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Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston. Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio is my pleasure to introduce you to my guest today, Justine Carino, a licensed psychotherapist, speaker, and host of the podcast thoughts from the Couch. Justine remains a group maintains a group psychotherapy practice in New York, where she works with individuals, couples and families to help reduce anxiety and depression, improve relationships, and build healthier boundaries so people can live more aligned lives. In addition to her therapy practice, Justine coaches ambitious women through her program, the balanced Boss, helping them manage perfectionism, anxiety and burnout while building careers and lives that feel sustainable. Her insights have been featured in major outlets including The New York Times, CNN, Forbes, cosmopolitan, and The Huffington Post, and she was recognized as one of the 100 Women to Know Across America in 2025 and named among Msns top ten Health voices to follow. Justine, welcome to the show.

Justine Carino: Hi, Trisha. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you so much for that intro.

Trisha Stetzel: Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to have you on and have you on the other side of the table. We’re going to talk a little bit about your podcast today. Before we get there, I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about you.

Justine Carino: Yeah. So in addition to what I do with my career, I’m also a wife. I’m a mom. I have two little kids and a third on the way, actually due in June. So I have my hands full, I can tell you that. Um, I was a trained dancer. I grew up in the dance studio doing ballet and spent summers in Manhattan training. And I thought I wanted to be a dancer until I was a freshman in college and said, nope, I want to do this instead. Um, so and then my newest hobby is horseback riding, which has been a dream of mine forever. And I finally made it a priority for myself this past June, almost a year ago, and started taking lessons. But now that I’m six months pregnant, I’m not getting on a horse. So I had to pause that for a little bit.

Trisha Stetzel: That is exciting. Well, one congratulations on the bun in the oven. That is amazing. And I, I love that you are Are who you spend time with. Even in your business. I think that that’s really important because you can not just empathize, but sympathize in some cases around being that bold business owner as well as a mom and a wife, and enjoy some hobbies on top of that, I love horseback riding. That’s fun. Okay, um, why don’t we start with your podcast? Because I’m very interested to learn more, and I know that listeners on my show will likely be very interested to know more about your podcast so they can tune in. So you host thoughts from the couch?

Justine Carino: Yes.

Trisha Stetzel: Tell us what inspired you? Number one, to start that and then let’s talk more about what the show is about.

Justine Carino: Absolutely. So I have been a listener of podcasts for years and driving around in New York, there’s always a 30 minute, 30 minute commute somewhere, So I was like, I need my podcast, but I always used podcasts to learn. I’m not the one listening to the crime stories. I have always picked topics that teach me something, whether it’s nutrition, fitness, self-improvement, how to run a business. So I always admired the podcast I was listening to. And so I always said to myself, maybe one day I’ll have one. Maybe I will have something to teach people. And so, lo and behold, it was the pandemic and the world shut down. And honestly, my practice was thriving. I mean, it was a mental health crisis. People from all walks of life were reaching out for support. And so I went fully virtual as a therapist. And before that, I was such a hater of virtual therapy. I’m like, who would do that? Like, I want to see my therapist in person. Well, things change. You comedy, but I had a little extra time because I wasn’t commuting as much and I said, maybe I will start a podcast now. The world needs mental health conversations. So I figured out how to record, and I bought a microphone and one thing led to another. And I remember being in the grocery store just downloading ideas of guests I could have on. There was no rhyme or reason. There was no theme. It was like, oh, this friend of mine is excellent with this, this, this colleague’s excellent at that.

Justine Carino: And I had 20 guests by the time I was done shopping at stop and Shop. So then I just put it out there into the world and that’s how it started. But it has transformed. So at one point I learned, okay, I can’t just have a mish mash of topics here. One week I’m talking about this, the next week I’m talking about that. How do I get like a listenership here? So I pivoted to specifically talk about anxiety. Perfectionism because I’m an anxiety treatment expert, so I treat generalized anxiety, social phobias, um, you name it, all the anxiety disorders. I do a lot of exposure therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy. So I pivoted to those conversations. Once I started doing that, that also then pivoted to a female audience and it turned into how do I support specifically women struggling with anxiety and perfectionism that are running households and working? That then took another pivot to be even more specific to female entrepreneurs who are struggling with burnout. And how do I maintain all these roles in my life? Like, I love my business, I’m so passionate about my career, but I want a family. But how the heck do I even find time for myself. And like you said in the beginning of this conversation, it’s kind of speaking to people like me that want to have a family and hobbies and a career.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, because that feels practically impossible, especially when you’re starting a business or you have a business. Yeah. Oh my goodness, I, I love that your show has taken such a journey over the years. Uh, I’m in the same boat. What started as not where it is today, although the, the premise of it, the idea, the vision, uh, the reason why is still the same. And I feel like yours is too. So, um, I’m sure that people can find thoughts from the couch on all of their favorite podcast channels. Yep. Tell me more about your listenership. So who out there should be listening to your show?

Justine Carino: This is, um, a woman who is really Ambitious, really excited about something she wants to create. She doesn’t wait for people to do it for her. She’s doing it herself. She’s learned if I want to make something happen, it’s going to be on me. So she’s very resourceful and kind of fearless at the same time. That can lead to overwhelm. That could lead to stress because she cares about other things, too. She’s passionate about the business, but she’s equally as passionate maybe about her marriage or having a family life or travel or whatever else it might be. She’s learned that she has to and wants to divide her attention as equally as she as she can. And we talk about the word balance like there is no balance. It’s hard. Nothing’s perfect like cutting a pizza pie. And you have eight perfect slices. They equally get attention. It’s more of how you define what balance might feel like. You might feel balanced working 25 hours a week so you have more time for other things. Maybe for you, balance is 50 hours a week because that’s the priority at work. And then there’s, you know, the other 50% is elsewhere. Who knows? You get to figure out how to define that. And I’m trying to help women figure that out through these various episodes and guests that I have on that can talk to that type of woman.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. I love that. All right, ladies, so you know where to find it. Thoughts from the couch on your favorite podcast channel with Justine Carino at CARINO. If you’re looking for the host name, uh, you meant we mentioned you’ve mentioned a couple of times perfectionism. So let’s dive in just a little bit. I know you work with a lot of ambitious women. Those are the women that are attracted to the work that you’re doing. So how does that perfectionism that many of us have often lead to anxiety and burnout.

Justine Carino: Absolutely. Great question. I think for many of us, perfectionism was a coping mechanism, a way to handle life, um, in reaction to any challenges we may have had. So, you know, being a therapist, I’m going to go back in time. I’m going to talk about your childhood and your adolescence and your role in your family of origin. That perfectionism, um, was reinforced because you were rewarded for it in some way, either by parents, either by your social life, by teachers, by yourself. You just felt better by doing things really well. But it’s also a shield from shame. Sometimes we’re so afraid of failure and mistakes. We think if I do everything perfectly and everything well, I won’t have any criticism. No, there won’t be negative feedback. Because if I get that, I’m going to feel ashamed of myself. So let me just do it all perfectly. So it’s a shield against shame. And so when we’re living our lives through that lens, it’s really hard to pivot. It’s really hard to let go. We become very rigid. Things have to be a certain way. And I always say there’s three thinking traps perfectionists struggle with. The first is catastrophizing. We take one little piece of information that can be a little risky or threatening to ourselves or our business, or whatever it is we love, and we blow it out of proportion and we become really reactive.

Justine Carino: So then we try really hard to avoid the catastrophe. Most of the time that catastrophe is not happening. We’re just worried that it could. The second is the shoulds or the should nots. I should be making this much money. I shouldn’t ever make a mistake. No one should ever be mad at me. Right. Um, so these shoulds are like these rules we also create that are rigid. And if we go against them, which we will, because most of the time they’re very unrealistic. We feel the shame and the guilt. And then the third thinking trap is this all or nothing? I’m either a success or a failure. That project was excellent or it sucked, right? I’m an expert or I know nothing. There’s no room for that middle ground. So when we get used to thinking in these ways, we create tremendous anxiety and stress for ourselves. And then we get burnt out because we’re constantly striving for something that we may not be able to actually realistically attain.

Trisha Stetzel: I’m just sitting with all of that information, by the way. Thank you for sharing all of that. And perfectionism is a way for us to deal with shame, which then leads to anxiety and burnout because of all the should and shouldn’t and the Astrophe isms, I think. I think that’s what you said. I’m trying.

Justine Carino: Yes.

Trisha Stetzel: Catastrophizing. Yeah. Uh, but really making things bigger than they should be and the all or nothing. Uh, those are things that I, I know I struggle with, and I’m sure that women who are listening today have struggled with that as well. I do want to talk about balance because I think that’s important. But before we get there, I know there are some ladies listening already, Justine, that would love to connect with you. So what is the best way for them to do that?

Justine Carino: Absolutely. My website is Justine carino.com. Um, so they can set up a direct inquiry through the website there. My email is Justine at carino counseling.com. It will be me answering that. And I’m also on Instagram and I’m always in my DMs. And that is, um, at thoughts from the couch.

Trisha Stetzel: At thoughts from the couch, I love that. Thank you. All right, let’s talk about balance. You’ve already mentioned it a few times. And I think that even perfectionism and the anxiety and the burnout that come from that create this imbalance in everything that we do because we want to be great at everything. So, so many of us struggle with this idea of work life balance. I like to call it integration because it is all just part of life and the work that we’re doing. Do you think that having balance is actually possible? Or how do we get to a place that we’re comfortable, even if there is no balance that’s possible?

Justine Carino: It goes back to uncovering how we define what is successful in our life, and how we do. That is getting very clear on what we currently value. And once we get that clarity, we set boundaries around those values. And then it starts to feel like balance for us, right? So it’s a little formula that I teach women to uncover. And then once they get there, they feel like a sense of relief, right? And we have to be flexible because what we value changes based on our life cycle stages. Just naturally, what you valued as a high school student is going to be different than what you value as a college student. What you value as a single person is going to be different than what you value in a partnership. What you value as a woman with no children may be very different than what you value with children, and the more children you have. So we every life cycle phase has to be a trigger for us to say, okay, what is important right now? Where do I want to put my efforts in energy? Um, I’ll use myself as an example. Life got really easy. I have an eight year old and a five year old and I was like, whew. Like I have some Freedom again, and I’m killing it with work. And I’m going to these meetings and I’m signing up for every networking group because I have more time. And then boom, oh wait, we’re having another baby. So it’s the grief of, oh no, I’m not going to have my time. Damn it. Um, but I know I’ll get it again, but I’m already sorting out. Okay, I’m doing June. What am I saying goodbye to for now. It’s a chapter, but then putting boundaries around those values and priorities for the season I’m entering. And I think women have to constantly be flexible with shifting those values around and prioritizing the boundaries around it. Then they will feel the balance.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. Yes. Yes and yes. And I never even thought about the things that we value having a life cycle or a cycle that goes along with where you’re at in life and what’s most important to you. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. How do we how do we go about or even start setting better boundaries so that our lives align with our values? I hear you say, okay, well, I’m having another baby, so I’m just going to set boundaries. And that’s just the way it is. So many of us struggle with that dominant, just this is what I’m going to do. So where can I start if I just can’t make a decision on where those boundaries are?

Justine Carino: Absolutely. So I first want women to like, really, you could Google a list of values. There are decks on Amazon value decks, like get some clarity to get you brainstorming of like, what are the top five things that I want to prioritize? Is it connection? Is it community? Is it family? Whatever it is, once you have that clarity, take a look at your actual life. Take an inventory, look over your month calendar and see where you’re spending your time, how you’re spending it, and if that flow feels good, including the energy output for that flow. And get real, get honest and say, is my current life really a reflection of these values? Sometimes it’s yes. Many times it’s no. And that’s where you’re going to start. And you’re going to look at and say, okay, this thing that I’m doing, maybe I’m the coach of the cheer squad for my daughter. And that was fun. But now I’m realizing I can’t show up 100% to that and the way I want to. But another mom, take that over. I’m going to let this go. So when the signup comes next time, I know this is the one thing I’m going to say no to or clear out, right? And it doesn’t have to be as big as declining a volunteer role.

Justine Carino: It could be little things, right? Look at your calendar. How much time are you spending working outside of your work hours? Maybe we just pick one night that you’re not doing that right. So we take little baby steps. And psychologically, the baby steps are helpful because you’re scared to make this change. You’re worried something bad will happen if you give up this task. So you need a little baby step. So your brain accommodates and says, mm, that wasn’t as scary as I thought. I didn’t work till 8:00 at night on Wednesday, and everything was fine and everyone survived. And maybe I could do two nights a week of that and you start to learn it’s not as scary as you thought it would be. And those baby steps over time accumulate, and within six months, you kind of have a whole new schedule that is reflective of your values.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. Which all comes back to where we started, which is the we’ve got to get out of that perfectionism mindset and really give ourselves some grace to do things that we don’t need to do right now? Yes, because things are not going to fall apart if you don’t work for three hours on Wednesday night. Did you guys hear that, ladies? You have permission to not work on Wednesday night? Yeah.

Justine Carino: Exactly. Because we’re the women that want to do it all and actually can have some fun with. We like all of those things, but we have to pick. Unfortunately, we have to pick. That’s the reality.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. All right. I want to talk about your coaching program because not only are you seeing patients one on one, but you also have a coaching program, the balanced boss.

Justine Carino: Yes. Tell me more about it. I have to say my own inspiration. I wish I had a coach at one point that understood all of this. Like I’ve had business coaches who really focused on strategy and that was helpful, but they couldn’t really relate to the other parts of my life outside of my business. Um, and some of the business coaches I’ve worked with, like work like 1,000,000 hours a week. I’m like, well, I don’t want that. And I, you’re giving me all these tasks and I can’t get it all done. Like, I got two kids at home too. Did you forget? So I wish I had that. So I was like, you know what? There’s got to be other female entrepreneurs that want to combine strategy with psychology. And that’s what I dig into. And I really have found that the perfectionism a lot of these women struggle with block their income. Um, they’re a bottleneck to making more money because there’s the over control, there’s a fear of taking risks. I’m afraid to delegate and hire more help. I’m going to do it all myself. That leads to burnout. And actually, um, gets you stuck in a plateau because you’re not scaling ways that you could if you just let go a little bit. So this program is a three month coaching program, one on one with me where we meet an hour a week and I go through everything with you.

Justine Carino: I want to know your family of origin, what your great grandmother did as a career, if she had one, where they immigrated from, how those beliefs form who you are all the way down to. What do you literally do every day? I want to know every minute of your schedule and see where we can switch things around. And I want to know your business and the business goals you have and what could be blocking. So we unpack it all psychology and strategy. Um, and we also talk to each other between sessions via Voxer. It’s this like little walkie talkie. So clients live can be like, oh, I tried to set that boundary today and I didn’t do it. What do you think? How can I pivot? So it provides that in-between session access. Um, and I have a ton of PDFs that help reinforce the skills they’re learning. I provide resources to other podcasts, books. I just want people to really dive in and do it consistently for three months and come out of there just feeling better about their life overall, because it’s more in alignment with what they’re trying to do.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. Okay. So where can listeners find out more about the Balanced boss?

Justine Carino: Yeah, it’s right on my website. Justine carino.com. Right on the front page there. There’s a tab, click it, it’ll tell you all about it. And I offer consult calls to see if people are fit.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. I love that. What a, what a very interesting, you know, being a leadership coach myself and even thinking about digging into someone’s history and beyond just their parents, but their grandparents and their great grandparents and the insight that you can gather, uh, as a psychotherapist from that information to help them really figure out where they are. Wow. That’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Justine Carino: It’s fascinating, actually, so much how we show up as a business owner is really coming from so much history. The roles we played in our family of origin is probably the role you’re playing as a business owner, and we gotta see what’s working for you or not.

Trisha Stetzel: Absolutely. You brought up something that I think is really important, and we’ll tackle this last thing before we get to the the really hard last question that I’m going to ask you. But you talked about the control as business owners that that we have. And I think as women we do maybe even do that more so. And we’re not making the type of money that we could be because we’re the bottleneck in our business and not hiring people. And not all of those things where it’s this founder trap. What would you say to the ladies out there who are listening? They’re like, yeah, that’s me. I’m a either a recovering control freak or maybe I’m just, you know, finally, finally coming to terms with I’m, I’m a control freak. Uh, or just knowing that you’re that, that bottleneck. As the founder.

Justine Carino: I, one of my homework assignments for the women I coach is for the next week, I want you tracking all of the things you do in your business, literally. And it doesn’t have to be, it could be bullet points, right? And then at the end of the week, we’re going to look at it in the next session and say, okay, do you are you the person that literally has to do this task? Or can we train someone else to do it? And then we do the math. Okay, if that hour a day was spent serving a client, and if you charge X amount that hour a day, and then you paid someone else to do those tasks for that hour, usually the math is math that you are still going to bring a profit home. If you took on maybe 1 or 2 extra clients a week and delegated some of those tasks. So we take an inventory and then we we start slowly. Can we hire one contractor to take over this load. Can we increase each, um, client fee by 2%? 5%? We do a lot of math to figure out how this will work in your business. And before you know it, people learn to love. Oh my God, how did I survive without this help before? And I’m making more money and have a little bit more time.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. When you look at the hourly rate that your your own hourly rate in your business and you’re changing the trash can liners or sweeping the floor. Is that really what you want to get paid for? That’s a big deal. I love that you’re bringing that to light with these ladies you’re working with. Okay. So as we get to the back end, just one last question. If someone’s listening today, if a ladies listening today that feels overwhelmed trying to do everything perfectly, like everything we’ve talked about today really resonates with her. What’s just one small step she can take this week to reduce the stress and move toward a more balanced life.

Justine Carino: I have so many different responses, but I’ll pick one. Go back on your word meaning if you have all these commitments this week and you you’re saying, oh, I wish I did not have to do that this week. I dare you to cancel it. I dare you to text that person or send that email and say, I’m sorry I committed to this, but I’m unable to do it this week. I hope you understand. Period. Day one. And then deal with those feelings. It’s going to be uncomfortable. You’re going to have some guilt to manage, but it’s okay. You’re allowed to change your mind. You’re allowed to pull back on a commitment and put yourself first, and you will start to learn more and more what to say yes to and what to say no to.

Trisha Stetzel: And the person on the other side of that note is more forgiving of you than you are of yourself.

Justine Carino: Always. And if they’re not, you got a question that.

Trisha Stetzel: That’s right, then they shouldn’t be in your circle. Yeah. Bottom line. Absolutely.

Justine Carino: Absolutely.

Trisha Stetzel: Justin, thank you so much for spending time with me today. This time went by so fast. I want to have you back so we can just talk about saying no. I think that’s a really big thing, especially for women. We say yes to a lot of things that we really shouldn’t or no we shouldn’t, and we do anyway. So we’re going to circle back on that topic the next time you come to visit.

Justine Carino: Yeah, I’d be more than happy.

Trisha Stetzel: One very last time. Where can people connect with you best?

Justine Carino: Absolutely. Um, Instagram. I’m always there in the DMs. My handles thoughts from the couch. My website is Justine carino.com. And if you want to email me, it’s Justine at carino counseling.com.

Trisha Stetzel: Awesome. Thank you so much. And you guys go to your favorite podcast channel and listen to at least one episode. You probably should just follow thoughts from the couch with Justine Carino. Thank you again.

Justine Carino: Thank you. Trisha.

Trisha Stetzel: All right, you guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Justine and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, a veteran or Houston leader ready to grow. And be sure to follow, rate and review the show. Of course, it helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.

Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Houston, Texas. It’s time for Houston Business Radio. Now, here’s your host.

Trisha Stetzel: Hello, Houston. Trisha Stetzel here bringing you another episode of Houston Business Radio. It is my pleasure to introduce you to my guest today, Wendi Pannell, today founder of Pannell Consulting and creator of business. Jim. We’re going to touch on that in a few minutes. Wendi is a business strategist and fractional COO who helps growing companies turn ambitious visions into real execution. With more than two decades of experience leading operations and teams at companies like HP and GE, she works with founders and leadership teams to bring clarity to priorities, install strong execution rhythms, and reduce founder dependency so businesses can scale effectively. In addition to her consulting work, Wendi recently launched Business Gem, a structured 90 day accountability program designed to help women entrepreneurs strengthen their leadership, build momentum and grow their businesses through community and disciplined execution. Known for her practical and direct approach, Wendi helps leaders move from ideas to measurable progress. Wendi, welcome to the show.

Wendi Pannell: Thank you so much. I took notes on several of the description items.

Trisha Stetzel: I saw you doing that in the background. I’m like, okay, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Wendi Pannell: So it was good. There’s lots of dialog.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about you.

Wendi Pannell: Yes. So, um, I have three boys. I’ll start with that because I think that paints a picture of the chaos in my personal life that I also have to keep under control and also just let happen. Um, and yeah, live in a small town in southwest Virginia. So Blacksburg, Virginia, home of the Virginia Tech Hokies. A lot of people know about and, you know, I just, I really love what I do, both from a, you know, fractional COO with small to medium sized tech companies to my recent kind of role in creation of the business gym, which is truly a passion project that allows me to honestly just be more present in my hometown and engage with the community. Um, and that’s just brought me so much unexpected joy. So I’m really getting to like do passion projects and my day job that pays the bills, um, all the time. And yeah, I’m just loving it.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. That’s fantastic.

Trisha Stetzel: So it brings something to mind. Wendi. And I think a lot of us women struggle with is the, uh, the old adage of work life balance, which is now really integration, I believe. How do you keep it all together?

Wendi Pannell: Definitely a lot of plates spinning, I think. Uh, when I first had not first had kids, like I was maybe ten years in, I realized it wasn’t about balance. It was about being present in the times that I needed to be present. Um, it was some days I was 100% a mom or 75% mom and 25% an employee probably at the time because I didn’t have my own business. But it’s also about setting expectations, right? With my husband, with my kids, with my employer. Now it’s with myself. I have lots of conversations with myself, but setting those expectations and knowing that sometimes somebody’s getting more of me than the other, and that’s perfectly okay.

Trisha Stetzel: Oh, did you guys hear that it is okay to be a mom on a day that you need to be a mom, and it’s okay to be a business owner on a day that you need to be a business owner. And what I heard you say, Wendi, and I think it’s great advice is you got to have guardrails or guidelines with your family, yourself and your business.

Wendi Pannell: Yeah, 100%. It’s setting the expectations that, um, you know, this is how I’m going to be showing up or not showing up like, hey, I’m sorry, I’m going to miss the practice or the game or the event or to my employers, the same. The other thing my husband and I kind of decided on early on is when one of us would take a new role for three months, we could be less at home because we knew we were getting integrated into this new role, this new job. And so that kind of communication expectations just just rolled into when one of us have a big project or a client delivery, we just know what’s going to be there or not be there.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so this reminds me that you’re a fractional COO, or that’s the role you typically take when you’re working with other companies. Can we talk about that? There’s a lot of fractional C acronyms out there these days. So when we when you say fractional COO, what does that mean?

Wendi Pannell: Well, when I first went out on my own, you know, I, when I worked for any company, I was all that always that person in the organization that you could just drop in and ask me to go fix something, go figure out what they’re doing, like make it better, make it more efficient, make money, shut it down. Maybe. Um, so when I decided to go out on my own, I didn’t know what I was. I was like, aren’t people just going to hire me because I get stuff done? Um, because I’ve never done like the sales and marketing. I didn’t understand when you’re out on your own, you have to tell people what you do. They don’t just know what they do. What I know, and quite frankly, a lot of my contacts were in big fortune 500 255 companies, and that’s not who I was wanting to help. So I actually joined a cohort of other like minded and kind of same space, same season. And I explained to them what I wanted to do, which was to go in and help companies be more efficient and get things done and execute. And one of them were like, well, you sound like a fractional COO. And I was like, oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. Now the fractional space is definitely more saturated than it was, which is good because more businesses understand what a fractional consultant can bring.

Wendi Pannell: And essentially it’s you are getting the full breadth and depth and season of a professional of a person at a fraction of the cost. For me, it’s about working with companies that are not ready for a full time CEO. Maybe they’re in that scaling stage, or maybe they have a COO, but they are growing so fast they need other focus or expertise or another set of hands. Um, so because I’ve been in the tech space for, I hate saying two decades or 25 years, it sounds so long, but for a long time, um, I have just seen a lot of different things. I have a lot of different experiences, so I’m able to jump into a company and get acclimated very quickly. I think that’s one of my superpowers. I can kind of look around and absorb what’s going on and listen. I don’t come in and say, we need to do this right away unless there’s a very clear and obvious problem. Um, but the things that I do implement right away are just basic standards that, quite frankly, any company, I don’t care where you’re at if you don’t have these three things, they’re the things that you need to do right away. So fractional is just really enabling growing companies to get super focused and make sure that they’re executing.

Trisha Stetzel: Okay, so let’s talk about that execution piece. Um, I’ve heard you say, and we connected on this, that a lot of companies think they have a strategy problem when they really have an execution problem. So what does that look like in real life or what have you seen play out?

Wendi Pannell: So it’s funny. That is what I wrote down because I had the business at the beginning. You’re like business strategist. I really need to reframe that differently. The strategy is honestly to do more execution because a lot of companies will spend a lot of time talking about or figuring out what that strategy is, but then they put it up on the shelf that I had over here, and they don’t talk about it again. So what I really am going to bring in to companies is making sure they know exactly what matters. What is that one, two or maybe three things that need to get done this quarter this month. I usually think in quarters that’s just the corporate side of me. Um, you know, what is that that needs to get done and let’s talk about it every week. Like with the people that matter with your execution team. Let’s talk about that one thing and give it a status, because we’ve been really clear about what good looks like, what success looks like. Um, one of my favorite analogies, I love prosecco, but I say champagne. I want businesses to know when they can pop that champagne. Like when do they need to start chilling the champagne? So they can pop that champagne. And you can’t do that unless you know specifically about where you’re going. So a lot of companies feel like they have goals and they probably do, but they probably have conversations too often about, well, are we there? Did we reach it? Is this. You know what? No it’s not. So helping them get super clear about what that goal is, um, is I think, a game changer. And then talking about it, taking that strategy and putting it in action, you know, building a roadmap so that everyone can kind of see where we’re going and, and they know, yes, we’re going to do that, but not yet because we need to get these few things in line first. So it’s really about my strategy is just about more execution and talking more about what you’re executing on.

Trisha Stetzel: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. You guys are hearing it now, this practical and direct approach that Wendi has and something that I really, really love, something else that you focus a lot on is this founder dependency. And I, I think that we talk about it a lot and our founders are hearing it, but they’re not actually doing anything about being that dependent or the dependency being on the founder. So how do leaders start building systems and leadership inside of their company? So it doesn’t just become dependent or stay dependent on them?

Wendi Pannell: This one is tricky because it’s also very much a feelings thing and a trust thing, which is something that a lot of business owners or founders don’t want to talk about or don’t even recognize, like they probably see the dependency is, oh, the team needs me or I built this company. Of course, I’m supposed to know and do and be responsible for everything. Or, you know, I am so busy and, um, and it almost feels good because you are needed even as the company is growing, which I get it like that all does feel good. Like there’s a side of me as a mom that I’m like, oh, you don’t you don’t want to come home even though you’ve graduated. Like you don’t want to hang out. It hurts, I get it. Um, but not, but, and I think that a lot of founders get burnt out and frustrated and are kept up late at night because they’ve got a great team, but things aren’t moving. They haven’t seen progress. Progress. They can’t name the progress. If they have a board, they don’t have clear visibility into. These are the things we’re getting done. Here’s how we’re using your money. Um, so I think founders first need to recognize that they are the bottleneck, right? If everything has to run through them, the company is not moving as fast as it could. And you probably have maybe unhappy employees, right? You hired people to do a certain job.

Wendi Pannell: And I feel like when you remove yourself as a bottleneck and you get really clear about where you’re trying to go and how you’re going to measure success as a founder or a CEO, it’s now just like giving your entire team capes. They’re all going to become superheroes for you and for the business. And things are just going to get done faster. So it’s really about recognizing that you are the bottleneck because every answer, every decision has to go through you. And if you’re at a certain stage of growth, it’s also going to be about making sure that you have the right people in the right seats. What I see oftentimes, and is also a very much a feelings and a difficult conversation is the people that got you here are not the people that that could get you to the next stage. And recognizing and understanding that and taking actions to make sure you have the right people in place is kind of another factor of that, because it might be that you’re holding on to everything. As a founder or a CEO, because you don’t have somebody to trust that you can hand it off to. So they really have to find the people that they trust, which mean that they are capable, capable, and they understand your vision and they’re able to help you articulate your vision.

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. Thank you for leading with its emotional right. Being a founder and building a business is very emotional. And I think sometimes we just categorize that as being in control of everything. Yeah. And I love that you said put, let allow the people on your team to put on their capes. I like to consider it a gift to those who are on your team so that they too can, um, grow and get better. All right. I know we are already halfway through and there are some ladies and gentlemen that are listening today that already want to connect to you and learn more about what it is that you’re doing. Wendi. So where is the best place for them to connect with you?

Wendi Pannell: Yeah, I am very active on LinkedIn. I share my thoughts and what I really think about things. So definitely find me on LinkedIn. Wendi with an I panel, two ns, two L’s. Um, and then my website also just kind of puts it out there. Like I like to think and how I kind of, um, how I think about working with businesses. So those are two great places to connect with me just to understand more about who I am and what I like to do.

Trisha Stetzel: Fantastic. Thank you Wendi. And as always, you guys, I’ll put that in the show notes as well. So if you’re sitting in front of your computer, you can just point and click and get directly to Wendi with an I panel with two ns and two L’s. All right, Wendi, I want to shift just a little bit to, um, women in business and accountability. So tell me what you’re up to and let’s talk more about that.

Wendi Pannell: So this was definitely not something that was on my 2025 bingo card. Um, actually one of my objectives in 2025, I’ve always been very involved in women in technology. So it usually run through local tech councils. I was kind of at a season in my career where I wanted to be more intentional about how I was helping women, like how could I give back because I’m in a season of my life where I have the bandwidth and the energy to give back. And so I kind of wrote it off because I was just so busy with the fractional COO stuff that I had not found that thing. And I joined a local coworking space and they asked me to do a series like a talking series. And I did it on, I actually called it UGG goals, right? Because a lot of people, especially for smaller businesses, are like, goals are for corporate. That’s not for like my small business. So I did the session and it ended up being women business owners that joined. And afterwards they were all talking and they said, I really, you know, I know what I need to do. I know these are things that I need to do, but I just really need somebody to hold me accountable. And as this, like new entrepreneur, uh, I was like, oh, like, I think I can help with that because I had come up through GE where we did cohorts and, you know, had these concepts of bringing small like groups of people together.

Wendi Pannell: Um, and GE was like actually the different panels. So we had health, health care, um, banking airplanes, like trains, right? All of the different industries. And so I’m like, well, what about this? And so I, um, with another woman that had already been kind of coaching, we’re talking about creating a group of women. And I know as a woman entrepreneur myself and founder that in the beginning I had the hardest time investing in myself. Like I was like, I shouldn’t spend money because I’m not making money yet. And so I just kind of scoped it out to be, let’s do 90 days. So a quarter, right? Going back to my corporate, um, let’s do 90 days. And you were going to pick one, one big goal that’s going to move your company forward. And then we’re going to meet weekly as a group and we’re going to hold each other accountable. And you know, I would do some coaching about what I had seen in my own business. And, and also just quite honestly, bringing all my corporate lessons learned into these smaller businesses, which many of them had not been in corporate, like they’ve always been entrepreneurs or they hadn’t experienced some of the systems or things that you could put in place.

Wendi Pannell: And so they were like, yes, eventually it did take me some convincing to get some women to sign up. It goes back to that, oh, I don’t have the money. I shouldn’t convince, I should not invest in myself. So the first time I got four, um. And at the end they were like, you’re going to do this again, right? Like we’re going to keep going and we’re going to do this in Q1. And so I really didn’t plan on that, but I was like, okay. And then in the second cohort, I’ve got seven. Um. The other thing I would do, I want to add this in because I think it’s important because I’ve had coaches that did not go well that were not a good fit. I said if you do not get 100% return on your investment through new clients, through time saved, I will give you all of your money back. I wasn’t trying to earn money on this. I was really just trying to kind of support them and get them to invest in themselves. Because when you invest in yourself, you also change your mindset about the importance of yourself and the importance of your business.

Wendi Pannell: And so I was passionate about that. If no, if at some time they weren’t, now they did have to show up like to ten of the 12 sessions and they had to show that they were putting in the work and the effort. Um, so the next go round, I’ll probably get at least those same three women back again and hopefully some of the new ones. But it’s just brought me so much joy to be able to take what I’ve learned over the years from small and big businesses and give these women different perspective, but also a group that when they walk in, you know, to our small little conference room, they don’t have to explain the kind of day they’ve had. They’re all entrepreneurs. They’re all wearing multiple hats, taking care of parents, taking care of children, you know, being in relationships, also doing other things in the community. They just know today I might be an exhausted, and I’m just going to sit over here and absorb what all of you other women are putting in. But I’m taking things away. So just that joy of bringing amazing women together and helping them to grow their business in a very systematic way It’s just been amazing.

Trisha Stetzel: That right up my alley and the whole reason that we were introduced to each other in the first place, right. Uh, because of the work that we do. I, we, before we started recording, we were talking about in-person versus virtual. So tell me what you’ve seen in this first. Now going into your second cohort, the difference it makes having women come together in person.

Wendi Pannell: Yeah. I love, uh, these women too, because they’re like, Wendi, you should scale this. Like you should take it online and, and get women from all over. And honestly, I would love to, because I would love to have that bigger impact. Um, but I think part of the magic is being in person. And so we, because we are juggling multiple things, we do one week in person and one week, um, together in a conference room. So every other week we’re in person and I’ve just shared with them and I’ve asked them like, I think part of our magic is that we get together in person. And so we have that like additional bond. We can really see each other’s faces. And even with my, you know, my CEO clients, if I can meet them in person, um, which I don’t always get to do. I absolutely love to break bread together because it just makes the rest of the conversations easier and things just get done faster. I find, um, so I’d love to scale it and, and share this. So if, if I don’t scale, I would love to encourage other fractionals because I think I do have this energy. Um, I’m also a huge organizer, but the other thing I’ve been able to help a lot of them with is tech like, hey, you’re doing this, we could make this faster. Here’s some technologies you could consider. So if you do something like I do, you’re in a perfect space position and mindset and skills and ability to open like this in your hometown and, um, it’s fantastic.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that. So, uh, if you’re listening today and you happen to be interested in creating or being a part of a women’s cohort, women in Business and accountability group, I think Wendi might like some feedback on in person or do you scale it and go online? I love the idea of over a 12 week period, you meet six times in person. It’s a difference maker. Trisha’s opinion, and I love that you’re doing that. So if you guys want to reach out, you know how to find Wendi on LinkedIn or on her website. I would be remiss if we didn’t talk about business. Jim, can we talk a little bit about that? Tell me about your 90 day program.

Wendi Pannell: Yeah. So the structure is that for 90 days in the beginning, just like I do with my fractional co clients, we define one very clear goal. And usually this is where this is where they learn about my feedback style. So I’m pushing them on. Well, what does that mean? What does that look like? When can we pop champagne? So they have a very specific goal line. So and this again, um, I can creating goals to like understanding how a sommelier tastes wine. It’s taken me years to understand what a good goal is. And so the and I use the objective and key results framework because I love how it mixes the why with the how and the what. Um, so I push them to define that because they have to start with clarity. And once they do the or have the goal, we store it somewhere where I’m showing them, hey, you’re bringing this back on a weekly basis. I teach them a cadence of how they check in with themselves or how they check in with me, because I also do one coaching call with them a month. Um, so clarity and then that cadence of talking about it once a week. Uh, and then the next part is, okay, when we’re getting together in that, in that time, that 75 minutes that we’re together, we are talking about what did you get done? What roadblocks did you have? And what are you doing this coming week? What’s going to move the needle? It’s if you’re in technology and the tech space, it’s a stand up, right? It’s a 15 minute stand up that a lot of tech tech teams do. So getting them in the system and the cadence of clarity and cadence and asking themselves questions is what helps to move that goal forward.

Wendi Pannell: And honestly, it’s the exact same thing that I use for bigger tech companies is, um, write down the one thing that matters, right? For them, I also will say, ask your team, don’t assume, ask them what’s sticky, what’s not moving. So even for these smaller solopreneur entrepreneur women. What? What’s slowing you down right now? And if you have a team and you start asking your team that. Because a lot of leaders assume they think what’s slowing them down because again, it’s usually not the strategy. It’s tactically what is slowing those folks down. Then they’re going to be able to make their strategy execution move faster. And then again, the difference, the simple difference that a 30 minute check in a week. I don’t care if you’re a solopreneur. I have check ins with myself. I’ve got a spot on my calendar panel consulting check in. And during that time, I’m looking through my goals, my objectives, and my key results. And I’m being honest with myself about what moved and what didn’t, and that helps me prepare for next week. What do I need to mitigate? What do I need to really help to move me forward? And as a solopreneur, it’s great because it’s keeping me accountable because it’s really hard when you’re a solopreneur sometimes to kind of hold yourself accountable. But the great thing about this is, you know, even though I work with a lot of tech companies, those three things don’t require a consultant. They don’t require new technology or tools. It is the art of like accountability and clarity that’s really going to help any company solopreneur to, you know, $20 million in IRR to move the needle.

Trisha Stetzel: I love that you work in 90 day sprints. I don’t know if you use that word. That’s just what came forward for me. And it really feels like as a solopreneur, just an entrepreneur with a small team that I don’t have to eat the elephant all at once, it feels way less overwhelming to do everything in 90 day sprints. And you, you’re doing this in your daily work with your clients, with the women that you’re bringing in and other business. Jim. 90 day Execution cycles, uh, to get us where we need to be. And I think that’s fantastic. So I have one more as we wrap up. I have one more question for you, Wendi. Um, if a business owner leader and especially the women who are listening today, if they feel stuck or overwhelmed, what’s one small thing they can do this week to bring more clarity and execution into her business?

Wendi Pannell: Write down, which could be brainstorming. What is the one thing that matters that they need to move this week? You could even start with this week. What is the one thing that you need to get done this week and make that your priority? Move mountains, move calendars, move things that aren’t important off of your calendar and block time to review it, to do it, to make the plan to get it done. You know, there’s also psychology around a list, right? And checking things off when you feel like you’re making momentum on a regular cadence, it gives you that boost to keep going. And when you are running a small company or you’re in growth mode, those little wins count a lot for you and for your team. So my suggestion that one thing would be to write it down. But here’s the other thing that I think, um, a lot of folks could use help with is, is that the right thing? And when you are working on your own and you don’t have a co-founder or a COO or just somebody who’s like, got your vision and your passion to push you on whether that is the right thing. You know, this is where having mentors, you know, having people that have gone this path before, having a cohort of other women or reaching out, you know, to a fractional CFO. Somebody wanted to send me their goal in, um, in a DM on LinkedIn. Listen, I nerd out about this stuff, so send it to me. I’m happy to say, yeah, this isn’t going to work for you, right? Even if it’s just how it’s worded, I can quickly say you’re not going to know when you hit this. You need to be more specific. So I think that could just be the one thing they do for the week, the quarter, the month, not the year. Please, not the year. Start small. What is one thing that you absolutely have to get done to move the needle in your business?

Trisha Stetzel: Mhm. Fantastic. So two questions for the audience to think about is what’s the one thing and is it the right thing? And you guys need to reach out and check in with Wendi. She is amazing. Thank you so much for being with me today. Tell folks one more time how to find you.

Wendi Pannell: Linkedin. Very active. So Wendi with an I and panel two ends, two L’s and then my website poorly named. So I’m not in marketing but Wendi parnell.com.

Trisha Stetzel: Hey that’s fantastic. Then we can find you so easy, I love it. Thank you. Wendi, it has been my pleasure to host you. Thanks for spending the time and joining me today.

Wendi Pannell: Absolutely. Thanks, Tricia.

Trisha Stetzel: All right guys, that’s all the time we have for today. If you found value in this conversation that Wendi and I had, please share it with a fellow entrepreneur, a veteran or Houston reader leader ready to grow. Be sure to follow, rate and review the show. Of course, it helps us reach more bold business minds just like yours and your business. Your leadership and your legacy are built one intentional step at a time. So stay inspired, stay focused, and keep building the business and the life you deserve.