes out of the woodwork that wasn’t disclosed in the seller’s disappeared to the Cook Islands and is unavailable to respond. If you had a seller note or you had an escrow holdback if there is Manufacture defects, warranty issues, and an Hvac company where you need to go back and do repairs on installations. The seller was paid for, but the buyer needs to maintain the reputation of the company and wants to satisfy that customer and not have negative Google reviews and other detrimental things to the business they just bought. If the seller doesn’t own what is reasonable from their time at the helm on the ship, it is a logical approach to have the seller have a vested interest in a smooth transition and tying off loose ends, that they’re not going to compete with them post-sale. That if they say they’re going to work six months on a transition of ownership, that they’re not gone three days after the sale fishing and not supportive. So that is often why you have an escrow holdback or a promissory note. You also can have a variable piece where it’s called an earnout or retained equity, where maybe there’s customer concentration, as I mentioned before.

Gregory Kovsky: And the seller says, we’ve been doing business with this customer for 20 years. Yes, they’re 30% of our sales, but they need us. They’re not going anywhere else. And the buyer says, I believe you. So you reach an agreement where based on that retention of that customer, there’s a variable piece of the sale that will be paid after a year or two based on their retention. Or maybe a business is growing on a hockey stick, or is just had an off year and we need to normalize revenue because the buyer really cares about what it does after the sale, not what it did before the sale. And so you may put a plug number in saying, as long as this business does 7 million in revenue, we’re all good on the price. But if it does 8 million, I will pay you more. And if it does 6 million, there will be a discount that occurs in a variable piece. Can account for that. Finally, sometimes we’re building collaborative projects where a private equity firm will buy a company. The seller will retain an equity position, maybe even stay on as the president and CEO and knows that another transaction will occur 3 to 7 years on the horizon. And the second bite of the apple can be greater than the first, because maybe we sold it with a four multiple and because it now sells as a bigger entity with stronger EBITDA. It sells at a six multiple. So they grow with the company and get a second paycheck.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there any advice you could give? Say somebody who owns a service business, what should they be doing in order to exit? Um, effectively? And how soon should they be planning for their exit? And I know a lot of people say you should be planning right when you started, but if they’re in their situation right now, what is kind of a window to prepare and what are some of those kind of things they should be doing today to get the best exit for themselves in a few years?

Gregory Kovsky: We are coming up on Tax Day, April 15th, and the single most important document in a business sale is the tax return. So you want to have a transparent tax return for the year prior to your sale. So stop running personal expenses through that. Um, do what’s necessary to detail out the car. So its performance is at its highest level. The year after that tax return when you sell. So the first thing is just get your financial house in order. And now is actually a good time to do that because you have runway on 2026. The next thing is work on your business, not in your business. The more layered management you have, the better. If you can go on vacation in, the business will continue to run well. If you can lose one of your engineers or a key salesman in the business continues on without issue. Those add value. And I always say treat it also like you’re running the last two miles of a marathon kick. Make it perform as high as you can because growth will increase your value and make the business look more attractive on the market. Decline will hurt you in valuation because buyers often play Chicken Little, and if you’re down 5% this year, they’ll extrapolate out is it going to be 10% next year where if you’re growing 5%, they may not believe it can do more than 5%, but you have documented proof that even in present economic conditions, the business is thriving.

Lee Kantor: Now, when, um, you’re working with some the wide variety of people you’ve worked with in the past, is there a story you can share about a successful sale that may be exceeded the expectations of the person who sold and maybe was rewarding for you in your career?

Gregory Kovsky: Certainly I’ve had numerous sales. As I said, I’ve done over 300. And to me, honestly, the most basic joy I get in my team gets on every sale is that you are helping people monetize their efforts that resulted in them living the American Dream and creating something, building something, and then being able to exit. You can’t sell a job. You can sell a business. Um, one of the recent sales I did that closed in January, which was very rewarding for me was a company that fabricated countertops. They fabricated them out of granite, quartz, other products, marble. And they had started as two brothers in essentially a garage installing countertops for other people. Then they started their own shop in the back of another business, um, with a rail saw, um, fabricating their own and grew to a company that was doing approximately eight figures in revenue with automated state of the art equipment. Um, an installation team that was second to none. A beautiful showroom. And they had lived the American dream as first generation immigrants who came here with nothing and through hard work, through pursuit of excellence, Achieved a level of success that, frankly, is not available in many other countries in the world.

Lee Kantor: Yeah, that must have been pretty rewarding. Um, when that closed.

Gregory Kovsky: It was I mean, it was just wonderful people. I make many friends through transactions. I love their stories, the ingenuity of different business owners. Another very memorable, rewarding story which resulted in a friendship was a lady named Anne Bailey, who. Was an environmental chemistry professor who decided she wanted to be entrepreneurial and. So she created a company that audited environmental chemistry data. So organizations like NOAA, before they would publish a study, would hand over the data almost like a to a CPA to verify the data. This is a service company, like you talked about, with just some computers and desks and a team of scientists who would review the data and then endorse it before it was published. And interestingly, in that industry, there were firms like this that represented the corporate side and ones that represented more government pseudo government. And this is a few years back, but I was talking to her at length about The, um, the deep horizon spill in the Gulf of Mexico and how she would do studies on the impact of that spill on fish, shrimp, birds, the environment and how the oil companies would publish their own reports saying this is an organic material with limited negative impact. So it was an interesting service company, and it was a wonderful situation of someone taking their unique knowledge, experience and skill and creating a private sector opportunity that was highly valued.

Lee Kantor: Are there certain industries right now or niches that are are like hot, or is there a trendy kind of, um, opportunity now for an entrepreneur out there. I know that periodically, um, some private equity firms start rolling up, like you mentioned, some smaller entities. Is there something like that going on that, um, our listeners might be able to take advantage of and maybe consider selling, you know, now because you’re, you’re kind of hitting while the iron’s hot.

Gregory Kovsky: Well, first I’ll start by saying this is perhaps the most robust buyer market that I’ve seen in 32 years. There is a deep, deep pond of buyers for sellers to engage with, ranging from private equity to people being laid off in the tech industry who are problem solving through that experience, by acquiring businesses. So I think one of the big opportunities that exist right now is to take businesses and apply benefits of AI and technology to take them to the next level. Um, people look at the layoff of computer programmers and it, it’s horrible. If you were at a tech company and got laid off. But on the other side, I think kind of like website developers, those computer programmers are now going to be available using AI tools to smaller and smaller businesses who then can create custom solutions to take advantage of where the economy is going. And I’ll give you an example. I listened recently to a speech by one of the founders of Service Titan. And Service Titan is the dominant project management software in the service trade. So plumbing, electrical, Hvac, and he was talking about how they are bringing AI tools to their customers. So if you’re replacing a furnace in a development that was built 20 years ago, now you have the ability to market to all of those people in that neighborhood who may be coming up with furnace replacements. And then with AI, look at what other developments were done by that builder in the same era in your service area, knowing that the lifespan of the furnaces they put in, which are builder grade. We also see it with roofing, have a shorter lifespan than the reroof someone would put on themselves because they don’t want to have to replace it in 1015 years.

Lee Kantor: Man, it’s, uh, it’s a lot of times when you have kind of this kind of economic chaos, it really does open up opportunities for people. Um, it doesn’t have to be like a woe is me situation. It could be a great opportunity for folks who want to go that entrepreneurial path.

Gregory Kovsky: Now, 100%. And I also say watch trends. I actually watch my kids to understand younger trends. And one that I observed is when they were very young, ice cream was popular as a frozen dessert. Then we went through a stage where they loved the frozen yogurt with toppings the mint cheese, yogurt, land chains, and they had no interest in, like, the Baskin-Robbins offering. Then it has cycled back, at least in the northwest, to more premium ice cream brands like Salt and Straw and Molly Moon’s and those type of products in this region and where the herd goes. Come the entrepreneurial opportunity. One thing we’re seeing right now is a proliferation of chicken places, be it Raising Cane’s or Dave’s hot chicken. And kind of a gravitation away from burgers, partly because it is more expensive right now is a product. Well, I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to guess that the Empire will strike back in, you know, in 2030. It won’t be chicken sandwiches. It’ll be burgers again.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Um, history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes.

Gregory Kovsky: Yeah, exactly. So I, I love those type of trends. And if you’re an early adopter of those trends, you can do very well as an entrepreneur. Just be buying as observant. As I said, my kids are now 20 and 23, but I use them as my test. Where did they want to eat? What products were they buying? You know, no, none of their peers have any other, um, phone than an apple. I makes me recognize that. You know, when I look at AI and I tend to think about things. The secret of AI may very well be who people are engaging with as a platform from their Apple devices. It may not be the best product. It may be the gateway to AI.

Lee Kantor: So, Gregory, if somebody wants to learn more and connect with you or somebody on the team, what’s the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Gregory Kovsky: Thank you. Um, best way to reach me is through our website, which is i b a i n c.com. So IBA INC icecream boy apple ice cream nancy charlie.com. Um, you can call me at our corporate headquarters at (425) 454-3052. And we’re advocates and resources for entrepreneurs. I would encourage people to look at our blog. It’s published twice a week and has had over 200 authors covering a variety of subjects. This week, one of the articles published was by one of my brokers, who specializes in the sale of hair salons, spas, nail studios, etc. so there’s a lot of information there about buying and selling businesses and specific industries.

Lee Kantor: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Gregory Kovsky: Thank you very much. It’s been an honor and a pleasure.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on High Velocity Radio.

Tagged With: Gregory Kovsky, International Business Associates

Carrie Kemper Allen: Protecting Your Legacy—Why Estate Planning Matters More Than You Think

March 30, 2026 by angishields

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Houston Business Radio
Carrie Kemper Allen: Protecting Your Legacy—Why Estate Planning Matters More Than You Think
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Carrie-Kemper-AllenToday’s guest is Carrie Kemper Allen, estate planning and probate attorney and founder of the Law Office of Carrie Kemper Allen.

Carrie has been serving families in the Houston and Pearland area for more than 20 years, helping them navigate estate planning, wills, and probate with both expertise and compassion. With a background in business and finance from Texas A&M and a law degree from South Texas College of Law, she brings a practical, real-world approach to protecting what matters most.

I’ve actually had the privilege of working alongside Carrie since 2020, and what sets her apart is how she shows up for her clients—often meeting them in their homes, creating a space that feels comfortable and supportive during what can be very emotional conversations.

She’s deeply rooted in family, community, and service—and truly cares about helping people create peace of mind for themselves and their loved ones.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawofficecarrieallen/
Website: https://www.ckallenlaw.com/

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio is my pleasure to introduce you to today’s guest, Carrie Kemper Allen, estate planning and probate attorney and founder of the Law Office of Carrie Kemper Allen. Carrie has been serving families in the Houston and Pearland area for more than 20 years, helping them navigate estate planning, wills, and probate with both expertise and compassion. With a background in business and finance from Texas A&M and a law degree from South Texas College of Law, she brings a practical, real world approach to protecting what matters most. I’ve actually had the privilege of working alongside Carrie since 2020, and what sets her apart is how she shows up for her clients, often meeting them where they’re at, creating a space that feels comfortable and supportive during what can be a very emotional conversation. She’s deeply rooted in family, community, and service, and truly cares about helping people create peace of mind for themselves and their loved ones. Carrie, welcome to the show.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Thanks, Trisha. I’m excited to be here today.

Trisha Stetzel: I’m excited to have you on. I know sometimes it’s a little overwhelming to hear all of those beautiful things about yourself, but I wanted to make sure that people knew really who you were from where, um, where I’m coming from. And I’d love for you to tell us a little bit more about you, Carrie.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Sure. Yeah. So, um, I’m a mom. I have, uh, two boys. One of them is 20 and one of them is 17. He’s graduating from high school this year. Uh, I’ve been married for 26 years. Coming up soon. Um, I love dogs. Um, I love to travel. Um, you know that, um, and, um, I, I like my job. You know, I like what I do. It’s not always the thing people want to talk about. It’s not always the time in their life that they’re excited about, but like, it’s a good fit for me. Like, I like to be the supporter and it’s a good fit for me. So I think it’s a good I like it.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, I love that. Uh, and she adopts dogs or, uh, fosters dogs. Yeah, I do, I do.

Carrie Kemper Allen: I currently have a foster dog who’s been with us for a long time. So she’s part of the family for a while.

Trisha Stetzel: Well, and as long as you continue to call it a foster, it’s not failed. It’s not failed. That is correct. Still a foster.

Carrie Kemper Allen: And the dog trainer does say that our other dog has adopted her, not us. So technically, she is not a foster fail.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so that feels so much better. It really does.

Carrie Kemper Allen: It does.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so let’s start with the basics. Um, some people probably have their own idea of what estate planning means and what probate means. So let’s start with estate planning. Give us a little summary of what does it mean when you think about estate planning or when you engage with clients for estate planning?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Sure. So the biggest misnomer that I get from people is, well, I don’t have an estate because I don’t have a lot of money. Um, and that’s just not true. Everyone has an estate. If you own a home, if you have a car, if you have a bank account without a beneficiary on it. If you have a child. Um, everybody has well, not everybody, but most people have something in that category, right? So most people have an estate of some kind. Um, maybe you have a life insurance policy through your office or, um, you know, you’ve inherited something from, you know, a parent or a family member that’s part of your estate. And most people don’t consider those things because they hear estate and they think, oh, big picture. I have to have a lot of money to have an estate. And that’s just not true.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. So that’s very helpful. Um, as parents, should we be thinking about that? I know when our kids are younger, obviously we need to be thinking about that. What if we have grown children, children, kids that are turning 18 or even older?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Yeah, absolutely. That’s been a huge thing. Um, in the last, I would say five years. Um, and when, with, with all the HIPAA regulations and the privacy laws that we have, it is very unlikely that if someone has a child that’s over 18 and they need to help them with a medical decision if they’re in a car accident. Um, if they need to help them with banking because they’re having financial issues, something of that nature. Um, even just something as simple as, um, for, I’ll use my son as an example. Um, he takes ADHD meds and they’re controlled substance. So I couldn’t pick up his prescription at the pharmacy, um, because he’s an adult. Right. And, and I didn’t have that permission. Um, so I had to deliver his paperwork up to the, to the, to the pharmacy. Um, kind of a silly thing. But, um, I’ve had friends whose kids have been in car accidents up at college and, um, you know, they couldn’t talk to the nurse to get an update or anything like that. Um, so it’s definitely really important these days to get those medical power of attorney, um, statutory power of attorney attorney. That’s the non-medical one. So that’s the everything else document. Um, it’s really important for parents to get those two documents, um, for their children because first of all, an 18 year old doesn’t know they need them.

Carrie Kemper Allen: So we’ve got to guide them, right? Hey, I know that you don’t want me just to cut you off and throw you out. Um, you still want me to help you grow up and manage school and things? Um, what if they want you to help them pay for it? What if you’re helping them pay for school and you need to talk to the college? Um, you know, all those little things that we don’t think of as a big deal. And, and they may not really and truly, in the grand scheme of things, be a big deal, but because of privacy laws, they are a big deal. Um, so I just suggest to those parents, let’s get those kids, um, a medical power of attorney. Let’s get them a statutory durable power of attorney and let’s get them a HIPAA letter that says you can access their medical records. And then let’s explain to them why we’re doing this. This is not so mom can take over your stuff. This is not so. Dad can micromanage you. This is so if you need help. We can help you without having to jump through a bunch of legal. Whoops. Whoops.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. So estate planning something we need to go and take care of. So that if something happens to us that everything is in order and taken care of. And on top of that, some other paperwork that we need to do as our kids are aging, they turn 18 so that we can still be involved and gosh forbid you have to go pick up a prescription for them or talk to the school. You don’t have access without this paperwork. That’s so important.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Oh, and I’ve seen a couple of colleges lately who, um, have started putting out their own forms. Um, and I had a client actually call me and say, hey, I got this form from my daughter’s school. Um, it’s a medical power of attorney. They want you to sign it so that the kid can go to the medical facility on campus. Um, I mean, I thought that was a great idea. Um, because where, where’s your kid likely going to go if they’re living on campus and they get a fever or something, you know, that’s probably where they’re going or to the minute clinic. Um, so I’ve really seen a big uptake in universities and colleges doing things like that. Um, and I’m sure our friends out there will have noticed there’s all kinds of ads for that stuff online. Um, and you know, the discounted services that you can find online to do that. Um, and I have told a couple of people, you know, you’re welcome to get those, those documents online, just like you’re welcome to get them for yourself online. Um, but the issue that I see as a, as an attorney on the back side of that is people don’t understand what they’re signing and they have questions.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Okay. The that form, it can’t explain that to you and the form doesn’t also also doesn’t know all the nuances with your family situation. Um, so I always suggest to people, yes, you’re welcome to do that. And sometimes in a pinch, those are really the only option you have. Right? Um, but if you can, it’s always good to sit down with a professional, whether it’s me or any other, you know, legal professional who can explain to you why you need the document, what permissions it gives, how you can limit it or make it more broad. Um, because those are things that, that, that’s why we’re here, right? To, to help explain those things. Um, and then one of the things I like to do with the kids is I always kind of give them the, if I’m, if I’m here and available in the office, I’m not always able to do it, but just give them the, hey, look, here’s my card. If you get into trouble. Don’t talk right. Like, remember your, you know, remember your right to silence, right? Remember your right to an attorney. Those those aren’t just things that we say. Those are real things.

Carrie Kemper Allen: And, and, you know, take a picture of my card and stick it on your phone. If you need to call me first, I’ll call your mom for you. It’s fine. You know, just so that they know that there’s somebody on their side. That if they screw up real bad, you know, it’s not the end of the world. And we can help them. But if you screw up, you don’t want to compound a mistake, right? Like you, you’ve already screwed up. You’ve already made. You’ve already had an error in judgment. Let’s make good, good choices going forward from that point so that we can avoid the worst long term, you know, consequences. And I always like to do that because I feel like that’s one of those things. I was a good kid. I didn’t get into trouble, but I had friends and nobody ever told them that. Nobody ever said, you know, we were always taught. And I’m not saying it’s bad. You know, the police officers are the helpers. And I totally agree that they are. But if you are the one who is being questioned at that very moment, they are not the helper. Um, so yes, I.

Trisha Stetzel: Tried to get to the bottom of the problem.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Right? Right. So if I need help with a problem, I want them. Um, but if I am the problem, I need to protect myself.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah.

Carrie Kemper Allen: And then again, reminding the kids, please don’t be the problem. Right? Like make good choices. Yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: This is, this is not a good excuse.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Right? And there’s value in having someone who’s not mom tell you that. Right?

Trisha Stetzel: Of course.

Carrie Kemper Allen: And give you a safe outlet.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. For sure. When I, I guess I, you know, for me, Carrie, just thinking about wills and all of those things, it’s and estate planning, it’s all for leading up to my demise and making sure that my family is taken care of. But there’s so many things that we need to think about while we’re still here that are very important. So for all of my friends out there who are my age, who do not have wills, can you tell us what happens, especially in the state of Texas, if you pass without a will?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So in Texas, the answer is it depends. Um, and, and we kind of have two buckets, right? Like are you a married person? Are you a single person? That’s kind of our first starting point. So if you’re a married person, then we have to decide, do you have kids? Well, do you have kids? Do you have kids with your spouse or do you have kids from a prior relationship? Oh my goodness. Sorry. You know this.

Trisha Stetzel: I know the routine. It’s okay.

Carrie Kemper Allen: You do. And I even have my lamp on today. I know.

Trisha Stetzel: So for those of you who are not watching and only listening carries lights go out after a certain period of time. So it went dark in our office. We’re back.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Okay. Sorry. Just. It’s not every time. Ah. Um, so we have to decide kind of where your family fits in that and in our, you know, traditional 1960s nuclear family, that’s not such a big deal because it does go to the spouse and then to the kids because the kids are of the marriage, but not that’s not our families anymore, right? Like our families are blended these days. And, and, you know, we may be on a second marriage or we may have kids from another relationship. Those things all come in to set out how Texas determines your property passes without a will. So the number one rule is if you want to decide how your property is passed, you need a will. If you’re okay with the state of Texas telling you how it gets passed, they don’t get to keep it, but they get to decide how it gets passed. If you’re okay with that plan, you don’t need a will either. But I’ve, you know, it’s very, very infrequently that I find somebody who’s like, yeah, I’m okay with that plan because it’s just awkward. It cuts out the surviving spouse a lot of times. Um, and we, we have so many families where the surviving spouse. Yeah, it may be the second spouse, but maybe they got maybe they’ve been married for 40 years. Um, I had one a couple of weeks ago. They had been married for over 40 years and all of their children were children together.

Carrie Kemper Allen: But she was not the first spouse. Um, you know, so it just kind of throws a little wrench in there, right? Um, and they had, he had a child from his earlier marriage that was an infant that she raised, um, you know, really unfortunate situation with a tragedy that started that, that second family for him. Um, but that was his wife and the only mother that child ever knew. Right. Um, so that family obviously is treated a little differently than a blended family who came together with all grown up children and married late in life. But the law doesn’t see any difference in those two families. Wow. Um, so I, I definitely recommend you got to get a will and, and in Texas, we have this great provision, um, that allows us to do handwritten wills. So if, you know, budget is an issue, which I totally understand, it always is. And, and, and you can’t swing it to make it to work with a professional handwrite a will, a handwritten will is better than nothing. Don’t type it up and sign it. Do all those things because that’s where people get into errors. Uh, because we have certain ways it has to be signed to make it official. Just handwrite it, handwrite it until you can meet with a professional and then meet with a professional.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. So speaking of meeting with a professional, Carrie, what is the best way? Because I know people are already like, oh my gosh, I really need to talk to Carrie. What’s the best way to reach out to your office if they have questions or want to pursue getting their estate planning done?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Of course. So they can always go to our website, it’s k.com. Um, there’s an inquiry button on that website. Um, but if they want to reach out directly to either myself or my amazing paralegal, Marla, um, you can always email us directly and we have an intake email and it’s I n t a k e intake at callen-lorde dot com. So either one of those are great. Um, we certainly don’t mind if you want to email us directly. That’s not a big deal. Um, but if you want to use the inquiry form on the website, that’s great as well.

Trisha Stetzel: Perfect. I love that shout out to Marla. She’s amazing. She is amazing.

Carrie Kemper Allen: She is.

Trisha Stetzel: Alright. I want to tackle what I find most important because as you know, I have gone through this recently and it has been such a learning experience. I’ve told everyone that knows me, I’m going to write a book about it because what I didn’t know, I didn’t know, and now I know some, but I didn’t know everything. I want to talk about probate. So at a very high level, tell us what probate means. And then I’m going to ask you some questions because I’m still curious.

Carrie Kemper Allen: So if you have a will, the will doesn’t pass anything legally until it’s admitted to probate in Texas. So probate is really just the, the process of taking the will to the courthouse and getting it approved by the probate court and admitted to probate. There’s a whole bunch of different kinds of probate in Texas. Well, I won’t say whole bunch. There’s more than one. Um, and, and some of them require us to do a little more work after we get to the courthouse. And some of them don’t require as much work getting to the courthouse. Um, but probate is that process of making the will authenticated, proving that it’s legit, putting it on the record. Um, and then at that point, allowing it to be used for the official transfer of property.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. So can it only be probated after the person passes?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Yes. And I get that question a lot. You. There is a way to put your will on file in the courthouse. I don’t see anybody doing that in the last, like, ten years or so. Um, it seems like one of those things that we used to do before we had word processors and the will was like this big sacred piece of paper. Now that we can reprint it, if you want to change something all the time. It’s, it’s not as big of a thing. Um, but yeah, we, we don’t take it down there until you pass away. And then it depends on the type of probate that we do. As to your extensive, your involvement with the court after that process and again, in in probate in Texas, it’s not always scary. Um, you know, you have a will you take it down to the courthouse? We have a hearing. Uh, Marla and I file a bunch of pleadings for you on your behalf. Uh, we go down to the courthouse, we have a quick little hearing. Sometimes it’s a Zoom hearing. Um, and, you know, and, and then we help you with the back end of what needs to happen, but nothing can legally transfer until that will is officially probated and there’s an executor. It’s just not effective. It’s just a piece of paper until we get it admitted to the court.

Trisha Stetzel: Yes, yes and yes. And oh, by the way, y’all, even if you have like full power of attorney when your person is still alive, uh, when they pass away, you don’t have any authority any more until the will is fully probated and done. All of the stuff in court absolutely carries. Amazing. By the way, I’m just shout out to Carrie and Mala. Uh, and we did, we did Zoom. Uh, and it wasn’t scary. It was not scary at all. It was just I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And so between the time that my grandmother passed away and we got the will probated, I had no control over any thing. And I’m the executor for her will, by the way, you guys. So that’s why I had full power of attorney to begin with, but it was it was just really, really interesting to me. Now, you and I were having a conversation not that long ago about something called Lady Bird, I believe is what you called it. Can you tell me what that is again?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Sure. It’s another kind of one of those buzzwords that’s floating around out there a lot, but for good reason. It’s a really great option for a lot of families. So as families, you know, age in their estates simplify. And I mean, I’m not talking about we age like to 90. I’m talking about we like retire and we start consolidating our assets. We just don’t have as many things out there anymore. So many of our assets are, um, beneficiary designated, right? So I have a bank account and it says all to my husband on it or it goes to my kids after, you know, I pass away, that’s a beneficiary designated asset. Those items don’t go through probate. Um, so the things that go through probate are like, um, assets that don’t have a beneficiary designation. So you forgot to put one on your 401 K because. Whatever reason you did or it happens so often. Um, but your house is generally your biggest non profit, your, your biggest asset. And it’s generally along with a retirement account, the biggest asset that people have. Um, so you’ve got this valuable asset that has to go through probate in order to be transferred. So you have two options for avoiding probate. You have a trust, um, which is complicated and not always for everyone. Um, and then you have a deed, um, which is called a lady bird deed and a lady bird deed is, is a transfer on death deed.

Carrie Kemper Allen: They’ve been around for a long time. The lady bird deed is a Texas specific document. It’s, um, it’s created by an by, uh, case law and not by statute, if I remember correctly, the terminology. Um, and so it does a very same thing as a, a very similar thing as a transfer on death deed. But the cool thing about it is. You sign it when you’re alive. Um, and it basically allows your property to stay in your name and you own it and you can do whatever you want with it until you die. And then when you die, it goes to whoever you put on there. Um, so it’s really, really nice because, um, let’s say I, I, I age and I need to move out of my home. Right? But I’ve already lady bird deeded it to my kids. Um, that’s okay, because if I don’t own it when I pass away, doesn’t matter. I can still sell it. I don’t have to have my kids permission to sell it. Um, it’s kind of its own very special little, I don’t know, surprise. I really like it. It’s a really great option for so many families because if all of their big assets, their bank accounts and, and their retirement are, are going to go directly to their, to their beneficiaries.

Carrie Kemper Allen: The only thing we have to probate is their house and some cars, and there’s some really easy ways to handle our cars. Now, of course, this is not for everyone. If if you’re telling me your family is going to fight tooth and nail over everything you have, this option is not for you. Um, you know, and if you have a, a gazillion assets, you know, we have some, some clients come in and they have a hundred, a hundred toys, right? You know, they have boats and RVs and, and all these fun, great things, which I’m so glad that they have. Um, but then we have to change title on, you know, 15 things, you know. So we’re talking about a simple estate, right? That’s got a house that’s, or maybe a car. That’s really their only thing that’s not going to have to go through, that’s going to have to go through probate. Um, and it’s a really good option for those people. Um, it’s, it’s definitely a lot less than the cost of probate. Um, and they’re, really popular right now. Everybody’s everybody’s talking about them. Um, but for good reason. It’s a good option for sure.

Trisha Stetzel: And Carrie, can you help people with that as well?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Absolutely. They’re, they’re relatively easy to do. We pull up your legal description. Um, most of the time it is not affected by whether you have a mortgage or not. But most of my clients that are asking for these, you know, they’ve paid off their home, you know, they’ve lived in their home their whole life. We’re not talking about people that, um, generally I don’t see that being, you know, I don’t see clients doing that when they have a mortgage, you know, because if you have a mortgage, there’s more complications right after you’re after you pass, somebody’s got to pay that off, somebody’s got to sell your house and that kind of thing.

Trisha Stetzel: So yeah, we went through that. Um hum. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Right, right. I understand completely. Like I said, I’m going to write a book. I didn’t know what I didn’t know and I still don’t know at all. I’m still learning.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Well, I don’t claim to know it all either. I mean, I’ve been doing this for 20. It’ll be 23 years this year. And, um, I mean, they used to joke with us when we were in law school and even when I was a young attorney. You know, it’s the practice of law, like practicing medicine, right? Like you, you’re, you’re always practicing to be better at it. And I definitely feel like there’s still things I learn. Um, I definitely am not an expert. I would not claim to be an expert. Um, but I do like what I do and I’m pretty good at it. So, you know, I mean, yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. Okay. I know our time ran out so fast. This was amazing. So I know some people who are listening, Carrie already want to connect with you. They’re like, I gotta do the thing because it’s really important. And I know and I understand and other people are even more confused than when we started because they just don’t know where to start. So if someone listening knows they need to get started and get their estate in order, but hasn’t hasn’t even started yet. Yeah. What’s the first step that they can take right away?

Carrie Kemper Allen: They need to make an appointment with a professional. I mean, it just you don’t know what you don’t know. And you’ve said that several times, you know, during this. You know, you don’t know what you don’t know. And if you don’t know how the law is going to affect your family, you can’t make the right decisions. Um, now you can always start out by handwriting a little will not a problem. Go ahead and do that. It doesn’t hurt anything. Um, but again, you don’t know what you don’t know. So. So find a professional, even if all you’re doing is just consulting with them to get an idea of where to go, what needs to happen. It’ll give you clarity on where you need to go and what steps you need to take, because there are steps you can take on your own.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. Y’all don’t wait. Please take action because if you don’t, the state gets to make all of the decisions for you after you’re gone. And no one no one. I shouldn’t say no one. Most people don’t want that.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Well, and the other thing, Trisha on that too, and I’m telling people this all the time, it costs three times more and takes three, four times as long to do it, you know? So leave the plan. Have the peace of mind for yourself and for your family. You know, it just it’s it’s worth that, right? Like having that peace of mind and knowing I took care of my business. Yeah. It wasn’t the most fun thing to talk about. It’s not what I want to meet up on Saturday and chit chat over, you know, the game. But it’s important and it’s important for the people we’re leaving behind.

Trisha Stetzel: It is absolutely true. And, um, so from me to all of you who are listening, invest in that now. While you can still make those decisions, it will make all the difference in the world.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Absolutely, absolutely.

Trisha Stetzel: Everything that comes after that. So carry one more time. If people want to engage with you or reach out to your office, what’s the best way to do that?

Carrie Kemper Allen: Yeah. So they can go to our website, it’s K Allen law.com. Um, or they can email us directly and it’s intake I n t a k e@law.com. Perfect. And you.

Trisha Stetzel: Guys, I feel like it should be Halloween, like we should tell ghost stories because Carrie’s office went dark and.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Light.

Trisha Stetzel: Went off again. Here it comes. It’s all good. Carrie, thank you so much for spending the time with time with me today. Um, I really, really appreciate you helping build some clarity around estate planning and probate and even some of the other programs or things that you’re doing for people and you’re amazing. Your office is amazing. And I love that. Not only do you treat everyone in your office as family, but you treat your clients like family too. So thank you.

Carrie Kemper Allen: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for giving me the opportunity today. Trisha. It was really fun.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. All right, you guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that I had with Kari, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, veteran, or Houston leader ready to grow or that sandwich family that, you know, that has growing kiddos at home and is caring for aging parents and grandparents. Also, be sure to follow, rate, and review the show. It helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.

Discovering Tierra Encantada: A Revolutionary Spanish Immersion Program for Young Learners and Their Families

March 25, 2026 by Jacob Lapera

Franchise Marketing Radio
Franchise Marketing Radio
Discovering Tierra Encantada: A Revolutionary Spanish Immersion Program for Young Learners and Their Families
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In this episode of Franchise Marketing Radio, Lee Kantor interviews Kristen Denzer, CEO and founder of Tierra Encantada, a Spanish immersion early education and childcare franchise. Kristen shares how her entrepreneurial journey led to creating a unique program combining language immersion and global cuisine for children ages six weeks to six years. She discusses the organic growth into franchising, ideal franchisee traits, marketing strategies, and the comprehensive support system for franchisees. The episode highlights the benefits of bilingual education, Tierra Encantada’s innovative curriculum, and advice for those considering joining the brand.

Kristen Denzer started Tierra Encantada with the sole purpose of creating a place she would send her own children – which she proudly did. She had experienced childcare at other centers, and knew families wanted more. A place where diversity and inclusion weren’t buzz words, but were embedded in the classroom environment ensuring all families felt welcomed and appreciated. A place where children learned a second language during the most critical time for language development, leaving them fluent in Spanish by age 5. A place where screens weren’t used by children, and meals weren’t chicken nuggets and pizza. And most importantly, a place where the hard-working educators were paid a living wage and provided a career with benefits.

Since founding Tierra Encantada in 2013, Kristen has led the company through those values. Today, Tierra Encantada is the leader in Spanish immersion early education® and its unique approach to childcare includes an elevated culinary program providing children with fresh-cooked global meals designed to expand young palates. Tierra Encantada has grown exponentially, first through corporate growth and then in 2019 launched franchising. Tierra Encantada has corporate and franchise locations across the country, and has aggressive growth plans to continue its national expansion.

She leads the company’s senior management team, oversees strategic growth, and sets the vision for the company. She has led the company through year over year double-digit growth every single year since opening. She has received numerous industry accolades for her business acumen and leadership, including Inc Magazine’s “Top 100 Female Founders,” Financial Times “Fastest Growing Companies in the Americas”, and the U.S. Small Business Administration’s “Small Businessperson of the Year.”

She is a serial entrepreneur and experienced speaker. Her entrepreneurial journey began with consulting, where she provided evaluation assistance to nonprofit organizations, educational institutions, and tribal nations. She also co-founded two other companies that she later sold – a dog daycare and an event rental company.

Connect with Kristen on LinkedIn.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Overview of Tierra Encantada as a Spanish immersion early education program.
  • The origin story of Tierra Encantada and the inspiration behind its creation.
  • The unique language immersion methodology used in the program.
  • The comprehensive curriculum that includes bilingual education.
  • The elevated global culinary offerings provided to children.
  • Insights into the franchise model and its organic development.
  • Strategies for selecting ideal franchise locations and marketing the program.
  • The profile of an ideal franchisee and characteristics of successful franchisees.
  • Success stories from franchisees and their experiences.
  • Advice for prospective franchisees considering joining the Tierra Encantada brand.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Coming to you live from the Business RadioX studio. It’s Franchise Marketing Radio.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here. Another episode of Franchise Marketing Radio. And this is going to be a good one. Today on the show we have the CEO and founder of Tierra Encantada, Kristen Denzer. Welcome.

Kristen Denzer: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I am excited to learn what you’re up to tell us about Tierra Encantada. How are you serving folks?

Lee Kantor: Absolutely. So we are the leader in Spanish immersion early education. So childcare and preschool. And so we serve kids six weeks through six years of age. And it’s a language immersion program. So kids learn Spanish naturally, just like they’re learning their first language at home.

Lee Kantor: So what was the genesis of the idea? How’d this thing get started?

Lee Kantor: You know, really, I wanted it for my own kids. I had started multiple other companies and running those. I needed childcare, and so when I was looking for childcare, you know, I, I struggled to find something that had all of the things I was looking for. Um, you know, we’re not the first say language immersion. We’re not the first with like a really nice, you know, elevated meal program. But we are the first that kind of combines all of the elements that we have. And when I couldn’t find something, I decided to just create it. And my kids were the first customers.

Lee Kantor: So did you have a background in teaching Spanish? Was that what you were doing previously?

Lee Kantor: No, I’m an entrepreneur. So just serial entrepreneur. I, uh, I leaned on, you know, people I hired to run the program. I mean, the model that we have really is something that does not require a franchisee or me to be there every day. So I never was. I had a director, an experience early education childcare director that ran the day to day operations. I just created the model.

Lee Kantor: But what about the methodology to teach the language was that that just happened by just doing and learning, or did you have a program you were following at least to get started? Or this was just like, let’s just see how this goes.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. You know, so I’m so glad you asked that, because I think that is one of the most common points of confusion is when people learn about us, they think that what we’re doing is we are, you know, sitting down and teaching them Spanish. So what we’re teaching is all of the different content around early learning benchmarks, depending on the age, how the language comes in is that is how the vehicle through which that’s taught. And so if you think about it, if you have kids, you know, when they’re little at home, you’re not teaching them English, you’re just talking to them. You know, you’re talking to your one year old and be like, oh, you have a ball, a blue ball. You know, you’re not teaching them English, you’re just talking to them. That’s how kids in our program learn. And that’s why it’s so effective because they’re learning naturally. So they’re just spoken to only in Spanish all day. And they’re taught our curriculum through that language. And so that is something that’s why it’s so effective is because they’re learning naturally.

Lee Kantor: So in an English home, an English speaking home, the child would come in to your location and it would be they would only be spoken to in Spanish. So they would just kind of have to figure it out, or you would just slowly immerse them into the day to day activities. And just like you would if they were learning English at home.

Lee Kantor: Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And so a lot of our families start their kids when they’re, you know, very young, six weeks, you know, six weeks old. And even though they’re spoken only English, you know, at home and only Spanish with us, we have many infants where their first words are, you know, either Agua or Ola, you know, in Spanish because they are immersed in Spanish all day.

Lee Kantor: So when did you. So you have this concept and you say, okay, this is how we’re going to do it. Was it difficult to get those kind of early adopter people on board to say, all right, this is interesting. I don’t know if we’ve ever done this before. No one, none of my peers are doing it this way. But how was it kind of at the inception?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. You know, I think that, um, I think the biggest challenge for me when I opened here was really about making sure I chose the right location and then how to market it because when families learn about the opportunity, they’re very interested in it because, I mean, there’s not many parents you’d ask, do you want your child to know a second language? And they would say, no, you know, parents want the best for their kids. They want to set them up for success. And so when they know that this is an option, and then especially when they come to tours and they see kids, you know, turning to their parents, talking in English, turning to their teacher, talking in Spanish, they see the value firsthand. And so I would say, you know, it’s not hard to show the value to families. My biggest challenge is when I started was just learning how to market it and how to make sure I pick the right location.

Lee Kantor: And then when you were choosing locations, what were the drivers behind it? What did you learn about what an ideal location is?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, you know, for the first one, I had it in my head for some reason that I needed to find a location that had previously been a child care center, which obviously limited my options. And so I located it in a suburb of the Twin Cities. Um, you know, a little bit further out. And the psychographics demographics especially that we use now are so much more robust. It’s not that that was, I would say, like a bad location. It just took a lot longer to ramp up because, you know, our best customers are families where they, you know, see the value of language learning that, you know, appreciate global food, culinary program, you know, that want, um, their kids to experience, you know, a very like diverse, rich environment. Uh, and we are, you know, more of like a premium program. And so now when we’re looking for sites, we’re looking for, you know, a lot higher density of kids within an area versus some of the more suburban or exurban areas. And we’re looking at some of the psychographics around, you know, for example, shopping at Whole Foods or things like that, where really our best customers come into play, you know, highly educated two family households.

Lee Kantor: And then what is the age range of the children that go through the program?

Lee Kantor: Uh, six weeks through six years. So right up until before kindergarten.

Lee Kantor: And then at the end of the like if they went that whole time, are they so they’re conversationally fluent. I would imagine at that point, but they may not like understand all the grammar and all that kind of the specifics of the language or are they kind of good to go at that point?

Lee Kantor: Yes. No, that’s exactly right. So at the level of that age, so, you know, at the vocabulary of a 4 or 5 year old, they are fluent. And I mean, we’ve had parents leave reviews for us on, say, Yelp and say their child actually translated for them in Central America. And so they are fluent. And then they’ll go to, you know, depending on their district. Um, there are a number of districts where they’ll have language immersion programs where then they can continue it and some areas don’t, and then they try to keep it up through other means with lessons. But there’s options for families depending on where they live.

Lee Kantor: And you mentioned the meals earlier. Are the meals kind of Latin foods or is it, you know, chicken nuggets and spaghetti?

Lee Kantor: No. So that’s actually a huge value proposition. And the second most common reason families choose us. So we have a elevated culinary program that has a global menu. So it’s not just, you know, Latin American food, it’s food from around the world. And for example, like we have seafood on our menu, which you just don’t see in childcare. And so you’ll never see something like corn dogs, pizza, chicken nuggets. It’s, you know, quinoa with avocado. It’s, you know, shrimp, jollof rice, it’s Brazilian whitefish stew. You know, it’s things from around the world that we really get to expose and expand kids palates.

Lee Kantor: Now, what was it like when you like I’m, I’m assuming that you went into this venture with the idea that you were going to franchise and expand through franchising? Is that accurate or did that just happen accidentally later?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, no, that happened accidentally. I didn’t actually, to be honest, I think when I first started this, really understand how franchising worked and it wasn’t even on my radar. Um, I just, I opened the first one and then opened another one and opened another one and, and then started getting approached about franchising. And so that was really how I learned about the model and, and what that might look like. But I definitely didn’t start the brand with the idea that I was going to franchise it.

Lee Kantor: So, but you did started with the idea that you were going to expand it.

Lee Kantor: Uh, I mean, I think that had been an option in my mind, but I think I was just very focused on opening the first one. I didn’t have, like, I would say like a big, you know, master plan of opening so many after so much time, uh, because I had opened other businesses, but they had like one location. And so when I opened the first one and then got it to, you know, finally, like cash flow break even then I was like, oh, you know, this is actually a really great model. I feel really passionate about this. I want to do more. And that was when I really started thinking about like growing it larger, opening multiple locations.

Lee Kantor: And then when you were kind of changing gears from when you’re, when you have one location or even a handful of your, your own locations, you’re building it a certain way. But when you say, okay, I’m going to be a franchisor, your business changes because now the franchisee is your customer, not the family with a child. That’s your franchisees customer. So how did that shift happen? Was it difficult to build the standard operating procedures, all the documentation, all of that and kind of package it so that a person gets kind of that complete playbook business in a box that they’re looking for.

Lee Kantor: Oh, I mean, I think I wouldn’t say it was difficult because I had opened multiple at that point. And so I already had been doing a lot of that because we were opening multiple locations and needed to ensure consistency across those. But what definitely shifted for me was how I looked at that support because, you know, when I had three locations, I didn’t have a corporate office, I didn’t have overhead staff. It was me, you know, and that was easy. But when I decided to franchise, I didn’t I didn’t want it to just be me. I wanted to make sure that, you know, there was really strong support in place. And that was really the trigger for me, starting to build out our corporate office so that I could make sure that as we brought people in, that we had a really strong team to support them and set them up for success.

Lee Kantor: And what were kind of the must haves in your kind of in your vision of this is going to be a well supported, uh, ecosystem?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Uh, definitely marketing, definitely marketing operations, you know, training, uh, those are big ones. Then also we added someone in kind of like real estate construction design. Uh, our projects are large, they’re complex. And so there’s a lot of nuance with that. Um, but those were the initial positions that I focused on to make sure that, you know, the, the biggest, like kind of barriers or things that can set people back. And so that was what I focused on initially.

Lee Kantor: And what does that kind of ideal franchisee look like? Have you got a good avatar of who the ideal, um, franchisee is?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. You know, we, we have franchisees that have, you know, various different backgrounds. And I think that the, the two different kind of best franchisees that we have are either, you know, a franchisee where, you know, they’re an experienced operator, they’ve franchised other brands, they, you know, know how to just take a playbook, execute on it, uh, and lean into that support. So they’re set up for success. Then the other type that we’ve seen, you know, like that really does well is, uh, when someone has some sort of touch or connection to language immersion and they are really like wanting to be more present to set it up for success and not necessarily be the director, but they’re just a lot more present. I’ll give you a great example of that. The very first franchisee that opened. She was actually a parent. One of one of the two business partners were a parent in our program. They were both bankers and they worked from home but worked out of that center initially. And so they were there. They had a director, you know, but but they were just there making sure like everything went exactly as planned. And so I think that, uh, you know, that like deep passion, desire of involvement is really helpful. But then on the other side, when you have the experienced operator, they’ve already built, you know, a team, a system, they know what that looks like. And so those have been really set up, set up for success with other brands, come into us and know how to execute really seamlessly.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there a story you can share about one of your franchisees, maybe that, uh, surprised you or is rewarding? Uh, that was able to get one of these things going?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, I mean, I think that, I think, for example, um, one of our, our larger sexual franchisee right now, uh, multi-unit franchisee, you know, they came in and they had one unit initially, you know, and opened their first location, learned a lot, learned a lot along the way. You know, had plenty of obstacles, whether licensing, construction, uh, work through that with them. And then within a couple of months after they opened, they signed on to do, you know, dozen more and now they have multiple locations open and they actually hadn’t franchised prior to this. They did have other businesses, but hadn’t franchised. And with them, I think what’s been really great partnership is they’ve known they’ve run businesses, so they bring that angle, but they also bring a lot of just like sense of partnership and trust with us and executing what we’re what we’re recommending. And I think that has really set them up for success is making sure that when they are opening a location, when we’re talking to them about, for example, how important it is to market very early. You know, don’t wait till three months out. I mean, as soon as you have a construction schedule, you know, six, nine, 12 months out, start marketing. They get that. They listen, they do it. And I think that’s really allowed them to excel at what they’re doing now.

Lee Kantor: Um, having run and um, several successful business before this and now running a successful franchise, do you have any advice for the person who is maybe that franchisee that’s on the fence and they’re like, should I pull the trigger on this? And you know, it’s a lot easier to say no to an opportunity. Do you have any kind of advice to help them say yes?

Lee Kantor: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think for franchising in general, definitely. I mean, there’s, there’s great stats about it. I mean, people that franchise versus kind of starting your own tend to be more successful. But for childcare and for us specifically, What I would say is, you know, in talking to franchisees of other brands, there’s a lot of value adds that people don’t quite realize when they’re thinking about childcare. Uh, there’s, you know, obviously the reoccurring revenue element of it. I mean, our families are paying in advance ahead and it’s reoccurring, but also our average customer is staying three plus years. And when you have, for example, say a QSR franchise, you know, every, say meal period, you might be looking for 150 plus 200 tickets just to just to break even. Whereas with us, once you get 150 kids, you have a waitlist and you might not, you might only have maybe ten spaces, you know, a year. I mean, and so you just, it’s very different and you’re not in that constant marketing cycle that you are with a lot of concepts. Um, the last thing I’ll add is with us specifically, if someone’s looking at all childcare and trying to decide between, say, us and someone else, I would say with us specifically, the value proposition is, is so clear.

Lee Kantor: You know, a lot of times when a franchisee will say is they’ll say, you know, when I was looking at brands, I wanted to feel like I could explain to a parent why they should come to us versus someone else. And with a lot of brands, they, they didn’t feel like they could say that because, you know, the colors might be different, the curriculum, but a lot of families, they don’t understand like what exactly curriculum means. They want there to be curriculum, their kids to learn. And so when there’s a difference in curriculum, they don’t understand that as much. But for a franchisee to be able to say like, hey, your child’s going to be bilingual and they’re going to have this amazing meal program. It’s a very clear and strong value proposition for families when they want to trust someone with their kids.

Lee Kantor: Now, is there any pushback from parents that say, you know, that’s great. They’re going to be immersed in Spanish. They’re going to be fluent if they stay all six years. But do they feel like they’re missing out of kind of the their development in English? And is that an issue at all, or do you include like other kind of. Do you include math and things like that as well? Foundational things as part of the immersion?

Lee Kantor: Yeah, yeah. Because remember, Spanish is just the language the curriculum is taught in. And so the curriculum is, is a full, normal early childhood education curriculum. So math, science, reasoning, all of the elements that are in any curriculum that you would see at any large childcare brand is what we teach. The only difference is it’s taught in the language of Spanish. And so parents haven’t haven’t experienced that concern nor when they’ve left have we gotten that feedback. Uh, and actually being bilingual, it sets kids up for success. I mean, for example, kids that learn a second language at an early age have had higher standardized test scores. And so there’s a lot of value adds of learning a second language, right?

Lee Kantor: So they’re getting everything they would get in an English speaking. And also they’re getting to learn Spanish.

Lee Kantor: Yes, exactly.

Lee Kantor: And then the English speaking stuff probably happens organically just in their home.

Lee Kantor: Exactly. Yeah. Because everywhere else they are, you know, throughout the weekend, the nights everywhere else they are is in English. It’s only in our program. That’s Spanish.

Lee Kantor: Right? So it’s only an add on. There’s no real negative.

Lee Kantor: Yes.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to learn more, have a more substantive conversation with you or somebody on the team, what is the website? What’s the best way to connect?

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Tierra encantada com so T I e r r e n c a n t a d a.com.

Lee Kantor: Well, Kristen, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Lee Kantor: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Franchise Marketing Radio.

Tagged With: Kristen Denzer, Tierra Encantada

Joshua Berry: How Open Curiosity Creates Better Leaders Than Control Ever Will

March 24, 2026 by angishields

HBR-Econic-Feature
Houston Business Radio
Joshua Berry: How Open Curiosity Creates Better Leaders Than Control Ever Will
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Econic-Stacked-FullColor-Logo5-JoshuaBerry

Joshua-BerryJoshua Berry is a world-class facilitator of change. As an author, speaker, entrepreneur, and CEO of Econic, Joshua has spent the last two decades evolving the what, who, and why of Fortune 500 companies and venture-backed startups.

Along with his team, Joshua has sparked change in organizations like US Bank, John Deere, Procter & Gamble, Nelnet, Ameritas, Omaha Public Power District, Farm Credit Services of America, and Blue Cross Blue Shield of Nebraska, among others.

For employees and leaders looking to grow themselves and their organizations, Joshua speaks on overcoming limiting beliefs, adaptive leadership, and the innovation systems and mindsets that create engines for growth. Learn more at econic.co and joshuaberry.com.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshberrygphr/

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. It’s my pleasure to introduce you to today’s guest, Joshua Berry, CEO and co-founder of Econic and a nationally recognized author, speaker, and facilitator of change. For more than two decades, Joshua has worked with fortune 500 companies and high growth startups to help leaders rethink how performance actually happens, shifting from command and control leadership to team led results through Econic. He’s helped organizations like John Deere, Procter and Gamble, U.S. Bank, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, and others build culture. Cultures rooted in learning, experimentation, and shared ownership. Joshua is also known for his dare to be naive philosophy, challenging leaders to test bold, counterintuitive ideas that unlock innovation and momentum in uncertain environments. Joshua, welcome to the show.

Joshua Berry: Thank you. Trisha.

Trisha Stetzel: Super. Yeah, I’m super excited to have you on. I think that there’s a lot in what I just said about you that we’re going to talk about today, which is going to be fun. So before we get started, Joshua, tell us a little bit more about you.

Joshua Berry: Sure. I think it all starts with the fact that I’m a father of four. Uh, it’s birthday season, so they will soon be 12, 14, 16 and 18. Married to my high school sweetheart, also named Trisha and spelling it the right way of T r I s h a. I live in Lincoln, Nebraska. That has been a great home base for over 25 years, but has allowed me to do work in over 40 different countries while still having a great place to raise a family.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that, thanks for being a great dad. I have the opportunity to be on a podcast called Girldad. I’m really excited about that, so you should take a listen to it.

Joshua Berry: I will.

Trisha Stetzel: It’s going to be fun.

Joshua Berry: I love two of mine are girls, so I will check it out. Thank you.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that you’re welcome. Okay, so Joshua, I think I’d just like to dive right into, um, the way there’s there’s so much happening in the world right now. Lots of change, a lot of, um, uncertainty, things that are happening around us that we can’t control. And I know you have some thoughts around how we view work and ways that we can use our work to You shift the way we’re doing things, whether it’s inside of the work or outside. So tell me a little bit about I’m going to call it the sandbox. So tell me more.

Joshua Berry: Yeah, I love to think of work as a sandbox. If any of the listeners are probably like you and me, we still have to work for a living and therefore we’re required to show up and, and do work, and we get a choice of how we want to use that time. And I view work as a phenomenal sandbox for us to be able to practice more of the behaviors that we need in society, right? So it’s like a bonus, like we have to go do it. Many times we’re put into situations with people we wouldn’t normally hang out with or talk to, and we have to figure out how to make something better together. And so when I think again about all that we need in society in terms of, of better discourse, more trust, more resilience, uh, Ease your ability to to change our mind when new thinking and new facts come about. Um, these are all things we get to practice at work and get paid for it. And so I just love again, the work that I’ve done for the last couple of decades has always been at the intersection of business performance and people and trying to create these spaces for people to practice those types of behaviors.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. So, Joshua, can you give us an example of something where you’ve been able to use that sandbox?

Joshua Berry: Absolutely. Uh, some of our early work at Econic was helping build innovation labs and incubator programs within large companies. And oftentimes, uh, the issues that some of those innovators or entrepreneurs would run into were their own limiting beliefs about, I can’t try this thing because if I do and I fail, uh, then traditionally I’m not going to be seen as a high performer. And yet that’s exactly the type of behavior that we needed to instill in them and coach. And so a lot of our programing and workshops weren’t just teaching them. For instance, how to experiment or how to build rapid prototypes of new ideas. It was working on their own inner work, what I call groundwork, in terms of what voice is telling you about your worth when you fail at something. Now that’s a phenomenal sandbox, because just imagine if we had more people who are a little bit more thoughtful about saying, I really want to try something new in work or in life or at home or whatever it might be. But what will people think if I fail? Well, these incubator programs and innovation programs we got to build gave people routine practice on exactly those types of behaviors. And what they began to see is that when they embraced some of those things and they started to realize, oh, I tried this, it failed. I’m still okay. Um, they actually were a little bit braver in other aspects of our lives, too.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. Yeah. Wow. I love that I picked up on a word that you used that I really like, which is, which is entrepreneur. Yeah. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Joshua Berry: Sure. It’s it’s a $2 word that we use when we’re talking about people who have been designated for more innovative or entrepreneurial work within an organization. And so we typically refer to them as entrepreneurs. Um, and there’s a lot of, we can fill a whole episode on what you need to do to be a successful entrepreneur. Set the system up for it. But that’s what I mean.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. I love that you talk about embracing bold and, and, and counterintuitive ideas in your dare to be naive work. So what a powerful, naive hypothesis you’ve tested that actually accelerated outcomes.

Joshua Berry: Yeah, yeah, I’m I’m known, uh, in the speaking world and others is that naive guy. Uh, and it is, it’s, it’s, I’m not completely, willfully ignorant about the world, but I do believe that so much more is created if we believe in what can happen and the optimism and the beliefs that are driven from that. And so a concrete example of it is, you know, most organizations say, uh, our people matter and the growth of our people matter. But a naive belief that I have is the growth of the people matter even more than the business growth. Um, both are important. We need both of them. But at the end of the day, uh, people growth, even over business growth is kind of a naive hypothesis. And a story I like to tell about it is there was a manager named Michael, uh, who we were working with, who gave me a call and he was looking for a mentor for one of his teammates high potential, high potential person. And he asked if I knew someone who could mentor him. I racked my brain a bit and realized that there was somebody I could refer. But this person worked for their competitor down the street and I said, uh, I’ve got someone I could introduce you to have that person meet with the competitor.

Joshua Berry: And he paused for a bit, and Michael eventually said, okay, let’s set that up. Now, what was fascinating was like traditional management logic would say, why would you ever send one of your star performers over to meet with a competitor? But Michael, when I asked him later why he did it, and I had a hunch right as he said, I win either way, right? If I care so much about his growth and development that I’m willing to do something that might be perceived as risky. He’s going to know that I cared that much about him, and his growth was more important. And the counterintuitive thing that happened is the loyalty of that high performer actually grew because there was there was factual evidence, right, that Michael cared so much about his growth and development. And so that person went, he learned from this other mentor and continued to be a high performer at that business. But it was kind of the when push comes to shove, like actually showing your actions back up your words in terms of your belief and your employees development.

Trisha Stetzel: Wow. That’s amazing. And just thinking about the culture that you can build with this, um, we’ll call it, these are your words, strategic experimentation and learning, right? Strategic experimentation, even being naive and trying things, right. Uh, even some counterintuitive ideas. How, how do you build that kind of culture in a business?

Joshua Berry: Uh, yeah, you have to, you do have to have great leadership who have done their own groundwork, their own inner work to be able to understand that there might be other ways. And you mentioned this during the intro. That’s hard. If the culture is is stuck in this idea that you need to command and control everything. I think the best organizations and the best leaders have understood that change is happening too quickly for everything to be prescribed and controlled. And and nobody wants just their team members sitting around waiting to be told like, hey, what do I do next? Uh, so the future from our research and our understanding is what we call team led results. And to build a culture that is focused on team led results, you can’t just jump into that experimentation that you mentioned. You actually have to do a couple of steps before it. And it’s what we call groundwork and we call alignment. The groundwork is, again, what’s the inner work for the team, helping them change their relationship to change? And, uh, specifically how you can do that is create space for teams and individuals to be able to work through where maybe some of their limiting beliefs are related to the work or what’s needed. Once some of that work is done, then you can do alignment. Alignment is about just getting clear on things like what are the expectations for my role? What are our expectations for growth? What are what are the unwritten rules that I see people, uh, behaving as if they were truth that we need to call out. And, uh, once teams have the trust and are able to work through some of those things, then all that experimentation, then all of the progress and the things people used to hire us for right away, like start to fall into place.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to you brought in something from your bio, uh, around the command and control to team lead. We’re right now in our workforce, um, generationally, we have lots of, lots of ages still in the workforce, Absolutely right. Where when I was growing up in these bigger brands, it was very much command and control. And what you said is what needed to get done and the team executed. And we did that over and over again, where the culture and business has shifted a lot to team led. So what are your thoughts around this very broad age range of people in the workforce and everybody, you know, kind of shifting their mindset?

Joshua Berry: Yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: Together.

Joshua Berry: Yeah. To your point, generational differences are real. Um, there’s a reason why stereotypes exist because there is some truth to those things. But what I invite for organizations and we just did, um, we’re about eight months into a 12 month leadership program with about 180 leaders. And they specifically wanted to focus some of the content on the communication styles of five generations in the workforce. So this is near and dear to my heart. And one of the first things that we said is we need to help all people in the workforce, regardless of age, get to a space where they understand that they have agency to either be defensive or open and curious. Yeah, we’re not going to change the history and experience in the decades of experience that brought you to here and some of that preprograming. But we all have agency. Diana Chapman and a couple of others wrote a book called the 15 Commitments to Conscious Leadership and Commitment. Number one. I see you nodding your head is that there’s a line and we have a choice every single day. Do we want to stay below the line where we’re defensive and we’re committed to being right? Or can we flip above the line and be open to learning and committed to learning, even if it proves that we’re wrong. And so the first step, regardless of age, experience, whatever it might be, is can we own that we have agency to be able to make that, that that shift back up because we’ll always drift down like we’re too busy. We make assumptions, all these things. We’re always going to be defensive first, but can we start to create space where we can pause for a moment and get back above that line?

Trisha Stetzel: Oh my goodness. Yes, I have so many more questions for you. But before we go there, I know that there are some folks who are listening today who already want to connect with you to have a conversation or learn more. Where is the best place or how is the best way to connect with you?

Joshua Berry: Yep. Best places. I put out new content on LinkedIn. That’s the best place to find me. You can search for Joshua Berry and Econic there, or we’ll put that in the show notes. My email address, I love to respond to personal emails from people. So that would be Joshua at Econic e c o n I c.co. And then for more information either on our work. It’s Econic or my personal speaking. And, and oftentimes the topics that I’m most interested in, uh, that’s at joshua.com.

Trisha Stetzel: Love it. Okay. Joshua, I’d like for you to tell me a little bit more about the work that Econic is doing. I know that we’ve, we’ve put some of that in a little bit here and a little bit there, but who are you working with and what kind of work are you doing?

Joshua Berry: Yep. It’s across all sorts of industries. We have some higher education clients now, some insurance, financial services, retail, manufacturing. The only common thread is that they are leaders going through some sort of change, uh, or organizational initiatives. And they’re curious and open. Like that’s the common thread. We also rarely work with people who are completely failing and and they need some sort of silver bullet approach, right? But those organizations who are good trying to get even better, and the type of work that we’re doing with them is everything from custom training and development programs to help them practice more of the behaviors that they need within their organization to executive facilitation work, which might be strategic planning or other initiatives. Um, and then more and more of it is around what we talked about previously, which is the idea of team led results. So more, more talks and workshops and virtual programs, specifically helping team leaders, managers. Move past the stage of burnout where they’re feeling like they have to carry everything themselves. And what we help them do is shift mindset and get some new tools to be able to help their teams lead the results. So it doesn’t feel like you’re constantly like pulling and pushing and, and coercing people to get buy in, to get stuff done. But you’ve, you’ve created the steps and the environment so that the teams actually want to almost like pick you up and carry you forward.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. So just thinking about that particular scenario and a leader saying, well, my, my team is not getting the results they need. So I do have to carry all of the weight of the team and do everything that, uh, everything myself, right? Um, and some of those leaders are even saying that they empower their teams to do the things that need to get done, but the behavior doesn’t always match. What are your thoughts there?

Joshua Berry: Yeah, one of my first thoughts is, um, it’s the reason why we start oftentimes with senior leadership teams is, is they say the words empowerment, but then they, their actions don’t actually represent that they’re empowering people. The classic example someone comes in for a one on one and they’re bringing you a problem or an issue and, um, and you adopt a problem solving type of mindset instead of a coaching mindset, right? Well, and what would you do in this situation and what else? And, you know, there’s, ah, I’m not a pro in this. You are a master leadership coach. I see. Um, but there are a lot of great books out there and great resources that help leaders become better coaches. And I already established we have four kids. Oftentimes it’s the same thing as as in parenting. Like if I did everything for my kids, I can’t, I shouldn’t be surprised if they become teenagers and they still want me to do everything for them, right?

Trisha Stetzel: Then you have a bunch of 30 year olds living at home, right? Absolutely.

Joshua Berry: No judgment.

Trisha Stetzel: No judgment.

Joshua Berry: There’s there’s bad luck in life, right? But we have agency. We have control over those things. And so if you feel like you are carrying everything for people, the first thing you need to do is to look at some of your practices and understand this is back to groundwork again. Um, is there something that is causing some sort of immunity in you of giving up that control? And oftentimes these leaders have built their success on being the one with the answers and being the one who their value was based upon solving things. And unfortunately, they then get stuck into these repeating cycles and loops where they just keep reinforcing those things. I was, I was working with an engineering group, um, yesterday speaking at their event, and we got into this conversation around heroic efforts. And I said, heroic efforts in your organization should be the exception. The moment we start to celebrate always these heroic efforts, what you’re doing is you, you’re celebrating the wrong thing. Because now you’re rewarding a behavior and not always rewarding the fixing of those systems or processes or other things that make it so that you shouldn’t have to rely on heroic efforts. And it’s a counterintuitive idea, but if you have too many heroic efforts, you probably have some systems and process problems that you need to step back and be able to address. And so again, that comes back, though, from leaders having to be honest and serious about what type of culture that they want. And if they truly want to empower people, like what does that mean for them?

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. I want to ask you a little deeper question, if that’s okay. What what drives you or what drove you to this work? Why is this work important to you?

Joshua Berry: I believe people have so much squandered potential. Trisha. I believe there are people within organizations that are just going about life and work and everything, and either they don’t have or they’ve given up maybe some of the dreams that they have for the type of life that they could create. And then we’ve created work systems that further drain that from them. And, um, that’s why I’m passionate about this shift that we get to make now, to be able to fully unleash people, quite honestly, into the work that they were made to do and use work as that sandbox to be able to help them practice more of those things to get better. Um, yeah, that’s what drives me.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay. Yeah. You circled us right back around where I wanted to take us, right, was to sandbox and really thinking about it. Like, I know that some of what we have talked about today resonates with someone out there who’s listening around. How can I create or have this sandbox to really help my people who I know have potential?

Joshua Berry: Yeah.

Trisha Stetzel: Get where they want to go, right? Yeah.

Joshua Berry: So what’s what are some things they can do?

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah.

Joshua Berry: Yeah. The first is, is you, especially if you, you phrased it in a way of a team leader, like you need to be able to know where each of those people want to go and be able to have the type of relationship with them, like Michael mentioned, where you’re okay, even if that’s not in your team, right? Like, and that sounds so crazy. Half of half the people just shut this off. But, but you have to have people who care enough about you and, and they know you care enough about them that they’re willing to have that conversation around. What do you want to learn next? What do you want to do next? Obviously, you need a successful business to create opportunities for people to grow. But if your story is a little bit wider And they could grow over there. They could grow over there, whatever it might be. And all of a sudden, you have a lot more abundance and a bigger sandbox to play in. So I think the first one is the relationship. The second piece of it is are you setting the example for yourself? Right. Um, there are a lot of leaders who say these things for their team members, but they don’t actually talk about it or live it themselves. There’s this one sales leader I was working with, who in private, he would tell me that he couldn’t wait until he reached a certain age.

Joshua Berry: So he finally had enough saves so he could actually go do what he wanted to do. And, uh, and I said, have you ever shared that with your team? He’s like, no, why would I ever do that? There might be some of them that would have that same thought. And what I challenged him on was they probably already have those thoughts. You just don’t know it. Just like you already have this thought. And so, uh, you have to start to model some of those things for yourself and being honest. You know, people you mentioned about generational differences, I know there’s differing levels of what people feel is appropriate to share and disclose within the work environment, but I found very few people who don’t value authenticity and value people just being real and sharing those things, even if it doesn’t align with their normal way, you know? Full circle on the naive naivete thing and being naive. Part of my research in that book showed that we we got the word naive kind of wrong a few hundred years ago. Naive actually just means natural or innate or that thing which you’ve had from the start. And so sometimes when you have a naive belief or naive thing that comes up within you, it might actually be something that is worth listening to because maybe it was coming from a deeper source than you’re giving credit to it.

Trisha Stetzel: I wish we had so much more time together. I’m really enjoying this conversation. So, um, as we get to the end of our conversation, just one, one more thing and I’d like to get your thoughts on someone who’s listening today who doesn’t have that relationship with the people that they work with or who report to them, whatever hierarchy you want to look at or level playing field, how do they, how do they get started when it’s it feels so uncomfortable to get to know their team members at that level so that they can start to work together in this sandbox.

Joshua Berry: Yep. A couple quick ones. Um, one would be just being able to have open conversations about what’s working and what’s not working in the role and then doing something about it. Um, another is, uh, if you use an employee engagement survey, actually do something with the results because oftentimes people are sharing some of these things and then the organization takes way too long or they don’t ever act on those results. So you may already have some of this content there. You’re just not doing anything with it. And then I think the third thing is, is, again, if you are the individual who, let’s say it’s completely blocked and you’re not getting this at work at all, great. Find some other part of life where you can do it, whether it’s at a nonprofit or volunteering for a board or some other places where you can continue to explore and try out things that you might normally not have a chance to do at work.

Trisha Stetzel: Wow. Thank you so much for your time today. This is, um, this is the best conversation I’ve had all week.

Joshua Berry: Thank you. Thank you. Trisha. I’m flu. I’m flu.

Trisha Stetzel: I, I love this. I took so many notes and I love when you talked about the two agencies of being defensive or open and curious. I love that that’s so simple. It’s so simple. Just write it on your wall. Right?

Joshua Berry: Absolutely. And it’s again, not mine. 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership. Great book. Go check it out.

Trisha Stetzel: I love it. All right. Joshua, thank you again for your time today. This has been wonderful.

Joshua Berry: Thank you Trisha.

Trisha Stetzel: All right, you guys. That’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Joshua and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, veteran or Houston leader ready to grow. Be sure to follow, rate, and review the show. Of course, it helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.

Finding Comfort in the Paw Prints: Understanding Pet Loss and Mental Health Support

March 18, 2026 by Jacob Lapera

Atlanta Business Radio
Atlanta Business Radio
Finding Comfort in the Paw Prints: Understanding Pet Loss and Mental Health Support
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In this episode of Atlanta Business Radio, Lee interviews Daniel Popovic, author of “Where the Paw Prints Lead” and leader of PawPads. Dan shares how the loss of his Doberman, Marley, inspired his book and a growing community focused on pet grief support. The conversation explores the deep impact of pet loss on mental health, the importance of recognizing pet grief in workplaces, and the broader benefits of pet ownership. Dan discusses his efforts to raise awareness, build supportive communities, and encourage open conversations about the human-animal bond and healing after loss.

Daniel J. Popovic is a product leader and founder whose work centers on pets as foundational anchors to mental health. His recently released book reflects on the emotional role animals play in our lives and the often‑overlooked impact of pet loss.

What began as a personal exploration has grown into a larger venture focused on redefining how we acknowledge, support, and talk about mental health through the lens of the human–animal bond—particularly in families, workplaces, and communities.

Follow PawPads on Facebook.

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

  • Personal experience with pet loss and its emotional impact.
  • The process of writing a book as a form of healing after losing a pet.
  • The significance of daily routines and companionship provided by pets.
  • The formation of a community focused on pet grief support.
  • The mental health benefits of pet ownership and its impact on well-being.
  • The importance of recognizing pet grief in workplace wellness programs.
  • Efforts to raise awareness about pet loss and grief in various settings.
  • The role of pets in enhancing mental health and reducing stress.
  • Building a movement to support those grieving the loss of pets.
  • The connection between pet ownership and healthcare cost savings.

Transcript-iconThis transcript is machine transcribed by Sonix.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studio in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Atlanta Business Radio, brought to you by Kennesaw State University’s Executive MBA program. The accelerated degree program for working professionals looking to advance their career and enhance their leadership skills. And now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: Lee Kantor here, another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. And this is going to be a good one. But before we get started, it’s important to recognize our sponsor KSU Executive MBA Program. Without them, we couldn’t be sharing these important stories today on the show. We have the author of the book Where the Paw Prints lead and the leader of the organization, PawPads, Daniel Popovic. Welcome.

Daniel Popovic: Hey, Lee, thanks. I appreciate thanks for having me.

Lee Kantor: Well, I’m excited to learn what you’re up to. First, tell us about your company, Pop Heads. How are you serving folks?

Daniel Popovic: Oh, gosh, just getting started. And yeah, we’ll jump into maybe all over the place. I mean, it’s all about pets, right? It’s kind of really, uh, embracing that animal human bond that we have with the pets. Talking about, you know, the resiliency more around mental health. The, the inspiration is really around the book that I launched or published, just published the book, uh, right around Christmas time. So the first two months of this year has been super busy with the, the book launch. Um, and then just kind of how the community is forming. So it’s, it’s kind of changing weekly. It’s not something that I thought would kind of evolve in the way that it has. But you know, it has started with kind of healing and pet loss. And, you know, from me writing about it to heal myself to now helping and supporting others to the impact that they have on our mental health and our well-being. So it’s a growing ecosystem and community at the moment that there’s also an element to that, to it that has an interactive journal that people will be able to start to journal with, you know, just obviously the activities that they do with their pets. So probably a lot to take on there and bounced all bounced all over.

Lee Kantor: Yeah. Okay. So, but let’s start at the beginning. So the story begins with you had a pet that passed.

Daniel Popovic: That is correct. Yeah. So where the story begins, Marley was she was a female Doberman, Sherry and I, my wife Sherry, we got her. How long has it been now? It’s probably 11 years ago. She passed when she was nine. So she passed probably about two and a half years ago. And Sherry and I don’t have kids. So she really became our child and took her everywhere. Did everything, you know, with her. Um, Just very much a fur kid. And, you know, as typical with, you know, Dobermans, female Dobermans, you know, they’re protective as well. So just, just an amazing bond and family protector and loved people, you know, loved pets, just a unique personality. And when we lost her, it was kind of a, a soccer punch. One day she’s, she’s with us. She’s okay. The next day we lose her. And the loss wasn’t something that I just thought just how I handled it and how I reacted to it was a significant impact and did not expect the impact, the the way it impacted me, you know, personally, professionally. Uh, and then I just started writing about it. I started doing some research around pet loss and pet grief and just talking to other people, hearing other stories, and just learning about how, how profound of an impact it is. Um, and you know what it kind of means what it does to, to you and how it is different, right? I’ve, I’ve lost a father, I’ve lost jobs, I’ve lost a lot of money to companies. And this impact really, um, took a, it.

Lee Kantor: Hit, it hit differently. Um, and some of it, I would imagine, um, correct me if I’m wrong on this regard, but the way a dog especially is interwoven in your life, it affects the rhythm of your day. Like there are certain rituals that you do that maybe you take for granted when you stop doing them, and all of a sudden they become very visible. Uh, can you talk about how maybe that, um, contributed to some of the grief and it made the grief maybe hit differently.

Daniel Popovic: That yeah, no, that that’s a great point that I mean, and you’re spot on. It’s that void, right? You’ve got, gosh, as you mentioned, it interweaves our daily activities. There’s a handful of things that they really hold us accountable for, right? The, the feeding, the daily activities of walking. But, you know, obviously not every dog might go on a walk. You might have more of a couch potato dog, but there’s an activity, there’s a routine there. Um, you know, the feeding, um, you know, but then you’ve got that companionship, right? So you come home from a rough day of work. Um, you are expecting, you know, what’s about to greet you in that door opens. Um, and it’s the phenomenal relief of, you know what? My day just washed away because of that greeting. And when that greetings gone to your point, the day doesn’t wash away. It still kind of carries itself forward. Those other routines, it, it, it is an emptiness. It’s now, well, how do I, what do I do? How do I fill this emptiness? Because, you know, some of the research I started doing, like these routines, you know, they, they were creatures of habits. They’re creatures of habits. We create this routine where it takes 2 to 5 months and we just do it right.

Daniel Popovic: And then all of a sudden, when it’s gone, it’s gone. It takes time for that to. Settle. It takes time for us to figure out what to do. And that’s where I started talking with a lot of folks that, you know, a lot of people will rush right into another pet because of those those voids. Um, some folks will kind of go into hiding, right? Because they, they, they’re grieving. They don’t know how to talk about it. There’s not really an outlet because, you know, pet grief doesn’t really have a voice. And you might be somebody else might look at you and like, hey, that’s just a dog. It’s like, well, no, it’s not a dog. Um, so it’s those voids that you mentioned that. Yeah. Now that void is gone and I’m trying to figure out how to fill it, you know, not knowing the impact of it. With Sherry and I, it was a little bit different. Um, and this is another thing that’s kind of led me down this path as well. We Marshall, um, was her brother, so we still have him. He actually turns 11 next week. So we’re, you know, we’re in joy. You know, he’s a Doberman as well. And Dobermans don’t typically make it, you know, past ten years. So we’re excited about every extra day that we get with him.

Daniel Popovic: But not only are we grieving, but what we don’t recognize is the pet grief. They grieve as well. And we didn’t notice that with him in the first couple of days. I mean, I was trying the main thing I was trying to do and what I share with other folks is keep with the routine, even when that that pet is no longer around, that routine is no longer around. Keep with it that that’s a way to kind of heal yourself, to slow yourself out of it, because it is an abrupt halt to, you know, to your life, to your, to your well-being. Um, but what we recognized with Marshall, I think it was a couple days later, he started looking for her. So we started noticing, okay, now we got to do something about that. We’ve got to figure out how do we how do we keep him from sliding from a health perspective? Um, so naturally we went out and got another one, which helped and that certainly distracted him. But um, Lee, as you mentioned, it’s those voids, right? It’s that, it’s that unknown or the hidden void of those activities that we do every single day with them. Now it’s gone and it’s extremely disruptive to our lifestyle.

Lee Kantor: So how did the book come about? Was that just part of your healing process? You started writing and journaling and just capturing some of these feelings on paper?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah, yeah, that, that. Yeah. Spot on. That was my healing process. And between you and I, I, I didn’t imagine it going much further than that. But I, you know, the main thing was the healing process. But also, I think the bigger thing for me is it was a way to keep her closer. I, I didn’t want to lose sight of some of the amazing memories and some of the amazing ventures. I mean, obviously, yes, we’ve got all kinds of pictures. Um, you know, that helps. But the writing, the journaling seemed to kind of take it a to the next level. You know, it helped me heal. It helped keep me closer. Um, and from there, I then, and it was, it was funny because I had no structure behind the book. I would sit down one Saturday morning, four hours later, I’ve got 20,000 words. Um, so the writing was easy and all of a sudden within a month, I had, gosh, I had 70,000 words. And I’m like, hang on, there’s a book here. Uh, so I kind of did that. Then I went backwards and I started to structure it and I started talking to folks and I’m like, um, there were two words that people kept talking about when they read what I was putting together. Um, you know, I was trying to capture some beta readers, some feedback because, you know, as I started writing, it was healing me.

Daniel Popovic: But then I started thinking, hey, can my stories help somebody else? And there were two words that people kept saying. One was emotional, which of course it’s going to be right, because I do talk about the loss and the impact in there, but I spend more time talking about the fun stories, the funny routines that we had. And everybody kept coming back saying, this is relatable, this is relatable. And naturally, everybody that has pets, it’s like, you know, you’ve taken them on vacations, you have goofy stories that you’ve had with them. And that’s where it went from. Me just writing a book to heal myself became a little bit more of a movement that, how can I leverage this story to help others that have grieved or that, you know, are might be experiencing loss? Um, there’s, there’s a community around this, but, um, that’s kind of how it’s now evolving. And I launched a podcast as well, where I bring families in basically to talk about their pets. Um, everybody on the episodes that I’ve had so far has lost a pet. So we talk about that and it’s really meant to kind of inspire others to support others, but then help others that maybe that haven’t lost a pet yet. Just kind of prepare them, so to speak, even though you can’t be prepared, but you still want to kind of, you want to have that awareness because when, when that, you know, when that happens, it is a significant impact.

Daniel Popovic: But, um, so it has evolved from, yeah, just me writing bunches of pages to heal myself to now, um, you know, leveraging this, uh, to create a community to support, to help others. And, um, and there’s even bigger impacts like mental health, the, you know, just having pets in your family. This is an astonishing you may or may not know this, I. You know, there’s, uh, a hobby which is a human animal bond research institute. They had a, uh, some research recently where they showed pet ownership saves $22 billion in healthcare costs. And that’s astounding. Now, when I say that and when you when you hear it, or if you would read it, you’re thinking, okay, what do you mean by healthcare costs? Is it is that, you know, healthcare savings on my pet? And I was like, no, that’s healthcare savings on you and I, right? Because, you know, you’ve got things like obesity in there, right? We’re more active with them, but it’s also the mental health association. That’s the significant benefit in how they they support our mental well-being. So I feel like I’m only scratching the surface with how this story has started to unfold.

Lee Kantor: Well, maybe you can give some advice for the listeners out there when it comes to building community. So how did that come about? Where? Okay, I’m publishing a book. Obviously, this is an issue that a lot of people can relate to. How do you take that next step to kind of organizing, serving, and kind of curating a community of like minded people, you know, for a common cause?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah, no, no. Great, great question. So this may, this may answer it. It may not. But what you made me think of when you asked that and mentioned businesses, obviously with businesses listening in on this is you’ve got workplace wellness programs, right? Um, and kind of giving what I say pet grief, pet support, pet loss of voice. And, you know, there’s a lot of great workplace wellness programs out there, but they’re really geared towards you and I towards our health, but it doesn’t recognize or support when somebody loses a pet, you know what happens? How can I support that individual? Because they may need to take time off, right? They’re going to if they’re not taking time off and they’re coming in. Their productivity levels may, may, may be impacted. Um, you know, I had a similar thing happen with me when I lost Marly and this was kind of another part of my inspiration is my leadership at the time was, hey, Dan, we noticed you’re kind of off. You don’t seem the same. What’s going on? And I’m like, are you kidding me? I just kind of told I told you the other day what happened. Uh, do you not understand the impact of on me? Um, so creating more awareness around that. I had a, I had somebody on my podcast, actually, she was one of my very first interviews, the place that she worked at.

Daniel Popovic: She had mentioned her leadership came to her and said, hey, look, if you need time off to grieve, take it. We’re here. What can we do to support you? We understand what that loss means to you, you know, so creating more, you know, workplace wellness programs to kind of support, you know, the families and kind of put a spotlight on this and what it means. And, you know, to have them in our lives, not only to have them in our lives, but the potential impact. Um, when they’re gone. The other thing that I saw some companies do, but their paws at work, there’s this company in the UK, they actually come out to all of the companies, all of the companies. I shouldn’t say it like that. They come out to companies and they bring out for kids. They bring out puppies for a half a day, a few hours, and it’s, it’s for workplace stress relief, so to speak. So just imagine, you know, working in the office, busy as heck. But then all of a sudden, hey, at lunchtime, let’s go hang out and play with the fur kids. And that, that feeling and what that does to kind of wash over relief, um, wash, wash away some of the stress.

Daniel Popovic: Um, it’s things like that that I’m starting to see happen a little bit more in, in various pockets in various areas. So to me, that’s part of, you know, creating that community for kids is a great example. They’re a phenomenal organization here in Atlanta, and I do believe they do events like that. They’ve just started doing that where they will come out to corporations with pets and provide that kind of companionship. Um, but naturally, obviously, you know, they want you to, you know, some way foster rescue and all that stuff. And, and I think it starts to, I think there’s more education around just really, truly what it means having them as a part of our family, what, you know, we know again, about the physical benefits, but it’s really the mental benefits that we get from them that, um, you know, really kind of strengthen us and carry us forward, even with children, right? If you think about younger people or children that may have anxiety or social isolation, pets tend to kind of bring them out of it. Um, so that’s kind of how the community starts to form is around, you know, activities like that. You know, education, you know, kind of like what you and I are talking about.

Lee Kantor: So what do you need more of? How can we help you?

Daniel Popovic: Oh, gosh, just more and more of stuff like this, more of, of creating the awareness. And that’s a great question because what’s, what’s interesting is I reached out to a few rotary clubs today to kind of get out and engage, do some speaking engagements around this. Um, I did a book signing event with fur kids a couple weeks ago. They leveraged it as a fundraiser, which is phenomenal. That’s spot on, how it should be done. We had, um, a pretty sizable crowd come out, very interactive. And it was just a day of recognizing the bond and what it means and obviously talking about loss. Um, so I think it’s just that’s kind of the things that I need is, you know, uh, more opportunities to get, Get this in front of of leaders. Start talking about it. Um. How we can kind of start to put some of these programs together to. You know, just embrace what it means to have pets, um, as a part of. You know, our families, um, everybody should have a pet, you know? Not to sound corny or anything, but, um, you know, but I’m also not going to sit here and say you’re not going to have challenging days.

Daniel Popovic: Um, but you know, those challenging days, you take them in stride and it’s more they make you a better person. Um, I can tell you Marley has inspired me to do a lot. I’ve done some interesting business, entrepreneurial things, um, from a technology perspective with pet care and rewarding people. So they’re, they’re inspirational, they’re supportive. Um, I’ve had people talk about how they’ve healed them through breakups, um, but then reunited with, you know, their wife after they previously broke up. So, um, I think to, you know, again, going back to answer your question is, is there any opportunity to get out in front of some of these, you know, civic organizations and some of these wellness programs to come out and talk about this and, um, how to create more synergies between the, for kids of the world’s, you know, the Atlanta Humane Society’s of the world and these organizations to, um, to do some of these events and just kind of the education around the mental health benefits that, um, come from pet ownership.

Lee Kantor: So if somebody wants to get Ahold of the book or join your community, is there a website? Is there kind of a central location that can answer some questions for folks?

Daniel Popovic: Yeah. So it’s pop dot pet just pop up. Every pet has a pop ad, right? So pop dot pet, um, that will then take them to the website. They’ll see a link to the podcast where they can hear about some of these amazing stories. Um, and I’ve got one tomorrow that I’m doing with somebody that wrote this book called A Field Guide for Pet Care Givers. Um, there is a whole new there’s a whole movement around end of life care for pets. Um, which, um, is really interesting looking at that. You know, you see a lot of innovation around the end of life care for like you and I in aging adults, but you don’t think about that with pets. Um, but sorry, going back to your questions, pop, pop dot pet, you’ll see a link to the podcast and you’ll also see a link to the book, uh, and it’s on Amazon so you can search by my name, Daniel Popovic, um, and find a link to that book. And I’ve just started writing book number two. Um, so I’m kind of excited to get that out. And it’s just the feedback that I’ve been getting from everybody that’s inspiring me to, to write these books. And like I said, it’s different. It’s just more Storytelling. It’s it’s bringing people in. I mean, it’s, it’s nervous at the same time because you’re getting a really sneak peek into into my heart and how I operate because I kind of spill it out in the books.

Daniel Popovic: Um, you know, and then I have, but I have reflective questions in there as well to kind of draw people in that, um, you know, for example, um, if we’ve got time to share what might the, this first book where the paw prints lead, I lead with an episode with Marshall where he flipped his stomach. I was on an office call, right? Shari comes running up and she’s like, something’s wrong with Marshall. Something’s wrong with Marshall. And I’m like, you know, I, I kind of, you know, Pooh poohed it off, right? Because I was on a call. But luckily the call ended. And then I walked down and I’m like, okay, something’s visibly visibly wrong with him. So we’re calling around and they’re like, you need to get him to the E.R. right away. And you know, we’re in North Georgia. We’re way up here, you know, by, uh, the Dawsonville Outlets up 400 and closest air was 30 minutes away. And this was a Friday. You know, end of day. So you’ve got rush hour. Now, granted, I’m heading south. So you’re thinking that there’s not going to be rush hour way up here.

Daniel Popovic: Well what happens? There’s an accident of all things that I’m right behind. And, um, luckily it’s moving, but on both sides of the street, there’s a police officer and a tow truck attendant. They’re converging into the intersection to block it off. And Li, I was like, heck no, I’m not stopping. You’re gonna have to do something to make me stop. I kind of broke through it, and I just flew down to exit ten to get him to the E.R. and, you know, she saved his life. I mean, that’s one of those life saving things. But that’s that’s one of, you know, obviously there’s other stories, you know, stories in there just talking about fun stuff, but there’s reflective questions in there that as you read the story, it then makes you think about, hey, how did you handle a stressful situation? What was the outcome? Um. I mean, you know, I was panicking because I knew that was a thing of life or death, uh, with a flip stomach. And, um, but that’s kind of how the book is strung out that just, you know, putting the heart out there and the things that we experience, the, the good things, the, you know, the challenging things, but then the reflective questions to draw the audience in.

Lee Kantor: Well, congratulations on all the momentum. I’m sorry that this tragedy is what spurred this, but it’s important work that you’re doing and we appreciate you for doing it. And the website one more time is papads dot p a w p a d s dot p e t. Dan Popovic, thank you so much for sharing your story today.

Daniel Popovic: Thank you Lee, I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity.

Lee Kantor: All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.

Tagged With: Daniel Popovic, PawPads

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