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Inspiring Women, Episode 1: Are Your “Nevers” Your Opportunities?

May 22, 2019 by John Ray

Inspiring Women PodCast with Betty Collins

Inspiring Women, Episode 1: Are Your "Nevers" Your Opportunities?

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Betty’s Show Notes

The “nevers” became my opportunities once I chose to consider them. Why do we say “never” first?

1) Youth and inexperience
2) Lack of confidence
3) Easy is easier
4) No guidance
5) Fear is paralyzing

My “nevers” included:
Never going to use my accounting degree.
Never going to be a CPA.
Never going to be the employer, content with being an employee.
Never going to merge.

My “never” became “Maybe, OK, Probably” and finally “Yes” due to influencers and facing my challenges.

What are your challenges?
Do you value who you are – no one will ever value you as much as YOU
Are you leveraging your uniqueness?
Are you paralyzed by fear?
When and how you do say NO – that is not a never!

“Nevers” just may be your opportunities.
Be more aware of the people in your life. Ask more questions versus acceptance. No one will value you more than you. Paralyzed by fear, you will miss your moment. Leverage your uniqueness, it is your journey.

“Inspiring Women” Podcast Series

“Inspiring Women” is THE podcast that advances women toward economic, social and political achievement. The show is hosted by Betty Collins, CPA, and presented by Brady Ware and Company. Brady Ware is committed to empowering women to go their distance in the workplace and at home. Past episodes of “Inspiring Women” can be found here.

Show Transcript

Betty Collins: [00:00:06] So here I am 30 years later and I’m a shareholder and a director of a CPA firm. We’re regional with about 20 owners. We hover in that area. Probably 150 plus employees. I’ve been elected to the board of directors in my company by my peers. And then a year ago I was appointed to be lead of one of our offices. So we have four of those people in our office. But the fun thing probably the energy that fuels me to do what I do is I get to direct a Women’s Initiative. 60 percent of our employees are women in Brady Ware.

Betty Collins: [00:00:56] And so it’s not about entitlement, it’s about empowerment. So that’s why I get a lot of energy from that. I love what I do every day. Probably what makes the “Why” for me is I’m a business owner advising business owners. I wish I would have had that a long time ago in my own life as a small business owner. So it’s really my passion because I believe that the marketplace is huge and the business community plays a role in making sure that employers have employees who are families and households. And so I get to do that every day. And then I get to give back. I support a really great organization, the WSBA, which is about women in business. Small, accelerating, moving along. And then I’m the president elect for NAWBO, which is the National Association of Women Business Owners. And the Columbus chapter is the largest in the country. So that’s 30 years later. So I go “Wow, how did I get here? Why am I here?”.

Betty Collins: [00:02:04] And here’s my story. And really it comes down to all the “Nevers.” Everything I said never to really became my opportunity. And if it would have not been open after I said “Never” I would have never been where I am right now. So what I want to do is is kind of go back 30 years ago and talk about the process of those “Nevers.”

Betty Collins: [00:02:30] You know I’m a practical thinker. My world is really small which a lot of us live in. But the greatest thing along the way was others saw in me what I didn’t see. And that’s a good thing. And it’s a bad thing. But I’ll talk about that later. But generally I would start a sentence “I would never do that.” Now any time I say never I go “I shouldn’t be saying never. What am I missing?”

Betty Collins: [00:02:56] My “Nevers” were this. I was never going to be an accountant. Even though I had a college degree to do that. I was never going to get a CPA. It was “Who cares about that? Right?” I don’t want to take a test and go through all that agony. Let alone own a CPA firm or stay in public accounting or now go to a big company merge into a company. Every one of those things I said no to. Never an accountant. Never a CPA. Never an owner. And never going to merge. And those four things were the catalyst to all my opportunities.

Betty Collins: [00:03:34] So “Never” going to use my accounting degree. I chose accounting because I had to choose a major. It was not a passion. It was a good way to get a job, right?! Fortunately, I did find that when I was 50 that accounting can be passionate and I can be passionate about what I’m doing. I definitely see that in my two kids who at 20 chose college majors because it’s what they wanted to do in life. I didn’t do that till 50. So I took the first job, of course, that’s offered to me. Now I have a job and I have that paycheck every two weeks. And it took me to an upstate New York town called Rochester. And I loved it. Except I was a Buckeye at heart and want to be back in Ohio. So I came back. And how I came back was, my neighbor of my parents owned a CPA firm and said I can give you a job tomorrow. But I go I don’t want to be an accountant. But I need a job to get back to Ohio. So my second choice was that I would come and be an accountant. But I said I’m only staying for a while. This is not what I want to do. So no passion, no dream, everything was logical. Those types of things.

Betty Collins: [00:04:40] So I came back, started working there and I actually kind of liked it. But I was “Never” going to be a CPA. He challenged me over and over to do and I didn’t want to do it. And then he moved on and another owner came into play. And he said, “You act like an owner, why wouldn’t you be one?” I said, “Well, I don’t want to be a CPA.” I didn’t really want to be an accountant. I’m “never” going to be a CPA because I “never” want to own the company. And so he made me a great offer and said, “You act like an owner. I’ll make you one immediately if you just get your CPA.” How do you turn that down? Because most people had to have clients and build rapport. I didn’t have to do that. So I said okay fine, I’m going to be an accountant for a little bit longer and I’ll go get my CPA and maybe become an owner. And so in 2009, I became that owner. And for 10 years we built an amazing business. I was content. It was a good thing.

Betty Collins: [00:05:38] Well then people started calling saying “Hey, would you like to merge?” Of course I “never” going to merge. I’ve got a nice little gig. I know my next 10 years. I live in a small world. Remember I’m a logical person. And so I said this is what I’m going to do. I don’t want to merge. So my partner at that time said I think you need to meet Brian Carr of Brady Ware. I said bring him on. I will be glad to meet him. I’ll see what he’s like. And we immediately had this synergy.

Betty Collins: [00:06:08] And so I said I guess I could merge. I mean, if I can be a CPA and I can own a business, I guess I can merge. And so that’s what I did. So it was those “Nevers” that was like “Wow.” But I didn’t want the pressure of making payroll. I just wanted to be paid. I didn’t want to take risks. That isn’t comfortable for me. And I wanted to work for clients not find clients. That’s two very different things. So all of this went against my little small world. All of this went against the things I didn’t think I wanted to do. But yet I started this podcast with “This is what I’m doing today.” So I’m certainly glad that I now can look back and think if I would have said never and stuck with that I would not have this opportunity that I have right now.

[00:06:58] So you have to go. What are the things I’m saying “Never” to? And I don’t care what age you are. Because the “Maybe,” the “OK,” the “Probably,” and finally the “Yes,” may really just turn into something that’s amazing.

Betty Collins: [00:07:14] So how did that happen for me? Because I look at this as I just evolved into this and now hindsight shows me this along the way. So I want to make sure people know you don’t have to go and evolve and hope it all works out. So influencers are the biggest thing about your “Nevers.” Because there are times you need to say no. There are times it’s just absolutely no.

Betty Collins: [00:07:41] But I have great influencers. So Jane Davis was probably really my first mentor. And she, in the 70s, went through things, like divorce, when it wasn’t popular. And she married a guy named Randy Nipps. He was the first accounting firm that I worked for that merged into Nipps Brown Collins, eventually Brady Ware. But Jane was a big huge influencer. And when you look at the influencers right now in your life. what are they influencing you in?

Betty Collins: [00:08:12] So my first boss was Austin Swallow, who showed me that integrity and faith could be drivers and you could still be a business person and make money. So it’s all OK.

Betty Collins: [00:08:24] The second one was Randy Nipps who showed me the value of your employees. You don’t have that, you can’t continue to grow, you can’t grow at all. They’re your biggest asset.

Betty Collins: [00:08:36] Gary Brown showed me loyalty and focus. Those are the things that drive you to next levels. And he had a passion for his client which are people with disabilities. That was always the underline of everything he did.

Betty Collins: [00:08:49] And then Brian Carr, who is now the CEO I work for. He’s a person of vision. He’s always thinking about something bigger and that there’s always more. And I worked for each one of these men. And I was always the “Never.” And they were going you need to say yes. So I was lucky that I had that. They saw in me what I didn’t see. And while that’s all sounds great, what if I would have seen it? Then I could have had maybe a little more control of my destiny. Not that I needed to but you have to look back and ask that, right? So if I would just say yes on my own instead of yes to maybe what somebody else was saying I should be, I might have gone further and farther. I don’t know. So I look at that and say great, I had these influencers and these were the different things. However, I needed to see in me that I could do this. They saw it. But there were challenges with like anything in any career. And now I want to make sure that people don’t go through the challenges, the things that I went through.

Betty Collins: [00:09:55] You have to value who you are. It can’t be somebody else valuing you. You have to do it. You have to leverage your uniqueness. I’m surrounded by experts. I’m surrounded by technicians. I’m surrounded by people with really big careers. Yet I have things that they don’t. Which is I’m very personable and very passionate. I make sure I find the right technician because they’re everywhere. And I have a relationship with a client because I’m a business owner helping business owners. And I can see that the business marketing community has to have us in order to have those households that form communities. So I have a uniqueness of looking at things differently.

Betty Collins: [00:10:44] Paralyzed by fear will get you nowhere, even if you say yes to your opportunity. When I first came to Brady Ware, the first day I was downtown in my big office I could see The Scioto Mile on one side and the Capitol on the other. And I had the same computer, the same mouse, the same software, the same employees. And I sat there having no idea what to do. I was paralyzed by fear because I’m surrounded by experts and big career and now I’m in a big company. So I said yes but yet I’m paralyzed for the opportunity. So I left that day knowing what to do, which was go to lunch. And I went to lunch and I came back, because I talked to my husband he said, “This is your moment don’t miss it. Are you kidding? This is your moment.” So I didn’t. I did not let fear paralyze me once I said the “Yes.” And so again the opportunity came out. But there are times you have to understand there’s a “Yes” which promotes the opportunity but there’s “No” which means you didn’t go down the wrong path. And sometimes you just need someone to help you understand which ones those are.

Betty Collins: [00:11:51] So hopefully what your takeaway is today from the things of my story to you, because we all have a story, is “Nevers” just may be your opportunity. So take a mental note of when did I say never today. Or just even how many times you’ll say “Never” and “No” in a day. You’ll be surprised.

Betty Collins: [00:12:13] You have to be more aware of the people in your life, the influencers you are with right now. How are they influencing you? Are they the things you really believe? Are they the things that want to drive you? I mean I had great people of integrity and loyalty and vision and big picture. You have to ask more questions before you accept something. And women don’t do that. They just accept the circumstance. Men always ask questions.

Betty Collins: [00:12:39] No one will ever value you more than you. Don’t let somebody dictate your worth. And don’t let somebody take advantage of what you’re worth. Because they will.

Betty Collins: [00:12:51] Don’t be paralyzed by that fear, because you’ll miss your moment. And others saw my value and directed my path. My next 10 years I’m directing my path and I’m never going to say never. Ha. It’s a mindset. I only want opportunity if I choose to take it.

Frazier & Deeter’s Business Beat: Scott Ballard, Northside Anesthesiology Consultants

May 22, 2019 by John Ray

Business Beat

Frazier & Deeter's Business Beat: Scott Ballard, Northside Anesthesiology Consultants

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**Dr. Scott Ballard, Northside Anesthesiology Consultants, Jen Portilla, Frazier & Deeter, and Roger Lusby, Frazier & Deeter, on “Business Beat” presented by Alpharetta CPA firm Frazier & Deeter**

Show Summary

Dr. Scott Ballard of Northside Anesthesiology Consultants joins Frazier & Deeter’s “Business Beat” to talk about managing the growth of his practice, the business challenges in medicine today, and recruiting physicians for a growing practice. This inspiring story of business success is brought to you by Alpharetta CPA firm Frazier & Deeter.

Dr. Scott Ballard, Northside Anesthesiology Consultants

Dr. Scott Ballard is the Chairman and a practicing anesthesiologist at Northside Anesthesiology Consultants. Northside Anesthesiology Consultants (NAC) is one of the largest anesthesiology groups in the country. By the end of the summer we will have 75 anesthesiologists and nearly 170 anesthetists. NAC covers all three of the Northside hospitals as well as about 18 surgery centers. NAC partnered with a large corporate partner in late 2015, now known as Envision. Envision is the largest employer of physicians in the country. NAC is the sole aneasthesiology provider in the Northside system.

Frazier & Deeter

The Alpharetta office of Frazier & Deeter is home to a thriving CPA tax practice and Employee Benefit Plan Services group. CPAs and advisors in the Frazier & Deeter Alpharetta office serve clients across North Georgia and around the country with services such as personal tax planning, estate planning, business tax planning, business tax compliance, state and local tax planning, financial statement reviews, financial statement audits, employee benefit plan audits, internal audit outsourcing, cyber security, data privacy, Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX) and other regulatory compliance, mergers and acquisitions, and more. Alpharetta CPA professionals serve clients ranging from business owners and executives to large corporations.

Roger Lusby, host of Frazier & Deeter’s “Business Beat,” is the Alpharetta Office Managing Partner for Frazier & Deeter. He is also a member of the Tax Department in charge of coordinating tax and accounting services for our clientele. His responsibilities include a review of a variety of tax returns with an emphasis in the individual, estate, and corporate areas. Client assistance is also provided in the areas of financial planning, executive compensation and stock option planning, estate and succession planning, international planning (FBAR, SFOP), health care, real estate, manufacturing, technology and service companies.

Find Frazier & Deeter on social media:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/frazier-&-deeter-llc/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FrazierDeeter
Twitter: https://twitter.com/frazierdeeter

Past episodes of Frazier & Deeter’s “Business Beat” can be found here.

North Fulton Business RadioX ® Studio

May 19, 2019 by John Ray

Our Most Recent Episode

North Fulton Business Radio

May 19, 2019 by John Ray

As the recognized “Voice of Business” in North Fulton, host John Ray features the area’s top business leaders, who offer their insights and success stories.

Broadcasting Live from the North Fulton Business RadioX ® studio located inside Renasant Bank.

Decision Vision Episode 15: Data Security – An Interview with Charles Hoff, Data Security University

May 16, 2019 by John Ray

Decision Vision

Decision Vision Episode 15: Data Security – An Interview with Charles Hoff, Data Security University

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Data Security

How big is the problem of hacking worldwide? How do I protect my business? If I experience a data breach, what should I do? In this edition of “Decision Vision,” Charles Hoff, CEO of Data Security University, answers these questions and more in an important conversation with “Decision Vision” host Michael Blake.

Charles Hoff, Data Security University

**Charles Hoff, CEO of Data Security University**

Charles Hoff is the CEO and Co-Founder of Data Security University. Data Security University (DSU) provides its clients with its innovative Security to the 6^th Power platform. The platform enables organizations, along with their SMB customers, franchisees, and government agencies, and vendors, to seamlessly receive and manage 1) Data Security and Privacy Regulation education/training; 2) Financial Calculation of specific data security exposure; 3) Security Risk Assessments; 4) Vulnerability Scoring; 5) Immediate Customized Action Planning to significantly mitigate exposure, and 6) Connection to the most reputable Managed Service and Data Security Technology providers.

Charles is very proud of the fact that Data Security University has helped business operators throughout varied industries understand and take action to better safeguard their organizations from devastating data security breaches.

Although Charles has traveled the world extensively, he took advantage of the excellent schools close to his hometown of Atlanta, having received his BA from Emory University, JD from UGA Law School and EMBA from Kennesaw State University. Charles and his wonderful wife Eileen are proud to call both Atlanta and Charleston, SC their homes. Charles and Eileen’s greatest joy emanates from their family consisting of their adult children and son-in-law – Alex, Mallory, and Ben.

Michael Blake, Brady Ware & Company

**Mike Blake, Host of “Decision Vision”**

Michael Blake is Host of the “Decision Vision” podcast series and a Director of Brady Ware & Company. Mike specializes in the valuation of intellectual property-driven firms, such as software firms, aerospace firms and professional services firms, most frequently in the capacity as a transaction advisor, helping clients obtain great outcomes from complex transaction opportunities. He is also a specialist in the appraisal of intellectual properties as stand-alone assets, such as software, trade secrets, and patents.

Mike has been a full-time business appraiser for 13 years with public accounting firms, boutique business appraisal firms, and an owner of his own firm. Prior to that, he spent 8 years in venture capital and investment banking, including transactions in the U.S., Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.

Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company is a regional full-service accounting and advisory firm which helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality. Brady Ware services clients nationally from its offices in Alpharetta, GA; Columbus and Dayton, OH; and Richmond, IN. The firm is growth minded, committed to the regions in which they operate, and most importantly, they make significant investments in their people and service offerings to meet the changing financial needs of those they are privileged to serve. The firm is dedicated to providing results that make a difference for its clients.

Decision Vision Podcast Series

“Decision Vision” is a podcast covering topics and issues facing small business owners and connecting them with solutions from leading experts. This series is presented by Brady Ware & Company. If you are a decision maker for a small business, we’d love to hear from you. Contact us at decisionvision@bradyware.com and make sure to listen to every Thursday to the “Decision Vision” podcast. Past episodes of “Decision Vision” can be found here. “Decision Vision” is produced and broadcast by Business RadioX®.

Visit Brady Ware & Company on social media:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brady-ware/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bradywareCPAs/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BradyWare

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bradywarecompany/

Show Transcript

Intro: [00:00:01] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions, brought to you by Brady Ware n& Company. Brady Ware is a regional, full-service accounting and advisory firm that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make vision a reality.

Michael Blake: [00:00:20] And welcome back to another episode of Decision Vision, a podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we’re discussing the process of decision making on a different topic. But rather than making recommendations because everyone’s circumstances are different, we talk to subject matter experts about how they would recommend thinking about that decision.

Michael Blake: [00:00:37] My name is Mike Blake, and I am your host for today’s program. I’m a Director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia, which is where we’re recording today. Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast. If you like this podcast, please subscribe on your favorite podcast aggregator, and please also consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Michael Blake: [00:01:03] Today, we’re going to talk about data security. And helping us out today as Charles Hoff, CEO of Data Security University. DSU was established just over four years ago with the mission of demystifying the regulatory and contractual obligations of small and medium-sized businesses to comply with data security standards including NAST, PCI, DSS, and GDPR. And I’m sure we’ll find out what those things actually mean in the interview.

Michael Blake: [00:01:30] DSU’s commitment to communicating in plain English while delivering engaging patent-pending products resonated with business operators who had very little time to learn how to keep their customers’ business, personal, and credit card data secure. Data Security University’s unique products deliver interactive education while assessing an organization’s security vulnerabilities and providing a tailored action plan for data protection.

Michael Blake: [00:01:54] Data Security University’s customers recognize the shorthand for this approach to educate, calculate, assess, score, action plan, connect to experts. In addition, they’re able to leverage Data Security University’s cybersecurity, PCI, and GDPR assessment tools to benefit from its backend big data analytics, while marketing their own related security products and services.

Michael Blake: [00:02:19] Although Charles has traveled the world extensively, he took advantage of the excellent schools close to his hometown of Atlanta, having received his bachelor’s degree from Emory University, his law degree from the University of Georgia Law School, and his executive MBA from Kennesaw State University. Charles and his wife, Eileen, are proud to call both Atlanta and Charleston, South Carolina their homes. Charles and Eileen’s greatest joy emanates from their family consisting of their adult children and son-in-law Alex, Mallory, and Ben. And on a personal note, first of all, Charleston has an awesome town. I love it every time that I go there.

Charles Hoff: [00:02:52] Ain’t it great?

Michael Blake: [00:02:52] When I grow up, I got to retire there.

Charles Hoff: [00:02:54] It’s a special place.

Michael Blake: [00:02:56] And Charles and I have known each other for a long time. It’s got to be at least 10 years.

Charles Hoff: [00:02:59] Yes.

Michael Blake: [00:03:00] I don’t think that I’ve met an attorney who smiles and laughs as much as you do. And in a nice way, not a sort of rubbing-your-hands-greedily certain way.

Charles Hoff: [00:03:08] I appreciate that.

Michael Blake: [00:03:09] But in a very good natured way. I find that it’s just a joy to talk to you. So, thanks for coming on.

Charles Hoff: [00:03:18] Thank you, Mike.

Michael Blake: [00:03:18] I really appreciate that.

Charles Hoff: [00:03:18] It’s always great to see you.

Michael Blake: [00:03:20] So, you’re a recovering attorney. When we last did business together, we’re involved in a litigation case involving a restaurant chain.

Charles Hoff: [00:03:28] Right, right.

Michael Blake: [00:03:29] I don’t do litigation anymore. I don’t think you do. Do you do law anymore? Do you practice law?

Charles Hoff: [00:03:33] Not anymore. No. I just leverage my legal background.

Michael Blake: [00:03:35] So, you’re completely out of the practice of law entirely?

Charles Hoff: [00:03:37] Yes, yes.

Michael Blake: [00:03:38] So, what led you to chuck all that and get into data security education?

Charles Hoff: [00:03:45] Great question. The funny thing is, Mike, that the common thread in my entire career has been data security and fraud. My 20 years at Equifax, a lot of friends kid me that I was doing ID theft and fraud before it was cool, but that was the beginning. And then, when I became General Counsel for the Georgia Restaurant Association and saw all these restaurants experiencing these tragic security breaches, and many of them going out of business, unfortunately.

Charles Hoff: [00:04:15] And the National Restaurant Association knew my background, and they said “Gee, we have 300,000 plus members that are suffering these terrible breaches. They don’t know how to comply fully with payment card industry, data security standards. Can you help them? Can you consult? Can you train? Can you help?” And I said, “I would be happy to do so.”

Charles Hoff: [00:04:37] It was very old school at the time. I went around the country making speeches, doing the whitepapers, even webinars. But one thing I found with very technical material like this, people’s eyes glaze over. And they have only so much. I mean, these are very successful. And at the time it was restaurant tours We, of course, branched out considerably. But they have very important jobs to do, and they only have so much time where they could focus on something other than their operations.

Charles Hoff: [00:05:06] So, the genesis of the company was I had a very good friend, I still do, who was one the top guys in Web MD, one of the first guys in. And he said, “Gee, make it engaging. Make it as entertaining as possible and get them through it as quickly.”

Charles Hoff: [00:05:22] And so, that’s really what started. And that’s how we got into it. And after I started doing it, I realized, “Gee, I so much better enjoy this than I did handling class action suits,” which even though is against the bad guys when you had breaches, still, I loved this process. We’re in a very quick and an easy fashion. We do demystify and help in terms of remedying it.

Michael Blake: [00:05:47] That entertaining part, I’m going to go off script for a minute because I haven’t really heard this elevator pitch for that. Entertaining part is important, right, because you want to get your kids to eat their vegetables, but there’s nothing wrong with putting over the sauce on them.

Charles Hoff: [00:06:01] Right, exactly.

Michael Blake: [00:06:02] If that’s what it takes to eat the vegetables, right? If you’re going to have people go through that education, why not not make it a waterboarding session to get through, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:06:12] So true.

Michael Blake: [00:06:12] There’s no reason you can’t do that if you take the time and make the effort. It doesn’t have to be a yuck-yucksession. But it doesn’t sort of have to be Ben Stein and Ferris Bueller’s day off either, just, sort of, droning on in front of the audience, right?

Michael Blake: [00:06:25] Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I mean, it’s got to be user friendly. It’s got to be non-technical. And we take a lot of pride in our videos because even though, in some fashion, they may appear to be lighthearted, they really get to the very core, and they’re short, and people get through it, and they said, “Gee, that was a painless way of learning something that that was so incredible in terms of it normally being very dense but breaking it out in that fashion.”

Michael Blake: [00:06:50] So, how long is your typical video?

Charles Hoff: [00:06:52] You don’t want to make it more than three minutes if you can, if you can avoid it.

Michael Blake: [00:06:56] Three minutes, really?

Charles Hoff: [00:06:56] Typically. Sometimes, we go a little bit over but not much.

Michael Blake: [00:07:00] You can teach what you need in three minutes?

Charles Hoff: [00:07:01] You can give a nice primer. You could lay the foundation. And that’s what we try to achieve with the videos.

Michael Blake: [00:07:08] And so, in the way that you’re — I know I’m going off script, but this is fine. So, in the way that you model, do people pay by the video? Do they buy a subscription? How does that whole arrangement work?

Charles Hoff: [00:07:18] Yeah. You got a great question there. In terms of our business model, we really provide to sum for the many. We have a model, which we provide a license for our application. I’ll go into it in a moment, if you like, security of 6th power. But we have companies like Paychex, there’s some great Atlanta companies that we’re very proud to call our own as customers, INSUREtrust, and we have a number of them that you would know, Bluefin. And what they do is they license and white label or gray label our platform.

Charles Hoff: [00:08:03] And so, by virtue of doing that, their customers, their vendors, their franchisees – for instance, like Jimmy John’s Franchisee Association is a customer – they’re able to have access throughout the year, anytime they want, as many times as they need to the education, the training, and the risk assessment.

Michael Blake: [00:08:26] So, you said something in the intro here where you are in data security before data security was cool. Why is it suddenly cool now?

Charles Hoff: [00:08:36] Well, in terms of cool, this become something that has become a great occupation. And it’s funny, when I first got into this, there were very few law firms that even touched it. And, now, just about every reputable law firm has their own cybersecurity team.

Charles Hoff: [00:08:57] And it is so essential. I mean, it’s the greatest existential threat that small businesses have. And of course, even the large ones, for that matter, but it’ll take a small and medium-sized business into bankruptcy before you know it. And we can get into that, of course.

Charles Hoff: [00:09:17] And the frightening thing is that by 2021 they’re expected to have $6 trillion, that’s what the T, $6 trillion of losses attributed to cybersecurity breaches.

Michael Blake: [00:09:29] That’s a big number.

Charles Hoff: [00:09:31] It is. It was $3 trillion in 2015. This year, you’re looking at about $11.4 billion as a result of ransomware, which we can discuss as well. So, with those kind of numbers with, very frankly, national security, we’re into a cyberwar, at this point. It’s so critical to everything that in the way we live our democracy, our economy. And so, it’s a huge, huge issue.

Michael Blake: [00:10:03] So, I grew up with computers, I’m Generation X. And data security in the very early sort of the 8-bit Atari, Commodore, Apple era, it was really about pirating games, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:10:16] Exactly.

Michael Blake: [00:10:17] I’m getting a copy of Zaxxon or whatever.

Charles Hoff: [00:10:19] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:10:21] But now, it’s had to evolve. Then, we want to semi online data services like CompuServe, and Prodigy, and those guys. But even then, I don’t think data security is necessarily a big deal. It’s got to be that just everything now is just so connected, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:10:38] Yeah.

Michael Blake: [00:10:38] And it’s just dizzying. Probably, the average person, including myself, probably doesn’t understand just how exposed we all are.

Charles Hoff: [00:10:46] And that’s what’s so frightening really. And that’s what we try to do in just a short period of time. Again, going back to making it user-friendly, non-technical, and giving people a foundation as quickly as possible because there’s so much to it, and it is so dense, and complex that it’s so easy for people to just — I mean, you’re a technical guy, you know this stuff, but so many people just say, “Hey, look, I don’t have time for this. I’m getting confused,” and just throw their hands up. And you want to avoid that at all cost.

Michael Blake: [00:11:18] I mean, for me, the data security evolved for me as far as antivirus software, and antiadware, and things being loaded onto your browser. But it’s even beyond that now, right? I mean, that’s all well and good, but just knowing you have up-to-date virus software doesn’t mean your data is secure, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:11:41] That’s a start.

Michael Blake: [00:11:41] It’s a start.

Charles Hoff: [00:11:42] It’s a start, Mike, yeah. Then, you add to it penetration testing, vulnerability testing, VPN routers, the firewall, the point-to-point encryption, the tokenization, the EMV, which is the chip and pin, multi-factor authentication. The list goes on and on. But the good news is, the very good news is approximately 90% of all breaches can be avoided by just simple safeguards. It’s a matter of taking people, process, and technology. And in an integrated fashion, making it work. It doesn’t have to be as complicated as it initially sounds.

Michael Blake: [00:12:25] Yeah, that’s a great point. I’ve studied this a little bit and indirectly experienced it. I’ve done some studies on the value impact on companies of data breaches and what happens to them. And that’s beyond the scope of this conversation. But I clearly remember one of the incidents that was cited. I think it was a VA Hospital in Minnesota. And they had 4000 medical records exposed because some guy wandered off the street, asked the nurse if he could borrow a laptop, and she gave it to him, and just walked out with the laptop.

Charles Hoff: [00:12:59] Yes.

Michael Blake: [00:13:00] Right. That’s not a technical thing. If somebody asks a laptop, say no.

Charles Hoff: [00:13:04] Well, that’s exactly right. And what people forget so many times, and it get lost in technology, that approximately 90% of breaches are employee-related. I mean, they’re bringing in tablets, they got the mobile devices. they got the laptops. And, of course, so many are victims to phishing and spear phishing. And it just is an awful situation. As a matter of fact, the stats — and I’ll apologize for getting too much into stats.

Michael Blake: [00:13:36] No, I love it.

Charles Hoff: [00:13:37] They are very profound. They’re very sobering. If you look at a small business, the average amount of malicious emails and over 90% of ransomware come in through these malicious e-mails. You’re looking at nine phishing emails a month on average. So, if you’re a small company with 10 employees, that’s 90 times where it’s just with emails. Through guys, like a trusted source, trying to fool you.

Charles Hoff: [00:14:13] And look, it’s great if it doesn’t get through the firewall, or you got an email filter that’s working. But what it comes down to is employees have to be well-trained and understand that even though it looks like it’s coming from my CEO, and I need to pay attention not to click. And so, training is so very, very essential.

Michael Blake: [00:14:36] And point of fact, a dear friend of mine was a CFO of a nonprofit, and she lost her job because she fell victim to a spear phishing attack. Wind up invert. She thought that her boss had asked for tax returns of certain donors. She sent them. All of a sudden, that data is exposed, and she had to take the blame for it, and she was out. That was it.

Charles Hoff: [00:15:03] There’s too many war stories like that. Here in Atlanta, in the Atlanta area, there is a company where you had a CEO, a small company, but the CEO, I believe, he had to attend a funeral. The COO was going to a conference, an event. And, of course, everybody posts with social media now. So, it’s not difficult for the bad guys to really determine who your children or the names of your children, your wife, spouse, husband. And you had a situation where they, actually, did some spear phishing for the controller who was left in the office. It looked like it was coming from the CEO, the e-mail, saying that. “Look, I’m away at a funeral.” I’ll make up a name. “Fred is off to the conference. We’re doing a quick, quick acquisition, a small one. First, confirm that you got this e-mail, and that you’re aware that it’s coming from me. And just give me confirmation of that fact.”

Charles Hoff: [00:16:01] And she shouted right back. “Yes, Mr. Jones. And condolences in terms of the funeral.” And he said, “Well, thank you. Let’s go ahead, and I’m going to have a lawyer contact you. And so, we can get the wiring instructions because we need to make this happen immediately while I’m out of town.” And sure enough, she wired the money, $1.7 million.

Michael Blake: [00:16:24] And just spear phishing, for those of you who are listening or may not know, spear phishing is like a phishing attack, but is more targeted and sophisticated, and that the perpetrators are able to mimic somebody, usually, inside the organization that you would expect to receive an email from.

Charles Hoff: [00:16:43] That’s right.

Michael Blake: [00:16:43] So, it doesn’t look like a Nigerian gold scam or anything like that, but it looks like somebody that you trust. And in the case of my friend’s organization, I’m bias, but, to me, the organization was at fault because they’d never provided any training. She’d never heard of spear phishing before then. Nobody in the organization was. She just got unlucky, and the perpetrators got lucky. They picked on the right organization at the right time. Yes, she has some blame, but it was really that it occurred because there was a systemic failure.

Charles Hoff: [00:17:15] Unquestionably. And that’s why phishing, testing, simulation, it’s critical because it’s gone so sophisticated. And so, it’s very, very important to not only train but test constantly. And we want to do our partner, we provide that, and we even do a gamification to keep them incented.

Michael Blake: [00:17:35] And like so many things, the attacker only has to be successful once.

Charles Hoff: [00:17:45] That’s right.

Michael Blake: [00:17:45] And they may be attacking literally millions of times if they’re using bots of some kind, right? A small percentage gets through, but you talked about that nine-person firm, and the 90 things that get through, if you even have a 1% failure rate, that’s a disaster. If you have a a one-thousandth of 1% failure rate, it’s probably still a disaster.

Charles Hoff: [00:18:08] Absolutely. And, again, some more stories. Orthopedic Group, I understand they’re worth. I’ve heard figures like 150 million. They were victims. And they ended up selling their hospital for zero for $1 because their value had been taken all the way down because of all the personal records, the health records that were exposed or breached. I mean, look at the city of Atlanta. I mean, you had ransomware. It wasn’t that long ago. You know what that demand was for, by the way?

Michael Blake: [00:18:39] I don’t recall.

Charles Hoff: [00:18:39] It was $51,000. And the City of Atlanta refused it, which a lot of companies and entities do. And you can go both ways on whether they should or not. The FBI still recommends that you don’t, but a lot do. The end result, $17 million in recovery fees, another $5 million to build out the infrastructure that was damaged.

Michael Blake: [00:19:02] So, I’m a small business owner, I’m listening to this. I’m either reaching for scotch, or breathing into a brown paper bag, or maybe I’m doing both, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:19:13] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:19:14] As a small business owner, I mean, I don’t have the resources that a Home Depot. Even they even had a major breach. Target did. Almost everyone we can name probably has had one, or they’re going to the next five years.

Charles Hoff: [00:19:26] True

Michael Blake: [00:19:27] I’m a small business. What do I need to do? How can I, in some economical way, protect myself from just this onslaught of people that are trying to rip off my data and sink my company?

Charles Hoff: [00:19:43] Right. Well, the first listed really is to understand that even though you’re a small business, and you don’t think that maybe anybody’s targeting you, well, the fact of the matter is that the last statistics I’ve seen are 61% have actually been the target of the hackers.

Michael Blake: [00:20:02] It makes sense, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:20:03] Yeah.

Michael Blake: [00:20:03] You’re less likely to have protection.

Charles Hoff: [00:20:04] Well, that’s it. It’s because of exactly what you say, that they don’t have the resources. They are really lean. But so often, they don’t think that they’re exposed. And what really happens is that they call it, the hackers call it spray and pray, where they just really — it’s a shotgun type effect in terms of what they do with phishing and ransomware and see what sticks. And it just that’s where the opening and vulnerability just happens be with those small and medium-sized businesses. And unfortunately, they be they become a target.

Charles Hoff: [00:20:44] So, the first thing is to realize that there’s a good likelihood that you’re going to be breached. And then, do something about it. Be proactive. I’ve had too many clients, unfortunately, come to me after the fact where they become very knowledgeable that they’ve been breached and what they should have done. But this is the time to do it.

Charles Hoff: [00:21:04] And you start out with, first of all, doing an inventory of your sensitive data- healthcare data, personal data, a customer credit card data, where everything is kept and the systems what you have. And then, really, you have trusted certified professionals. And it’s part of what we do to connect with the most trusted in the field, the most reputable, because you can have a problem if you don’t go to the right people.

Charles Hoff: [00:21:33] But have them perform an audit. But you’ll be a partner with them, and understand what they’re doing, and then put together — again, going back to that people, process, and technology, and having an integrated layered approach, making sure that you have an incent recovery plan because you can’t make it up as you go. It’s like a crisis management. You’re in that crisis, you’ve got to move, you’ve got to have the playbook. And you need to have a recovery plan we’re getting back that data. And those are things that are so very critical in the equation.

Michael Blake: [00:22:12] So, let’s put ourselves in the seat of people that you were once very closely involved with a restaurant. Restaurants get $2 million of revenue. If they’re doing great, they’re clearing $100,000, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:22:29] Yeah. Yes.

Michael Blake: [00:22:30] Can those businesses afford to be secure realistically?

Charles Hoff: [00:22:33] Yes. Realistically, yes.

Michael Blake: [00:22:37] Okay.

Charles Hoff: [00:22:37] And that’s a great takeaway here, Mike. And that’s a good news because it doesn’t have to be that expensive.

Michael Blake: [00:22:45] Because I think about all these nerds coming in and doing simulations, and audits, and stuff, I mean, that sounds expensive.

Charles Hoff: [00:22:52] Look, it is with large enterprises, and when you talk about the assessments and analysis. And that’s why we focus. I’d like my legacy to be that I helped these small and medium-sized businesses avoid breaches because it’s an incredible loss when they get hit. And they don’t realize that there’s different ways it could happen. But if they’re using credit cards, they have an agreement with their merchant acquirers. And a lot of small and medium-sized business think, “I’m covered because I’ve got a great card processor, I got a great POS company behind me,” and they don’t realize that in the fine print of the merchant acquirer agreement, it stipulates that they have to be compliant with payment card industry data security standards.

Charles Hoff: [00:23:45] And you look at 12 pretty straightforward requirements, but there’s over 300 subcomponents. And if they fail, and they find out very quickly when they fail because when there’s a breach, the first thing they find out is there’s got to be a forensic audit, and there’s a select number of auditors that the merchant acquirer will allow to come in. It’s a very intrusive process. And that can add up to 6,000, 7,000, 8,000, 9,000, 10,000 a pop for each location. And then they find out, too, that the merchant acquirer contractually can freeze their accounts receivable, six figures.

Charles Hoff: [00:24:22] And I don’t know that many small to medium-sized restaurants and franchisees that can survive for any length of time having $100,000 or so. And then, there’s penalties and fees that the merchant acquirer can assess, charge backs, charges for re-issuance of cards, remediation, litigation comes into play, oftentimes. So, it’s no wonder that so many of these small and medium-sized businesses go out.

Michael Blake: [00:24:51] So, the short answer is, I mean, this is just a new cost of doing business, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:24:55] It is. It’s the reality. And even, sometimes, I hear with larger enterprises, we serve a good many larger enterprises that, of course, have a lot of smaller customers, and franchisee, chains, locations. And, sometimes, you’ll have where, “Gee, we’re going to get to this. We know it’s important.” But we have a couple of really high-charging executives that there’s revenue projects that the IT Department needs to work on first. And very frankly, we even had them, I’m not going to name the company, but we heard that, and they were breached before we could do anything for them, which is really unfortunate.

Michael Blake: [00:25:40] So, actually, that brings up another questions. So, let’s say somebody is listening to this too late, or they’re acting on it too late. I’m a small company, or any company. I guess that part doesn’t matter. And I discover that I’ve likely been breached. What do I do?

Charles Hoff: [00:25:57] Well, it depends on what kind of breach. But the first thing that they should do really is get in touch with an attorney who is proficient and expert in this field. A lot of lawyers aren’t. You want to call your merchant acquirer if it’s a card information, your POS provider, but law enforcement comes into play in a hurry. And you want to make sure, oftentimes, it’s Secret Service. Now, the FBI is taking even more responsibility.

Michael Blake: [00:26:27] The Secret Service, really?

Charles Hoff: [00:26:28] The Secret Service. Well, a lot of this really comes down to Homeland Security.

Michael Blake: [00:26:32] I guess so, yeah.

Charles Hoff: [00:26:33] And we’ll talk about it in a little while if you like, but they’re always looking to see if nation states are involved as well. So, in terms of law enforcement, normally, it’s not the locals, it’s the Secret Service and the FBI. They get involved. It’s that serious. And, of course, they have the expertise, and the capabilities, and resources to really do what needs to be done from a forensic standpoint.

Michael Blake: [00:26:58] Now, a lot of companies are putting their data into the cloud now. Small companies, I did when I had my own firm, I had everything on one drive.

Charles Hoff: [00:27:04] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:27:06] Should that give me any comfort that my data is any more secure that if we’re just sort of sitting around on a client computer or if I’m hosting my own server?

Charles Hoff: [00:27:15] Well, the answer is a qualified yes. I mean it’s — But I was with somebody the other day who said, “Well, I checked off that box. We should be good. We’re in the cloud.” Well, think about that. I mean, really, you need to make sure that, one, it’s a very reputable company. And you need to ask a lot of questions and take a look at that agreement because the way they look at it is it’s a shared risk. And, again, a lot of things, sure, you don’t have to worry about servers anymore and backups, but the same time, all those other things, the employee issues are still there. So, you have that.

Charles Hoff: [00:27:53] And these cloud servers are the targets of a lot of attacks because, naturally, there’s so many company information, so many companies involved with that that they’re a bigger target. And so, they get attacked. And I even heard of a situation to where there was an issue as to when a company, there was a dispute as far as payment paying to the cloud service provider, and the cloud service provider took their data. They said, “That’s ours. If you look at the contract that, it belongs to us now.”.

Charles Hoff: [00:28:26] So, it is risk sharing. It is something where I do advocate a cloud solution, but really do your homework, and make sure it’s the right one, and don’t kid yourself in terms of believing that once you do that, that your worries are over.

Michael Blake: [00:28:43] Right. Because somebody could still give away that laptop, but if it has access to your One Drive account-

Charles Hoff: [00:28:47] Precisely.

Michael Blake: [00:28:48] … it doesn’t matter, you still have that vulnerability.

Charles Hoff: [00:28:50] That’s exactly right, Mike.

Michael Blake: [00:28:51] So, what about insurance, is this a risk that you can purchase insurance against?

Charles Hoff: [00:28:59] Well, the answer is yes. And there’s some very good cybersecurity policies out there. And as you can imagine, more and more carriers have gone into this. Years ago, that wasn’t the case. Now, again, a caveat that you have to take a look very carefully at the wording of those insurance policies. I mean, they may not cover penalties. It may not cover forensic audits, attorneys’ fees. I mean, there’s so many different things that could be excluded, and you’re on your own, and you’re really having a problem.

Charles Hoff: [00:29:32] So, as a matter of fact, one of our clients’ customers, INSUREtrust, they are a pioneer in cybersecurity and security of 6th power, working with them to make sure that through their brokers, folks can really pay attention to that.

Michael Blake: [00:29:47] Are there certain kinds of businesses that tend to be more attractive targets or tend to be more vulnerable than others?

Charles Hoff: [00:29:54] Well, the answer is yes. First of all, we talked about the ones who are most vulnerable are the ones that aren’t paying attention and are doing what they need to in the way of safeguards. But as far as the vulnerable companies are concerned, I mean, look at — and it’s a little scary when you look at our power grid, utility companies, energy. I mean, now, they’re getting to the point where they’re really paying attention, and there’s new regulations. of course, governments, with this executive order last year that government agencies have to do assessments now. So, that’s the good news. But if you look at the sensitivity with government information, in South Carolina, there was a big breach a few years ago.

Michael Blake: [00:30:37] I remember that.

Charles Hoff: [00:30:38] Yeah. I think it was $3.8 million. I mean, excuse me, 3.8 million personal records.

Michael Blake: [00:30:42] Data records.

Charles Hoff: [00:30:44] … data records that were affected and compromised. And just think how powerful that information is. And a lot of times, these hackers, with a credit card information, there’s a short shelf life, and they have to really do what they can there in terms of fraud. But that’s not the case with our social security numbers, and date of birth, and we have children that will come of age, and more people start making money. And it’s a treasure trove.

Charles Hoff: [00:31:15] So, the government, unfortunately, has been vulnerable. Healthcare with that Anthem breach, remember that? That was, I believe, about 78 million people were affected by that. And right now, you have in America, one in eight Americans have had their health information compromised, which is very sobering. And a lot of people and a lot of commentators will tell you that the next big thing outside of ransomware is that — and everybody is watching to see these data aggregators, which have so much information, so much more than even Equifax, my old employer. And they have sensitive information.

Charles Hoff: [00:31:59] I mean, when you have information that deals with health, I hate to bring it up, but Ashley Madison with that breach, there were actually some suicides, there were some extortion.

Michael Blake: [00:32:11] They went out of business overnight.

Charles Hoff: [00:32:13] And you had where people actually were shamed because what was on. And then, you had people with healthcare items selling their medical records that they don’t want released. So, there is so much sensitivity, and there’s so much vulnerability to that kind of data.

Michael Blake: [00:32:31] And I speculate, but don’t know. I’m curious. Are companies that have electronic point of sale, do they tend to be more vulnerable than others just because those kinds of businesses, by necessity, have a front-facing, basically, portal to their data to the public? Is that fair to say?

Charles Hoff: [00:32:53] Well, yes. I mean, the good news is point of sale systems had gone better. But the thing that people don’t realize so many times, customers don’t realize, is that when they get the POS system they’re represented that, “Hey, this is PCI-compliant.” What they do after with that system may very well take it out of compliance. And it’s how you use them. You have employees surfing. I mean, there’s so many different ways that there could be an issue. It may not be the system itself but how the system is applied.

Michael Blake: [00:33:27] There’s a lot of talk about hacking of foreign origin. Most notably North Korea, Russia, and China. Is that accurate? Is most of the breaching activity indeed coming from abroad, or is that just sort of so much media attention, but there’s just as much coming domestically?

Charles Hoff: [00:33:54] No, that’s pretty accurate. I mean, we have our share domestically. But you have from abroad two different types. You have the nation state, where it’s actually the governments we’re talking about. You mentioned North Korea. Iran is part of that too and China. Of course, China is where we’re now on in terms of influence as far as IP. So, you have the nation states. And then, you have the individuals where, oftentimes, law enforcers are more lax.

Charles Hoff: [00:34:22] And it’s interesting that there are theories about why you have so many of these hackers, these individual hackers, or syndicates in Eastern Europe. And these other sites that we’re talking about. And some people speculate it’s because they have early education, heavy IT training in the lower schools, middle schools; and yet, they do not have a Silicon Valley and the type of opportunities in companies in the private sector to really take that skill and do something good and beneficial to it.

Charles Hoff: [00:34:57] And that’s not condoning in any way, but it’s just a theory as to why there may be so many out there focusing their attention. These are bright people. They could and should be spending their time doing something on the good side and making their money properly. And they probably make a lot given how bright they are.

Michael Blake: [00:35:15] Well, I guess, it goes back to the very old adage, right, “Idle hands are the devil’s playground.”

Charles Hoff: [00:35:21] True. Very, very true.

Michael Blake: [00:35:22] And I suspect, also, that a cyber criminal in Russia knows that they’re not going to be prosecuted-

Charles Hoff: [00:35:30] That’s right.

Charles Hoff: [00:35:32] … for hacking an American system.

Charles Hoff: [00:35:34] That’s exactly right.

Michael Blake: [00:35:35] They’re just not as long as-

Charles Hoff: [00:35:36] They could be a hero.

Michael Blake: [00:35:36] They could be a hero, right. They could get a medal, right?

Charles Hoff: [00:35:39] Yeah.

Michael Blake: [00:35:40] So, as long as our relationship with the Russians is the way it is, they can practice that with impunity. So-

Charles Hoff: [00:35:46] Unfortunately so.

Michael Blake: [00:35:50] One last question I want to cover before we wrap up today is about GDPR. There’s a lot of coverage in that in the media. It’s obvious that it’s a European data standard or data security standard. Can you talk a little bit about that? And at what point does a typical American business need to be concerned with that?

Charles Hoff: [00:36:15] Well, that’s a great question. GDPR is the General Data Protection Regulation. And that came into effect last May. And, really, what you’re seeing here, and it is considered to be the biggest privacy change, a dramatic change in well over 20 years. I mean, now, parliament EU, the parliament passed this. And it’s a matter of law. So, it’s not just best practices or standards they have to require.

Charles Hoff: [00:36:49] And really, what’s fascinating about this, and I’m sure you read with Zuckerberg where he said, he’s been grilled, and Facebook executives have been grilled, shouldn’t there be a GDPR kind of regulation in the States? And he actually said that he would advocate for some form of regulations modeled after the GDPR. And what the GDPR and what the GDPR is all about is it really gives back to to individuals, to consumers the right to have some control and to manage their personal data.

Charles Hoff: [00:37:31] And it gets to the point where data subjects have the right to ask the company what information it has about them and what the company does with this information. In addition, data subject has the right to ask for corrections. They can object the processing, they get larger complaint, and they can even ask for deletion of the information.

Michael Blake: [00:37:56] So, this is a sea change. And it’s something that US companies have to deal with now, on two levels. One is that if you are, say, in the hospitality field, travel, software engineer, a marketing company wherein you have that kind of personal information on EU residents. Look, if you have a targeted website, and you do business with Europe, then you are affected by this. And it is something that is enforceable, and the penalties are incredible. You have where it could be up to 2% or 4% depending how egregious it is of the total global annual turnover, which, of course, is-

Michael Blake: [00:38:39] Revenue.

Charles Hoff: [00:38:40] Yes, yes, made by everybody else, or £10 million or £20 million, whichever is greater. So, you’re looking at something that really has teeth in it. And what you’re seeing now is you’ve heard of the CCPA, the California Consumer Privacy Act, which goes into effect beginning of next year 2020. They have modeled their regulations after the GDPR. And you’re going to see other states now take that up. You may end up with a patchwork of states doing that. And then, there’s a talk about the Federal Government doing a National Government as well.

Charles Hoff: [00:39:18] So, it’s something that is a lot of people are excited about. It’s going to change things dramatically. But the good news is that consumers, now, are going to have the ability to better control, and manage, and give consent to how data about them, personal data is being used, particularly if it’s other than what was obtained for, the purpose it was obtained for.

Michael Blake: [00:39:45] All right. So, we’re running out of time here, and we’re only scratching the surface. This is such a deep topic. This could easily be a one-week seminar, and where even then, we’re just getting started. If someone wants to contact you to learn more about this, maybe explore what their company’s needs are, how can they find you?

Charles Hoff: [00:40:05] We’d be delighted to talk to them. They could look at about.datasecurityu.com. And they can call me at 404-245-6751 or e-mail me at choff@datasecurityu.com. Be delighted to, this is my life, and delighted to talk, and however we can help.

Michael Blake: [00:40:31] Okay. Well, very good. That’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. I would like to thank Charles Hoff so much for joining us and sharing his expertise with us.

Michael Blake: [00:40:39] We’ll be exploring a new topic each week. So, please tune in so that when you’re faced with your next business decision you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy this podcast, please consider leaving a review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us, so that we can help them. Once again, this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision Podcast.

Alan Crowe, Room2work

May 14, 2019 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

Alan Crowe, Room2work

00:00 /

Alan Crowe developed the idea for Room2work in 2016 while President of SpecPoint Incorporated. His experience finding the right space for SpecPoint, plus an understanding of what his customers, mostly contractors, needed in a commercial space, helped form early versions of the Room2work concept.

There are lots of commercial options for business owners that only need office space. However, there’s a substantial gap between a home-based business and the jump to a commercial space if you need storage space for inventory or equipment. Room2work bridges that gap by providing flexible office, meeting, and warehouse space under one roof.

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Decision Vision Episode 14: CEO Peer Groups – An Interview with Marc Borrelli, Vistage Worldwide

May 9, 2019 by John Ray

Decision Vision

Decision Vision Episode 14: CEO Peer Groups – An Interview with Marc Borrelli, Vistage Worldwide

00:00 /

**Marc Borrelli, Vistage Worldwide, and Michael Blake, Host of “Decision Vision”**

CEO Peer Groups

What’s a CEO peer group all about? Should I join one? What’s the return on the investment of participating in such a group? In this edition of “Decision Vision” host Michael Blake, interviews Marc Borrelli, Chair of Vistage Worldwide.

Marc Borrelli, Vistage Worldwide

Marc Borrelli arranges and chairs Vistage Peer Advisory Groups, which have about 16 CEOs in them, meet on a monthly basis to discuss issues and opportunities the members face to provide advice, challenge assumptions, prevent hubris, and then hold the members accountable for the commitments they have made. The members discuss all kinds of issues in these meetings from profits and cash flow, strategic planning, acquisitions, and sales, and challenges with other owners. The members get the benefit of 15 other CEOs helping them, who are not beholden to them for anything, other than being helped themselves. Members come from a wide variety of industries and the only rules are not customers or suppliers. Vistage has 23,000 members worldwide and 17,000 in the US.

Michael Blake, Brady Ware & Company

Brady Ware & Company

Decision Vision Podcast Series

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Show Transcript

Intro: [00:00:01] Welcome to Decision Vision, a podcast series focusing on critical business decisions, brought to you by Brady Ware & Company. Brady Ware is a regional, full-service accounting and advisory firm that helps businesses and entrepreneurs make visions a reality.

Michael Blake: [00:00:20] And welcome back to Decision Vision, a podcast giving you, the listener, clear vision to make great decisions. In each episode, we discuss the process of decision making on a different topic. Rather than making recommendations because everyone’s circumstances are different, we talk to subject matter experts about how they would recommend thinking about that decision.

Michael Blake: [00:00:38] My name is Mike Blake, and I’m your host for today’s program. I’m a Director at Brady Ware & Company, a full-service accounting firm based in Dayton, Ohio, with offices in Dayton; Columbus, Ohio; Richmond, Indiana; and Alpharetta, Georgia, which is where we are recording today. Brady Ware is sponsoring this podcast. If you like this podcast, please subscribe on your favorite podcast aggregator and please also consider leaving a review of the podcast as well.

Michael Blake: [00:01:02] So, today we’re going to talk about CEO/executive peer study groups. And these are groups that are entities that have like-minded or ostensibly like-minded decision makers where they, kind of, have group therapy, study issues together, and learn from one another. And there are number of groups that are all over the place, literally, worldwide.

Michael Blake: [00:01:27] And it’s an interesting model because being CEO of any organization is a very lonely place, and everyone expects you to have the answers, sometimes, even unrealistically. And just like we’ve kind of asked, “Who does the therapist talk to when they’re feeling depressed?” who does the decision maker turn to when they need some help making important decisions, but they don’t necessarily know who to turn to, and maybe not warrant engaging in consulting, or may require a different relationship than what a consultant could provide? And it’s a big decision. I know these groups help a lot of people. And for other people, it’s not necessarily the right fit.

Michael Blake: [00:02:10] And joining us to help us work through this is Marc Borrelli. Marc Borrelli arranges and chairs Vistage Peer Advisory Groups, which have about sixteen CEOs in them. They meet on a monthly basis to discuss issues and opportunities the members face to provide advice, challenge assumptions, prevent hubris, and then hold the members accountable for the commitments they have made. The members discuss all kinds of issues in these meetings from profits, to cash flow, strategic planning, acquisitions, and sales, and challenges with other owners. Not necessarily among the other owners, just challenges among the other owners.

Michael Blake: [00:02:46] The members get the benefit of 15 other CEOs helping them who are not beholden to them for anything other than being helped themselves. Members come from a wide variety of industries. And the only rules are not customers or suppliers. Vistage has 23,000 members worldwide and 17,000 in the United States. Marc has 30 years of strategy and investment banking experience. Marc is expertly positioned to offer a range of unique advisory services, and he’s worked across Europe, Africa, and the United States, closing more than 100 transactions worth over $3 billion, and is perhaps best known for his fluency in the language of numbers.

Michael Blake: [00:03:23] He is a current chair of the Technology Association of Georgia’s Corporate Development Board, which basically means M&A advocacy, and is a CFA charter holder. Marc is a sharp, sharp guy who is not afraid to tell you what he thinks and why. And that’s why he’s going to be a great interview today. Marc, thanks for coming on.

Marc Borrelli: [00:03:41] Thank you for having me.

Michael Blake: [00:03:43] So, Marc, you’ve done all this stuff. You do deals, doing deals of very intense, fast-paced, sort of, all out kind of profession. And then, you decide to go and become an educator. Why?

Marc Borrelli: [00:03:57] So, I think, to cut this long story short, way back, when I started my own M&A firm, somebody from Vistage approached me and said, “Are you interested in joining a Vistage Group?” And being a very conceited, young 40-year-old, I turned around and said, “God, no. I know everything. I don’t need you. I’m an M&A expert.” Fast forward about — Actually, I was in my mid-30s. And fast forward 10 years, and I was in my mid-40s, I’d just gone through a divorce. I was in a child custody battle. My business was on the ropes. And another person came along and asked the same question, and I grabbed the lifeline with both hands before I drowned.

Marc Borrelli: [00:04:31] So, I think, yes. I think everybody gets — and I was in the group for years, and then I decided to come and do this. And it’s not really — I like your term educate. I don’t think it’s an educator. And, I think, truly, the groups you get into, the benefit I always say is challenging the assumptions and truly finding out what the underlying question is. It’s not there to provide magic answers. It’s not like we lift up the Magic 8 ball at every meeting and say, “Okay, this is what you have to do.” But it’s really asking questions and deep questions to find out what the real issue is, and then getting the person to commit to do something, and then holding them accountable.

Marc Borrelli: [00:05:07] And that’s what I love about it. I love seeing people succeed and grow. I think the people who don’t like it in a lot of cases, or like I was in my mid 30s, they think they know it all, I always say, to be a great Vistage member, you have to have experienced pain, and suffered, and you realize you don’t know it all, and you need help every day.

Michael Blake: [00:05:25] So, you need to be broken down before you’re ready to join Vistage.

Marc Borrelli: [00:05:28] Absolutely, absolutely. Yes.

Michael Blake: [00:05:33] You mentioned asking the right questions, and it calls to mind an Einstein quote that goes something like, “”Finding solutions is easy. It’s asking the right questions that’s the hard part.” Right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:05:45] Absolutely.

Michael Blake: [00:05:46] And I think that’s what’s drawn me to you and our friendship over the years is that you do ask great questions, and you don’t take anything for granted. Even if it’s something that maybe we thought was true two years ago, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true today, right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:06:02] No. And I think that’s the hardest thing for business members, business owners, and CEOs, and for myself is the world is changing so fast. I’ll give you an example. I recently gave every one of my Vistage members Tom Friedman’s book, Thank You for Being Late, which is about how much the world has changed, and technology is changing, everything. And the speed of change is affecting every area of our business. Whatever model got us to here — it’s a great book. What got you to here won’t get you to there. And that’s why we need others to challenge us, and make us think, and just digressing slightly. The common complaint I hear is, “Damn, these millennials, how do we work with them?” And it’s like they’re now the biggest sector of the working population. You got to figure this out.

Michael Blake: [00:06:42] Right.

Marc Borrelli: [00:06:43] You can complain about them, but if you don’t figure out how to make them happy and keep them, you’re going to lose, not them.

Michael Blake: [00:06:48] Right. Really, they’re saying, “Damn, how we’re going to work with these Gen Xer’s and late baby boomers, right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:06:53] Exactly.

Michael Blake: [00:06:54] That’s really the conversation that’s going on. We’re going to be in a position where we’ve got to justify ourselves to them, and we probably seem clinically insane too many of them.

Marc Borrelli: [00:07:04] Totally, yes.

Michael Blake: [00:07:05] And maybe they’re not wrong.

Marc Borrelli: [00:07:07] No. And I think it’s very interesting for those of us, we’re about the same age, we grew up in an environment where you’ve joined a company, you paid your dues, you worked hard, nobody thanked you, and you just accepted that was the norm. And it was interesting in the Vistage Group, somebody posed the question, you have the most perfect employee sitting across from you that you’re interviewing that you really want, and they look at you and say, “Why should I join your organization?” And nobody could answer the question. I mean, they all said, “Because we’re a great company.” And the person who raised it said, “So, all the other companies will say ‘We’re really bad companies. Come here and be abused.'” No, they all say they’re great. So, how do you sell this?

Marc Borrelli: [00:07:45] And I think that’s the challenge that we have to deal with, and that’s what I love about it. It’s always new, and it’s always interesting, and helping people try, and just do it better.

Michael Blake: [00:07:55] I’ve got to have some discipline because if I take the conversation the way I want to, we’ll be here three hours later, and they’re going to cut us off. So, I got to stay on topic. It’s just so hard with you. There’s so many peer executive types of groups out there. Vistage is one. There are others. Some are just informal. Others are formalized. What do you think sets Vistage apart from those other groups, if anything?

Marc Borrelli: [00:08:17] So, I think if you look at all four groups, they all have some component of four things. They’re either networking groups, they are social groups, they are personal improvement groups, and they’re business improvement groups. As I tell people, Vistage is not a networking group. We don’t encourage you doing business with each other. We’re not a BNI group. We don’t want that.

Marc Borrelli: [00:08:39] We’re not really a social group. Yeah, we do get together a couple of times a year, but it’s not our key thing. YPO is probably the greatest and best social group. We are a business improvement and a personal improvement. That’s what we focus on. So, I think when you’re looking it, what do you want out of the group? And then, of course, there are some groups that have specific categories like religious affiliations, which we don’t have. We’re open. We believe the more diverse the members, the better input you get, and the better results you get. But I think that’s what you look at is what is it you want out of the group.

Michael Blake: [00:09:12] So, what kinds of topics have you been covering in your group over the last year? Can you talk about that, or is it confidential?

Marc Borrelli: [00:09:20] No, absolutely. Well, I won’t give names away, so it’s not confidential. So, on some of the more simple things we’ve been talking about is getting lines of credit available and making sure you well banked, so if a downturn comes you can get through it financially. How do we challenge clients who are not paying us on a timely basis and get our receivables down? Some people are looking for a COO to help them grow the business through the next stage, which comes into things like technology systems, implementing ERP systems, for advice on that.

Marc Borrelli: [00:09:54] A common one is my exit strategy. Your exit strategy might be you’re the owner, and you’re going to exit at some point, or even more simply, I’m the key person in the private equity own group, and I don’t want to be sold with the company at the next sale. So, how do I build my exit? Some people, it’s as simple as what does success mean for you in your organization. They haven’t really thought that through. And then, we get into some of the more personal ones. And I’m not going to give names, but I’ve had people deal with issues like children with drug problems, abuse issues. So, we cover a wide gamut of things.

Michael Blake: [00:10:29] So, that’s interesting. So, your discussions do bleed over into the personal-

Marc Borrelli: [00:10:34] Oh totally.

Michael Blake: [00:10:34] … as life part of the work life.

Marc Borrelli: [00:10:36] I come from the assumption that we’re here to help you with anything that affects your business. And as I tell people, having been through a divorce and, now, proudly wear the t-shirt, for a year, you’re useless. Your mind is not focused, you’re distracted, you cannot put the attention you need in. And if that’s one of your issues, or you’ve got a dying parent, or child going through some trauma, you are heavily distracted, which affects your business. Now, we’re not therapists. I’m not going to claim we provide therapy, and we’re not going to tell you, but we’re going to try and give you coping mechanisms.

Marc Borrelli: [00:11:08] So, for instance, one of my members is going through a serious litigation at the moment, very distracted by it, and it’s just simple things like the members reach out to him on a regular basis, see if they can help him. Remind him, “Are you meditating? Are you getting a break from it? Because if you don’t do these things, it will consume you.” And as one member said to him, “Look, don’t worry about the litigation, beat them at business. If you beat them at business, you’ve won.” So, it’s just helping people come at it from different perspectives.

Michael Blake: [00:11:34] So, your group then must get pretty tight pretty quickly I would imagine.

Marc Borrelli: [00:11:41] Yes. You’d definitely see there are two types of people that come in the group, those that get tight, and they get together socially. And I encourage that because you’re not going to care about other people and take care of them unless you know them. And then, there’s some that never really get socially involved for whatever reason, and they tend to drift off.

Marc Borrelli: [00:11:58] So, yes, I try and encourage my group. This is a personal thing. Every Vistage Group is different. As of this year, we try and get together four times a year for dinners. Twice a year, we have spouses. We do retreats, I’m going on a retreat with another group next week. I believe the more you’re entangled with each other, the more you care about each other, the more you’re going to help each other. And that’s what this is about.

Michael Blake: [00:12:21] Okay. Now, obviously, although you’re providing it good, it is a commercial exercise.

Marc Borrelli: [00:12:25] Absolutely.

Michael Blake: [00:12:25] So, if I’m thinking about, “This sounds interesting, I might be able to make use of it,” what are the economics look like? What are the costs look like?

Marc Borrelli: [00:12:36] So, basically, in my main Vistage Groups, it’s about $1600 a month to be a member. It has a 90-day termination clause. So, it’s not payable for a whole year upfront. You just pay monthly. And then, once a month, you have to host a meeting, which means you have to provide all the food and the facilities. Now, we also do retreats and dinners where everybody pays their share. So, if I’m looking at all those numbers, you’re just over 20 grand a year.

Marc Borrelli: [00:13:01] A lot of people look at me and say, “Oh my God. I could never afford that.” Being a business person and investment banker, my mind automatically goes to numbers, as you mentioned. So, I’m looking at it, and I say, “Well, what’s the ROI on it? And if you’re the CEO of a business, what’s your average decision? Now, hopefully you’re not just deciding on paper clips, but if you’re deciding on hiring senior people or new market stand, your average decisions got to be over 100 grand a year. And if the group helps you make one good decision a year, the ROI is 500%. So, where can you go wrong with this?”

Marc Borrelli: [00:13:35] Now, some people say, “Well, the group didn’t help me with their decisions.” And I was like, “Well, you didn’t bring a good question to the group,” or “If you just want them to pat you on the back, that’s not using them effectively,” but yes. So, I think there is cost, as you said, but there should be a return on it.

Michael Blake: [00:13:49] And how many groups do you have?

Marc Borrelli: [00:13:51] I have two CEO groups. My one group is from a million to about 8 million in revenue. My other groups 8 million to 50 million in revenue. And I’ve split them because the bigger companies just have more employees and a different type of issue. And then, I have a third group, which is less expensive, but it’s not for CEOs, it’s for senior executives within organizations that are coming up.

Michael Blake: [00:14:12] Okay. And so, that’s a peer group to help them from a career counseling standpoint?

Marc Borrelli: [00:14:16] Correct, yes.

Michael Blake: [00:14:19] Okay. So, did you have a chance to meet other — is your official title a facilitator? Are you a group leader, are you-

Marc Borrelli: [00:14:29] I’m called the Chair.

Michael Blake: [00:14:29] … the ayatollah?

Marc Borrelli: [00:14:30] I am called the Chair of the group. And I guess if you wanted to say anything, I’m a facilitator.

Michael Blake: [00:14:37] Okay. So, as the chair/facilitator of the group, do you have a chance to meet other chair facilitators? And if so, how much do you differ, or do you tend to have a very kind of consistent profile?

Marc Borrelli: [00:14:52] No, I think we’re all very different. And, at least, I meet within the Vistage community. All the chairs get together once a month to discuss best practices and different things. I think we’re all different. We all bring different skill sets because of our background to the table. I bring a financial background. Other people run HR companies, so they bring an HR background. We’re all different.

Marc Borrelli: [00:15:12] I think having spoken to people who were in other organizations, which didn’t have a “facilitator” or somebody in charge, and they took turns, they have said to me that they didn’t find the issues we run as well because nobody is trained to do it. My job is not to jump and tell everybody the answer. My job is just to keep the conversation, draw people out, and make sure everybody gets — I herd the cats.

Michael Blake: [00:15:36] So, do you find then that you tend to draw people that already have an affinity for numbers, data, analytics, finance, or is it the opposite? Do you tend to draw people that know that that’s a weakness of theirs, and they’re hoping that you’re going to plug that or somehow fill that gap?

Marc Borrelli: [00:15:55] I wish I could say it was one or the other, but it doesn’t seem to be either. I have people who are very numerate, and I have people who have no clue, and I’m trying to educate those that don’t. But, again, it comes back to what do you really want to learn? And, often, I tell people, “Look, as a CEO, it’s not so much what you have to learn on the finance side. It’s actually just knowing the numbers you need to look at to make sure your business is operating.”

Marc Borrelli: [00:16:19] So, I encourage all the CEOs that I work with to get custom dashboards built for them that, at one glance, they can tell what’s going on in their business. They should get them every week or less depending on — I mean, more often than that, depending on what their business is, but they should not be delving into Quickbooks or whatever the accounting package they have spending hours looking at reports.

Michael Blake: [00:16:39] That’s probably got to be music to many of their ears?

Marc Borrelli: [00:16:44] It is, but they can’t resist.

Michael Blake: [00:16:45] Yeah.

Marc Borrelli: [00:16:45] They get sucked back into Quickbooks. And I see them all playing with reports, and I’m like, “You shouldn’t be doing this. This is not good return on your time.”

Michael Blake: [00:16:52] Problem with so many business owners, they’re very heavily — they’re type A detail-oriented people.

Marc Borrelli: [00:16:57] Yes.

Michael Blake: [00:16:57] And, I guess, sometimes, you have to tell them like, “What are you doing this for?” Right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:17:00] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:17:02] Now what about like personality of the facilitator. Would you say they are different personalities? Maybe some are what we call sort of an American football coach, and others are more kind of nurturing, or is there a spectrum of personalities as chair facilitators?

Marc Borrelli: [00:17:18] That’s an interesting question. I think there is a variety. And some chairs have been coaches, and some chairs are maybe more touchy-feely. But I think at the end of the day, we’re encouraged to through Vistage, and I think what really works, is we’re what we call carefrontational. We care about you. We want you to succeed, but we’re not going to let you off the hook. We’re going to hold your feet to the fire. You said you were going to do this. Why haven’t you done it?

Marc Borrelli: [00:17:43] And as I always tell people, in Vistage, there’s no public flogging, but humiliation in front of your peers on a regular basis, it will destroy you. So, you got to stand up. And it’s very hard to turn around to a group of people who are also CEOs and say, “Well, I didn’t do it because I’m busy.” And you just get these looks like, “Really? Tell me about it.”

Michael Blake: [00:18:02] We’re recording this right before April 15th, and I don’t ever use the phrase, “I am busy inside of my firm.” I’ll simply be thrown out of our third=floor window.

Marc Borrelli: [00:18:13] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:18:17] What kind of time commitment is required? Now, we’ve talked about the cost, right? So, I guess you have monthly meetings. Is that right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:18:23] Correct. So, our group meets once a month as a group. And then, I meet with every member for an hour to an hour and a half during the month. What I tell my members is, “Look, there are 12 meetings a year. I expect you to make nine. People have business trips, family events, you get sick, client unexpected issues arise, you make nine.”.

Marc Borrelli: [00:18:43] But your time commitment is, I think, the most interesting question because speaking to those that I think are really engaged, and want to get the most out of it, and those that do get the most out of it actually invest the time preparing for the meeting. So, they think about the issue they want to bring. They think about all the information they need to present to the group. And so, when they come in, they’re prepared, and they think about, “If there’s a speaker, what do I want to learn from it?” So, they do a lot of upfront preparation. And afterwards, they spend time implementing it.

Marc Borrelli: [00:19:10] Those that don’t get much out of it don’t spend any preparation, walk into the meeting, haven’t thought about anything except they’re just walking in. They don’t really have a good issue. They are sure as heck they can’t give you any information about it, and they don’t really pay attention afterward. And, again, I herd the cats, I can’t make them. But I always say to them, “Look, you’ve spent money on this. If you’re meeting with your lawyer or your accountant, would you just walk into the room with no papers, no backup, and sit there, and know that they’re charging you by the hour to sit there and say nothing?” And they say, “No.” And I said, “Well, why don’t you do that? This is your board. These are your advisers. They’re here to help you. If you invest the time, you will get a greater return.” So, I think people should.

Michael Blake: [00:19:50] And probably the people that don’t prepare, that’s probably a symptom of something else.

Marc Borrelli: [00:19:55] Absolutely.

Michael Blake: [00:19:56] Right? Chances are that’s not the only thing in their business life for which they’re routinely systematically unprepared?

Marc Borrelli: [00:20:04] I would say that’s true, but I would say there is a culture, especially in the US, but it’s infecting the rest of the world, is we’re busy, we believe we’re successful. And I’m really fighting that culture to say-

Michael Blake: [00:20:17] I think, that’s right.

Michael Blake: [00:20:17] I think busy is not a sign of success. Success is thinking, if you’re the leader, you don’t need to be busy, you need to be thinking, you need busy people under you, but you need to be thinking about where the ship is going, and how you’re going to get it there. And getting caught up in the daily minutia is not helping. I try encourage members, the best thing you can do is take two weeks off at a time, and go let your brain regenerate.

Michael Blake: [00:20:40] It’s a very interesting point. And I have to admit, I fall into that trap that I think that being busy is ipso facto good, and it isn’t necessarily. And I think it just comes from this puritanical streak that we have as Americans that idle hands are the devil’s playground et cetera, et cetera. But you’re right, being able to sort of take us a step back, it’s amazing what your mind can do if you force it to do nothing.

Marc Borrelli: [00:21:14] Exactly. Well, I think on that. I’m going to throw two things out that I tell my members, and some do, and some don’t, is you should have an automatic reply in your e-mail that says I’ve received your e-mail, I will revert to you within 48 hours.

Michael Blake: [00:21:25] Ha!

Marc Borrelli: [00:21:26] Because all people want to know is, did you get the e-mail? That’s the main thing. And if you give yourself two days to think about it, you will probably come to a better solution than if you just shoot something off on the spur of the moment without giving it true deep thought.

Marc Borrelli: [00:21:42] And then the second thing I say to them is when you go on holiday, putting out of office e-mail which doesn’t just say, “I’m out of the office,” but says, “I will be gone for this date and this date. I’ll check email once a day, but I’m not checking this address. Please email me at this new address.” And the new address is, “I’m terribly sorry to interrupt your personal family vacation at…” whatever your alias. Nobody will ever send you an e-mail to that address. And we just copy people, we send this stuff out, and we all become slaves, and jump to it. And I think it’s a waste of our mental energy and our physical energy.

Michael Blake: [00:22:11] That’s a great point. That’s something I’ve learned and one of the few benefits of getting gray hair and two arthritic ankles is a little bit of wisdom and realizing you don’t have to respond to every email as it comes in, right? And I can’t tell you how many times I felt like I had a much better response by just stepping away, sleeping on it, and often just say, “Look, I got it.” That’s what most people want. What annoys people if you don’t respond and don’t even acknowledge that you’ve got it.

Marc Borrelli: [00:22:43] Correct.

Michael Blake: [00:22:43] If you acknowledge that you received the e-mail, the person that sent it then knows they are in the queue. You’re, at least, important enough to respond in that way. And then, they know they’re not being ignored. Being ignored really pisses people off when you get right down to it.

Marc Borrelli: [00:22:56] Exactly. But as you said, rushed answers are bad. One last point on this is I try and say to people, “Look, when you finish a meeting, don’t rush into the next meeting. Can you set yourself 30 minutes just to reflect on what truly happened, and what’s really important, and what you need to do?” Because we rush, and I’m guilty, I rush all day from meeting to meeting, and I get to the end of the day, I forgot what I promised at the first meeting. And it’s something I’m working on to try and be more effective with my time.

Michael Blake: [00:23:20] Not to mention, the emotional tenor from meeting to meeting may be entirely different, right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:23:25] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:23:25] But if you go from a dispute mediation into a sales meeting, can you imagine? You can’t handle those. Oh sorry, you just wanted the proposal? Got it. Okay.

Marc Borrelli: [00:23:37] Yeah, yeah.

Michael Blake: [00:23:37] So, you’re right, having that time to sort of kind of reset and center, that is part of time management is giving yourself that space to then, kind of, reset because in a different meeting, you have to play a different role, right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:23:51] Correct.

Michael Blake: [00:23:53] So, are there sorts of personalities that tend to do well in peer groups or ones that don’t do well in peer groups? I guess, know-it-all isn’t great.

Marc Borrelli: [00:24:03] I would say, the ones that don’t do well are know-it-alls and people who don’t care about others. You have to go in saying, “Look, I’m going to get stuff out of this, but what I really want to do is help everybody else.” And if you go in there with either, “I’m superior to everybody else, I know more than everybody else, and I don’t really care about these people,” you’re not going to work out. If you go in there saying, “I can learn from everybody…”

Marc Borrelli: [00:24:27] We have a guy in my group, and those who know him would recognize from his description. He has the worst ADHD of anybody I’ve ever met but has more interesting ideas than any human I ever met. He’s who’s got more patents in process. And the more you get to know this character, the more amazing he is. But a lot of people wrote him off in the beginning because he’s all over the place, and he’s not focused, and you think, “How does this guy get by?” But then, as you get to know him, when you peel back the onion, like this is truly an amazing person.

Marc Borrelli: [00:24:55] And so, I think, there are those that come in saying, “I’ve built my business to X, and I don’t need to talk to anybody else because I’ve done it, and I’m so great.” And I think it’s those that have realized that there are great people in many different guises, and they can all add something who will truly benefit from.

Michael Blake: [00:25:12] Now, what does it take when you — presumably, you prepare extensively for one of these meetings, what does your preparation routine look like?

Marc Borrelli: [00:25:23] So, it depends on the meeting. What I try and do is when I meet with my members one on one is to find out what issues are going on in their life. So, if I find an issue, I will say, “You should bring this issue to the group. And here’s a form. This what you need to write down. Try and bring all this information to the group.” I’ll think of exercises to do with them.

Marc Borrelli: [00:25:45] So, to give you an example of one I’m doing right now, and a number of Vistage Chairs are doing it, And I’ll go back to the beginning, Vistage has an event once a year for all the chairs. And Jim Collins who wrote Good to Great was there, and he spoke about Good to Great and the 12 questions for leadership, and we thought this is great.

Marc Borrelli: [00:26:01] So, I’m sitting down with all my group going through each of the questions. So, we start out with the flywheel. What is your flywheel? Define how your flywheel works? How do you confront the brutal facts? How do you know you have the right people regardless where on the bus they are? And then, you put them in. So, thinking through these things, sending them out links to documents, YouTube videos on this stuff, and then saying, “Okay. This is what we’re going to discuss.” And carving aside, anybody presents it. And then, we challenge each other. And I always say, “You’re open to challenge.” So, yeah, things like that.

Michael Blake: [00:26:32] Are there particular industries that you think CEO peer groups tend to serve better than others, or can it be adapted to any industry, whether it’s high tech, e-commerce, or janitorial services?

Marc Borrelli: [00:26:49] I think it can be adapted to any industry. The only place I think it has a bit of a problem, and maybe I’m wrong, because there are people in groups from these companies, but I think a large professional partnership is sometimes more difficult because nobody, even the managing partner, as a managing partner of an accounting firm once said to me, “We have all the responsibility and no authority.” So, they find it hard.

Marc Borrelli: [00:27:11] But I have a lawyer in one of my groups, and he said to me, “Why should I join? I’m a lawyer. I don’t know about selling and marketing.” And I said, “Well, you should. I mean, today, we all have to sell, we have to market, we have to collect. So, yes, your expertise may be in another area, but you still got to do all these business functions to get ahead, and build your model, and think of a different way of doing business.” So, I think everybody can benefit if you go in with an open mind.

Michael Blake: [00:27:36] Yeah. And that advice of having to sell, I mean, I long learned there are people in my industry and finance that are sufficiently technical. They can just be the technical nerd in the corner and thrive. I ain’t that smart. So, I have to develop other skills as a survival path. All right. So, how long does the meeting last?

Marc Borrelli: [00:27:59] That’s an all-day meeting.

Michael Blake: [00:28:00] All-day meeting. So, what happens? Kind of go through the order of battle in a given meeting.

Marc Borrelli: [00:28:07] So, eight times a year, we have a speaker. So, the speaker will come in in the morning. They will talk for about 3-3.5 hours on a subject matter area of expertise to them. And if we don’t have a speaker, we’ll think of either we’ll do what I’m going to describe next for the rest of the meeting, or I may present a topic of discussion.

Marc Borrelli: [00:28:29] So, aside from the speaker, what we’d usually do, we have what we call a check-in. Everybody goes around, says what’s happened since the last meeting personally and privately in their lives, what’s good, what’s bad. Then, we have a host of the meeting who I mentioned is responsible. They get an hour to present their business, their issues, and tell us about what they’re thinking, what are their three-year plans, what’s the business plan, what’s their exit, what challenges they’re facing. And that’s usually an in-depth discussion.

Marc Borrelli: [00:28:58] And then, the rest of the meeting, really, is everybody writes up issues or opportunities they’re facing. And we sit down, and we go through our process of asking, probing questions. When we’ve got no more questions, we then go around and ask everybody what they would recommend they would do if they were the person with the issue.

Marc Borrelli: [00:29:12] When everybody’s told them what they would do – and during this time, they’re not allowed to say anything, they just listen – we basically turn to them and say, “So, what are you going to do?” And they could say, “I like what John said,” or “I like what Mary said,” or “I think you’re all a bunch of idiots, and I’m going to do something else.” And we don’t really care, but we say. “Okay, So, you’re going to do X, and when are you going to do it by?”.

Marc Borrelli: [00:29:31] And when you come to the meeting next month, “Did you do it?” And if you didn’t do it, then we’ll say, “Well, do you want somebody in the group to be a wingman, and remind you, and lead you through it?” And if you repeatedly don’t do it, then there’s an issue that you haven’t really gone into.”

Michael Blake: [00:29:42] Right, there’s a deeper issue. I guess.

Marc Borrelli: [00:29:44] Exactly.

Michael Blake: [00:29:45] So, you have a buddy system, almost like alcoholics anonymous, right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:29:48] Oh totally. There’s a joke in Vistage where AA is for CEOs.

Michael Blake: [00:29:52] Oh, is that right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:29:53] Yeah. Because they need somebody. And the thing I found, and I speak for myself knowing this as my own behavior, is when we’re stressed, we revert back to what we like to do because it’s comfortable. And CEOs, like everybody else, get stressed. They’ve got big decisions, and they don’t know what to do with them. So, they revert back into their comfort zones.

Marc Borrelli: [00:30:12] I have one member who’s very stressed with things going on. I spoke to him the other day, and I’m like, “What have you been doing?” And he’s like, “I was rebuilding our website.” And I’m like, “Why are you rebuilding? You should not be rebuilding a website. This is not your time.” But that’s where he’s comfortable. And so, he’s reverting back. And I think where the group is there is to help pull you out and focus on.

Michael Blake: [00:30:30] Are there certain kinds of questions or challenges that you found a group like this is not particularly adept at addressing?

Marc Borrelli: [00:30:42] I would say the hardest thing with a bunch of CEOs, and this is reflective, again, of being CEOs is you have to train them to go through their probing questions. They’re all ready to jump in and tell you the answer. And it’s only through the questions we truly find the issue and think about what it is. So, the hardest thing when the group starts, and even you’ve got to keep reminding them, “Guys, this is not the time for solutions. We’re working on questions. Wait. Think about it.” And it’s that old adage that we all fall victim to, “When you ask a question. actually, listen to the answer. Don’t prepare your next question.”

Michael Blake: [00:31:17] It sounds like that age old Mars, Venus thing, right?

Michael Blake: [00:31:20] Yeah, absolutely.

Marc Borrelli: [00:31:21] You want to try to solve the problem, but, in fact, until you’ve asked enough questions, you don’t really know what the problem is.

Marc Borrelli: [00:31:28] Exactly.

Michael Blake: [00:31:28] Right.

Marc Borrelli: [00:31:28] Yeah. So, that in itself on that, some of your members may struggle with initially, and that is a skill that they develop.

Marc Borrelli: [00:31:39] Yes.

Michael Blake: [00:31:39] Right? Because if they carry that into their business life, that means they can then seek better and more input in a more honest and vulnerable way from their other resources. It could be their subordinates, their other officers board, and can be more effective in that way too, right? The sort of a sneaky little personality business skill that gets inculcated there.

Marc Borrelli: [00:32:01] Yeah. And hopefully, some of them do. But there are still a bunch who, “I’m the boss.” It reminds me of the classic scene when we’re talking about age things. It’s the Italian Job movie with Michael Caine, the original version. It came out the ’60s. And there’s a great line, and he says, “This job requires team effort, which means you all do exactly what I say.” And it’s breaking that and making them here.

Marc Borrelli: [00:32:23] The thing I found with CEOs, and I’m making a huge generalization, but most of them have one or two skills or both. They either invent something, or they’re great salesman, or they’re great salesmen and they invented it, which means they know their products, and they know their best customers. They have no idea what’s happening in the finances. HR is a mess. Legal doesn’t exist. I’m trying to arrange them to be slightly broad and understand these other parts, especially the HR side. It’s the most common areas motivating people, retaining, people, culture.

Marc Borrelli: [00:32:51] I heard a great line the other day, “Is you’re onboarding process more akin to waterboarding?” And I love that because I think we hire people, we don’t do anything, then we wonder why they leave. It’s this new environment. We’re talking about millennials.

Michael Blake: [00:33:05] We put you through our process. What’s the problem?

Marc Borrelli: [00:33:07] Right, exactly.

Michael Blake: [00:33:07] I mean, yeah, you got waterboarded, but I mean, it’s that sunny area, tropical weather, beach front property you can see.

Marc Borrelli: [00:33:16] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:33:17] Right. So, you mentioned that one of your groups is $1 to $8 million in revenue. And the other is $8 and above basically. I infer from that then, do you need to have a company with a million bucks of revenue to be involved in a Vistage group, or is that just sort of where you’ve carved out your delineations?

Marc Borrelli: [00:33:35] No, you don’t need to be a million bucks and above. But I do find the companies under a million bucks find the financial commitment and the time commitment very hard. Now, the companies that do come in under a million bucks are, usually, professional groups like lawyers, accountants, maybe some engineers, architects, but because they’re more — and I’m not knocking saying the others aren’t professional, but they had that structure, and they have a lot of systems in place.

Marc Borrelli: [00:33:59] But under a million bucks, even my group that’s a million to eight, what I refer them to is my entrepreneurial group or entrepreneurial management group. And what I mean is all spokes feed into the center. And then, my larger group has more of a professional management where they have various functions under them, and the CEO is truly being a CEO. And those where the CEO has everybody feed into them, they’re very distracted, they’re very hard to focus. And, again, companies under a million, the CEO is just getting yanked. They don’t show up for most the meetings. They’re always about the numbers. They’ll sell anything and promise anything. I mean, they’re the people who need it the most, but most can’t commit to it.

Michael Blake: [00:34:37] Probably because they’re so and probably necessarily involved in the tactical-

Marc Borrelli: [00:34:42] Correct.

Michael Blake: [00:34:44] … that they just don’t have the bandwidth to address the strategic.

Marc Borrelli: [00:34:48] Exactly.

Michael Blake: [00:34:48] Right?

Marc Borrelli: [00:34:49] Yeah.

Michael Blake: [00:34:52] Yeah. You don’t think about, “How I’m going to put in a new sprinkler system?” when there’s a four-alarm fire right in front of you, I guess.

Marc Borrelli: [00:34:58] Right.

Michael Blake: [00:34:59] So, let’s say there’s a listener now that that is listening to this thing, “I merely thought about this, but I think I’d like to learn more,” is there a system or a path where somebody can perform due diligence on a peer group before making that commitment? It doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that sells itself, well, kind of shrink-wrapped and off the shelf, right? It sounds like it’s got to be the right fit. So, how can a business owner figure out if a group is right for them without sort of making the big upfront commitment?

Marc Borrelli: [00:35:36] Well, I think, first of all, every group is different. So, there’s no standard. But what I do with my potential members, if I meet somebody that’s interested, I’ll say, “Okay.” First of all, I meet with them, learn about their business tone, learn about Vistage. At the end of that meeting, if I think they’d be a good member, then I say, “Okay. We need another meeting. You cannot sign up today. I’m not selling you anything.”

Marc Borrelli: [00:35:58] I then, go back, and we have a much longer meeting, probe more deeply, and there are questions I want to find out about their caring side, how much they’re willing to try new things. I always ask them. “When was the last time you did something new for the first time?” If you’re not learning and pushing yourself, you’re probably not a good fit.

Marc Borrelli: [00:36:15] If they get through that meeting, then I say to them, “Look, I’m interested. I think you’d be a good member. Now, you have to come and meet the group. While they’re not the final authority, they have a huge input into whether or not you come into this group. And because you have to fit with them, and (A), they have to like you, but (B), you also have to like them.”.

Marc Borrelli: [00:36:33] So, I usually get them to come to a meeting, and they sit through a meeting. And at the end of the meeting, I’m like, “Okay, you can wait, and I’ll ask the group if they want you. And then if they say you’re in, and you decide you want in, then you’re in. And if you’re not, go away and enjoy your life.”

Michael Blake: [00:36:49] Okay.

Marc Borrelli: [00:36:49] And I usually find it helpful too, if they come to a meeting to have the present an issue. I’m like, “Really come with an issue. Present it, and get feedback, and learn new things.”

Michael Blake: [00:37:00] Okay. Now there are probably people out there that have maybe tried a peer group like this in some fashion that, for whatever reason, didn’t work out. Maybe they weren’t emotionally ready to handle it, maybe the company wasn’t mature enough, whatever, or just life happens. Is it possibly worth them circling back and revisiting the issue? Maybe the second time around will be different.

Marc Borrelli: [00:37:25] I think so. I think the best way I can describe it is groups like ours are necessary but not urgent. And so, people put them off or say, “Well, I didn’t have the time.” I think if you put the time and the effort, you will find the reward huge. And it’s like having a gym membership. You got to go, and you got to work hard to make it worthwhile; otherwise, it’s not.

Marc Borrelli: [00:37:48] What happens is people sign up, but they’re passive members, and they don’t get anything out of it. So, if you truly want to be a leader, there are competitors out there all the time. Everybody’s challenging your business. If you want to stay ahead of the crowd, a group like this will help you, but you’ve got to put in the effort and the time.

Michael Blake: [00:38:05] Is there any kind of success story that comes to mind, someone that’s been in one of your Vistage groups, and they’re just a great example of somebody that’s been helped in a clear fantastic way?

Marc Borrelli: [00:38:17] There are quite a few. I think, I look at one gentleman who’s in my Vistage group. He was in a different type of peer group, but he came to Vistage because he wanted a strict facilitator. He said, “We used to meet, but it had no direction.” And he’s basically got to the point. He says, “In seven years, I don’t want to work anymore. That doesn’t mean I’ve sold my business. It just means I don’t want to work. And I’m putting in place all the steps.” So, we met recently, he’s got a COO, he’s got a CFO, he’s putting on an ERP system. His business is growing 30% a year. And his goal is that in seven years, he will not work, but the money will keep coming in. To me, that is a great success story.

Marc Borrelli: [00:38:57] There’s another guy I know who wasn’t in one of my groups but a Vistage member. And he brought in a present, and he said to me, “I have a house out in the country. I’m in my house, country house, Monday through Thursday. I come into Atlanta on Fridays. Meet with the president of my company, figure out what the issues are that we need to discuss, if any. And then, I spend the weekend socializing with my wife and friends. And on Monday morning, I go back to the country and do the stuff I like on my farm.” And he said I make more money now than I ever made before. He sold his private equity group recently and did incredibly well.

Marc Borrelli: [00:39:28] So, I think, yes. I think there’s definitely help there, and people have had great things. There are other people in my group who’d tell you they’ve got more out of this, and it’s saved them more, and helped them more than they can ever imagined.

Michael Blake: [00:39:39] Well, very good. I think you’ve made a very compelling case for why one would consider joining a group like this. How can people contact you to learn more about this?

Marc Borrelli: [00:39:49] The easiest is to reach out to me, marc@marcborrelli.com, which I know is a lot.

Michael Blake: [00:39:55] Two Rs, two Ls.

Marc Borrelli: [00:39:56] Correct.

Michael Blake: [00:39:57] I have to remind myself of that.

Marc Borrelli: [00:39:58] Yeah, or you just go to marcborrelli.com. And there’s information on how to set up a meeting with me. I’d love to meet anybody. If you don’t feel it’s not a fit after we’ve talked, that is perfectly okay. I only want people who are willing to come in and work hard.

Michael Blake: [00:40:14] Okay. Well, very good, Marc. Thanks for joining us. That’s going to wrap it up for today’s program. I’d like to thank Marc Borrelli so much for joining us and sharing his experience with us.

Michael Blake: [00:40:23] We’ll be exploring a new topic each week. So, please tune in, so that when you’re faced with your next business decision, you have clear vision when making it. If you enjoy this podcast, please consider leaving a review with your favorite podcast aggregator. It helps people find us, so that we can help them. Once again this is Mike Blake. Our sponsor is Brady Ware & Company. And this has been the Decision Vision Podcast.

To Your Health With Dr. Jim Morrow: Episode 8, Sleep Apnea, and Two Special Guests from Taylor Road Middle School

May 8, 2019 by John Ray

North Fulton Studio

To Your Health With Dr. Jim Morrow: Episode 8, Sleep Apnea, and Two Special Guests from Taylor Road Middle School

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**Dr. Jim Morrow, Morrow Family Medicine, and Host of “To Your Health With Dr. Jim Morrow”**

Episode 8, Sleep Apnea, and Two Special Guests from Taylor Road Middle School

Sleep apnea affects not only a partner who can’t sleep for the snoring, but it reduces quality of life for the person affected by this condition. So why does sleep apnea occur, and what are the best treatment options? On this episode of “To Your Heath,” Dr. Jim Morrow addresses these questions and more, and talks about his own experience with sleep apnea.

Also in this episode, Dr. Morrow welcomes two 8th grade students from Taylor Road Middle School in Johns Creek, Cion Kim and Ananya Shaeker. To complete a project assignment for their language arts class, Cion and Ananya used a previous episode of “To Your Health” to explore the dangers of vaping for their peers. Impressed by their work, Dr. Morrow was delighted to welcome Cion and Ananya to the show!

Dr. Morrow’s Show Notes on Sleep Apnea

Sleep Apnea

There are two kinds of sleep apnea: obstructive apnea and central apnea.
Obstructive sleep apnea is the most common type.
- Nine out of 10 people who have sleep apnea have this type of apnea.
- something is blocking the airway that brings air into your body (also called the trachea).
- When you try to breathe, you can’t get enough air because of the blockage. Your airway might be blocked by your tongue, tonsils, or uvula (the little piece of flesh that hangs down in the back of your throat).
- It might also be blocked by a large amount of fatty tissue in the throat or by relaxed throat muscles.
Central sleep apnea is less common. This type of sleep apnea is related to the function of the central nervous system. If you have this type of apnea, the muscles you use to breathe don’t get the “go-ahead” signal from your brain. Either the brain doesn’t send the signal, or the signal gets interrupted.

Obstructive Sleep Apnea

Obstructive sleep apnea is a common disorder that causes patients to temporarily stop or decrease their breathing repeatedly during sleep.
People who have sleep apnea stop breathing for 10 to 30 seconds at a time while they are sleeping.
- These short stops in breathing can happen up to 400 times every night.
- If you have sleep apnea, periods of not breathing can disturb your sleep (even if they don’t fully wake you up).
This results in fragmented, non-restful sleep that can lead to symptoms such as morning headache and daytime sleepiness.
Obstructive sleep apnea affects persons of all ages, especially:
- Men,
- people who are overweight, and
- people who are older than 40 years of age are more likely to have sleep apnea.
However, it can affect anyone at any age.
There are many health conditions associated with obstructive sleep apnea, including
- hypertension,
- coronary artery disease,
- cardiac arrhythmias, and
- depression
Predictive clinical features are:
- Loud snoring,
- gasping during sleep,
- obesity, and
- enlarged neck circumference.

Screening questionnaires can be used to assess for sleep apnea, although their accuracy is limited.
The diagnostic standard for obstructive sleep apnea is nocturnal polysomnography in a sleep laboratory (a sleep study).
- Home sleep apnea tests are available and in recent years have become more reliable.
- Home portable monitoring can be used as a substitute for in-laboratory polysomnography for the diagnosis of OSA in patients with a high likelihood of SA.
- Most patients prefer home monitoring, and clinical outcomes among patients diagnosed by either method are comparable regarding sleepiness, sleep-related quality of life, and compliance with continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) therapy

What is the Result of Untreated Obstructive Sleep Apnea?

Relation to Hypertension

About one half of patients who have essential hypertension have obstructive sleep apnea, and
About one half of patients who have obstructive sleep apnea have essential hypertension.
A growing body of evidence suggests that obstructive sleep apnea is a major contributing factor in the development of essential hypertension.

Excessive Daytime Sleepiness

Excessive daytime sleepiness is one of the most common sleep-related patient symptoms
- affects an estimated 20 percent of the population. Persons with excessive daytime sleepiness are at risk of motor vehicle and work-related incidents, and have poorer health than comparable adults.
- The most common causes of excessive daytime sleepiness are sleep deprivation, obstructive sleep apnea, and sedating medications.
- Other potential causes of excessive daytime sleepiness include certain medical and psychiatric conditions and sleep disorders, such as narcolepsy.
- Obstructive sleep apnea is a particularly significant cause of excessive daytime sleepiness.
  - An estimated 26 to 32 percent of adults are at risk of or have obstructive sleep apnea, and the prevalence is expected to increase.
  - The evaluation and management of excessive daytime sleepiness is based on the identification and treatment of underlying conditions (particularly obstructive sleep apnea), and the appropriate use of activating medications.

Connection to Heart Disease

The connection between sleep apnea and heart disease is evolving very rapidly.
People with cardiovascular problems such as high blood pressure, heart failure, and stroke have a high prevalence of sleep apnea.
Whether sleep apnea actually causes heart disease is still unclear, but we do know that if you have sleep apnea today, the chance that you will develop hypertension in the future increases significantly.
One of the problems in defining the relationship between sleep apnea and heart disease is that people with sleep apnea often have other co-existing diseases as well.
If you treat people with high blood pressure and sleep apnea, or heart failure and sleep apnea, the measures of blood pressure or heart failure are significantly improved. There is good evidence to think there is a cause-and-effect relationship between hypertension and sleep apnea.
Why does your blood pressure go up when your sleep is disrupted by sleep apnea?
- Your blood pressure will go up because when you’re not breathing, the oxygen level in your body falls and excites receptors that alert the brain. In response, the brain sends signals through the nervous system and essentially tells the blood vessels to “tighten up” in order to increase the flow of oxygen to the heart and the brain, because they have priority.
- The problem is that things that go on at night tend to carry over in the daytime, even when the sleep apnea patient is awake. The low oxygen levels at night seem to trigger multiple mechanisms that persist during the daytime, even when the patient is breathing normally.
How can CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) reduce the cardiovascular consequences of sleep apnea?
- The available evidence tells us that when you treat people with sleep apnea using CPAP, their blood pressure is not only lower at night—it’s also lower during the day. That’s a very good thing.
- Moreover, people with atrial fibrillation (a common type of irregular heart beat) with sleep apnea that is appropriately treated have only a 40% chance of coming back for further treatment of their atrial fibrillation.
  - If their sleep apnea is untreated, the chance of a recurrence of atrial fibrillation goes up to 80%. The message to heart patients with sleep apnea is: With treatment of your sleep apnea, your chances of improvement are considerably better.

Can Sleep Apnea Be Prevented or Avoided?

There are things you can do to prevent sleep apnea. The following steps help many people:
- Stop all use of alcohol or sleep medicines. These relax the muscles in the back of your throat, making it harder for you to breathe.
- If you smoke, quit smoking.
- If you are overweight, lose weight.
- Sleep on your side instead of on your back.

About Morrow Family Medicine and Dr. Jim Morrow

Morrow Family Medicine is an award-winning, state-of-the-art family practice with offices in Cumming and Milton, Georgia. The practice combines healthcare information technology with old-fashioned care to provide the type of care that many are in search of today. Two physicians, three physician assistants and two nurse practitioners are supported by a knowledgeable and friendly staff to make your visit to Morrow Family Medicine one that will remind you of the way healthcare should be. At Morrow Family Medicine, we like to say we are “bringing the care back to healthcare!” Morrow Family Medicine has been named the “Best of Forsyth” in Family Medicine in all five years of the award, is a three-time consecutive winner of the “Best of North Atlanta” by readers of Appen Media, and the 2019 winner of “Best of Life” in North Fulton County.

Dr. Jim Morrow is the founder and CEO of Morrow Family Medicine. He has been a trailblazer and evangelist in the area of healthcare information technology, was named Physician IT Leader of the Year by HIMSS, a HIMSS Davies Award Winner, the Cumming-Forsyth Chamber of Commerce Steve Bloom Award Winner as Entrepreneur of the Year and he received a Phoenix Award as Community Leader of the Year from the Metro Atlanta Chamber of Commerce. He is married to Peggie Morrow and together they founded the Forsyth BYOT Benefit, a charity in Forsyth County to support students in need of technology and devices. They have two Goldendoodles, a gaggle of grandchildren and enjoy life on and around Lake Lanier.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MorrowFamMed/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/7788088/admin/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/toyourhealthMD

Laura DaSilva, Big Fish Technology, and Michael Cross, Briskin, Cross & Sanford, LLC

May 8, 2019 by John Ray

North Fulton Business Radio

Laura DaSilva, Big Fish Technology, and Michael Cross, Briskin, Cross & Sanford, LLC

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**John Ray, Laura DaSilva, and Michael Cross**

Laura DaSilva, Big Fish Technology

Laura DaSilva is a Technical Sales Account Manager for Big Fish Technology. Big Fish Technology is a full-service technology support company that delivers high quality, timely technology services and solutions for small and medium sized businesses and organizations. Our clients range from small sole proprietors to capital management firms with international offices.

Big Fish Technology is a hands-on company. They use many of the same processes and technologies they recommend to their clients. Therefore, they know what works and what does not. Here is a partial list of what they can do for you: CIO services; wired and wireless network design, implementation, and management; network security audits and tuning; Windows server and Windows server application design, implementation, and management, including MS Exchange, MS SQL, MS SharePoint, Citrix, and others; SQL application design, implementation, and management; remote and onsite Windows and Apple desktop support; data backup and business continuity services, managed services solutions for Windows servers and desktops; hosted applications such as MS Exchange email, MS Sharepoint, online/offisite backups, and others; phone system services (hosted, VoIP, on-premise); and internal low-voltage network and phone wiring and infrastructure.

For more information on Big Fish Technology, go to their website or call 678-528-7713.

Michael Cross, Briskin, Cross & Sanford, LLC

Michael Cross is an attorney and partner with Briskin, Cross & Sanford, LLC. Michael’s practice focuses on matters involving business law, including general corporate transactions, mergers & acquisitions, partnership and LLC law, and franchise law; employment law, including executive employment agreements, employment manuals, sales, distributor, and independent contractor agreements, and employment litigation; commercial real estate, including commercial lease preparation and negotiation, sales, acquisitions, and construction; and non-profit organizations, including the formation of and application for tax-exempt status for charitable organizations, private foundations, and trade associations.

From negotiating business agreements to aggressive representation in commercial litigation, Briskin, Cross & Sanford provides comprehensive legal service to entrepreneurs, executives, and companies in Alpharetta, Roswell, Johns Creek, Sandy Springs, Cumming, Marietta, and other communities throughout the north Atlanta metropolitan area.

Their chief focus is providing counsel to technology firms and other businesses located in the developing Georgia 400 corridor. Two of their attorneys were founding members of the steering committee for the 400 Technology Connection, which fostered technology and commercial growth in the area prior to partnering with the Technology Association of Georgia (“TAG”).

For more information, go to their website or call (770) 410-1555.